Method please poke some holes in my ctb plan

[Contraband]

i plan on leaving next friday. still waiting for some money to come through to get a few final things i need. i'm not going to talk about what got me here as that's a whole other subject imo.

but assuming i can get everything, this is what i've kind of refined my plan to over the last few weeks after a bit more research.

method is either suffocation or respiratory arrest from opioids, whichever happens first or at all.

i plan on getting those bags that they put fish in to take home at aquariums. they're very thick and heavy duty if i remember correctly. rubberbands, tape, and handcuffs. will get all of of this as secured as possible e.g. putting one handcuff on, partially securing the bag just above the nose with rubber bands in the right spot. then taking what i believe will be a high enough dose to enough knock me out for hours or cause respiratory arrest. then quickly pulling the bag down to the right place, taping over, and then handcuffing myself behind my back.

i have two concerns of failure, a) i will black out before i can finish what i'm doing. in my experience, i will have a few minutes to do them. and much more impressive things have been done in that time so i'm not worried about that. and b) i won't overdose but i will wake up before the suffocation happens.

i have tried to eliminate all variables from this and feel i've done pretty well. i'd like to leave sooner but like i said i have to wait. i've completed almost everything to make things easier on my family.

thanks.

**edit** i would like to emphasize that this is not an attempt to increase odds, just a last attempt to see that this is a terrible idea and will likely fail.

 

[mellie5]

"it is a terrible idea that will likely fail"

no seriously there all kinds of opioids and they are not the same. Some in overdose will block the respiratory drive, which is not respiratory arrest.

Worst case scenario, you half suffocate, you instinctively remove the bag and the key to the one hand you handcuffed (to what?) will have fallen somewhere you can't reach and you will be in a messy situation which will need a lot of explaining :( so more research. I can't give you precise information yk. :(

 

[Contraband]

"it is a terrible idea that will likely fail"

no seriously there all kinds of opioids and they are not the same. Some in overdose will block the respiratory drive, which is not respiratory arrest.

Worst case scenario, you half suffocate, you instinctively remove the bag and the key to the one hand you handcuffed (to what?) will have fallen somewhere you can't reach and you will be in a messy situation which will need a lot of explaining :( so more research. I can't give you precise information yk. :(

i realize this sounds like asking for assistance in improving my plan after posting the original thread but yeah i understand and respect that, hence the edit. the other hand will be handcuffed to my other hand behind the back to stop me removing the bag during unconsciousness. i plan on buying metal handcuffs that are secure but have a quick release thing if necessary. and the opioid is fent, which i'm quite used to the effects of. thanks for responding though.

i don't really fear death or the process, i fear the risks on my body if i fail. but that's a risk i'm willing to take i guess.

 

[Tesha]

i plan on getting those bags that they put fish in to take home at aquariums

Be careful of which bags you get - some are gas permeable and allow oxygen transfer (as they allow the fish to 'breathe' during transportation). Speaking as someone who keeps 'wet pets', so knows you can't always float a bag to equalise the temperature for the fish because they're gas permeable….

 

[sash]

Hi
This might b a silly question, but have you tried to see if you can get your body through your arms to have your hands in front of you?
If u nearly can when calm then u def can when SI kicks in, even if it will cut/shred your wrists or twist knees. Its amazing what the body is capable of in times of survival. If ur physically able or nearly able to do this, then hands behind back will become hands in front ripping off your bag.

 

[Contraband]

Hi
This might b a silly question, but have you tried to see if you can get your body through your arms to have your hands in front of you?
If u nearly can when calm then u def can when SI kicks in, even if it will cut/shred your wrists or twist knees. Its amazing what the body is capable of in times of survival. If ur physically able or nearly able to do this, then hands behind back will become hands in front ripping off your bag.

hey. not silly at all, i definitely could if i tried, i'm pretty lanky. it's a fair point and real possibility so i'll keep what you said in mind.

 

[mellie5]

oh both hands handcuffed, I understand. Tbh I had also thought of that in my CTB ideas but "what a mess it will be if something goes wrong" didn't keep the idea much longer, espc considering how suffocation might be unpleasant and the "what if it doesn't work?" keeps/kept nagging me. I am very practical and if get only some sort of weird brain damage and I have to ring someone up handcuffed with a bag half tied to my head idk.

I can't say much about your plan and idk where you are, and advice is illegal etc. So I would only say "idk" and suggest to have a decent Plan B just in case you change your mind or it doesn't work as expected like idk vomiting in the bag or some other mess.

 

[sash]

hey. not silly at all, i definitely could if i tried, i'm pretty lanky. it's a fair point and real possibility so i'll keep what you said in mind.

Maybe cuff or even tie your ankles with lots of annoying knots to something solid (if cuffs have quick escape) so your arms cant go past them?

 

[wyo777]

You will rip this bag on doorhandle or anywhere else. I got no idea why people r looking for such difficult methods. If You want a painful dead, cause bag idea is painful and full of panic then there is a lot of methods quicker.

 

[Contraband]

oh both hands handcuffed, I understand. Tbh I had also thought of that in my CTB ideas but "what a mess it will be if something goes wrong" didn't keep the idea much longer, espc considering how suffocation might be unpleasant and the "what if it doesn't work?" keeps/kept nagging me. I am very practical and if get only some sort of weird brain damage and I have to ring someone up handcuffed with a bag half tied to my head idk.

I can't say much about your plan and idk where you are, and advice is illegal etc. So I would only say "idk" and suggest to have a decent Plan B just in case you change your mind or it doesn't work as expected like idk vomiting in the bag or some other mess.

it's incredibly frustrating that we don't have access to any 100% reliable methods. considering how many people die accidentally of some of the methods here, firearms and again plastic bag namely, you'd think it would be easier. i guess it's something to do with us being aware of our intentions and the results.

i appreciate the insight, don't worry. plan b is niagara falls.

 

[sash]

Hi sorry me again. U said quick release cuffs, can u release them quite easy, even with hands behind? Cos yr brain will remember this if yr hands cant pass over your anchored ankles & it wants u to survive.

 

[QueerMelancholy]

When I ever imagined using a bag over my head I've imagined putting a pillow case or something made of cotton over it. Something that is breathable but I can't tear through with my hands.

I wonder if anyone has an opinion on this? Do you think if I DID do this it would help or make things worse?

No real holes to pick in your plan sorry. I'm probably being selfish. I'm an ignorant fool.

 

[mellie5]

well, there *are* 100% reliable methods, but like one costs around $10,000 and will be delivered by dignitas.ch in Switzerland. Other ones depend where you live. Or you have a doctor or vet friend willing to break the law and those are imho extremely difficult to find.

I have no idea what your plan B while handcuffed might be, if you meant jumping in the Niagara Falls I meant a plan B in case it doesn't work so you don't find yourself handcuffed with a bag on your head shouting for help or calling 911 with the nose.

 

[Contraband]

well, there *are* 100% reliable methods, but like one costs around $10,000 and will be delivered by dignitas.ch in Switzerland. Other ones depend where you live. Or you have a doctor or vet friend willing to break the law and those are imho extremely difficult to find.

I have no idea what your plan B while handcuffed might be, if you meant jumping in the Niagara Falls I meant a plan B in case it doesn't work so you don't find yourself handcuffed with a bag on your head shouting for help or calling 911 with the nose.

exactly, well out of most people's means sadly.

my bad, i thought you meant if it doesn't work. solid advice, i'm a little overconfident about this and hadn't even really thought of how i'll get out of it if it doesn't work out.

 

[mellie5]

yes. Bcs people are known to change their mind at the last minute and then you are crazily biting the bag or something.

You should also research well the opioids but very well because suffocating is one and having no respiratory drive another. A lack of respiratory -drive- doesn't need a bag at all, because people stop breathing. Even with a lack of oxygen and a lot of CO2 the brain is unable to signal "now breathe".

Falling asleep in a bag hoping for hypoxia is another thing.

Unfortunately I found no simple wikipedia article on the respiratory drive, they are all in journals.

Basically you, yourself, you breathe because of the respiratory drive, the brain signals "time to exchange gas", not because you remember to. You can willingly control breathing up to a point but if you try to hold your breath too much the "primitive" brain, not your evolved cortex will "override" your will and make you breathe.

And this is basically the problem I see with hypoxia falling asleep in a bag. Because sure, some medicine will make you fall asleep, usually by acting on receptors called GABA receptors so fine, you can't move, you are asleep, there is a lack of oxygen, but the "primitive" brain, the one you can't control willingly will react on the lack of oxygen and the rise in carbon dioxide and make you do whatever it takes. It might take away oxygen from the limbs or whatever and make you do

whatever it takes to breathe, including fully waking you up if it can. This is why I thought handcuffs would be unpleasant. Bcs the "primitive brain" musters up all the hormones it can, whatever it takes.

Here they like to call it survival instinct SI, but it's not really. It's the "oldest" most basic part of the brain doing what it has to do. And there's no rational thinking, just trying to get gas exchange.

However, there are overdoses of certain medicine that just suppress the respiratory drive. So this oldest part of the brain won't do anything and let the gases get unbalanced and the heart stops. In fact there was one episode of House, MD, where he himself fell asleep without respiratory drive. In the TV show I think he was taking Oxycontin, but that's a TV show and not a real medical journal.

So on your method: YMMV - I am just telling you about possibilities and read very well the information about the substances carefully.

 

[Contraband]

@mellie5 thank you for posting that. really thought it was a bit more simple than that, but it's eye opening. hopefully the sedating effects of fent will override that, but like you said; the body will do insane things to survive, driven by that part of the brain. i may first try just an overdose. on may 30th i was using the same stuff just recreationally and had two overdoses. but since i wasn't actually attempting, i was saved. i was told i was completely blue and out for at least 20 mins so i expect it would have been lethal if i was alone. but after a couple of days my tolerance went up and while i'd fall asleep for long periods of time, i didn't have any more overdoses. i expect oxys would do it, there are many people that have passed away from them. it's very difficult to get them now though.

 

[Sunset Limited]

It matters how much fentanyl enters the system. Fentanyl is not just a painkiller, it is also an anesthetic. It is used as a single agent in the induction and maintenance of anesthesia in open heart surgeries. 35-50mcg/kg anesthesia induction dose. So if you give 3.5 mg IV fentanyl to a 70 kilogram person, they will be completely unconscious. Fentanyl is highly lipophilic and rapidly crosses the blood-brain barrier. Rapid onset of action.

Of course this is for IV administration. However, much higher amounts of fentanyl can work quickly intranasally. It depends on the purity and dosage of fentanyl. If your opioid receptors are not naïve, the math changes.

As I wrote above, if a person who weighs 70 kg and has naive opiate receptors takes 3.5 mg or more fentanyl IV, this means rapid onset of apnea and deep coma. Euthanasia as the gold standard.

 

[Contraband]

When I ever imagined using a bag over my head I've imagined putting a pillow case or something made of cotton over it. Something that is breathable but I can't tear through with my hands.

I wonder if anyone has an opinion on this? Do you think if I DID do this it would help or make things worse?

No real holes to pick in your plan sorry. I'm probably being selfish. I'm an ignorant fool.

i think this is great idea actually. maybe it would help you relax like when they cover animals eyes and they chill out lol

 

[mellie5]

Hello -

yk I can't give you actual advice so I'll try again to say what is legal. If you have been using opioids recreationally or as part of an addiction you know that with time people start to build tolerance, so more of the same substance is needed to give the same effect.

So say opioids work on an opioid receptor and this receptor signals the neurons "stop firing and go to sleep". At first, the cells will make more receptors and this will mean more substance to cause the similar effect. So you take more substance and the cells make more receptors.

Now, eventually, the cells get fed up and they can't make so many receptors so something happens - reduction in gene expression. *Then* it's a big problem. Because the cells basically consider (for the sake of explanation let's have cells with intelligence) that there is something wrong with those receptors, they shouldn't be all the time reacting and we are making so many of them.

So the cells stop making those receptors bcs they can't keep up with demand and anyway there's something wrong with them. So instead they make very *few* receptors *and* don't react too much to them.

So then it's complicated because the lack of the substance causes withdrawal symptoms *but* the substance is hardly working and people can take literally 10 times the amount of a substance that will work on anyone and yet it will hardly work.

I can't tell you fent dosages and best route of administration but research everything well. A CTB attempt is of great stress to the body and if it doesn't work and the "lizard brain" activates and everything and the bag is torn and you will find yourself handcuffed and drowsy it will be very unlikely that in that situation you will retry.

Search yourself for "respiratory drive". Hypoxia causes this "primitive brain" activation. Substances that don't cause hypoxia won't, because this reaction is to a lack of gas.

The Swiss organisation ( dignitas.ch ) explains exactly how they do it, the substance and how much (and their prices and wait time).

Tbh I don't understand why people can buy illegal vials of one substance but not another, but I suppose for the criminals a repeat market is better than a one-time use. I am too chicken to get some Chinese powder than could be anything (search for "brodifacoum" - a very unpleasant substance with effects that last months).

 

[Contraband]

hey @mellie5, thanks for your time discussing this.

as for the tolerance, fortunately those effects do go away with time. interestingly there's a misconception around fent overdoses. many people believe the overdoses are first time users. but it's usually on relapses. new users know the risks and are a little more calculated and careful with their dosages and paying attention to what state they're in. but long time fent users are so used to these effects and falling asleep they kind of become desensitized to the feeling. match that with taking even 20 or 30 days off and then taking their usual dose when they were in active addiction and they accidentally die.

i spent some time reading about respiratory drive and arrest and there was a lot to take in so i know when i attempt. one thing i found was that opioids, especially when inhaled, reduce this effect when it comes to your body monitoring co2 and reacting accordingly. another bonus i guess. i honestly had no idea how great a part co2 played in gas exchange.

i checked that stuff out, rodenticide. i don't understand why they put shit like this in drugs aside from profits.

 

[mellie5]

Hello -

good that you read about the respiratory drive, you might come to the conclusion that substances that suppress the respiratory drive don't actually need a bag and handcuffs, so eventually waking up a few hours after, "normally", won't need you jumping about in handcuffs trying to go to the bathroom.

So, they put brodifacoum and other stuff in illegal drugs bcs it increases the high. So people will think "this works better" or the producers will need to use less substance to sell it. Unfortunately with non-pharma substances it's like this. So me, getting a powder from some shadow market - no thanks.

Except ofc with chemicals like the famous SN and other poisons which are bought from chemical shops and have a guaranteed grade of purity. But they are mostly, if not always, unpleasant.

Speaking of fentanyl - just fyi there is carfentanyl (and rumours that it's sometimes mixed with fentanyl in street drugs causing overdoses) which is much stronger. I think it's used to sedate large animals. It is fact so dangerous that the box comes with the antidote and one is not allowed to open it alone, because just a tiny jab in the finger is too much for humans, so there must be someone together just in case. But I doubt there are ways to get it for a non-vet so this is just a piece of info.

I had completely forgotten that opioids can be inhaled :-D but ofc they can, they had opium dens 150 years ago.

 

[phersper]

Hello -

good that you read about the respiratory drive, you might come to the conclusion that substances that suppress the respiratory drive don't actually need a bag and handcuffs, so eventually waking up a few hours after, "normally", won't need you jumping about in handcuffs trying to go to the bathroom.

So, they put brodifacoum and other stuff in illegal drugs bcs it increases the high. So people will think "this works better" or the producers will need to use less substance to sell it. Unfortunately with non-pharma substances it's like this. So me, getting a powder from some shadow market - no thanks.

Except ofc with chemicals like the famous SN and other poisons which are bought from chemical shops and have a guaranteed grade of purity. But they are mostly, if not always, unpleasant.

Speaking of fentanyl - just fyi there is carfentanyl (and rumours that it's sometimes mixed with fentanyl in street drugs causing overdoses) which is much stronger. I think it's used to sedate large animals. It is fact so dangerous that the box comes with the antidote and one is not allowed to open it alone, because just a tiny jab in the finger is too much for humans, so there must be someone together just in case. But I doubt there are ways to get it for a non-vet so this is just a piece of info.

I had completely forgotten that opioids can be inhaled :-D but ofc they can, they had opium dens 150 years ago.

May I ask you what do you mean with "substances that suppress the respiratory drive don't actually need a bag and handcuffs"?

Let's say I take a hella lot of Fent, Oxy and other SNC/breathing depressors like benzos and propranolol. Wouldn't putting a large bag on the head (enough to breath in peacefully before blacking out) make even more sure that death will be reached? In the sense that, if the opioids somehow fail to slow the respiration (which shouldn't happen if doses, ROA and type of molecules are wisely chosen), the bag will take care of the rest, thus making sure that no oxygen will reach the brain while the body is in a state of deep anesthesia?

 

[Placo]

"it is a terrible idea that will likely fail"

no seriously there all kinds of opioids and they are not the same. Some in overdose will block the respiratory drive, which is not respiratory arrest.

Worst case scenario, you half suffocate, you instinctively remove the bag and the key to the one hand you handcuffed (to what?) will have fallen somewhere you can't reach and you will be in a messy situation which will need a lot of explaining :( so more research. I can't give you precise information yk. :(

It happened to me that the method failed and I managed to free myself by taking the keys that I had placed on the table, all handcuffed behind my back and with the bag on my head that prevented me from seeing, it took me a while and the marks from the handcuffs showed they are taking a while to go away but it was an incredible thing, it saved me from a potentially difficult situation if I had to ask for help.

As for the quick release handcuffs, I don't know how they are made, could you post some photos? @Contraband

However, I also agree with the fact that if it is easy to free yourself, SI could be dangerous, at most put the keys in an easily accessible place so if things go wrong maybe you can free yourself like I did.

 

[Contraband]

It happened to me that the method failed and I managed to free myself by taking the keys that I had placed on the table, all handcuffed behind my back and with the bag on my head that prevented me from seeing, it took me a while and the marks from the handcuffs showed they are taking a while to go away but it was an incredible thing, it saved me from a potentially difficult situation if I had to ask for help.

As for the quick release handcuffs, I don't know how they are made, could you post some photos? @Contraband

However, I also agree with the fact that if it is easy to free yourself, SI could be dangerous, at most put the keys in an easily accessible place so if things go wrong maybe you can free yourself like I did.

hey placo. would you be willing to elaborate on your experience at all? did you take anything before you put the bag on?

the quick release handcuffs usually have a little button to unlock it. easy enough in an emergency but small enough that you wouldn't accidentally press it.

but yes, i'll make sure i have an option to free myself if necessary

 

[Placo]

hey placo. would you be willing to elaborate on your experience at all? did you take anything before you put the bag on?

the quick release handcuffs usually have a little button to unlock it. easy enough in an emergency but small enough that you wouldn't accidentally press it.

but yes, i'll make sure i have an option to free myself if necessary

Here I describe in detail what happened: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/handcuffs-and-plastic-bag.152861/post-2543283

I don't remember now which tranquilizers I took and I think I didn't write it in the post but I imagine I went on benzos.