Life is meaningless without emotional connections or you contributing to society in some way

Buh-bye! · Aug 29, 2024

sserafim said:
You don't owe society a thing. We were all forced to participate in society against our will. We had no choice as to whether we wanted to participate in society or not. It is something that we were born into. Also, what has society given us? Society should provide everyone with the bare necessities: food, shelter and water. No one chose to be born and it's absurd that people have to work for things which should be human rights. People should be provided them for free. Society believes that everyone owes a debt to it but in reality, we don't owe a debt to society

i do understand your point bud, that's why i said " most people " not all of them. now as to why i said most people owe a debt to society, it isn't something inculcated in me by other people, instead i came to that conclusion myself ( which no doubt can be proved wrong ). let me try an example to explain why most owe a debt to society ( in my opinion ),
Also, your birth is not really related to the society actually it's your parents who can be held responsible. why would the society owe us free shit at all ? even the slightest of help they do is worth something since it makes your life easier ( compared to the contrary ).

now even though there are countless examples i'll list 1 or 2 that are in my mind right now.
1. we don't have to fetch water from a well or always travel barefooted ( since got public transport ) don't have to stand any injustice since got law and order, can easily give or take anything we want if we have the amount required to avail it, are not being forced to do anything with our lives as long as we don't wish to and there's just countless other benefits that are a result of being in a structured society that was - not a result of people's selfishness but a result of people fighting for these things, devoting there lives to protest for a fair system for everyone. ( now surely it ain't real fair yet but i do think the majority is availing benefits of the fair system ).
2. there are countless others who can just stop doing what they do, right now, and our worlds will be affected by it. ( can't think of an example rn ).
3. ( my brain's too limited to think beyond this so my examples aren't that great )
4. i couldn't recall the word activists then but now i do. i believe activists as a whole are a part of the society and they did make a hell lot of changes affecting almost everyone.

that all

assuming one could just say, i didn't ask for it, which is true, i wouldn't really have anything to say to them i believe since i do believe in selfishness. ( majorly )

derpyderpins said:
Valuing yourself, taking care of yourself, and being good to yourself are fine, important things to do. Living selfishly and only for yourself is an express lane to misery. Filling the God-shaped hole with worship of the self does not work. Really look at the people on here who advocate for putting oneself above all others . . . does it seem like it's going well for them?

You don't have to be a martyr or philanthropist or completely sacrifice yourself, but if you don't believe there is something bigger than you then you'll never find purpose. Learn to enjoy seeing someone else be happy, learn to see some good in the world even if there's also bad.

thanks a lot for taking your time to write this mate, i appreciate it. i do understand how to make sense of everything around us, it's actually pretty easy since most of those things are instinctive to us. and even if i think about it, i know i could never attain a position as big as that of martyr or a philanthropist.

i know people with the " my life, my - " moto are suffering greatly even though many don't realize it. and i am not trying to advocate putting oneself over the other, i guess my whole passage just came out wrong ( never be able to make myself understood ). anyhow selfishness is to ctb without giving to the society, selfishness is to ctb without paying back to yur parents ( i am one of those who believes you owe them ), selfishness does not mean going all apathetic and not caring about others but the selfishness here means not putting in the effort for that greater cause you mentioned.
you see i do not want a purpose anymore, i have had my chances with those. even if i had a great life i would just push it all through the cliff and then jump off of it myself. ( although too conflicted opinions about that, suddenly struggling over whether i still want to do it or have i grown fond of the idea or sumn ).

the things you mentioned, i am really happy to see someone write those. i'd definitely give it a thought.
have a good day

P.S - i reckon i am confused between my mind telling me it's all pointless but the empathy ( whatever amounts left ) trying to stop me from believing that.

derpyderpins · Aug 29, 2024

Buh-bye! said:
( never be able to make myself understood ).

No worries! We can have a back-and-forth to come to a meeting of the minds. I get where you're coming from, I think.

Buh-bye! said:
anyhow selfishness is to ctb without giving to the society,

I'd say selfishness with your choice to live or die is warranted, especially since after your death society isn't going to keep paying for you or anything.

Buh-bye! said:
selfishness is to ctb without paying back to yur parents ( i am one of those who believes you owe them ),

My personal view is that your parents are obligated to take care of you until you're an adult (willing to debate a cutoff but I'd say 21 in the modern-age.) They wanted perceived benefits from having children knowing the cost to raise them, they shouldn't expect to be repaid. After that, if you keep relying on them, I do think they should get something in exchange (though not necessarily a check for all expenses.)

Buh-bye! said:
selfishness does not mean going all apathetic and not caring about others but the selfishness here means not putting in the effort for that greater cause you mentioned.
you see i do not want a purpose anymore, i have had my chances with those. even if i had a great life i would just push it all through the cliff and then jump off of it myself. ( although too conflicted opinions about that, suddenly struggling over whether i still want to do it or have i grown fond of the idea or sumn ).

I gotcha. You don't want to see good people around you trying hard and feel like a burden. The thing is, you aren't stuck being who you are now, who would push the great life off the cliff. Just food-for-thought.

Buh-bye! said:
the things you mentioned, i am really happy to see someone write those. i'd definitely give it a thought.
have a good day

You too :) Happy to talk if you ever need someone.

Buh-bye! said:
P.S - i reckon i am confused between my mind telling me it's all pointless but the empathy ( whatever amounts left ) trying to stop me from believing that.

Life is very difficult to figure out, and none of us will ever have it exactly right. It's okay to be confused.

sserafim · Aug 29, 2024

Buh-bye! said:
i do understand your point bud, that's why i said " most people " not all of them. now as to why i said most people owe a debt to society, it isn't something inculcated in me by other people, instead i came to that conclusion myself ( which no doubt can be proved wrong ). let me try an example to explain why most owe a debt to society ( in my opinion ),
Also, your birth is not really related to the society actually it's your parents who can be held responsible. why would the society owe us free shit at all ? even the slightest of help they do is worth something since it makes your life easier ( compared to the contrary ).

now even though there are countless examples i'll list 1 or 2 that are in my mind right now.
1. we don't have to fetch water from a well or always travel barefooted ( since got public transport ) don't have to stand any injustice since got law and order, can easily give or take anything we want if we have the amount required to avail it, are not being forced to do anything with our lives as long as we don't wish to and there's just countless other benefits that are a result of being in a structured society that was - not a result of people's selfishness but a result of people fighting for these things, devoting there lives to protest for a fair system for everyone. ( now surely it ain't real fair yet but i do think the majority is availing benefits of the fair system ).
2. there are countless others who can just stop doing what they do, right now, and our worlds will be affected by it. ( can't think of an example rn ).
3. ( my brain's too limited to think beyond this so my examples aren't that great )
4. i couldn't recall the word activists then but now i do. i believe activists as a whole are a part of the society and they did make a hell lot of changes affecting almost everyone.

that all

assuming one could just say, i didn't ask for it, which is true, i wouldn't really have anything to say to them i believe since i do believe in selfishness. ( majorly )

thanks a lot for taking your time to write this mate, i appreciate it. i do understand how to make sense of everything around us, it's actually pretty easy since most of those things are instinctive to us. and even if i think about it, i know i could never attain a position as big as that of martyr or a philanthropist.

i know people with the " my life, my - " moto are suffering greatly even though many don't realize it. and i am not trying to advocate putting oneself over the other, i guess my whole passage just came out wrong ( never be able to make myself understood ). anyhow selfishness is to ctb without giving to the society, selfishness is to ctb without paying back to yur parents ( i am one of those who believes you owe them ), selfishness does not mean going all apathetic and not caring about others but the selfishness here means not putting in the effort for that greater cause you mentioned.
you see i do not want a purpose anymore, i have had my chances with those. even if i had a great life i would just push it all through the cliff and then jump off of it myself. ( although too conflicted opinions about that, suddenly struggling over whether i still want to do it or have i grown fond of the idea or sumn ).

the things you mentioned, i am really happy to see someone write those. i'd definitely give it a thought.
have a good day

P.S - i reckon i am confused between my mind telling me it's all pointless but the empathy ( whatever amounts left ) trying to stop me from believing that.

People have to work to survive and pay to exist. It's called earning a living. You have to pay for food, water, and shelter: which are the bare necessities required for survival. They all cost money. I don't know why a living has to be earned when no one consented to their existence in the first place. People are obsessed with being "independent" and "supporting themselves" but in reality they are not independent at all. They are slaves to work and society.

Point 1 is moot because we didn't consent to be alive. We didn't force others to do what they're doing. I owe no debt to them because I never made a contract with them. They did all the things that they're doing out of their own volition. Point 2 is also moot as most wage slavery jobs don't even provide anything of value to the world. Only a few, high profession jobs like engineers, doctors provide value. You just can't accept that we owe society nothing and that society owes us everything. There's also one aspect that I see pro-society apologists like you fail to acknowledge. You fail to acknowledge that the elites have the technology and power to create robots that can replace humans. The only reason why they don't want to do that is because of planned obsolescence. It's a massive marketing scheme to intentionally design shitty products so that it runs out quick and that people can be consumers. If humanity worked together, they could abolish society entirely. Okay, maybe when technology was scarce, society is needed to maintain order. But we have the technology now to abolish society and transcend being a shitty wagie. There's no valid argument for why we owe society.

All jobs could be replaced by AI and the elites could be giving everyone UBI by now but they don't because they are greedy and selfish. They want to keep people as human capital and resources. In their eyes, people are just labor to them and for some reason, they want to keep humanity as wageslaves instead of replacing them with robots and AI, which would be good for people if they were given UBI. I don't see UBI ever being implemented into reality because this world is evil and nothing is free. Everything has to cost something. If something is free, then it must be too good to be true. Wageslaves are obsessed with working and being "productive" but in reality they are mere slaves and even if someone tried to free them, they would go back to the wage cage and refuse to get freed

Buh-bye! · Aug 30, 2024

sserafim said:
People have to work to survive and pay to exist. It's called earning a living. You have to pay for food, water, and shelter: which are the bare necessities required for survival. They all cost money. I don't know why a living has to be earned when no one consented to their existence in the first place. People are obsessed with being "independent" and "supporting themselves" but in reality they are not independent at all. They are slaves to work and society.

Point 1 is moot because we didn't consent to be alive. We didn't force others to do what they're doing. I owe no debt to them because I never made a contract with them. They did all the things that they're doing out of their own volition. Point 2 is also moot as most wage slavery jobs don't even provide anything of value to the world. Only a few, high profession jobs like engineers, doctors provide value. You just can't accept that we owe society nothing and that society owes us everything. There's also one aspect that I see pro-society apologists like you fail to acknowledge. You fail to acknowledge that the elites have the technology and power to create robots that can replace humans. The only reason why they don't want to do that is because of planned obsolescence. It's a massive marketing scheme to intentionally design shitty products so that it runs out quick and that people can be consumers. If humanity worked together, they could abolish society entirely. Okay, maybe when technology was scarce, society is needed to maintain order. But we have the technology now to abolish society and transcend being a shitty wagie. There's no valid argument for why we owe society.

All jobs could be replaced by AI and the elites could be giving everyone UBI by now but they don't because they are greedy and selfish. They want to keep people as human capital and resources. In their eyes, people are just labor to them and for some reason, they want to keep humanity as wageslaves instead of replacing them with robots and AI, which would be good for people if they were given UBI. I don't see UBI ever being implemented into reality because this world is evil and nothing is free. Everything has to cost something. If something is free, then it must be too good to be true. Wageslaves are obsessed with working and being "productive" but in reality they are mere slaves and even if someone tried to free them, they would go back to the wage cage and refuse to get freed

what's moot mean

Ah.ow · Aug 31, 2024

Forever Sleep said:
I can't remember specifically saying that, although I may have. What we all consider to be vauluable to society likely differs. Plenty would say my creative job is massively self indulgent (it is) and that it provides no practical benefit to people. I'd argue that we need distraction in life as well as meeting our core requirements. Try and imagine how gloomy it would be without any of the Arts.

But yeah, it's kind of harsh to claim anyone is utterly useless. I once watched a documentary on 'professional' beggers. This one guy could charm the birds out of the trees. Maybe he was exploiting people in return for nothing back but- was he really? He was making them smile, entertaining them for a brief moment with his charm. Ok, manipulating them for cash but ultimately, they chose whether or not to give him money.

Plus, the mavericks and rebels of this world highlight to the rest of us that something may be wrong with mainstream thinking. I remember reading once that true philosophers needed to live outside of society in order to be able to see it clearly.

I agree with that to an extent but, it isn't massively practical. Maybe they can afford to sit on a rock and contemplate existence. The rest of us probably can't...

But yeah, I think I do agree with that statement- whether I made it or not. Lol.

is the documentary available?

Forever Sleep · Aug 31, 2024

Ah.ow said:
is the documentary available?

It was years and years ago I saw it to be honest and it was likely on TV. Can't even remember what it was called. I just remember this very charming guy. I think they were 'working' in France.

Plentiful_Despair · Aug 31, 2024

Sorry nothing against you personally but fuck this mindset of contributing to society. This society has done nothing but destroy me. Human society is among the top 3 reasons for me being suicidal. I'm a nice person and was always treated like shit. I won't contribute to capitalism (and yes, thats the default state of humanity. China and co are NOT communist, they are even worse than USA and europe)

EvisceratedJester · Aug 31, 2024

Plentiful_Despair said:
I won't contribute to capitalism (and yes, thats the default state of humanity.

Capitalism isn't the default state of humanity. It didn't even start rearing its ugly head until around the late 17th century, with it growing out of European feudalism. It's a relatively new economic system.

Plentiful_Despair · Aug 31, 2024

EvisceratedJester said:
Capitalism isn't the default state of humanity. It didn't even start rearing its ugly head until around the late 17th century, with it growing out of European feudalism. It's a relatively new economic system.

You are right. I was talking about todays humanity though, should have clarified that. There is no truly communist or truly feudalist country today (not that I would prefere that, it's also just rich men accumulating wealth and terrorizing the population). I don't think there's any hope for humanity tbh. The only system that seems to be stable is the kind of tribes that are untouched for 10 000s of years, like on North Sentinel Island or in the depths of the amazon rainforest, which still have no clue of anything beyond their own culture. But that only seems to work with small, small scales of population. And I also wouldn't want to live like that, I don't like forests and touching stuff in nature or killing animals. I need modern technology. Yeah, I'm weak. I'm useless.

derpyderpins · Sep 1, 2024