Venting it depresses me how misandry is so normalized.

[rs929]

I love how nobody gives a shit about symphatizing with OP that said the situation depresses him. You all need to invalidate him and insist that women have it worse. And you also make some room to be funny and do a circle jerk about it. I think some of you are despicable people.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I guess my take is this:

Is misandry a thing? Yes, but not in the way incels and the like claim

Is it systemic/institutionalized? No, definitely not.

Does it actually harm men? It can.

Does it usually harm non-cis/queer men more though? YES.

Is it comparable to misogyny statistical harm-wise?
No, but only because trans men aren't statistically common. If we were, it absolutely would be.

I have had trans friends be kicked out of spaces for trauma survivors after they transitioned, just because they identify as men now. These are trans men who are victims of gender-based violence, but because we don't identify as that gender, we are ignored.

So, basically... transmisandry is the most harmful type of misandry. The issue is that traditional misandry still feeds into transmisandry since society doesn't really understand gender like at all.

 

[iamanavalanche]

well being raped 150x and almost sex trafficked and SA in the most gruesome ways possible for most of my life by men depresses me too lol

I love how nobody gives a shit about symphatizing with OP that said the situation depresses him. You all need to invalidate him and insist that women have it worse. And you also make some room to be funny and do a circle jerk about it. I think some of you are despicable people.

 

[U. A.]

I love how nobody gives a shit about symphatizing with OP that said the situation depresses him. You all need to invalidate him and insist that women have it worse. And you also make some room to be funny and do a circle jerk about it. I think some of you are despicable people.

Dude, wake up. The problem is (non-trans) men continuing to center themselves in an issue that proportionally does not fucking require their centering. OP couches in the point at the end that

my point is, nor misogyny nor misandry are acceptable things under any terms, and anyone who follows or practices any of them should feel completely ashamed.

which itself is valid, but that's not what the rest of the entire rant is about. It talks about how misandry is so terrible and online man haiting and blah blah; all of this on a website that was founded by fucking incels who also founded a horrific incel forum where women cannot join and members talk about how much they want to beat and rape and murder women.

Since you're apparently 13 can we just grab the megaphone for a sec, ok great thanks:

OTHER PEOPLE BEING HARMED DOES NOT TAKE AWAY THE VALIDITY OF YOUR EXPERIENCES OF HARM OK​

Jesus fucking christ. You DON'T have to invalidate others to be validated fyi.
While we're at it, I would tell you to stop ignoring @iamanavalanche (but why would you pay attention to a woman) and maybe pay some mind to the insights of @NormallyNeurotic but you probably won't do that either.

 

[alwayspissedoff]

I started this as a vent post, and god how has it scaled. I expected it, but not like this.

I thought this forum was by suicidal people and for suicidal people. A safe space for people struggling. A space for people to be able to share how they feel, no matter what situation they're in, and receive comfort.
I even said that, if anyone wanted to give an answer, to do it respectfully since this is a controverted topic.

And know I see people making fun of this situation and minimizing the others' feelings because ''I/they have it worse''.


I know women have struggled a lot throughout all of history thanks to awful men and a society that has been male-centered for as long as human civilizations exist, and they women DO still struggle. I was not minimizing nor saying that's not true. I just wanted to say that me, being a male who has and would never do anything bad to a woman or any person really, am personally saddened that we get hate by people who generalize men and categorize us all as 'bad', and that it is a normalized, accepted and even endorsed behaviour by many people.

I'm sorry for the people here that got offended and thought ''hey, I have it worse'', but I don't think some of the behaviour here was okay.

I'm just dissapointed.

 

[martyrdom]

I know women have struggled a lot throughout all of history thanks to awful men and a society that has been male-centered for as long as human civilizations exist, and they women DO still struggle. I was not minimizing nor saying that's not true. I just wanted to say that me, being a male who has and would never do anything bad to a woman or any person really, am personally saddened that we get hate by people who generalize men and categorize us all as 'bad', and that it is a normalized, accepted and even endorsed behaviour by many people.

The women who disparage men are not talking about you, if you "would never do anything bad to a woman". Stand by them instead of taking it personally and it becomes a non-issue. You also expect empathy about this, but do not extend the same empathy to women or try to understand *why* a lot of them hate, distrust, make fun of or avoid men. That would also make it a non-issue.

 

[rs929]

The mistake from OP is saying that misandry is normalized and expect it to be different here.

 

[martyrdom]

The mistake from OP is saying that misandry is normalized and expect it to be different here.

Case in point: "misandry" is people saying words online.

 

[rs929]

Case in point: "misandry" is people saying words online.

Yeah keep making fun of suicidal people.

 

[martyrdom]

Yeah keep making fun of suicidal people.

Brother we're all suicidal here, you don't get to victimize yourself with that after saying women aren't oppressed straight to the face of a sexual assault survivor.

 

[U. A.]

I started this as a vent post, and god how has it scaled. I expected it, but not like this.

I thought this forum was by suicidal people and for suicidal people. A safe space for people struggling. A space for people to be able to share how they feel, no matter what situation they're in, and receive comfort.
I even said that, if anyone wanted to give an answer, to do it respectfully since this is a controverted topic.

And know I see people making fun of this situation and minimizing the others' feelings because ''I/they have it worse''.


I know women have struggled a lot throughout all of history thanks to awful men and a society that has been male-centered for as long as human civilizations exist, and they women DO still struggle. I was not minimizing nor saying that's not true. I just wanted to say that me, being a male who has and would never do anything bad to a woman or any person really, am personally saddened that we get hate by people who generalize men and categorize us all as 'bad', and that it is a normalized, accepted and even endorsed behaviour by many people.

I'm sorry for the people here that got offended and thought ''hey, I have it worse'', but I don't think some of the behaviour here was okay.

I'm just dissapointed.

Sorry bud but "safe spaces" that are made up of hundreds of strangers online who you don't know at all is an internally incompatible concept. I don't know you at all but I get a sense. You can't just post whatever the hell you want and expect it to be fine and dandy. If you're so clued into the misery of living as a woman, why has it evidently still not occurred to you that - oh I dunno - women who have been fucked over in the ways you yourself give examples of might have some ruffled feathers at a post like this? It's not an oppression olympics but let's not kid ourselves: there is a massive discrepancy between theoretical Exhibit A: "my life sucks because even though I'm a super good guy I can't get a girlfriend cause of misandry" and Exhibit B: "my life sucks because I've been sexually assaulted over a hundred fucking times cause of misogyny".
Like what

 

[rs929]

Brother we're all suicidal here, you don't get to victimize yourself with that after saying women aren't oppressed straight to the face of a sexual assault survivor.

This is a strawman fallacy and an appeal to emotion. I was sexually abused by my mother, and I didn't weaponize that as an argument. Men are raped and sexually abused as well, we could say men are being opressed too.
You ask OP for empathy but you showed no empathy at all for him, just wanted to show you're "right"

 

[alwayspissedoff]

This is a strawman fallacy and an appeal to emotion. I was sexually abused by my mother, and I didn't weaponize that as an argument. Men are raped and sexually abused as well, we could say men are being opressed too.
You ask OP for empathy but you showed no empathy at all for him, just wanted to show you're "right"

I'm sorry to hear about that. I myself have thankfully never been sexually abused, but I know it must be a burden.
It amazes me how people here that were abused can't sympathize with other people who were also abused, just because they are a man.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

This is a strawman fallacy and an appeal to emotion. I was sexually abused by my mother, and I didn't weaponize that as an argument. Men are raped and sexually abused as well, we could say men are being opressed too.
You ask OP for empathy but you showed no empathy at all for him, just wanted to show you're "right"
I can't say what I think of you, because I would get banned, but be sure I won't cry when I read your goodbye thread

Me when I wish death of someone for not agreeing with me? Holy shit?

Also, men get SA'd too, true. You want to know who tend to be the first to make a joke about it? Other men.

Not all men, but the normalization of the patriarchy does make it a more chronic issues with cis men. Statistically women & AFABs are more likely to be raped due to the sexualization and dehumanizaton of us as a whole. Stuff that is left over from when we were all basically legalized sex slaves.

I'm sorry to hear about that. I myself have thankfully never been sexually abused, but I know it must be a burden.
It amazes me how people here that were abused can't sympathize with other people who were also abused, just because they are a man.

No one here said they didn't sympathize with him as a survivor. Unless I missed it before, he just revealed his victim status. You were the first to respond. None of us knew.

I felt sympathy for your emotional reaction to misandry before, but this reply makes it clear that this vent wasn't made in good faith.

 

[Dejected 55]

Whenever a woman starts a thread hating all men or stating men make her feel some way or how men are oppressive or whatever... If anyone, male or female, dares post in that thread how men can be subject to mistreatment too... women lost their shit attacking whoever intruded on "their" thread to even mention that men suffer sometimes too.

So... color me un-surprised when someone starts a thread to specifically talk about misandry... you know, not intruding on a misogyny thread... like we are told not to do... someone starts a misandry thread to talk about that... and of course the people who say "stay out of my misogyny threads" come over to harass this thread that was not at all bashing women or saying they don't suffer... but was merely trying to create a space to talk about misandry without intruding on a misogyny thread.

This is why we can't have nice things.

People have to come in and say "my problem is worse than your problem so you should suck it up and take your suffering because my suffering is worse and also fuck men because all men hurt all women all the time."

How about people in general suck... most people don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves... and its evident whenever anyone posts a thread to complain about something in their life and gets piled on by all the people determined to say "fuck you because my problem is worse than yours."

Misogyny being a real thing and being something long not addressed doesn't make it OK to leverage misandry and defend that.

Punish people who actually do bad shit to others. Stop lumping all people of one gender, color, nationality, etc. together just because it's easy.

I also know I'm not seeing a lot of posts in this thread, as evidenced by people quoting people I have previously blocked for just this kind of stuff. I don't know which ones of people I've previously blocked are guilty of harassing the OP and others but color me more un-surprised if it is people I've already blocked for doing this sort of thing repeatedly in the past.

 

[Chairbed3]

That doesn't excuse Misandry as not all men rape and kill women. Also, women can do a lot more than ignore men they don't like, they can cause a lot of social, emotional, and legal damage.

At the end of the day, no sex is morally superior, so no one even attempt to go there.

Not all men rape and kill women, but all men benefit from it. A man can freely walk on the streets because of his fellow community members who rape and instill fear in women.

When men commit crime on women, the goal is to instill fear in ALL women, which is the reason why rape is considered as a weapon. The opposite is not true. Women don't commit crime to instill fear in men and oppress them.

 

[alwayspissedoff]

Me when I wish death of someone for not agreeing with me? Holy shit?

Also, men get SA'd to, true. You want to know who tend to be the first to make a joke about it? Other men.

Not all men, but the normalization of the patriarchy does make it a more chronic issues with cis men. Statistically women/
& AFABs are more likely to be raped due to the sexualization and dehumanizaton of us as a whole. Stuff that is left over from when we were all basically legalized sex slaves.


No one here said they didn't sympathize with him as a survivor. Unless I missed it before, he just revealed his victim status. You were the first to respond. None of us knew.

I felt sympathy for your emotional reaction to misandry before, but this reply makes it clear that this vent wasn't made in good faith.

He said he had a narcissistic mother, and while that doesn't imply abuse at all and is not comparable, no one showed sympathy for him then, and no one besides me has for now.

And I'm sorry if I don't realize but why would my vent not be in good faith because of this?

 

[rs929]

Me when I wish death of someone for not agreeing with me? Holy shit?.

Nah I didn't say I wish it, just that I wouldn't care. But I went too far. Maybe he is a good guy, I just think he was an a**hole in this particular thread. So sorry about that

 

[alwayspissedoff]

Sorry bud but "safe spaces" that are made up of hundreds of strangers online who you don't know at all is an internally incompatible concept. I don't know you at all but I get a sense. You can't just post whatever the hell you want and expect it to be fine and dandy. If you're so clued into the misery of living as a woman, why has it evidently still not occurred to you that - oh I dunno - women who have been fucked over in the ways you yourself give examples of might have some ruffled feathers at a post like this? It's not an oppression olympics but let's not kid ourselves: there is a massive discrepancy between theoretical Exhibit A: "my life sucks because even though I'm a super good guy I can't get a girlfriend cause of misandry" and Exhibit B: "my life sucks because I've been sexually assaulted over a hundred fucking times cause of misogyny".
Like what

Sorry but you contribute to making forums like this a bad place overall. With your lack of empathy you really shouldn't be in a place aimed for giving support to struggling people.


You know, this website gets a lot of hate from people saying it's pro-suicide and that it contributes to all of the thousands of suicides that happen yearly all around the world. I'm sure this site has as well saved some people recover and live a good life after considering suicide, because of the support environment it provides. The people that give this support are not a problem imo.

Sorry but with yours and some other's behaviours, you are very probably the ones that the people that hate on this forum refer to as despicable people.

 

[U. A.]

 

[Dejected 55]

I resisted using it when I first signed on to this site... but the "ignore" feature has become necessary increasingly over time for certain people who just keep popping up and piling on.

There are too many people in the world who think making things better for themselves only happens at the expense of making things worse for someone else... and they don't even care if the person they make things worse for has ever done anything to earn the punishment.

Men hurt by women want to hurt all women... Women hurt by men want to hurt all men... and nothing gets better for anyone with this kind of thinking. And we can't even have civil discussions about it.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

He said he had a narcissistic mother, and while that doesn't imply abuse at all and is not comparable, no one showed sympathy for him then, and no one besides me has for now.

And I'm sorry if I don't realize but why would my vent not be in good faith because of this?

He said "wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums." Considering how he used the word "our," he very well could have meant men as a whole having "narcissistic" mothers, not necessarily himself.

Your vent is very clearly not in good faith because the moment you got the chance, you jumped to support a misogynist's trauma, grasping at straws and claiming that we do not feel sympathy for him, when in reality we never had a chance to, as he didn't say he was a victim.

Yes, I did call him a misogynist. This measage makes that very clear.
This is the guy you are defending:

The systemic institutionalized structure you call "patriarchy" just doesn't exist in the west. You haven't been opressed by men
for a long time. You can vote, wear whatever you want, work, be indepedent.

Forgive us for not being all kind and sympathetic for this guy when he revealed that he is a victim only after claiming that women are not oppressed in the west. It was a ploy for sympathy, and you fell hook line and sinker.

 

[martyrdom]

This is a strawman fallacy and an appeal to emotion. I was sexually abused by my mother, and I didn't weaponize that as an argument. Men are raped and sexually abused as well, we could say men are being opressed too.
You ask OP for empathy but you showed no empathy at all for him, just wanted to show you're "right"
I can't say what I think of you, because I would get banned, but be sure I won't cry when I read your goodbye thread

As opposed to "keep making fun of suicidal people", which is not an appeal to emotion?

Yes I know men are raped and I know it better than most other men (wonder who is the primary perpetrator of rape against men?). But we are not oppressed by women, end of. That's just reality. We are oppressed by other things and other classes of people (ie. the rich), but not by women. I empathise with your experience and would wish every ill on your mother just as I wish on every other sexual abuser, but you've been extremely misogynistic in this thread and no less vitriolic than the people you're accusing of cruelty.

 

[Lest3]

Because they (cis men) do, just not to the extent that most men do. The patriarchy is way more complex than people realize.

In many respects? Yeah, but thats trivial (Even women have benefited from the patriarchy in some respects i.e not being drafted). Overall? Not really. And I've yet to see a particularly compelling empirical case that would suggest otherwise.

 

[rs929]

He said "wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums." Considering how he used the word "our," he very well could have meant men as a whole having "narcissistic" mothers, not necessarily himself.

Your vent is very clearly not in good faith because the moment you got the chance, you jumped to support a misogynist's trauma, grasping at straws and claiming that we do not feel sympathy for him, when in reality we never had a chance to, as he didn't say he was a victim.

Yes, I did call him a misogynist. This measage makes that very clear.
This is the guy you are defending:

Forgive us for not being all kind and sympathetic for this guy when he revealed that he is a victim only after claiming that women are not oppressed in the west. It was a ploy for sympathy, and you fell hook line and sinker.

What I said is that there is not systematic institutionalized structure for men opression in the west. That doesn't mean that women doesn't suffer a lot, rape and murder, etc. I just don't believe in it as something in the structure of society, as a majority of men are opposed to violence towards women, and rape, sexual abuse and murder are not legal. Unlike the middle east, where patriarchy does exist
Just to clarify, I don't give a shit about what you think, but others might be distracted and believe I somehow hate women

 

[U. A.]

Shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet tbh

 

[alwayspissedoff]

He said "wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums." Considering how he used the word "our," he very well could have meant men as a whole having "narcissistic" mothers, not necessarily himself.

Your vent is very clearly not in good faith because the moment you got the chance, you jumped to support a misogynist's trauma, grasping at straws and claiming that we do not feel sympathy for him, when in reality we never had a chance to, as he didn't say he was a victim.

Yes, I did call him a misogynist. This measage makes that very clear.
This is the guy you are defending:

Forgive us for not being all kind and sympathetic for this guy when he revealed that he is a victim only after claiming that women are not oppressed in the west. It was a ploy for sympathy, and you fell hook line and sinker.

I never said I agreed with what he said there, and yeah I also didn't say anything about it. I didn't "defend him" per se, I just showed empathy for him.
And sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that misogynystic, since it doesn't actively show hate towards women, just states things. And while I think patriarchy still exists to some degree, I believe it's not as inhumane as it was for a long time, since compared to before, when women weren't even considered citizens, now they have more equity with men than ever, which is the goal after all.

Nevertheless, many people who posted here do publicly and actively hate men, which by definition makes them misandrics, which just proves the point of my post.
Maybe I'm wrong, but being in the side of misogynystic people is as bad as being on the side of misandric people. Both are despicable things.
:/

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

In many respects? Yeah, but thats trivial (Even women have benefited from the patriarchy in some respects i.e not being drafted). Overall? Not really. And I've yet to see a particularly compelling empirical case that would suggest otherwise.

Never having to worry about restriction and medical neglect of reproductive health is inherently a privilege on its own. The only men who do worry about this are trans men (as already stated) and some intersex men.

You may argue that not all women have to worry about that either, and that is true. But all women and AFABs deal with medical gaslighting and neglect to a higher extent. Unless a man is chronically ill, he doesn't have to dread all doctors.

 

[martyrdom]

What I said is that there is not systematic institutionalized structure for men opression in the west. That doesn't mean that women doesn't suffer a lot, rape and murder, etc. I just don't believe in it as something in the structure of society, as a majority of men are opposed to violence towards women, and rape, sexual abuse and murder are not legal. Unlike the middle east, where patriarchy does exist

Because femicide, rape and sexual abuse against women is famously always treated seriously and 99% of rapists don't walk free or get away with max 10 years, yeah, sure. Touch grass.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I never said I agreed with what he said there, and yeah I also didn't say anything about it. I didn't "defend him" per se, I just showed empathy for him.
And sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that misogynystic, since it doesn't actively show hate towards women, just states things. And while I think patriarchy still exists to some degree, I believe it's not as inhumane as it was for a long time, since compared to before, when women weren't even considered citizens, now they have more equity with men than ever, which is the goal after all.

Nevertheless, many people who posted here do publicly and actively hate men, which by definition makes them misandrics, which just proves the point of my post.
Maybe I'm wrong, but being in the side of misogynystic people is as bad as being on the side of misandric people. Both are despicable things.
:/

If you seriously think that saying women in the west are not oppressed isn't misogynistic, you are too far gone to be helped.

"Just stating things" can be misogynistic. If he said "all women are hormonal and crazy" that would also be "just stating" something.