cowboypants

cowboypants

From milkyway
May 7, 2024
360
Our purpose as such is to be a function member of society as I understand, and some of us fall through the holes.

From a very young age I was questioning the point of toiling hard for studies. I wasnt really hooked on to it not that in im lazy i dont want to study way.

It just felt boring and it was something that took the joy away from me
 
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yellowjester

yellowjester

Experienced
Jun 2, 2024
211
It doesn't have to be. Humans have a very lively imagination and can create meaning for themselves even when the outside world doesn't provide then with any.
 
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WantThisToEnd

Member
Jul 12, 2024
37
But what happens when you don't have a lively imagination and can't create meaning for yourself? I think the title of this thread is true.

Life certainly feels meaningless when you don't have other people and aren't contributing to society somehow. That's one of my main reasons for wanting to ctb.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,699
@noname223
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Please show the class your work!
 
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GuessWhosBack

GuessWhosBack

The sun rises to insult me.
Jul 15, 2024
466
@noname223
@SmallKoy
@Darkover
@Blurry_Buildings
@derpyderpins
@Myforevercharlie
@Praestat_Mori
@GuessWhosBack

Please show the class your work!
I don't understand. Am I being asked to comfort @cowboypants or agree with them?

I'll try something.

@cowboypants if cows were to wear pants...

1724079108586
It just felt boring and it was something that took the joy away from me
School is not for everyone. Are there things you enjoy that can be pursued as a career?
 
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P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
10,889
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Please show the class your work!
I don't understand. ⁉️⁉️⁉️
 
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noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,958
@noname223
@SmallKoy
@Darkover
@Blurry_Buildings
@derpyderpins
@Myforevercharlie
@Praestat_Mori
@GuessWhosBack

Please show the class your work!
I think with emotional connections there is some truth in it. A newborn dies without having emotional connections.
Many humans have a desire for emotional connections. And see purpose in it. Though I think it is not a universal law and some people achieve happiness by separating themselves. I think for some life can still be meaningful without this connection. Some people who have lost things or loved ones are even scared about emotional connections. The title sounds though as if you would want emotional connections, but I am not sure. In this case I think it is worth it to risk them. But I don't know you story. Many people suck. But not all. My best friends for example.

However, contributing to society seems to be a construct for me. Many centuries ago societies looked far different. For example village idiots had a place in society. They were appreciated for being low IQ, stupid and for being funny. Incest was more common to these times and there were far more of them which probably also led to a lower stigmatizing. I think @Forever Sleep once said that contributing to the society is very subjective. (I hope I am right in that.) However, we live in capitalistic societies and they prefer defintions over monetary values. In some way you are contributing to society by posting in this forum. Lol.

Do I get a C-? @DarkRange55
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,009
There's no reason to contribute to society. You don't owe society anything. You were born without your consent, yet society expects you to contribute because it believes that everyone has a debt to pay back. Contributing to society just means getting exploited and used for your labor. There's also no merit in contributing to society. Merit is cope
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,786
I think @Forever Sleep once said that contributing to the society is very subjective.

I can't remember specifically saying that, although I may have. What we all consider to be vauluable to society likely differs. Plenty would say my creative job is massively self indulgent (it is) and that it provides no practical benefit to people. I'd argue that we need distraction in life as well as meeting our core requirements. Try and imagine how gloomy it would be without any of the Arts.

But yeah, it's kind of harsh to claim anyone is utterly useless. I once watched a documentary on 'professional' beggers. This one guy could charm the birds out of the trees. Maybe he was exploiting people in return for nothing back but- was he really? He was making them smile, entertaining them for a brief moment with his charm. Ok, manipulating them for cash but ultimately, they chose whether or not to give him money.

Plus, the mavericks and rebels of this world highlight to the rest of us that something may be wrong with mainstream thinking. I remember reading once that true philosophers needed to live outside of society in order to be able to see it clearly.

I agree with that to an extent but, it isn't massively practical. Maybe they can afford to sit on a rock and contemplate existence. The rest of us probably can't...

But yeah, I think I do agree with that statement- whether I made it or not. Lol.
 
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Blurry_Buildings

Blurry_Buildings

Just Existing
Sep 27, 2023
450
I agree that life is, by most people's defintions, meaningless without any contributions to society. Some might say you could find meaning alone in a void, but I personally would struggle with that. That being said like @Forever Sleep and @noname223 have said better, soemone's contribution to society (or any tiny part of society) can be meaningful in any way, since meaning is subjective.

I guess its easy to say that though without acknowledging the crushing reality of feeling like a cog in a machine, or even worse, feeling like you've been left out of the machine all together, watching on the side while trying to find a place to contribute.
...Id like to write more but I have to go :(. I'm sorry @cowboypants I really sympathize and I feel the same way often
 
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kinderbueno

kinderbueno

Waiting at the bus stop
Jun 22, 2024
261
Our purpose as such is to be a function member of society as I understand, and some of us fall through the holes.

From a very young age I was questioning the point of toiling hard for studies. I wasnt really hooked on to it not that in im lazy i dont want to study way.

It just felt boring and it was something that took the joy away from me
Damn this is so relatable. I dont wanna live, it's too much effort, I just want eternal peace which can only be achieved by death
 
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Mirrory Me

Mirrory Me

"Life's a mirror, but 'whose' mirror?"
Mar 23, 2023
996
Our purpose as such is to be a function member of society as I understand, and some of us fall through the holes.

From a very young age I was questioning the point of toiling hard for studies. I wasnt really hooked on to it not that in im lazy i dont want to study way.

It just felt boring and it was something that took the joy away from me
They can't always convince or support your way to your career, but there are other ways to learn also. If there's anything which excites you, you could look for a study course.
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

Normie Life Mogs
Sep 19, 2023
1,693
@noname223
@SmallKoy
@Darkover
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@derpyderpins
@Myforevercharlie
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@GuessWhosBack

Please show the class your work!
Lol sorry having wonderful emotional connections for a week or so I'll try to remember to update someday.
 
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cowboypants

cowboypants

From milkyway
May 7, 2024
360
I don't understand. Am I being asked to comfort @cowboypants or agree with them?

I'll try something.

@cowboypants if cows were to wear pants...

View attachment 148084

School is not for everyone. Are there things you enjoy that can be pursued as a career?
I'm afraid there's not any now sir. The only career I can think of is eating 👍
I agree that life is, by most people's defintions, meaningless without any contributions to society. Some might say you could find meaning alone in a void, but I personally would struggle with that. That being said like @Forever Sleep and @noname223 have said better, soemone's contribution to society (or any tiny part of society) can be meaningful in any way, since meaning is subjective.

I guess its easy to say that though without acknowledging the crushing reality of feeling like a cog in a machine, or even worse, feeling like you've been left out of the machine all together, watching on the side while trying to find a place to contribute.
...Id like to write more but I have to go :(. I'm sorry @cowboypants I really sympathize and I feel the same way often
Thanks for your reply. I think purpose was prolly more rewarding in in old times when people mostly did crafts and were rewarded for it.

Modern jobs are also similar but I think it's isn't as rewarding unless you find something you love which is hard in the modern world or we arent motivated to follow down that path cause of uncertainty perhaps
I think with emotional connections there is some truth in it. A newborn dies without having emotional connections.
Many humans have a desire for emotional connections. And see purpose in it. Though I think it is not a universal law and some people achieve happiness by separating themselves. I think for some life can still be meaningful without this connection. Some people who have lost things or loved ones are even scared about emotional connections. The title sounds though as if you would want emotional connections, but I am not sure. In this case I think it is worth it to risk them. But I don't know you story. Many people suck. But not all. My best friends for example.
I'm not in a position to pursue emotional connections IRL but yeah I think always wanted that.

I think @Forever Sleep once said that contributing to the society is very subjective. (I hope I am right in that.) However, we live in capitalistic societies and they prefer defintions over monetary values. In some way you are contributing to society by posting in this forum. Lol
Yes I too think contributing to society is subjective. We are kinda participating in society as we are spending on groceries and stuff. And lol thanks
 
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ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
4,175
Hell no, my purpose isn't contributing towards society. I don't have a purpose since I was born against my consent. I don't owe society anything since I don't remember voluntarily signing a contract with them (nor would I ever want to voluntarily sign such a contract if I got the option to). I'm not really keen on wanting to get exploited by society
 
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Steff1337

Steff1337

Autistic and schizophrenic, please be respectful
Jun 21, 2024
659
The only reasons to live are is that you're happy with your life and are contributing to the world in some way.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,662
Life is still meaningless even with those things but I suppose meaning isn't everything.
 
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Saturn_

Saturn_

Arcanist
Apr 22, 2024
423
No offense but I disagree with you completely. Maybe solitude isn't for everyone, but personally, some of my greatest accomplishments and most enjoyable days have been spent alone. Not all, but a good portion of them. I have often found myself being made or broken by others over the course of my life. People can be finicky and unreliable, but in the end, you will always have yourself, and being alone gives you an opportunity to slip into this almost zen state, where the opinions of others do not matter, and you are free to do what you want to do, love what you love, feel the way you feel. Being alone can offer you stability because it takes away the variable of human unpredictability. Maybe I mean nothing to anyone, maybe life will always be difficult, but I can find happiness in the things that mean everything to me. I could draw myself a picture or watch a great show and feel happy about that, independent from other people. Maybe I contribute nothing to this world, but when I am by myself, there is no one it will matter to. What matters most in life is what you think of it, because you're the only one with the ability to experience your life. I'm not trying to say you should isolate yourself like I do, but it's extremely valuable not to define yourself by your relationships. It's good to look past a common consensus of "purpose", and to craft your own purpose.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,699
I don't believe people are naturally loaners and hermits. I think that being a loner, at an individual level is a psychological failure and at a social level, a policy failure. Everyone wants connections to some extent and every time you hear about people who don't its because they lost their wife in war or whatever and want to go live out in the mountains. It's always a response to trauma or some shit. In reality people are literally biologically designed to be varying levels of social. I'm not saying everyone needs to go to a dance club every night or whatever. I don't want people normalize the weird blend of social enmity and anxiety that means people are hold up in their apartments not talking to anyone and they think they like being alone. No, they don't. Don't normalize the disease and rather than critique your surroundings saying you're fine. A lot of people don't like the trouble and anxiety of forming new relationships. Its coping. We're all born alone and we die alone but you get to fill the intermediary period.
If you genuinely didn't like being around other people, you wouldn't be on this forum, this is a form of social interaction. You're talking to other users. You clearly care at some level about the ability to engage socially with others. This immediate interactivity, this community - a proper community it is not. But it is something. You die eventually. You don't want to do something difficult in the meantime? Most people who call themselves loners are losers. People who have accepted, internalized and identified with the prospect being alone and away from other people are usually not very well adjusted. There's nothing innate about this. There's nothing innately making you like that. You can improve but you have to try. Nothing in life comes easy.
You dislike some elements of being social publicly because they tend to be concurrent with sounds and lights but you're not opposed to socializing element of it. It just means the enjoyment of socializing is conditional but it doesn't mean you don't like it. People essentialize too much.

Everyone wants alone time to recharge. Maybe just a little more tolerance for loud noise or more social energy. People love self categorizing and putting themselves into little boxes to help explain way the way that they are. They have to stop doing that, it doesn't help. It doesn't make you a whole person. You're giving yourself an excuse to write off certain elements of your identity. "I'm not that kind of person." it doesn't matter what kind of person you are what matters is what you want to do. Stop putting yourself into boxes and categorizing yourself. You're not "a loner," you're someone currently enjoying alone time. You're not an "ENTP" or whatever. You're someone who can memorize anime OP's. Stop obsessing any lines you can build around your character that can determine you're capable of doing X or Y.
Our purpose as such is to be a function member of society as I understand, and some of us fall through the holes.

From a very young age I was questioning the point of toiling hard for studies. I wasnt really hooked on to it not that in im lazy i dont want to study way.

It just felt boring and it was something that took the joy away from me
Some people enjoy the search.
Some hermits find meaning in isolation.
Most find meaning in impact on people since this is evo-favored through helping kin.

Some user on here on a different thread said something like, "In The Human Predicament, philosopher David Benatar defines meaning in terms of impact on others. Both perspectives link meaning to other people. In other words, meaning can't be found in isolation."
 
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lamargue

lamargue

sleepwalker
Jun 5, 2024
464
the rules of the game dictate that we are consigned to the values of the communities we associate with. this means that it is natural to inherit ideas of friendship and cooperation from the values of the society at large, a fact which is found in the whole gamut of social networks. it's not an entirely bad thing, either. increasing your social network means expanding the resources available to you, thereby allowing you to extricate value (wants) from the number of weighted connections you hold.
accordingly, you have to work to provide utility as well. it's transactional, but it's not always material. trying to fulfill wants that are functionally independent from the wants inherited from the natural order forms the general desiderata of most individuals; this way, we really don't have to become utilitarian in order to treat relationships in a utilitarian manner, since we are giving importance to desires which may be independent of material conditions, rather than the emphasis of those conditions giving rise to value.
and independent wants aren't overpowering. dependent wants (those ideas inherited from the natural order) are prior to any dependent want that may arise, at least in most individuals who are seeking to build relationships. happiness as a construct is just a mutually agreed upon state of affairs, inherited from certain habits of reasoning from authority. relationships are something that i imagine would make me happy, even if i've never been in one to begin with. happiness requires that a community denies the negation of the conditional, and consequently betraying this condition negatively impacts the community. subcommunities are then formed from when the distinction between ideals is made, such as any group of individuals denying the value of normative pleasure and instead favouring their own; you could go as far to say that hypergamous relationships are subcommunities in their own right.
 
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cowboypants

cowboypants

From milkyway
May 7, 2024
360
No offense but I disagree with you completely. Maybe solitude isn't for everyone, but personally, some of my greatest accomplishments and most enjoyable days have been spent alone. Not all, but a good portion of them. I have often found myself being made or broken by others over the course of my life. People can be finicky and unreliable, but in the end, you will always have yourself, and being alone gives you an opportunity to slip into this almost zen state, where the opinions of others do not matter, and you are free to do what you want to do, love what you love, feel the way you feel. Being alone can offer you stability because it takes away the variable of human unpredictability. Maybe I mean nothing to anyone, maybe life will always be difficult, but I can find happiness in the things that mean everything to me. I could draw myself a picture or watch a great show and feel happy about that, independent from other people. Maybe I contribute nothing to this world, but when I am by myself, there is no one it will matter to. What matters most in life is what you think of it, because you're the only one with the ability to experience your life. I'm not trying to say you should isolate yourself like I do, but it's extremely valuable not to define yourself by your relationships. It's good to look past a common consensus of "purpose", and to craft your own purpose.
I am alone for most of the day like close to 20 hours. It has been a really lonely existence. I slip only to psychotic state now and then, when I reach zen state its likely not a good thing. Second is not wanting to do anything in life for like a job I'm not sure when it started. As i have trouble at even basic stuff like taking care of myself takes much of my energy so prolly it didnt cross my mind.

it's extremely valuable not to define yourself by your relationship
I agree with this, its just hard when u never had one in the first place. And we humans are social creatures. I prolly wouldnt have made it this far in the animal kingdom like in the wild. Thanks for ur view
I don't believe people are naturally loaners and hermits. I think that being a loner, at an individual level is a psychological failure and at a social level, a policy failure. Everyone wants connections to some extent and every time you hear about people who don't its because they lost their wife in war or whatever and want to go live out in the mountains. It's always a response to trauma or some shit.
Its a lot more complicated than that. You seem to be simplifying it and maybe dismissive. Its not always a trauma response there are many other factors ex: social anxiety, Autism, years of abuse manifesting into mental disorders, genetically herited. Which cant be easily treated cause no one can read our mind so you have to be good at telling whats happening. That itself takes some maturity and experience.

Then theres people rubbing off mental issues as nothing. Repeated rejections failures in relationships, friendships. Getting mocked by peers for being different.

Psychiatric medicines have ton of side effects, if you are off the meds you cant be stable

This is not putting myself into a label but this is an invisible chain that holds many of us down. Perhaps society doesnt give us room to thrive. Its like a prisoner in your own body where you can see the ship sinking but you cant do anything and you are the captain so
 
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DefinitelyReady

DefinitelyReady

*perpetually annoyed*
Mar 14, 2024
1,124
I don't believe people are naturally loaners and hermits. I think that being a loner, at an individual level is a psychological failure and at a social level, a policy failure. Everyone wants connections to some extent and every time you hear about people who don't its because they lost their wife in war or whatever and want to go live out in the mountains. It's always a response to trauma or some shit. In reality people are literally biologically designed to be varying levels of social. I'm not saying everyone needs to go to a dance club every night or whatever. I don't want people normalize the weird blend of social enmity and anxiety that means people are hold up in their apartments not talking to anyone and they think they like being alone. No, they don't. Don't normalize the disease and rather than critique your surroundings saying you're fine. A lot of people don't like the trouble and anxiety of forming new relationships. Its coping. We're all born alone and we die alone but you get to fill the intermediary period.
If you genuinely didn't like being around other people, you wouldn't be on this forum, this is a form of social interaction. You're talking to other users. You clearly care at some level about the ability to engage socially with others. This immediate interactivity, this community - a proper community it is not. But it is something. You die eventually. You don't want to do something difficult in the meantime? Most people who call themselves loners are losers. People who have accepted, internalized and identified with the prospect being alone and away from other people are usually not very well adjusted. There's nothing innate about this. There's nothing innately making you like that. You can improve but you have to try. Nothing in life comes easy.
You dislike some elements of being social publicly because they tend to be concurrent with sounds and lights but you're not opposed to socializing element of it. It just means the enjoyment of socializing is conditional but it doesn't mean you don't like it. People essentialize too much.

Everyone wants alone time to recharge. Maybe just a little more tolerance for loud noise or more social energy. People love self categorizing and putting themselves into little boxes to help explain way the way that they are. They have to stop doing that, it doesn't help. It doesn't make you a whole person. You're giving yourself an excuse to write off certain elements of your identity. "I'm not that kind of person." it doesn't matter what kind of person you are what matters is what you want to do. Stop putting yourself into boxes and categorizing yourself. You're not "a loner," you're someone currently enjoying alone time. You're not an "ENTP" or whatever. You're someone who can memorize anime OP's. Stop obsessing any lines you can build around your character that can determine you're capable of doing X or Y.

Some people enjoy the search.
Some hermits find meaning in isolation.
Most find meaning in impact on people since this is evo-favored through helping kin.

Some user on here on a different thread said something like, "In The Human Predicament, philosopher David Benatar defines meaning in terms of impact on others. Both perspectives link meaning to other people. In other words, meaning can't be found in isolation."
"Teacher, teacher!" -Shirley Temple

I wonder if you were nursing an old-fashioned or something when you wrote this🤔🧐
It's a little off compared to your normal stuff😄
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,789
I'll try something.

@cowboypants if cows were to wear pants...

1724079108586
The objective answer is B. The answer will always be B. Anyone who says otherwise is a disgusting psychopathic heathen who deserves to burn in the deepest pits of hell.

1724754967720
 
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pain6batch9

pain6batch9

Chronic
Aug 25, 2024
184
We were told by those who wanted a new economy that there is no such thing as society. We were to be individuals. The whole model of our economy changed and we lived by a new code, were the individual was the highest ideal and that our own individual happiness and success was the ultimate goal. It started in 1971. They were called neo-conservatives. This is the new economic model we were all told to live by. What we left behind was a world of 'society' as Keynes described at Bretton Woods in 1944. This new economy spread to Europe and Asia too, right across the modern world.

So what is the individual, as described by Ayn Rand? Are we all to be Randian heroes? Does our life have meaning if we detach ourselves from other people?

Frustratingly, the statement is both true and false. First, emotional connection. Emotional connection to other humans is important for some. Others do not value the emotional connection quite so much. Some humans are happy being alone and do not need to connect with others, see no inherent positive outcomes sharing an emotional bond with another. Those are emotional non-conformists. Contrary to what society tells us, there is no requirement as such to connect on an emotional level. So, this emotional connection is very much an individual aspect of our psyche, not a requirement of how we should behave.

Second, is the economic question. As has been said, if you choose not to contribute to the greater economy, does that invalidate your existence? No, of course not. Because there are ways to contribute to society, let's call it civilisation, that do not require the mindless gathering of wealth. Artists, writers (like me), carers, philosophers, teachers, inventors, all contribute to civilisation without necessarily contributing vast amounts of money to the economy. And civilisation has no right to ask that of the individual. But even if you live on welfare, and create art, or if your partner earns the money, and you look after Grandad, you are still contributing to the running of civilisation at its most basic level. You still buy stuff. The economy still circulates.

But after all this, we must ask ourselves, does our life have meaning? To this I ask in return, who said it had to? This is something I always struggle with and I suspect I'm not alone. We are all searching for meaning in this world, to some degree. I'm working on getting my book written, eventually published. I have ideas about the role of the individual in our civilisation I want to explore and if even one person buys the book, my life would have some meaning in the mass. But I don't think it has to. I don't think anyone should be forced to do what they consider to be contrary to their ethics or beliefs.

In the end, nobody is going to give meaning to your life other than you, yourself. You don't have to contribute emotionally or economically to civilisation in order to find that meaning. But however you go about your journey, as long as you do it in a way that is the least harmful to the mass, all civilisation can do is wish you luck.
 
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GuessWhosBack

GuessWhosBack

The sun rises to insult me.
Jul 15, 2024
466
The objective answer is B. The answer will always be B. Anyone who says otherwise is a disgusting psychopathic heathen who deserves to burn in the deepest pits of hell.

View attachment 148745
It is my opinion that cows should have freedom of expression. They should be given constitutional protection to be able to wear whatever they want, however they want.
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,789
It is my opinion that cows should have freedom of expression. They should be given constitutional protection to be able to wear whatever they want, however they want.
Fine, they should have the freedom to express themselves. But I still plan on bullying them for their fashion faux pas.
 
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mrnob0dy

mrnob0dy

Member
Aug 27, 2024
12
It is.
Especially without emotional connections.
I'm in a state where I can't form any and if I choose against my own belief to form one, it'll always be based on a lie so it's never really an emotional connection anyway.
 
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Lady Laudanum

Lady Laudanum

Adrenaline junkie
May 9, 2024
690
The objective answer is B. The answer will always be B. Anyone who says otherwise is a disgusting psychopathic heathen who deserves to burn in the deepest pits of hell.

View attachment 148745
No it's A. I'll gladly burn in hell if it means I don't spend the afterlife with motherfuckers who think it's B.
 
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GuessWhosBack

GuessWhosBack

The sun rises to insult me.
Jul 15, 2024
466
No it's A. I'll gladly burn in hell if it means I don't spend the afterlife with motherfuckers who think it's B.
You're a hamburger type girl, she's a hotdog type girl.

I don't know what the fuck I'm saying.
 

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