On Before Life and After Death

[Dmoore3232]

On Life

Almost all of the Near Death Experience data says we were alive before this life.

A lady who died I think and experienced an NDE says she was in a grocery store picking out values that she wanted to learn like determination and putting it in a cart. So it sounds like a videogame. And people say you pick your life. This was on "The Other Side NDE" youtube channel.

People also say a lot of people don't like coming to this planet because of the gravity, it is heavy.

And when you die you can float and move around. Then often a light emerges and you go towards it.

A lot of people in physics say we don't have free will. The particles go to where they are going to go and you can calculate where all the particles are going to go if you have the initial conditions even at the Big Bang or just after it.

In near death experiences they say you will have a hard life, the people they talk to, so they already know future events.

So we might just be experiencing what it is like to be in this body and the thoughts the body has.

So we're maybe not really human, a human is one avatar that we have.

Other civilizations in space probably already got to the finish line and can time travel and maybe even do universe engineering and stuff like that.

I am 99% sure a Heaven exists.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think that those theories are fictional concepts created by humans unable to accept the fact that we came from nothing and are destined to return to the absence of everything. Existence was a horrific mistake, a tragic unnecessary disturbance in what would otherwise be the most ideal state of non-existence, and once we die there is just nothingness for all eternity.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Interesting! Yes indeed we don't know why and how it works that we are able to think/make decisions/experience sth/ questioning sth and so on. We don't know how it works that a cluster of atoms can do all the things we are doing and ofc other life forms. That's why I think after death "the soul / the energy of life" or whatever this may be called will leave the body and be reunited with the cosmic web as pure energy and that's it.

 

[Dmoore3232]

I just think that those theories are fictional concepts created by humans unable to accept the fact that we came from nothing and are destined to return to the absence of everything. Existence was a horrific mistake, a tragic unnecessary disturbance in what would otherwise be the most ideal state of non-existence, and once we die there is just nothingness for all eternity.

A famous NDE case is Michaela Chatterjee, and while dead and her soul lifted off she saw her two grandmothers who would never smoke smoking cigarettes. Then when we awoke I think she asked her mom about it and she said yes that they were smoking.

Tricia Barker is another famous NDE case and she died, had no pulse, and her soul lifted off and she went out to the hallway in the hospital and saw her stepdad buying a Snickers bar out of the vending machine and when she was brought back to life she said, "Did you buy a Snickers bar?" He said, "yeah".

A patient of Dr. Lloyd Rudy who was dead was able to describe what was going on in the operating room while he was dead.

Interesting! Yes indeed we don't know why and how it works that we are able to think/make decisions/experience sth/ questioning sth and so on. We don't know how it works that a cluster of atoms can do all the things we are doing and ofc other life forms. That's why I think after death "the soul / the energy of life" or whatever this may be called will leave the body and be reunited with the cosmic web as pure energy and that's it.

It could be a simulation, so we could be in a computer system. Because I have heard of an NDE where a lady is in Heaven with her friends designing her life on a computer screen. An argument for this is if advanced civilizations exist and create simulations the probability that this is base reality is like 1 in a million, 1 over however many simulations exist. And in Heaven in NDE stories, you have no biology, they are just made up of physics. People say their are beings of like light, so they evolved past biology.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Why are NDE's different to dreams though? I mean- they happen while the brain is still alive. I don't think you can be resuscitated after brain death. So- why couldn't those people have just been dreaming/ having a nightmare? Our brains release some pretty crazy chemicals/ hormones at the end I believe- so it would make a kind of sense to 'see' wild stuff. Plus- everyone's expecting a tunnel with light at the end- why shouldn't we just be imagining what we expect to see?

Still- who knows? You could well be right. This world is full of stuff we don't understand. Personally- I hope I'm not recycled but I guess we'll have no choice.

 

[Dmoore3232]

Why are NDE's different to dreams though? I mean- they happen while the brain is still alive. I don't think you can be resuscitated after brain death. So- why couldn't those people have just been dreaming/ having a nightmare? Our brains release some pretty crazy chemicals/ hormones at the end I believe- so it would make a kind of sense to 'see' wild stuff. Plus- everyone's expecting a tunnel with light at the end- why shouldn't we just be imagining what we expect to see?

Still- who knows? You could well be right. This world is full of stuff we don't understand. Personally- I hope I'm not recycled but I guess we'll have no choice.

Yes it is a chemical similar to LSD I think. Well there is NDE data like from the 3 people I talked about where they are floating around and seeing stuff and then when revived they question people about it and they say yes that did happen where there was no way they could see it.

Then with the NDE's there are so many common themes, being able to move around like a ghost, the bright light, the saying , "You have to go back it is not your time yet", "Do you want to go or stay", no mouth moving in communication as in telepathic, seeing future events and being told future events. All people say it is more real than this life.

 

[GasMonkey]

I like both outcomes. If there is an Afterlife is a new adventure without being trapped in this shit body, if there is no Afterlife I also won't be trapped in this shit body. I stop suffering with both options.​

 

[Dmoore3232]

I like both outcomes. If there is an Afterlife is a new adventure without being trapped in this shit body, if there is no Afterlife I also won't be trapped in this shit body. I stop suffering with both options.​

And when people die and their soul moves around they all say you look at your biological body like a dirty pair of clothes that you just throw away and don't even care about anymore.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes it is a chemical similar to LSD I think. Well there is NDE data like from the 3 people I talked about where they are floating around and seeing stuff and then when revived they question people about it and they say yes that did happen where there was no way they could see it.

Then with the NDE's there are so many common themes, being able to move around like a ghost, the bright light, the saying , "You have to go back it is not your time yet", "Do you want to go or stay", no mouth moving in communication as in telepathic, seeing future events and being told future events. All people say it is more real than this life.

It is really interesting. Plus- I don't have any answers. Even dreams fascinate me- why do so many people have dreams in which we can fly? Humans can't fly- why would that be so common?

Still- in terms of it being like nothing they'd ever experienced- perhaps that was because of the LSD- like chemical whizzing about their brains! I agree though- it is weird.

The out of body experience is weird- but then- so are flying dreams! Sometimes I think my dreams try and work around things in real life- like a noise, or that I've moved. Like- my brain will work out a story for that to make sense to me. I wonder if floating sensations in NDE's are similar to that- similar to the reason behind flying or falling dreams. Something weird is maybe going on with the bodies sense of balance and the brain gives them a flying dream/ out of body experience to try and 'explain' or rationalise it.

Personally- I'd find NDE's a lot more compelling if we didn't dream and if our dreams weren't so vivid and obscure but I guess a part of me just hopes it's an extension of that.

 

[Dmoore3232]

It is really interesting. Plus- I don't have any answers. Even dreams fascinate me- why do so many people have dreams in which we can fly? Humans can't fly- why would that be so common?

Still- in terms of it being like nothing they'd ever experienced- perhaps that was because of the LSD- like chemical whizzing about their brains! I agree though- it is weird.

The out of body experience is weird- but then- so are flying dreams! Sometimes I think my dreams try and work around things in real life- like a noise, or that I've moved. Like- my brain will work out a story for that to make sense to me. I wonder if floating sensations in NDE's are similar to that- similar to the reason behind flying or falling dreams. Something weird is maybe going on with the bodies sense of balance and the brain gives them a flying dream/ out of body experience to try and 'explain' or rationalise it.

Personally- I'd find NDE's a lot more compelling if we didn't dream and if our dreams weren't so vivid and obscure but I guess a part of me just hopes it's an extension of that.

2 people I worked with, a lady I work with said her aunt came to her in a dream the night she died and told her she was dead and alright. And I think a guy that I used to work with said when his brother died when younger he came to him in a dream as well. Dead people appearing in dreams of other people right when they die does seem to happen.

I don't know much about the science of dreams.

 

[Pluto]

Why are NDE's different to dreams though?

How is the waking state different to a dream? This question gets routinely explored in Vedantic philosophy and breaks down the assumption that the physical world is exclusively real.

 

[Forever Sleep]

How is the waking state different to a dream? This question gets routinely explored in Vedantic philosophy and breaks down the assumption that the physical world is exclusively real.

Ha ha- good point! Maybe because I CAN fly and run without getting breathless, sing (exactly like Michael Jackson), speak languages I've never heard before- and apparently survive death in my 'dreams'. The other night, I got shot in the head. I'm utterly amazing in dreams!! So far- I haven't managed to do any of that stuff in my waking life...

 

[Pluto]

I think the Vedantic response to that would be, "You experienced one thing in a dream and are experiencing another thing now in the waking state. How does that prove one state is real and the other not?"

Another example: People say the waking state is vivid. Yet one person may experience an ailment like derealisation which make the waking state feel unreal, while another may have a very vivid dream. So again, the argument doesn't hold.

It's not just pointless intellectualism. It opens us to the possibility that there are major insights that we are not currently aware of.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the Vedantic response to that would be, "You experienced one thing in a dream and are experiencing another thing now in the waking state. How does that prove one state is real and the other not?"

Another example: People say the waking state is vivid. Yet one person may experience an ailment like derealisation which make the waking state feel unreal, while another may have a very vivid dream. So again, the argument doesn't hold.

It's not just pointless intellectualism. It opens us to the possibility that there are major insights that we are not currently aware of.

In terms of perception and experience- which I agree- is what we hold to be maybe the most precious 'bit' of 'us'- I agree- why value one over the other? Why would they not be connected though? Are 'we' symbionts?

Put it this way- I'm going to give up drinking, eating and working during my waking life. I'm just gonna watch Netflix and play games all day. I'll leave all that other stuff for when I'm asleep. How long do you reckon I'll survive? Oh- and I had sex with Brad Pitt last night (in a dream of course) - should I get a pregnancy test- just to be on the safe side?!!

I'm not saying that our thoughts aren't important. I suppose we may eventually find out that they are MORE important than our waking physical lives. In which case- awesome! I'm a superhero in my dreams! I just guess that THIS life ISN'T geared up to reward us for what we achieve in our dreams. I truly am an athlete in my dreams yet I wake up the same fat slob... Unless there's some other incredibly fit and agile avatar of me some place else of course. But- why would I be tethered to this meat sack here? What would my superhero avatar self REALLY gain by inhabiting my decomposing body for more than half the time?

I mean- you could be right. I just don't see the reason behind any of it. But then- my brain could be too small for all that. I just hope we're given the choice- but- seeing as we're already here- I'm guessing we don't get the choice.

 

[Pluto]

The reason dreams are of interest in spirituality is that they prove in our own direct experience that we can find ourselves as a central character in a realm that appears absolutely real at the time, then awaken out of it and realise that absolutely none of it was real. Similarly, NDEs (along with spiritually transformative experiences, advanced psychedelic experiences, etc.) are nothing more than people coming out of this reality and finding that what they took to be real actually wasn't.

And yet, there is an ineffable thing in the background called consciousness that is present in all experiences by all people. No belief system can deny the existence of consciousness because it is self-validating.

The same sense of 'I' was there when we were young children, viewing the world as a place of joy and wonderment. The same consciousness is now witnessing an experience of ill-health and bitter cynicism. What will it be experiencing in another 100 years when these bodies are long gone? Or in tonight's dream? "Something or other" is the answer. It is completely unaffected by what comes and goes, yet all experience in all realms - dream, waking-state or 'afterlife' - is dependent upon it.

Hence, any authentic spiritual endeavour is about questioning our true nature beyond the character we currently take ourselves to be.

 

[enough of this]

On Life

Almost all of the Near Death Experience data says we were alive before this life.

A lady who died I think and experienced an NDE says she was in a grocery store picking out values that she wanted to learn like determination and putting it in a cart. So it sounds like a videogame. And people say you pick your life. This was on "The Other Side NDE" youtube channel.

People also say a lot of people don't like coming to this planet because of the gravity, it is heavy.

And when you die you can float and move around. Then often a light emerges and you go through it.

A lot of people in physics say we don't have free will. The particles go to where they are going to go and you can calculate where all the particles are going to go if you have the initial conditions even at the Big Bang.

In near death experiences they say you will have a hard life, the people they talk to, so they already know future events.

So we might just be experiencing what it is like to be in this body and the thoughts the body has.

So we're maybe not really human, a human is one avatar that we have.

Other civilizations in space probably already got to the finish line and can time travel and maybe even do universe engineering and stuff like that.

I am 99% sure a Heaven exists.

From all the research I've done on the near-death experience, everything you've mentioned is true.
It's consoling to me that when we transition out of these avatars we're temporarily using, we enter into a state of consciousness of such magnitude, it makes it seem that we were never conscious in our bodies. It's like waking up from a dream (or nightmare) into our true reality. I am so looking forward to that day.

 

[Dmoore3232]

From all the research I've done on the near-death experience, everything you've mentioned is true.
It's consoling to me that when we transition out of these avatars we're temporarily using, we enter into a state of consciousness of such magnitude, it makes it seem that we were never conscious in our bodies. It's like waking up from a dream (or nightmare) into our true reality. I am so looking forward to that day.

Same, that is the base reality as in home I guess if the theory is correct.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I don't buy any of it. I believe that when you're dead, you're dead, and you cease to exist. I believe that we were nothing before we came into existence and will return to a state of nothingness after we die. We're nothing but a piece of the constant cycle of coming into existence and ceasing to exist - ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Our consciousness only develops through environment and interaction with other people.

Imagine if you were an infant left on a remote island all by yourself and somehow happened to be able to survive and grown into adulthood. You wouldn't be able to speak. You'd know nothing about the world outside of the island you inhabit. You'd have no concept of a "god". You wouldn't know what to call anything on the island, or even the ocean surrounding the island, or the fish you might eat for sustenance. You'd have absolutely no concept of anything outside of your surroundings. You wouldn't even know what you are. You wouldn't even have coherent thoughts, as you wouldn't have a concept of any language, except that which you create in your own mind. A tree might be called a sound you make like "ahhhhh". You'd be able to visualize a tree with coconuts on it after seeing it, but the name for it would not exist. Everything would be of a pictorial nature in your mind. Everything we know, with the exception of the basics, like seeking food and water, is learned behavior from others and built upon by experiences.

 

[Dmoore3232]

I don't buy any of it. I believe that when you're dead, you're dead, and you cease to exist. I believe that we were nothing before we came into existence and will return to a state of nothingness after we die. We're nothing but a piece of the constant cycle of coming into existence and ceasing to exist - ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Our consciousness only develops through environment and interaction with other people.

Imagine if you were an infant left on a remote island all by yourself and somehow happened to be able to survive and grown into adulthood. You wouldn't be able to speak. You'd know nothing about the world outside of the island you inhabit. You'd have no concept of a "god". You wouldn't know what to call anything on the island, or even the ocean surrounding the island, or the fish you might eat for sustenance. You'd have absolutely no concept of anything outside of your surroundings. You wouldn't even know what you are. You wouldn't even have coherent thoughts, as you wouldn't have a concept of any language, except that which you create in your own mind. A tree might be called a sound you make like "ahhhhh". You'd be able to visualize a tree with coconuts on it after seeing it, but the name for it would not exist. Everything would be of a pictorial nature in your mind. Everything we know, with the exception of the basics, like seeking food and water, is learned behavior from others and built upon by experiences.

My guess is advanced civilizations already got to the finish line as in they can control all of existence.

 

[mensablonde1955]

I like both outcomes. If there is an Afterlife is a new adventure without being trapped in this shit body, if there is no Afterlife I also won't be trapped in this shit body. I stop suffering with both options.​

I feel exactly the same way. At least if I'm dead I'm not having to face this overwhelming anguish anymore. As you said, there may be a Heaven where things will be much better, or if there's not, at least I'm out of this life. It's a win-win situation. Thanks for posting that comment because I realized you were right!

 

[CursedReality88]

Why are NDE's different to dreams though? I mean- they happen while the brain is still alive. I don't think you can be resuscitated after brain death. So- why couldn't those people have just been dreaming/ having a nightmare? Our brains release some pretty crazy chemicals/ hormones at the end I believe- so it would make a kind of sense to 'see' wild stuff. Plus- everyone's expecting a tunnel with light at the end- why shouldn't we just be imagining what we expect to see?

Still- who knows? You could well be right. This world is full of stuff we don't understand. Personally- I hope I'm not recycled but I guess we'll have no choice.

I don't know about you, but my dreams are almost always weird and doesn't fully make sense. NDE reports between other people are largely consistent. I mean if it's just dreams, why do people always see tunnels, lights and have obe when they are near death? How many dreams do you recall where you tell yourself "oh I'm dead"? Most people who had NDEs are also able to recall the experience vividly and they explain how it felt more real than real life. We all know how dreaming feels. The more compelling part is how blind people since birth are able to fully see in NDEs.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't know about you, but my dreams are almost always weird and doesn't fully make sense. NDE reports between other people are largely consistent. I mean if it's just dreams, why do people always see tunnels, lights and have obe when they are near death? How many dreams do you recall where you tell yourself "oh I'm dead"? Most people who had NDEs are also able to recall the experience vividly and they explain how it felt more real than real life. We all know how dreaming feels. The more compelling part is how blind people since birth are able to fully see in NDEs.

Yeah- definitely- my dreams are crazy. I don't have the answers, just suspicions really. I do find it unusual that people report similar visions- but then- seeing as the experience IS so commonly known/ described, maybe they see what they are expecting to see- if that makes sense? I'm not sure that ALL people report NDE's. Why would some people experience them and some not? According to the National Institute of Health, only 17% of people who nearly die report them... Why so few?

I'm not saying they DON'T experience something. I'm certain that they do in fact- it's just whether it's connected to anything we would understand as 'reality'. From a personal perspective- I am selfishly trying to reassure myself! I personally don't want an afterlife- especially a horrible one! It makes me feel reasured if these NDE's are just dreams/ visions that die when the body does.

While we're talking about NDE similarities though- the same could be said for regular dreams- Why do so many people have dreams about flying? I mean- maybe there is some connection to some kind of unniversal consciousness. Maybe that's what NDE's are about too. Who knows? As long as I don't have to consciously know about it! That reassures me.

All sorts go on in my dreams. Most of mine are anxious but- even horrible dreams trouble me less than conscious, waking life. I've 'died' lots in dreams though. Most recently, I was shot in the head. That's the weird thing though- quite often in my dreams- I do suddenly realise that I'm dreaming. It's not exactly lucid dreaming- I can't control what I dream but it is weird. In this case- it was disappointment. I sat down, stared up at the brilliant blue sky and waited to die. I was surprised I wasn't feeling any pain. But then- the horrible realisation hit in that this was only a dream.

As to it feeling different to anything they'd ever experienced. That doesn't seem surprising at all. I expect the brain releases hormones and chemicals at the end that creates this. Studies have been done comparing experiences of people taking psychedellic drugs and these have ALSO shown similarities... Interestingly- also similarities to NDE's:

Turns out near-death experiences are psychedelic, not religious

New research suggests that seemingly otherworldly sensations linked to near-death experiences may actually be rooted in brain activity associated with psychedelics

www.wired.co.uk

I think it's obvious that- whatever is going on- it's going on in the brain. I guess it has to be up to the individual as to whether they then want to connect that to religion or sprituality or some sign of life after death. I believe some tribes would take psychodellics as part of their rituals. Maybe to feel that hyper sense of reality or clarity.

Blind people from birth do (apparently) occasionally dream with visions also. (Basic Google search...) It's interesting that a comparison of their visual dreams ALSO reveals similarities.

Ok- it's interesting that NDE's are similar- for sure. It's also interesting our dreams are similar too don't you think? I'm not a complete sceptic. There's so much we don't understand in this world. I guess in some ways, it would make more sense if there was some common source that all these similarities were coming from. A bit how Eckhart Tolle describes it- that we are all a 'conduit for consciousness'. Personally though- I guess I just want to be rid of the everyday part of thinking and experience. I don't for the most part enjoy being consciously aware of my existence. I suppose during all the talk of NDE's- I'm either trying to reassure myself that either it's a temporary hallucination- or, it's so different to the waking consciousness we are currently plagued with- that it will be ok.

 

[CursedReality88]

only 17% of people who nearly die report them... Why so few?

No one truly knows. From my guess, I'd say that maybe some of them weren't close enough to death to actually witness it. Some people claim they experience the void, after floating around for a good while they then see the light and everything else. I suspect most people are not "dead* long enough to get past the void. Or they could've had some vision but was forced to forget just like how when we were born we don't recall anything before.

As to it feeling different to anything they'd ever experienced. That doesn't seem surprising at all. I expect the brain releases hormones and chemicals at the end that creates this. Studies have been done comparing experiences of people taking psychedellic drugs and these have ALSO shown similarities... Interestingly- also similarities to NDE's:

Turns out near-death experiences are psychedelic, not religious

New research suggests that seemingly otherworldly sensations linked to near-death experiences may actually be rooted in brain activity associated with psychedelics

www.wired.co.uk

From what I read, humans only have a minuscule amount of DMT in the brain. These research and studies are done in rats and even with rats, the amount of DMT is actually very little. On top of that, if you read up on DMT trips, they are usually very colorful and filled with geometric shapes. It is also common to see gnome/giant mantis like creatures. People who trip on psychedelics know they are tripping, while NDEs are nothing like a trip.

Blind people from birth do (apparently) occasionally dream with visions also. (Basic Google search...) It's interesting that a comparison of their visual dreams ALSO reveals similarities.

I haven't done much research on blind people and dreams but here's one real scenario.

She is blind since birth, and cannot even see black. It's very interesting. I'm sure there are more but I haven't looked for it.

I guess for me there has to be either an afterlife, reincarnation or both. The thing that gives me comfort is that everyone dies and no one can avoid that, so whatever happens after death can't be that bad right?...haha...

 

[Forever Sleep]

No one truly knows. From my guess, I'd say that maybe some of them weren't close enough to death to actually witness it. Some people claim they experience the void, after floating around for a good while they then see the light and everything else. I suspect most people are not "dead* long enough to get past the void. Or they could've had some vision but was forced to forget just like how when we were born we don't recall anything before.

From what I read, humans only have a minuscule amount of DMT in the brain. These research and studies are done in rats and even with rats, the amount of DMT is actually very little. On top of that, if you read up on DMT trips, they are usually very colorful and filled with geometric shapes. It is also common to see gnome/giant mantis like creatures. People who trip on psychedelics know they are tripping, while NDEs are nothing like a trip.

I haven't done much research on blind people and dreams but here's one real scenario.

She is blind since birth, and cannot even see black. It's very interesting. I'm sure there are more but I haven't looked for it.

I guess for me there has to be either an afterlife, reincarnation or both. The thing that gives me comfort is that everyone dies and no one can avoid that, so whatever happens after death can't be that bad right?...haha...

Yeah- true! It's coming for all of us- whether we want it or not. No choice in the matter. I suppose we all have our own hopes and fears. I can't deny it's fascinating.

Jesus- giant gnomes or mantis?!! I'm DEFINITELY not trying psychedelics!