My response to Tantacrul and his video.

[BlackMilk]

Nothing like lying about one of the few places people with suicidal thoughts can be honest about their emotions. He should be ashamed of himself.

 

[wanttogetonthebus]

It's been a while since I last visited this site, but I had this video pop up today in my feed and I was utterly appalled and disgusted. I was already subscribed to this Youtuber for his musical content and it makes me extremely angry to see him out of nowhere start a completely misguided witch hunt around a vulnerable community for the benefit of his own channel just as the NYT article tried to rile up controversy rather than neutrally investigate an important issue and hear from all sides of the discussion. Needless to say, I promptly unsubscribed to him, did not watch any of his video because I don't want to give him any watchtime, and also left two of my own comments defending what this site stands for and why this community exists (which will probably get deleted by him anyway since it seems he wants to create his own 'echo chamber' "ME GOOD. OTHER OPINION BAD. DESTROY!" basically a mindset similar to that). It was very thoughtful of you, Rain, to take the time to respond to his accusations and concerns so respectfully and in so much detail. I'm sure it gets very tiring giving our side of the story to people who often never listen or take any effort to consider anything that we say. It's so clear to me that the mainstream attitude and perspective is that no person SHOULD have the right to complete autonomy or should have a complete right to pursue their own happiness and lives and that no single human is capable of making their own decisions regarding their own well-being (rather, all suffering, all life, every moment a heart beats even in the greatest of agony is a NOBLE ACT that should be pursued above all other things. Why? Because they say so, and whatever they say is right. And that's THE penultimate logic. The absolute and indisputable truth of all things. ) Unless of course, you got the chance to be born as a dog or something because even if dog-you 1,000% DID want to live, humans are gonna be like, "Uh, nope you're good. :) That's certainly enough life for you. I think it'll be better for your own sake in the NOT being alive club. :)." Or you happen to be a prisoner who society hates so so much, that they'll throw their forced so-called 'moral principles' conveniently aside for the time-being just to boot you out of their being-alive club'.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I hope that thread that has his video linked is locked. That thread already has 5k views in 5 hours . 5k ads for his video smearing this site. Tantracul : he's trying to make money off us suicidal people imo. And just clicking his video makes him more money . I hope members repeatedly bumping that thread realize they are just providing more ads for his video.

His video is not interesting nor truth . So how does the thread linking it deserve 5k views in 5 hours? I don't remember too many threads receiving that many views or bumps that fast.

Each click helps the video in the YouTube algorithm.

the way people here keep talking about and replying to the thread where the dumb video is linked might make it go viral. Best way to combat that video is to not click on it and tell everyone to ignore it. take it as something not worthy of discussion because it isn't. It's just a. Attempt by a YouTuber to make money

Clicks on his video will make him money and move the video up on the YouTube algorithm. That's what YouTubers are after clicks & views which translate to money. He's using us suffering people to enrich himself with cash $.

i will never watch his video

My thread (which you referenced) was only to warn people on this site that this site would be featured on his channel. I did not make the thread to promote his channel whatsoever.

 

[NumbItAll]

Thanks for your dedication @RainAndSadness. Chapter 6 resonated in particular.

 

[GrizzlyGrapefruit]

Beautifully put.

I truly don't know where I'd be without this forum. I have said it time and time again, this forum saved me from CTB back when I was at my lowest. It was clear that I wasn't ready to go, and I fully believe that being able to talk about my intent to kill myself without fear of being sent to a ward is what saved me.

 

[Blue_mist]

He is not willing to listen to other opinions, i tried to reply to his video but he kept deleting every comment i wrote, this should give you a full image of his malicious personality, almost certain he didn't make that video because he cares, no he is trying to attract more attention and popularity he desperately needs.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I'm stressed out and exhausted currently but I'll try to put my thoughts out, hopefully Tantacrul or others will read them. This is about "Thoughts for next time" I haven't read any other posts or threads about this yet, other than seeing something that bothered me, but I couldn't find the original context(it might be in Tantacrul's video) so I'll get to that later. I kinda don't want to watch the video and give it another view.

His questions:
1. Is the person under age?
-yes, when I was originally suicidal a long time ago
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
-yes, many times
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?
-yes, and often they make things worse, being outright abusive shouting & making fun of things like torture, the other times they say nothing's wrong with me and it's my family's fault

So these questions, I find them really ignorant because its making the bold assumption that if someone is suicidal there must be something wrong with them. Instead of it being a problem with their environment, society, family, other conditions etc. Also the assumption that those things would actually help. Maybe instead of just telling them to go do 2. + 3. they also take responsibility themselves, as they're just passing the buck and pointing the finger (at suicidal people and us). Maybe make a video that society has to change, people to be less cruel to each other, investigate people in odd conditions more closely with an open mind etc etc. I've been let down so many times in my life.

"No one has thought to say 'perhaps speak to a suicide hotline anonymously" - that's because suicide hotlines are shit, in my experience and definitely at least some others. About the rest, I've seen a few times where people have told posters to take a step back and think about things. especially when it seems like its a younger poster, or if there are other signs.

"it is actually possible for some people to overcome suicidal ideation and lead a relatively peaceful life" - there's also people like me that haven't been happy their entire lives and have to had to go through so much and still not in a good place. Other people can feel happy or good about that, and I don't expect people to feel different because even my friends like that I'm around, but its a living nightmare. Not everyone gets a happy life.

"just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too." - no I totally agree, I'm aware of my own bias, thanks. What you don't see is how incredibly patronizing & demeaning it can be to have your autonomy violated constantly, and a lot of things come under this umbrella of so-called good intentions. It's frustrating when nobody takes you seriously.

Hmm he give his email out at the end. I might post my reply there. I honestly doubt he'll listen, everyone has an echo chamber in their head and prefer to listen to people that agree with them.

He is not willing to listen to other opinions, i tried to reply to his video but he kept deleting every comment i wrote, this should give you a full image of his malicious personality, almost certain he didn't make that video because he cares, no he is trying to attract more attention and popularity he desperately needs.

Typical. Well maybe someone that isn't him will read our replies and listen. That was my first impression tbh. Imagine just doing all this for more views...

 

[Remember]

Thank you so much for writing this response, and I hope (likely in vain) that the people swayed by Tantacrul's video will read your post and understand the reality of this site. I've been feeling pretty good lately and honestly forgot about this site until the juicy youtube thumbnail about an 'evill killer website' made me furious upon finding out exactly what he was disrespecting.

I'm a chronically suicidal person and although I've never interacted directly with this community before it's been a real pillar for me over the years. Many times I've come close to ending it with no one to talk to, and so I'd open Sanctioned Suicide. Every time the great compassion and respect and understanding and dignity this community holds would provide relief I could not find anywhere else. The fact that he says with full seriousness that this community, filled with people who are so sincere and caring despite their suffering, is some sort of pro-death cult... It's totally ridiculous.

If he were trying to give anything approaching a rational evaluation of the site he wouldn't ignore the recovery forum and the thoughtful words of remembrance community members often leave when someone's passed. Dude clearly has never dealt with suicide before, especially not on a personal level and just wants to scream about how scary death is to him. It makes me really mad.

I could say more but honestly just wanted to lend my support during what is likely to be a flood of people who don't get it and don't care.

Thank you.

 

[AloneInCollege]

Thank you for making this response. I just saw the video and it horrified me. Reading the comments made it worse. He's literally profiting off of the death of his friend and by making us look like super villains. He's disgusting. I'm so thankful for this place and everyone on it.

View attachment 103766

They really do think we're predators, lol

View attachment 103767
And what does this even mean??????

I hate how they spam that "you are loved and valued" bullshit. They don't know me and sure as hell don't care. They say that to feel good about themselves. If they knew about me, they would no I'm not loved or valued. But they can't think that people experience that because they're so dumb that they think that because they're happy and wanted and loved, everyone is.

 

[nil243]

1. I actually found that vid because it was recommended to me on YT. I clicked it b/c I watch a lot of commentary videos and I actually thought it couldn't be SaSu so I was curious wtf this site was. I thought it wasn't this site because I barely see any minors here, let alone minors being encouraged to ctb.

Had the same exact experience earlier today before hopping on this thread, and the way everything seemed to be grossly misrepresented in the video and set up for the shock value made me really triggered so I stopped watching. It's pretty upsetting seeing fellow members and mods being wrongly vilified like that, but the further stigmatizing only makes me want to stand for this forum and its values more.

 

[Monkeyman]

You could tell that guy was malicious and had zero actual altruistic intentions when he came here to troll the site and actively ignored the sensible responses he got to his idiotic questionings. He's straight up just bullying people who are suffering to get more clicks and money. This is even disrespectful to the kid he claims to be doing this for, and notice how he tries to make it seem like System 32 looked like an adjusted individual when his music and art clearly expressed his ideation - you'd think he'd have picked up on that if he actually cared instead of waiting for the boy to kill himself and then harassing a bunch of equally depressed people online for the crime of also suffering.

This is vile, it's disgusting. Using a kid's depression and suicide, as well as an entire community's, as a trampoline to put out a viral video and look like a hero to those who don't know better. And he knows he doesn't need to be true or particularly eloquent in his fearmongering because his audience will still eat that shit up.

 

[the_town_manager]

You could tell that guy was malicious and had zero actual altruistic intentions when he came here to troll the site and actively ignored the sensible responses he got to his idiotic questionings. He's straight up just bullying people who are suffering to get more clicks and money. This is even disrespectful to the kid he claims to be doing this for, and notice how he tries to make it seem like System 32 looked like an adjusted individual when his music and art clearly expressed his ideation - you'd think he'd have picked up on that if he actually cared instead of waiting for the boy to kill himself and then harassing a bunch of equally depressed people online for the crime of also suffering.

This is vile, it's disgusting. Using a kid's depression and suicide, as well as an entire community's, as a trampoline to put out a viral video and look like a hero to those who don't know better. And he knows he doesn't need to be true or particularly eloquent in his fearmongering because his audience will still eat that shit up.

I think the guy's a blinkered moron for sure, but most likely not consciously disingenuous in his intentions. I doubt he made the video to capitalize on the dead kid. He's just encountered something that he's never had to deal with before and was shocked. And instead of trying to understand it, he attacked it. Happens all the time. Especially when all of society is constantly parroting how suicide is never the answer and other such inanities.

 

[resolutory]

The thing that annoys me most about this is that it's a reminder to me that life and society is all just about power. This dude was able to do this because he has power: a relatively large YouTube channel. While us, the relatively powerless, are unable to defend ourselves, from a powerful individual proclaiming his ideas against the powerless and purporting a one-sided argument. Simply because he has power.

The ironic thing is that this has actually somewhat motivated me. To strive to become powerful.

 

[MindFog]

The comments in that video really cements the kind of community he's building. People giving empty words of "support" or those would wanted us to just die already be it by ourselves or by the police.

It's ironic how he says there's some non toxic members in SS but let's people to treat us like this evil hivemind and outright called SS a cult.

It's feels outright dehumanizing that even his ending speech to "call for help" falls flat. You can't have *your cake and it eat it too man.

 

[MidnightCat]

The comments in that video really cements the kind of community he's building. People giving empty words of "support" or those would wanted us to just die already be it by ourselves or by the police.

It's ironic how he says there's some non toxic members in SS but let's people to treat us like this evil hivemind and outright called SS a cult.

It's feels outright dehumanizing that even his ending speech to "call for help" falls flat. You can't have *your cake and it eat it too man.

That video is just to get views, it's a history he made to sell it to the public, just that.

And, should be noted, the majority of the forum is not toxic (even the ones he "flagged" as toxic) and the reality it's just some toxic members, not the other way around.

 

[Sourdough]

Watching this video feels like listening to a creationist explain why evolution isn't real or a flat earther. To uninformed, ignorant people it sounds defensible. This is what they are relying on, you taking their word for it

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

"just because you are certain that you want to die doesn't mean you should be certain that others should die too." - no I totally agree, I'm aware of my own bias, thanks. What you don't see is how incredibly patronizing & demeaning it can be to have your autonomy violated constantly, and a lot of things come under this umbrella of so-called good intentions. It's frustrating when nobody takes you seriously.

This is another excellent point. It's a feature of our community that is easily exploitable. Our philosophy is to respect people's autonomy, so messages that question motives or respond with (meaningless) platitudes are actually disrespectful to our members. To those whose philosophy is "life at all costs," this is not a sign of respect, but evidence of neglect. Again, they just don't (or can't) understand us.

They also tend to paint our messages of support and comfort ("I wish you peace") as messages of encouragement. It's clear to us that we do not encourage other members. But they view our lack of action to stop them as a form of encouragement.

The ironic thing is that this has actually somewhat motivated me. To strive to become powerful.

But how do we as a group become powerful? We are hindered by the system. We are reduced to anonymity for fear of involuntary hospitalization. And there is such an overwhelming stigma surrounding suicide. I'm not sure that any amount of wealth or influence could enable anyone of us to speak truth to change people's minds. If you were in such a position and advocated for our cause, you'd be cancelled. We'd need a rather large shift in societal views before something like that could happen, I would think. Perhaps a bit of a chicken-and-egg scenario.

 

[Fulminare]

I just wanna say that this thread has really helped me. A friend of mine sent me the video and started calling it a "cult". It deeply upset me, but reading all of this calmed me down. You guys really re-establish the hope I've lost in humanity.

The fact that his video is monetized says it all. See, I come from the same field as him. I work in the entertainment industry and know exactly how bigger YouTubers think. This is the perfect reflection of my experience with them. But honestly, this site has already went through it's worst when the whole NYT thing went down. A YouTube video will not do anything.

Guess why so many people on YouTube want to be controversial and hated. Because it brings attention to them and people will look up their name. People will look up this website, make up their own mind, and understand that this is no place of fetishization, cultism, or whatever else he pulled out of his ass. To be fair, there are cases like my friend who hasn't even looked up the site and decided to go with the horde. When I told him about the Recovery section, he called it "like anime girls who look 11 but are canonically 900 years old. it's a sham". Not gonna lie, that made me chuckle. What a comparison.

I'm honestly glad that SanctionedSuicide is gaining some traction and I do hope that video at least reached people who have no outlet for their suicidal thoughts in fear of involuntary hospitalization. I've been talked about in hate videos with false info and it got to me real good. But understand this is all digital and the facts are that the right to die is becoming more established. Therapy helped me a lot to understand this aspect of digital hate campaigns. I don't know, this is just me rambling but I'm thankful for this website and the fact that I'm allowed to even say all of this without being judged.

 

[Anonymous1997ES]

All I'm going to say is this, not just to Tantacrul, but to all the people whom calling members from here monsters:

I hope you all realize how privileged and grateful all of you should be, because you all probably have everything: nice families, supportive friends, perhaps a romantic partner, promising careers... And most importantly above everything else, the knowledge that being yourselves is more than enough to get all the former things.

Let's say you succeed in your goal, and Sanctioned Suicide is brought down, alongside the SuicideWatch subreddit and any other support website five years from now... But some of you begin to develop depression and suicidal thoughts. A betrayal from a friend, a severe health problem, lack of a job and a broken existence, your father/mother passes away... You seek help, but barely avoided being sent into a psychiatric hospital because you got lucky with a kind psychiatrist whom warned you about the system.

Therapy doesn't work, pills doesn't work and your support network is slowly being reduced day after day... And so, you seek the internet for help, but because of the laws you and countless others helped create, you can't even talk about suicide because you'd get into legal trouble, and risk being sent into a psychiatric hospital to end up with thousands of dollars in debt. Plus... Some people are either 100% alone, or very close to reaching that number, not everyone has friends, families or a romantic partner waiting for them, and their support networks are almost zero...

You finally understand. You finally understand how those people felt when pro-lifers destroyed their last bastion of free speech and hope, but regret came far too late... And then think, what did you do to help others, besides judging them and forcing them to exist? If society itself prevented abuse, and taught people the power of empathy, compassion and kindness, then suicides would be very low... But alas, you created your own hell, and can't even ask for help, because you'll get invalidated and ignored like you did to others years ago.

PD:
In this reddit post some people understand our POV, thanks for the post Rain, perhaps someday humanity will understand that people don't deserve to suffer for years or decades, but instead, to be granted peace...

 

[Euthanza]

Thank you for writing that long and explaining detail by detail what's really happening with patience and rationality.
I just don't have enough patience regarding crab mentality of suicide prevention.

 

[Capsaicin78]

Holy fuck. this actually calmed me down a little bit. I was so angry at first when I saw his video. At least I know that there are some good people out there. Thank you so much for being here for us @RainAndSadness <3

 

[looseye]

Hi Tentacrul, your video worked really well. Thank you!

 

[Forever Sleep]

The comments in that video really cements the kind of community he's building. People giving empty words of "support" or those would wanted us to just die already be it by ourselves or by the police.

It's ironic how he says there's some non toxic members in SS but let's people to treat us like this evil hivemind and outright called SS a cult.

It's feels outright dehumanizing that even his ending speech to "call for help" falls flat. You can't have *your cake and it eat it too man.

I wondered this actually... I've only clicked on the video once and only watched the first few seconds- wish I hadn't even done that to be honest. I haven't seen the comments but I feel like I can predict what's there.

It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that there are people there effectively coexing us to kill ourselves ('just die already'- as you mentioned.) Wonder just how many comments there are on his video saying that compared to how many there are here! Ironic huh? The VERY thing we're accused of doing (yet it VERY rarely happens. Not sure I've even seen it once...) is likely rife over there. Wish I had the patience to do a tally- he loved tallies...

 

[Lammpz]

I wondered this actually... I've only clicked on the video once and only watched the first few seconds- wish I hadn't even done that to be honest. I haven't seen the comments but I feel like I can predict what's there.

It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that there are people there effectively coexing us to kill ourselves ('just die already'- as you mentioned.) Wonder just how many comments there are on his video saying that compared to how many there are here! Ironic huh? The VERY thing we're accused of doing (yet it VERY rarely happens. Not sure I've even seen it once...) is likely rife over there. Wish I had the patience to do a tally- he loved tallies...

View attachment 103960
They think we're deranged and evil. They're completely oblivious to how suicidal people act and struggle, and yet they believe to be the most suited people to help us, in spite of behaving with so much hostility towards us, lol.

 

[LastFlowers]

View attachment 103960
They think we're deranged and evil. They're completely oblivious to how suicidal people act and struggle, and yet they believe to be the most suited people to help us, in spite of behaving with so much hostility towards us, lol.

Wait a minute..if I understand that second comment correctly, essentially they're saying that in order to become pro-life and obtain the cure to being suicidal, one must simply sit back and watch other suicidal people kill themselves..?

What a takeaway.

And what's with the first comment?
I mean..idk what they think is coming for them in their time, but answer or no answer, death is inevitable regardless.

(I'm very sorry that I involuntarily became a little amused at their casual reference of "cake".
Why is cake still here? Idk man, because it's tasty?)

Anyway, I've seen far worse commentary than that of Sandwhale and GarlckBread.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

(I'm very sorry that I involuntarily became a little amused at their casual reference of "cake".
Why is cake still here? Idk man, because it's tasty?)

Not sure if you were joking or were genuinely confused by the reference. "Cake123" (or something like that) was the pseudonym the video used for one of our more prolific members.

 

[LastFlowers]

Not sure if you were joking or were genuinely confused by the reference. "Cake123" (or something like that) was the pseudonym the video used for one of our more prolific members.

No I know who it is lol, I was just joking (that's why I felt bad for being amused by the way they phrased it).
But thank you.

 

[maya.]

sheesh i saw his video pop up in my recommended and was surprised it was ss, his video was extremely biased, untrue and pretty triggering lmao
tantacrul claims to care so deeply for someone he was never even close to and chose to end his life himself with careful planning (i assume since he was querying people about the steps it takes). i'm sure the person in question wouldn't even be on tantacrul's side if he was watching from above, like who is he to have such an opinionated view on someone when he didn't even know their circumstances. this forum is what gave him the peace he wanted.

not to mention his wording of people on this forum of being evil, like damn, why can't people have their own beliefs and choices? just because we're not all christian and don't believe that killing ourselves is a sin doesn't mean it's evil. it seems more evil forcing people into a world they didn't ask to be in and making them suffer.

hopefully this ends up rolling over because it would suck to see the world giving us even less choices than we already have

 

[Snarlax]

This is my first post on this forum, and Tantacrul's video is the reason I found it.

After lurking around here over the past week, I've come to the conclusion that he is wrong in his assesment. Even though there are some red flags about this forum (like the creators also being behind several female-hostile incel forums), I find that SS is remarkably civil and that the atmosphere is very supportive. The fact that people here seem to spend a lot of time writing eloquent responses, looks to me like something that could inspire the exact hope in humanity that I would have cherised at the time I was suicidal.

To that end, I'm quite dissapointed in Tantacrul. Like user wanttogetonthebus wrote on pg 3 of this thread, I have been folllowing Tantacrul, or Martin Keary, on Youtube for quite a while, and I think he has made very good videos in the past. For example, he has a video about how musical toys of bad quality are patronising to children and adults alike. He talks a lot about showing empathy towards beginners and those not yet enfranchised with something, and calling out those taking advantage of them. I would have thought he would be a bit more understanding towards suicidal people, but the more his video went on, the more tone-deaf it became. The ending was a catastrophe. But the most clueless were the people he interviewed. My god, what self-rigtheous family members and politicians.

I agree with what others have said about Martins relationship with System32. Pointing to the fact that someone is always displaying a positive aura in all your interactions, and therefor would not *really* want to end their life, is naive at best and arrogant at worst. But I disagree that Martin is only going after this forum to gain viewership and sympathy from his audience. I actually think he is going through a trauma. System32 is probably the first person he has "known" that actually went through with suicide. I believe he blames himself for this, and the video is a Youtuber's way of mobilising his feelings. I think he thought he had to do something, and with no other villain in sight, he could only go after the forum. It's like others have said, if you actually get to know the reason why a person wants to end their life, you would see that there are many things to go after before a bleak internet forum, but the poeple that are usually the most apalled when an acquaintance takes their own life are usually the ones that never took time to understand their viewpoint of life in the first place.

There is also another possibility: That Martin has been suicidal in the past himself, and reading about suicide here is triggering for him. Like many people, maybe the toxic positivity is a coping mechanism, and the way he made the video is more to convince himself that suicide is wrong than it is to sway others.

I will be very interested in what Martin does next, for he has historically not been as clueless as he was in that video, and nowhere nere as clueless as the people he interviewed. I believe he is probably still lurking the site. I don't really know what I would do in his situation, becuase even though he has relatively large power on the internet, we all know a Youtuber has nowhere near enough power to actually change any of the things that are actually wrong with the world.

 

[Alcoholic Teletubby]

I would liken the semantics of this to the following scenario:
A child informs a parent that they no longer wish to live. The parent gives a sour expression.

As they lead the child to a seat, they grab hold of their shoulders. The parent then places a loaded gun on the child's lap after they have taken a seat. The parent berates the child while telling them to remain still and stare at the gun. The child is then subjected to a conflicting mix of encouragement and criticism. No comfort in the body.

The parent yells, "Do you know how blessed you are to even be alive?!" Child nods. This routine has been in place for several weeks. The parent's attention is diverted by something else, and they turn to look.

BANG!

The child shot themselves.
As their child lay dying, the parent cries out and rushes to get their phone and dial an ambulance. However, despite their tears and grief, they are unable to see the child. The child wonders why the parent won't hug them during their brief remaining time as the child's gaze bores onto them. 'I really was a burden,' they believe. 'I'm terribly sorry. You won't need to put up with me any longer.'

TLDR; The approach that pro-lifers take to the issue of suicide directly contributes to its continuation. I know my example was heavy-handed.