Discussion Is it wrong to ctb if people depend on you?

[paperbaghat]

I know it really does depend on the situation, but this thought has always been in the back of my head.

is it wrong ctb when you have children? (i don't relate to this one, but I'm still curious)
if your parents need you when they get old?
what about friends who lean on you?

I'm mainly asking because in suicide prevention, people bring up how your loved ones will miss you and how you are needed. I know it is it supposed to make you feel wanted but I just feel trapped.
sorry if this is insensitive.

 

[Jadotine]

I dont think that its wrong no matter what anyone says
And I fucking hate when people bring this up to guilt trip you as if you hadn't thought about that already

I would feel very guilty if I had children, since I would have been the reason they have to live in this fucked up world. I would have at least forced myself to wait until they grow up older (18+) and can take care of themselves

As for parents and friends, well in my point of view I shouldn't owe them anything. Especially my parents since they're partly the reason my life is hell

Friends have been a deterrent but there comes a point where you just don't care anymore. I've lived for others all my life.
So I want to choose my wellbeing for once, and just let me be selfish for a while.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's a sliding scale. I think parents should be resonsible for their children. They chose to bring them here so, it's a responsibility they chose to take on. Whereas- the responsibility to be there for our parents was inflicted upon us- by them! Not enormously fair to begin with- I would tend to argue. The responsibility towards friends was most likely a mutual happening.

All of them affect us though and, our actions will affect them. Again, I suppose it's a balance. How much am I suffering and how much am I struggling to cope with my life vs. How much are they likely going to struggle if I suicide? The problem being that we are only able to predict their reaction.

I think we maybe can though- to some extent. I don't think my Dad would cope well at all with my suicide. So long as my situation doesn't severly worsen, I hope to hold on for him to go first.

With the rest of my family and friends- most are pretty estranged now- so, I hope that will help. But, I feel like I've already hung on enough for enough people- to be brutally honest. I've had ideation for 35 years! It's reaching the point I think I deserve to try and act in my own interests. I suspect they'll be sad but probably not as unhappy as I've been for years on end. Plus- many know I've had ideation from childhood so- it shouldn't come as a complete shock.

I probably have an unfair bias against parents who are considering leaving their children- because my Mum died when I was 3 (of natural causes.) I know first hand how hard it is to grow up without a parent. I think also, they reassure themselves with the hope the other partner will now be wealthy or remarry.

But, I also know that money doesn't fill the gap of a missing family member and that future marriages don't always work out so well for the children. My problems started for real when my Dad remarried.

Being anti-natilist, I probably have pretty extreme views but, I tend to feel like birthing a child here abandons them to the (often) cruel fate of the world. To then suicide is to abandon them the second time. They simply won't be around to try and ensure they have a good life or, to protect them.

There again, I realise that could be being massively unfair. If they truly are in a place where they can't parent or protect the child, then maybe I can see why they think the child may be better off without them. Which must feel awful.

I think it will be down to luck really either way whether their child will actually be ok but then- it was down to luck from the start. That's the problem (arguably the irresponsibility) of bringing life here to begin with as I see it. They're in a lottery now.

 

[fadedghost]

If you have kids under 25, it's wrong to ctb unless you are in extraordinary pain (like in agony after a car accident, with no hope of recovery, and pain meds provide little relief) or there is a lot of money so they will be taken care of. Sometimes, however, it's not possible for people to withstand the agony.

Kids don't have a choice to come into this world, so if you have them you should protect them and help them as best as you can.

Parents should not rely on children for things.

Friends are complicated and it's difficult. If you know your suicide is going to fuck up a best friend, it's good to time it so it won't be as damaging. Like committing suicide right before your best friend's final exams when they are struggling in school would be very wrong.

There's no easy way to deal with this for people who have the capacity to feel guilt. Someone is usually going to be hurt and no time is perfect.

i delayed my suicide for a long time because I was worried people would be hurt and then now, I actually have close to no one who would care, maybe 1 online friend would, but they would be able to get over it, we only chat online, but like generally, people have moved on from me and no one would care... And, that also upsets me! Like, maybe it would have been better if had killed myself back when there were people who would have been upset? :-/ None of this is easy.

 

[amor.dor]

I'll be honest — I think it would be wrong if the person had children, because no one is forced to have kids. What leads someone who sees the world as a terrible place and wishes to die to still bring a child into it? That sounds somewhat cruel, don't you think? Though I know most people have children out of pure instinct or because they believe they're doing something good.

In the case of friends and other family members who aren't dependents, it's less clearly wrong — it depends. If there are dependents involved, it's something that needs careful thought. Because in suicide, our own suffering ends, but the suffering of those left alive doesn't. Personally, if I were to take my own life, it would be to end the game of life and my own pain, not to add to someone else's… That's why it's necessary to prepare well, gradually distancing yourself from others.

 

[srilankanbeyotch]

I personally think those who have kids should wait until their kids can live/survive on their own otherwise it's selfish. BUT, if that person was SA'd and was forced to give birth... that would be a different conversation.

 

[paperbaghat]

Thanks for all the well-written replies. Reading all of them, I think the main consensus is that it is selfish to ctb if a person is very dependent on you (like a child) and/or it would cause immense suffering to others. (of course there are exceptions)

I guess another question I have is how do I know if my death will cause immense suffering? I am told that people would care if I died, but it doesn't feel like they care if I'm alive...

 

[SoulCage]

Is it wrong to ctb if people depend on you?

Many said that it is indeed very wrong when a parent (especially of young dependents) chooses ctb, and although I totally agree with that idea, I also want to point out that... It's not really choosing when one is dying on the inside. It's a sickness like cancer that can still kill you despite trying everything to stay alive. I know this take might be controversial, I really hope I am not making anyone upset. But think about it... You die because you can't accept this pain anymore.

I might say... That it would be a different story if you were already suffering from ideation before having kids (voluntarily) and there is no one else that can take over for you. Then I think it is very wrong - you should pressure yourself to support this new human 100%.

But I believe that not many share the same opinion (especially the "physical/mental pain is reason enough to end ones life - even with dependents) and therefore it's unlikely that your social circle will accept this idea.
That's why I am also still stuck here.

I guess another question I have is how do I know if my death will cause immense suffering? I am told that people would care if I died, but it doesn't feel like they care if I'm alive...

But yea, you asked an important question. How do we even know they will suffer. Is asking them also already a way to hurt them (because now they might be worried about you)?
It's impossible to know...
Even if they don't care about you now, they likely still feel this grief, because it's just an automatic response to knowing that you will never have any appearance in future memories. Death of someone else is close to thinking of one owns demise and for someone who doesn't want to die, this is very uncomfortable. They think about what they would lose and feel sad that you lost it.
That's at least my theory.

 

[paperbaghat]

I also want to point out that... It's not really choosing when one is dying on the inside. It's a sickness like cancer that can still kill you despite trying everything to stay alive. I know this take might be controversial, I really hope I am not making anyone upset. But think about it... You die because you can't accept this pain anymore.

I totally understand this point of view, mental illness can be just as fatal as physical illness. I've heard some people describe living with severe mental illness/psychological disturbance like being trapped in a burning skyscraper, and the only relief is to jump to their death.
No matter if their death was logical/morally sound or not, all those who have died by suicide deserve respect and empathy.

But yea, you asked an important question. How do we even know they will suffer. Is asking them also already a way to hurt them (because now they might be worried about you)?
It's impossible to know...

This is why i plan to exhaust all possible resources to try to improve my life before i ctb. I'll try to live until my little sister is an adult at least.

 

[overthrone]

I don't know if I'd consider it wrong, but there are definitely aspects you need to take into consideration before ctb
If you're a parent, you need to make sure your kids have somewhere to go if you're gone, like a reliable family member, an adoption system you know they'd be safe in, etc.
Same with parents who need you when they get old - you're not what they should rely on 100% in the first place. If your parents are old and do need you, then find a community (retirement or otherwise) where they'd be well cared for and safe.
When it comes to friends, there's not much I can say there. It'd be best if they didn't rely on you, and sometimes, you just have to accept that they're gonna have to go on without you, since it's not healthy for them to be relying on you in the first place.

 

[Malfunction]

I guess I look at it this way, I could die by any number of reasons at any time.

Death doesn't discriminate.

The end result and those affected remain the same regardless of how I die.

That said, If I had dependants, I'd probably want to protect them if I could.

 

[Realog11]

I know it really does depend on the situation, but this thought has always been in the back of my head.

is it wrong ctb when you have children? (i don't relate to this one, but I'm still curious)
if your parents need you when they get old?
what about friends who lean on you?

I'm mainly asking because in suicide prevention, people bring up how your loved ones will miss you and how you are needed. I know it is it supposed to make you feel wanted but I just feel trapped.
sorry if this is insensitive.

I don't know if it counts as my people depending on me but I do give her money each 2 weeks, I still want to ctb cause I hate my life

 

[deathisapanacea]

It's totally fine as long as you can provision enough money for your dependents.