onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Case 4 (female)
The member exhaled before placing the mask in the working position and
after 30 s she appeared conscious. At 33 s she nodded 'yes' to an
attendant's query whether she was breathing. Immediately afterwards
the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that
consciousness was lost 55 s after the mask was put in place. At 1:11
her eyeballs rolled and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors
continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared relaxed. At 2:09 the
breathing rate quickened for approximately 6 s. At 3:03 there was a
slow extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the
member's sides at 3:26.

At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then
accelerating again. From 5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning.
During this same period the eyelids were open and the eyeballs were
moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 and 38:16,
intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing and
moaning continued. During this period a number of movements occurred:
at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the shoulders shrugged and
left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06
both arms contracted for 10 s after which the member appeared quite
inert.

At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The
time elapsed for this is not known. The duration of the second tape is
26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep gasp and the head
tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and
withdrew. This tongue movement continued at 15–20 s intervals until
3:45, after which no further signs of life were apparent. The camera
continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared dead.

The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all
signs of life was approximately 42 minutes. The actual time from start
to finish is not known due to the change of video tape. The changes in
breathing patterns, moaning and longer dying time appeared to concern
and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

Conclusion
The estimated time to unconsciousness ranges from 36 to 55 s, which
varies greatly from 5 to 10 s noted by Clayton and Clayton.11 Precise
determination of unconsciousness onset is not possible, but it
appeared to coincide with blinking eyelids, rolling eyeballs and
increased breathing rate. In general, arm movements were limited to
uncoordinated contractions or extensions at the elbow. Neither
attendants nor members touched the mask once it was placed in the
working position. There were no attempts at self-rescue, which implies
that each member was unconscious.

While the camera was focused on the dying member, the attendants could
occasionally be observed, and they appeared anxious about the process.
One attendant later stated that the sudden change in skin colour
(cyanosis), and wide open eyelids were unexpected, because with sodium
pentobarbital the loss of consciousness is slower and the eyelids tend
to remain closed.

The time to death in cases 1–3 was approximately 5–10 minutes, and in
case 4 it was over 40 minutes. In case 4, it is probable that
sufficient oxygen was leaking into the breathing system to sustain
breathing and heart function.

Although each member followed the same breathing protocol, variances
in breathing patterns and total time to death can be attributed to
health differences, variable rebreathing, inspiratory leaks and
dilution of the inhaled mixture with room air (which would include 21%
oxygen). While health information and flow rate data are unavailable,
the video image reveals variances in the fit of the mask. Gaps noted
between face and mask would have allowed room air to enter into the
breathing environment, thereby extending the time to unconsciousness
and the time to death. Even if the Dignitas attendants were trained to
recognise a poor mask fit, they probably could not make adjustments
without running foul of the law. This is because Swiss law requires
the dying individual to perform the final act, and a third party
intervention to adjust the mask would probably constitute an offence.

We conclude that much of the variability in time to unconsciousness
and death can be attributed to differences in the mask fit. A hood
method could reduce the problems of fit. The fit at the collar must be
loose enough to serve as an exhaust port, but tight enough to ensure
that the flow of gas will maintain inflation of the hood.

Discussion
In these four cases, oxygen deprivation by breathing helium through a
mask proved lethal. Nevertheless, we believe a mask breathing
apparatus is problematical because it is very difficult to achieve and
maintain a gas-tight seal between the face and the mask. Even if the
initial mask fit is gas tight, subsequent involuntary movements of the
head, neck and facial muscles are likely to spoil the fit. In
anaesthesia, it is well known that achieving a continual airtight fit
is technically difficult. Even tiny leaks may substantially allow the
ingress of oxygen into the breathing environment. By enhancing the
video images, gaps are visible around the nose bridge and under the
chin, thus room air could easily prevent an oxygen-free environment.
Gaps of some degree may well have been present in all four cases.

The inspired concentration of air, and therefore oxygen, will be
determined by the relative amounts of added helium and expired gas. To
replace expired air completely, and thus ensure the highest possible
concentration of helium, the flow rate of added gas (helium) has been
determined to be a volume of at least two and a half times the
individual's minute volume. This would be true with either the bag and
mask as used by Dignitas, or with the use of a large hood. This flow
rate would require tubing of an adequate internal diameter to deliver
helium from the tank to the inhalation system.

'Final exit' offers detailed information about using a plastic bag
hood and helium for suicide. For aesthetic reasons, Dignitas chose a
mask instead of a hood. A hood, however, may be easier to manage than
any mask that we know. The elastic collar on a hood provides an
exhaust port.

Sudden exposure to a completely oxygen-deficient environment should
result in loss of consciousness within 5–10 s. Given the visibly poor
mask fit, and that the estimated time to unconsciousness ranged
between 36 and 55 s, it is probable that the breathing environment was
not completely oxygen deficient. In two case reports of sudden
exposure to a helium environment inside a hood, Ogden reported loss of
consciousness within 10–12 s.

Assistance with suicide is not necessarily a medical procedure and
these cases of oxygen deprivation show that the prescribing role of
physicians and the use of drugs can be bypassed. Ziegler recently
noted that the Swiss model of assisted suicide has significant
potential to inform the debate over the right to die, and that it
'could also help demedicalize the way that we die'. The transparency
of the Swiss model and the boldness of organisations such as Dignitas
provide unique opportunities to shed light upon otherwise hidden
behaviours. Switzerland is probably unique in that its right-to-die
organisations can account for nearly 5% of all suicides. Given the
nature of Swiss law and the good faith transparency and accountability
of right-to-die groups in that country, the Swiss model offers unique
opportunities for the observation and measurement of a phenomenon that
cries out for empirical enquiry and understanding.

I think this is a different type of mask. Medical air masks etc are not designed to be airtight whereas a full face diving is. I linked earlier to a case of someone successfully using one with nitrogen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crova
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I think this is a different type of mask. Medical air masks etc are not designed to be airtight whereas a full face diving is. I linked earlier to a case of someone successfully using one with nitrogen.

What do you think about this:
the flow rate of added gas (helium) has been
determined to be a volume of at least two and a half times the
individual's minute volume.

how does it translate to 15lpm?
 
  • Like
Reactions: open skyes
deathoverlife

deathoverlife

life is fleeting.....
Oct 8, 2018
197
When you say it like that it worries me. Because any place that has good quality helium has the other gases. Where are you getting it from?
getting it from a gas dealer..its not the party balloon kit..its a 7 cubic meter tank
 
  • Like
Reactions: open skyes
deathoverlife

deathoverlife

life is fleeting.....
Oct 8, 2018
197
Are you sure about not being able to get argon? It's very commonly used in welding and should be easy to come by. If you can't, helium has been proven to work well as long as it is pure, I just suspect it won't be as comfortable in the final moments because it isn't an anaesthetic.
did lil googling and spoke to a supplier...mam argon is much economic compared to helium. i need to figure on the pressure controller...any suggestions you can give me..i am from india
 
  • Like
Reactions: open skyes
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
  • Like
Reactions: open skyes
deathoverlife

deathoverlife

life is fleeting.....
Oct 8, 2018
197
This will probably work but I don't know what the input is. And I don't know what the output is on the cylinder you are getting. You just need to check if it will fit.
https://www.amazon.in/IJARP-0-25MPa...id=1539155983&sr=1-3&keywords=argon+regulator
I an not sure how how to question on that. These dealers are crude and are generally not come across a women buying such stuff ( India you see). Ehen I called up today for argon gas the guys asked me as what I need it for and I had told him for some experiment. He questioned me further and I just it's for neon tubes ( this one I picked up from thr net) was scared to ask him any more details on it
Enquiring about helium was easier as I said am into party planning and need it for balloons. And I go further could prove him on the pressure controller and he said the for helium tanks we can use the once we use for oxygen. That's thr reason I was fixed on helium until I read ur post ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras and open skyes
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
I an not sure how how to question on that. These dealers are crude and are generally not come across a women buying such stuff ( India you see). Ehen I called up today for argon gas the guys asked me as what I need it for and I had told him for some experiment. He questioned me further and I just it's for neon tubes ( this one I picked up from thr net) was scared to ask him any more details on it
Enquiring about helium was easier as I said am into party planning and need it for balloons. And I go further could prove him on the pressure controller and he said the for helium tanks we can use the once we use for oxygen. That's thr reason I was fixed on helium until I read ur post ...

Argon is used for welding aluminium so you can use that excuse. If your country is sexist and will be suspicious of a woman buying it you might have to say it is for your husband or some such bullshit. Which is really awful by the way.

If you need help with anything I would be glad to help and if you start a thread I'm sure everyone else here will help you too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras, crova and open skyes
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Hallo again
Can I ask another question please?
Chair or bed and implication of both.
I have a computer chair and I plan to strap my upper body to it to prevent from fall when unconscious - and leave my legs free.
Not sure how to strap my arms yet.
I read carefully what Azeton said about tremors and moaning - its really worrying to say the least. What do you think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkTear and onewayroad
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
I think it's best to be sitting up for oxygen to continue out of the bag and the inert gas up higher. I was going to do it in my car in a seatbelt, slightly reclined. What do others think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkTear and onewayroad
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I dont have a car, so its not my option. What can go wrong if I use my computer chair and straps?
 
  • Like
Reactions: onewayroad
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Hallo again
Can I ask another question please?
Chair or bed and implication of both.
I have a computer chair and I plan to strap my upper body to it to prevent from fall when unconscious - and leave my legs free.
Not sure how to strap my arms yet.
I read carefully what Azeton said about tremors and moaning - its really worrying to say the least. What do you think?

The peaceful pill handbook states you should never lie down. But I am beginning to think it's not as much of a bible as everyone thinks it is. The case I linked to earlier of a man who used nitrogen with a mask was lying down and there were very little signs of struggle. The handbook also recommends against using masks because they do not seal but full face diving masks do seal. And there is no mention in the handbook that argon and nitrogen are anaesthetics but helium is not.

Anyway I don't know if the computer chair will work well, it may not be stable enough. I am going to be in the driver's seat of my car, slightly reclined. I don't think straps are necessary if you have a sturdy chair that you will not fall out of.

The case study Azeton provided can be read in full here:
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...EeeLTTRZ/FgFbMAUyoaMQfPwTA4nymButS/7RdRrFjA==

You will notice that the mask is an oxygen mask like this:
F1.large.jpg


Imagine connecting a snorkel to that mask and trying to use it underwater. It's not going to work at all because it's not designed to seal. That is why that person took a long time to die and experienced convulsions etc. If you use a hood or a full face diving mask which fully seals you will lose consciousness in a few breaths and die within a few minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkTear, lv-gras and crova
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
I think it's best to be sitting up for oxygen to continue out of the bag and the inert gas up higher. I was going to do it in my car in a seatbelt, slightly reclined. What do others think?

Funny, as you posted that I was typing the above message saying that I am doing the exact same thing. I think it's a good idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Made4TV
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
I dont have a car, so its not my option. What can go wrong if I use my computer chair and straps?
Sounds reasonable to me as long as you can't slide down or fall to 1 side. Don't underestimate dead weight...
 
  • Like
Reactions: crova
A

azeton

Student
Jun 2, 2018
100
Today's inquest heard how 52-year-old Christopher Southgate, a university lecturer, was discovered with a plastic bag over his head and tubing leading to an Argon gas cylinder. He was tied to a chair and his hands had been cable tied to the belt loops on his trousers. A post mortem concluded that Southgate, who held a doctorate, died as a result of asphyxia due to plastic bag suffocation and inhalation of Argon gas.

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/university-dean-committed-suicide-bembridge-caravan-using-argon-gas/
 
  • Like
Reactions: crova
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Funny, as you posted that I was typing the above message saying that I am doing the exact same thing. I think it's a good idea.
Yes, car seems to be the best option - confined space lots of way to adjust body position, no mess in a bed room...
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras and onewayroad
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Today's inquest heard how 52-year-old Christopher Southgate, a university lecturer, was discovered with a plastic bag over his head and tubing leading to an Argon gas cylinder. He was tied to a chair and his hands had been cable tied to the belt loops on his trousers. A post mortem concluded that Southgate, who held a doctorate, died as a result of asphyxia due to plastic bag suffocation and inhalation of Argon gas.

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/university-dean-committed-suicide-bembridge-caravan-using-argon-gas/
Good find; than you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
I think it's best to be sitting up for oxygen to continue out of the bag and the inert gas up higher. I was going to do it in my car in a seatbelt, slightly reclined. What do others think?
Yes, car seems to be the best option - confined space lots of way to adjust body position, no mess in a bed room...

The other appeal of my car is that I can drive to a remote location, say two hours drive from the nearest hospital, then call an ambulance right before I turn on the gas. Get found hours later by trained paramedics not some poor stranger or even worse, family.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N-IsMyHope, DarkTear, lv-gras and 1 other person
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Sounds reasonable to me as long as you can't slide down or fall to 1 side. Don't underestimate dead weight...
No i dont - thats why my questions here today.
How about this - tremors and moaning then?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
The other appeal of my car is that I can drive to a remote location, say two hours drive from the nearest hospital, then call an ambulance right before I turn on the gas. Get found hours later by trained paramedics not some poor stranger or even worse, family.
Oh my gosh I wouldn't dare do this. Send a delayed email the next day. With our luck one of the hospital workers would find a cop driving by where you are. You need at least an hour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N-IsMyHope, DarkTear, lv-gras and 2 others
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
The other appeal of my car is that I can drive to a remote location, say two hours drive from the nearest hospital, then call an ambulance right before I turn on the gas. Get found hours later by trained paramedics not some poor stranger or even worse, family.
you can email them using boomerang plugin and decide when exactly your message reach the addressee.
Two hours seems very tight time frame to me. I would send my email with 2 days delay thanks to this cute plugin
 
  • Like
Reactions: N-IsMyHope, DarkTear, lv-gras and 1 other person
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
No i dont - thats why my questions here today.
How about this - tremors and moaning then?
Well yeah... Any of this could make a noise. Is that what you're concerned about?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras and onewayroad
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
Yup I use boomerang to send delayed email. Never had a problem with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras and onewayroad
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Oh my gosh I wouldn't dare do this. Send a delayed email the next day. With our luck one of the hospital workers would find a cop driving by where you are. You need at least an hour.

Right, I didn't think of that. They could easily find a cop on patrol that is slightly closer. Can you email emergency services and get an ambulance that way?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkTear and lv-gras
Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
Right, I didn't think of that. They could easily find a cop on patrol that is slightly closer. Can you email emergency services and get an ambulance that way?
I'd just delay email the police myself. Or someone else unless you have a 911 type email?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lv-gras and crova
A

azeton

Student
Jun 2, 2018
100
на земле
 

Attachments

  • video-cdn.on.cc - 1236961383.mp4
    2.1 MB · Views: 33
  • Like
Reactions: NSA

Similar threads

Tommen Baratheon
Replies
3
Views
573
Suicide Discussion
Tommen Baratheon
Tommen Baratheon
C
Replies
22
Views
2K
Suicide Discussion
kudaphillips
K
S
Replies
2
Views
829
Suicide Discussion
reborn87
R
F
Replies
2
Views
2K
Suicide Discussion
Authentic13
A
P
Replies
0
Views
241
Suicide Discussion
Podlerman
P