Venting I feel like the world is being swallowed by transphobia

[RainAndSadness]

I don't see what this has to do with the topic of suicide. There are plenty of other places to rant about politics.

Discriminatory policies that affect the well-being of trans people have a direct correlation to the suicide rate of said group. For example, the US has waged war on access to transition for a long time now. There are countless studies that prove letting trans people transition as early as possible drastically decreases the suicide rate among trans people. So yeah, there is a direct correlation between anti-trans politics and the suicide rate of trans people.

And let me make one thing clear, if I see anyone question the validity of a venting thread like this ever again, there will be appropiate consequences.

 

[WaitingToGo]

I transitioned in the mid 1980's and there wasn't the hate there is now. It's awful some of the stuff I read. Mind you back then the internet was only just beginning so not so many people were aware of us. Thankfully I've not had any hate, abuse or violence directed at me only annoying kids in the street where I came out, so I can only sympathize with anyone who has to face this stress and abuse on a daily basis

 

[FadingFast2023]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

Believe it or not, there are people who hate being their assigned sex. Everyone who does have their own reasons.

 

[borderline-feline]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

Please go away. There is no agenda; I just wanna live my fucking life. If you're going to bring the exact thing I was venting about into this thread, then you're unwelcome.

 

[tary]

Hearing news about transphobic laws around the world makes me glad to live in Finland, where there's no real opposition to trans rights. The government recently passed a law that allows trans people to change their legal gender without needing a diagnosis or any trans treatment.
It doesn't mean that much for me, because I'm not openly trans anymore and just live as a man on estrogen. But I'm glad for all the other trans people. I'll sadly probably CTB before I'll get to a situation where I could try to live as MtF again.

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

Yeah because it's the far left driving hate and definitely not the far right. Only one side wants to literally ban the other from existing.

 

[user_name_here]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end

....

*Opens golden envelope*

"And the winner for the most dramatic BS post on the forum goes to "....

"FADINGFAST!"

 

[İnilerim]

In Germany, we will hopefully also soon have the ability to legally change gender/name on our birth certificate.

But it's just one part of the puzzle. Better access to gender affirming care is another that's not on the political radar yet unfortunately.

 

[Ernest1964]

It's not an agenda. It's a medical condition.

Yes, I agree that it is a medical condition, a mental health condition. The problem is that the trans people want the rest of the planet to accept that their mental health condition is "normal"or acceptable and the rest of the world is unwilling to go along with that concept. That is the reality.

 

[PoisonousPotato]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

iirc ctb attempts rates are about 30% in the trans community. there's a lot of trans ppl on this site, and a lot of them vent about not being accepted as they want to live. their life is ruined by politics, as they just wish to have a peaceful life.

you have the truth right under your bigot nose, and you still stick to your low empathy political bs.

who is political here?

 

[borderline-feline]

Yes, I agree that it is a medical condition, a mental health condition. The problem is that the trans people want the rest of the planet to accept that their mental health condition is "normal"or acceptable and the rest of the world is unwilling to go along with that concept. That is the reality.

It's not a mental health condition; it's a neurodevelopmental disorder. What you're saying is like claiming that autistic people asking for basic accommodations want the rest of the planet to "accept that their mental health condition is 'normal' or acceptable".

Please take your bigotry elsewhere.

P.S. You do realize that the administrator of this site is a trans woman, right? Are you saying that she's delusional?

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Yes, I agree that it is a medical condition, a mental health condition. The problem is that the trans people want the rest of the planet to accept that their mental health condition is "normal"or acceptable and the rest of the world is unwilling to go along with that concept. That is the reality.

It's not even a mental health condition. Some gender dysphoric people hate their assigned sex because of the sexual characteristics and anatomy of their assigned sex. It isn't always a misaligned gender problem.

Let them be.

 

[Dot]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

Am gussng tht slf hve Cn sme of th/ sme 'end-stges of sciety' claims tht u hve

& Pls elbor8 xactly wht 'trns agena' mns -- tht jst snds lke anothr Daily Wire commntry phrse

Wht xactly *is* th/ 'trns agnda'

All tht am C-ing = a grp of ppl advoc8tng 2 b visble & integr8td membrs of sciety & perhps sme corpr8 compnies eithr takng tht caus as marktng opprtunties 2 mke mre $$$ frm th/ increasd visblty or fr politcl figre-hds 2 us tht caus 2 emotnlly rile up thr own votr-bases

If u wn2 identfy n.e 'agenda' thn jst lk fr hw othr ppl wh/ r nt dirctly involvd wth or investd in tht caus r lookng 2 beneft frm it thmselvs eithr financlly or politclly -- & tht wll b happnng on bth sdes of th/ politcl spectrm

Yes, I agree that it is a medical condition, a mental health condition. The problem is that the trans people want the rest of the planet to accept that their mental health condition is "normal"or acceptable and the rest of the world is unwilling to go along with that concept. That is the reality.

Pls xplain wht = th/ actul issu wth normlisng tht trns ppl xist & wantng 2 b actve & visble membrs of sciety

B creful insinu8tng tht trns ppl r nt 'accptble' -- ths jst shws a lack of undrstndng abt hw tru dysphria wrks -- whethr tht lack of undrstndng on ur prt = intentl or nt = smethng tht only u cn knw or act on

 

[earshurt]

OP, I find there's a small kernel of comfort to be found in the fact that the recent wave of transphobia is a top-down social phenomenon. Conservative politicians are the ones pushing this transphobic narrative - and while they unfortunately have control of the laws of the land in some places, many everyday people see this transphobic nonsense for what it is.

I am truly sorry you have to endure this.

 

[Ernest1964]

Am gussng tht slf hve Cn sme of th/ sme 'end-stges of sciety' claims tht u hve

& Pls elbor8 xactly wht 'trns agena' mns -- tht jst snds lke anothr Daily Wire commntry phrse

Wht xactly *is* th/ 'trns agnda'

All tht am C-ing = a grp of ppl advoc8tng 2 b visble & integr8td membrs of sciety & perhps sme corpr8 compnies eithr takng tht caus as marktng opprtunties 2 mke mre $$$ frm th/ increasd visblty or fr politcl figre-hds 2 us tht caus 2 emotnlly rile up thr own votr-bases

If u wn2 identfy n.e 'agenda' thn jst lk fr hw othr ppl wh/ r nt dirctly involvd wth or investd in tht caus r lookng 2 beneft frm it thmselvs eithr financlly or politclly -- & tht wll b happnng on bth sdes of th/ politcl spectrm



Pls xplain wht = th/ actul issu wth normlisng tht trns ppl xist & wantng 2 b actve & visble membrs of sciety

B creful insinu8tng tht trns ppl r nt 'accptble' -- ths jst shws a lack of undrstndng abt hw tru dysphria wrks -- whethr tht lack of undrstndng on ur prt = intentl or nt = smethng tht only u cn knw or act on

Sorry, but I do not read any posts by Dot. I can't decipher what this person has written and I don't usually care to bother... and it is a bother.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Sorry, but I do not read any posts by Dot. I can't decipher what this person has written and I don't usually care to bother.

That sounds more like an issue with you being ignorant. They are a mod on this site so if you don't listen them when they are telling you not to break rules and you get banned for it, that will be due to your incompetence and nothing else.

 

[borderline-feline]

Sorry, but I do not read any posts by Dot. I can't decipher what this person has written and I don't usually care to bother... and it is a bother.

I'll translate what Dot said so that you have no excuse.

"Please explain what is the actual issue with normalizing that trans people exist & wanting to be active & visible members of society.

Be careful insinuating that trans people are not 'acceptable' -- this just shows a lack of understanding about how true dysphoria works -- whether that lack of understanding on your part is intentional or not is something that only you can know or act on."


It's not that hard to understand Dot, and they're a very intelligent person. I'm at the point where my brain just automatically reads what they type as if it were no different from any other message because I put in the effort to understand them. That effort is incredibly important for any human interaction.

 

[NoLoveNoHope]

I'm so sorry about everyone turning your own struggles into a political debate. It only serves to worsen your problem and you shouldn't need to defend your feelings and rights when you're obviously distressed.

SanctionedSuicide tries to be just that: A place to share and listen, to understand and empathize, to help and support. It is not the forum what makes this possible; it is the people in it. The people who join every day to share their feelings, or to help others feel understood, or to just nod in silence and provide emotional support.

Don't turn this thread into a political debate, this is not the place for that. This is a forum about suicide, which also relates to trans issues as they correlate to the rate of suicide.

I don't care what your political views are, the OP was venting about being discriminated for being transgender. Do not invalidate her feelings with arguments against trans rights.

Sanctioned Suicide is a forum to de stigmatize and give those who feel like they can't share their problems anywhere else for whatever reason. We believe in self autonomy for suicide as this is a pro-choice forum, same should apply to our transgender members.

We all are struggling here and don't make someone feel worse here, it's designed to be a safe space without discrimination.

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth.

source

Can we just shut up and actually try and support each other? Sounds like family dinner with grandpa over again. (We don't talk about grandpa).

Sorry, but I do not read any posts by Dot. I can't decipher what this person has written and I don't usually care to bother... and it is a bother.

Hypnosis injury left self scared of self on deep level, to the point where I am scared of my own inner voice if I read back what I'm typing. Reducing letters changes how I read back in my head. I am unable to look at my own handwriting.

Translated Dot's about me for you. It's an injury causing this so please respect them. Calling them a bother is just disrespectful, they're helping to keep this forum running which I treasure and has helped me immensely.

Calling someone a bother for their injury isn't only hurtful to the person but other members of the forum who are insecure and we have a few of them.

Overall, 19.8% reported any disability. Results showed that people with disabilities were significantly more likely than those without disabilities to report suicidal ideation.

Source

 

[cgrtt.brns]

Is the suicide rate higher after transition surgery?

apologies if this is not the right place but i wanted to reply to your comment with my personal experience.

before i had top surgery and started hormones i was incredibly suicidal because of my gender dysphoria, and the difficulty of getting gender affirming care only made it worse as i believed it was impossible, and that i was stuck in a body that reminded me that no matter how i feel on the inside, the rest of the world would treat me the way they see me physically which filled me with so much burning hatred for myself that i felt physically sick and infuriated when i looked at my body.
now after having top surgery and starting hormones, im lucky that ive gotten to a point where people see me (mostly) physically as i feel internally, as well as my own image of myself aligning more physically and internally. this alleviated SO much gender dysphoria for me, and resulted in my suicidality caused by my gender dysphoria to plummet. of course, i still have other reasons to be suicidal that aren't related to gender dysphoria, and i never expected those problems to be "fixed" by surgeries or hormones because they're completely separate. however my overall suicidal thoughts have greatly decreased thanks to having access to gender affirming care.

of course, this is not the same for everyone. every body's experience with gender dysphoria, gender affirming care, and everything else is never the same as another's. i was lucky that i got the right kinds of treatment for me. but i feel like the same philosophy of individual autonomy that we hold here on ss in terms of suicide can and should be used when it comes to gender affirming care. at the end of the day, it is the individuals choice to do what they want with their body. some may regret it, but that's just life. humans make mistakes, we regret things we do. but who fucking cares? people get tattoos that they regret later in life, people get hair cuts they regret, people have breast implants that they later regret, it's all the same. if someone ends up getting a surgery that they regret so much that they want to end their life, that's their choice, and it was their choice to get the surgery to begin with.

sorry if i went off on a tangent, i hope what i said at least makes some sense lol.

Everywhere I look, I keep seeing it. Someone I used to respect because of her dedication to exposing a particular hoax just made a video where she used Dylan Mulvaney as a springboard to shitting on trans people. People are pushing for a 21st century take on the Mulford Act that targets trans people.

The UK is, well, it's the UK. The Tories are ruining everything as usual.

I'm fucking sick of all of it. There's so much hate toward people who just wanna do their own thing, people like me. I've even had to deal with being sexually harassed by a transphobe on this site (he left the site because he got in trouble for it though). If you take any of the shit that people are pushing about trans people and substituted in any other minority, then you'd be (rightfully) called a Nazi or a racist, but it's apparently socially acceptable to treat trans people as subhumans.

I just want the entire world to shut the fuck up. (maybe Yagami Light was right)

i totally feel what ur saying. i wish people could just shut their mouths instead of spewing hate at everyone that looks different to their idea of normal. i think the phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" should be plastered on every surface of the earth at this point lol.

 

[sweetandsanctioned]

I'm gonna be honest. That second paragraph was wholely unnecessary. Anyone who cares that much about sports that they have protect the "sanctity of women's sports" from trans women is a pathetic dumbass. It's a nonissue.

As for the bathroom thing, if a cis woman has an issue with sharing a bathroom with me, then she can hold it or go somewhere else. Sexual assault in public bathrooms is rare, and banning trans people from public bathrooms won't stop it from happening.

Radfems in general do harbor a lot of hate toward trans people. They view trans women as men (and they hate men) and view trans men as "brainwashed women who want to escape misogyny". You'd be surprised by how much of second wave feminism is rooted in transphobic ideology.

In some ways, things are better, but in others, things are worse. In the past, trans people were largely unseen, and that was better for trans people. Having this spotlight is why trans people have become a political prop to the right wing.

Every time there's a victory for trans people, we immediately go 2 steps back because of bigoted fearmongering. Trans people using public bathrooms was never an issue until conservatives made it an issue.

It's not just about pronouns. It's about hate crimes, it's about healthcare, and it's about the right to exist in public

Ok first of all.. to say that biologically born males competing in women's sports is a "non-issue" is completely intellectually dishonest and you don't even make an argument for it because you know you can't. Biologically born males and biologically born females are VERY different. It is not a right wing thing or a left wing thing, it's just a biological fact we can all see with our eyes. The left today are just willing to lie in and not practice rational thinking in order to be kind or not get attacked online. But a born male on estrogen for two years is nowhere near comparable to a biological women on estrogen her whole life because born males still have bigger skeletons, lungs etc. that give them an advantage. Obviously there will be the rare few men or women who are the exception but overall, this is the truth. If not we wouldn't have separate catagories in the first place.

Secondly, if assault in bathrooms are rare... Why are you so afraid to go into the mens bathroom then? Obviously there is some trans women who pass and can sneak past the radar but biological women who see obviously born males in their bathrooms want to be able to call it out but then the next step is they want to be in our sports, our prisons etc. For the same reason men and women's prisons are separate, born males without bottom surgery should not be in cis women's prisons.

You wouldnt say we are claiming all men are predatory if we say we don't want them in the womens bathroom or prison .. yet claim we are saying all trans women are predatory when we are not. The principle is the exact same and your arguments for it are completely illogical. Because it has to be. Otherwise no one would accept it.

There also is a real growing movement of ex trans men who mistakenly took hormones because they thought girls couldn't have short hair, like stereotypical guy things or just felt uncomfortable being sexualized as female. This is not every trans mans experience, however there is a real movement of genuine detransitioners and they should be listened to aswel .. but when they do, they can viciously attacked by trans activists. Radical feminists also see trans women as biologically born males with just so happens to be factually correct.

At the end of the day, you may be the opposite gender in your head but that does not mean you are the very same as the sex you wished to have been born as. You can take hormones, get surgery and fit socially to a degree and have the right to do what you want with your body but you absolutely do not have the right to expect people to deny biological reality to make you feel better. If you expect that, you will always be sorely disappointed in this life. It will not help you to be a strong person .. especially the people who will lie to you in order to be tolerant. Obviously (well.. hopefully) you know you are not the opposite sex. However what you don't seem to know is you are not entitled to all the rights of that sex or to infringe on women's long hard fought for rights but sadly, this generation only leads by their emotions, are shockingly irrational and will just downright refuse to accept the truth in order to appear tolerant or virtual signal which is all the Left do now. They use to be the party of science. Now they can't even say what a man and woman is.
I won't LIE to make you feel better like most of the other people on here will do to appear progressive and tolerant.

My first reply to you also wasn't political at all. I was simply trying to help you have a more balanced perspective and consider where both sides are coming from instead as automatically shutting people down as transphobic.

You are the one who made it political and have just demonstrated my point. But it's funny how that only ever works one way and if this site is really about helping people, then people should be able to speak their truth on both sides .. not lie to people and not accuse people with a different opinion as you transphobic.

It will genuinely not help you to go through your life.. believing everyone should agree and bow to your demands to be treated literally like the opposite sex. But if you wanna believe the sky is red and have everyone tell you the sky is red, then carry on believing the sky is red.

 

[borderline-feline]

it is the individuals choice to do what they want with their body. some may regret it, but that's just life. humans make mistakes, we regret things we do. but who fucking cares? people get tattoos that they regret later in life, people get hair cuts they regret, people have breast implants that they later regret, it's all the same. if someone ends up getting a surgery that they regret so much that they want to end their life, that's their choice, and it was their choice to get the surgery to begin with.

Exactly this! It's too often that people come to unsubstantiated conclusions upon detransitioning. They think that just because they weren't trans, that must mean that no one is. In reality, the fact that they weren't trans and detransitioned due to developing dysphoria is further proof of the importance of transitioning for trans people.

 

[borderline-feline]

Ok first of all.. to say that biologically born males competing in women's sports is a "non-issue" is completely intellectually dishonest and you don't even make an argument for it because you know you can't. Biologically born males and biologically born females are VERY different. It is not a right wing thing or a left wing thing, it's just a biological fact we can all see with our eyes. The left today are just willing to lie in and not practice rational thinking in order to be kind or not get attacked online. But a born male on estrogen for two years is nowhere near comparable to a biological women on estrogen her whole life because born males still have bigger skeletons, lungs etc. that give them an advantage. Obviously there will be the rare few men or women who are the exception but overall, this is the truth. If not we wouldn't have separate catagories in the first place.

Secondly, if assault in bathrooms are rare... Why are you so afraid to go into the mens bathroom then? Obviously there is some trans women who pass and can sneak past the radar but biological women who see obviously born males in their bathrooms want to be able to call it out but then the next step is they want to be in our sports, our prisons etc. For the same reason men and women's prisons are separate, born males without bottom surgery should not be in cis women's prisons.

You wouldnt say we are claiming all men are predatory if we say we don't want them in the womens bathroom or prison .. yet claim we are saying all trans women are predatory when we are not. The principle is the exact same and your arguments for it are completely illogical. Because it has to be. Otherwise no one would accept it.

There also is a real growing movement of ex trans men who mistakenly took hormones because they thought girls couldn't have short hair, like stereotypical guy things or just felt uncomfortable being sexualized as female. This is not every trans mans experience, however there is a real movement of genuine detransitioners and they should be listened to aswel .. but when they do, they can viciously attacked by trans activists. Radical feminists also see trans women as biologically born males with just so happens to be factually correct.

At the end of the day, you may be the opposite gender in your head but that does not mean you are the very same as the sex you wished to have been born as. You can take hormones, get surgery and fit socially to a degree and have the right to do what you want with your body but you absolutely do not have the right to expect people to deny biological reality to make you feel better. If you expect that, you will always be sorely disappointed in this life. It will not help you to be a strong person .. especially the people who will lie to you in order to be tolerant. Obviously (well.. hopefully) you know you are not the opposite sex. However what you don't seem to know is you are not entitled to all the rights of that sex or to infringe on women's long hard fought for rights but sadly, this generation only leads by their emotions, are shockingly irrational and will just downright refuse to accept the truth in order to appear tolerant or virtual signal which is all the Left do now. They use to be the party of science. Now they can't even say what a man and woman is.
I won't LIE to make you feel better like most of the other people on here will do to appear progressive and tolerant.

My first reply to you also wasn't political at all. I was simply trying to help you have a more balanced perspective and consider where both sides are coming from instead as automatically shutting people down as transphobic.

You are the one who made it political and have just demonstrated my point. But it's funny how that only ever works one way and if this site is really about helping people, then people should be able to speak their truth on both sides .. not lie to people and not accuse people with a different opinion as you transphobic.

It will genuinely not help you to go through your life.. believing everyone should agree and bow to your demands to be treated literally like the opposite sex. But if you wanna believe the sky is red and have everyone tell you the sky is red, then carry on believing the sky is red.

The sports thing is a non-issue because sports don't matter. It doesn't matter who is dominating in stupid games. Athletic associations should make the calls, not the government.

I belong in a women's bathroom because I'm a woman. I would get kicked out of a men's bathroom because even a blind man could see I don't belong there.

There's no such thing as "cis women prisons". Trans women don't belong in men's prisons, and if a trans woman who has had vaginoplasty has been sentenced to jail time, then she belongs in a women's prison, as she is visually indistinguishable from a cis woman.

The reason I'm not saying that you think all men are predatory is that prisons and bathrooms are segregated by gender. That's why men aren't allowed in women's bathrooms.

That next point is a problem of cis people thinking that they're trans. That's why most places require therapy and a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to start medically transitioning. Radical feminists prey on these people and groom them into bigots by telling them awful things. It's also not my problem if someone makes a decision that was wrong for them, because it has nothing to do with me.

I've never claimed to be exactly the same as a cis woman. I'm neurologically female, and my transition is correcting my primary and secondary sex characteristics to be as close to those of a biological female as medically possible.

My existence doesn't infringe on anyone's rights, and anyone who thinks that it does is a delusional idiot with a victim complex.

I didn't claim your initial reply to be political; I said that it was rude and unnecessary. All I did was correct things that you were wrong about, but we can always see what the administrator of this site thinks about your bullshit.

Please leave me alone. I'm just trying to exist.

 

[Rumi]

I'm fucking sick of all of it. There's so much hate toward people who just wanna do their own thing, people like me. I've even had to deal with being sexually harassed by a transphobe on this site (he left the site because he got in trouble for it though). If you take any of the shit that people are pushing about trans people and substituted in any other minority, then you'd be (rightfully) called a Nazi or a racist, but it's apparently socially acceptable to treat trans people as subhumans.

It remains the only acceptable prejudice; transgender people are a scapegoat for the general decline of society.

 

[Dot]

Ok first of all.. to say that biologically born males competing in women's sports is a "non-issue" is completely intellectually dishonest and you don't even make an argument for it because you know you can't. Biologically born males and biologically born females are VERY different. It is not a right wing thing or a left wing thing, it's just a biological fact we can all see with our eyes. The left today are just willing to lie in and not practice rational thinking in order to be kind or not get attacked online. But a born male on estrogen for two years is nowhere near comparable to a biological women on estrogen her whole life because born males still have bigger skeletons, lungs etc. that give them an advantage. Obviously there will be the rare few men or women who are the exception but overall, this is the truth. If not we wouldn't have separate catagories in the first place.

Secondly, if assault in bathrooms are rare... Why are you so afraid to go into the mens bathroom then? Obviously there is some trans women who pass and can sneak past the radar but biological women who see obviously born males in their bathrooms want to be able to call it out but then the next step is they want to be in our sports, our prisons etc. For the same reason men and women's prisons are separate, born males without bottom surgery should not be in cis women's prisons.

You wouldnt say we are claiming all men are predatory if we say we don't want them in the womens bathroom or prison .. yet claim we are saying all trans women are predatory when we are not. The principle is the exact same and your arguments for it are completely illogical. Because it has to be. Otherwise no one would accept it.

There also is a real growing movement of ex trans men who mistakenly took hormones because they thought girls couldn't have short hair, like stereotypical guy things or just felt uncomfortable being sexualized as female. This is not every trans mans experience, however there is a real movement of genuine detransitioners and they should be listened to aswel .. but when they do, they can viciously attacked by trans activists. Radical feminists also see trans women as biologically born males with just so happens to be factually correct.

At the end of the day, you may be the opposite gender in your head but that does not mean you are the very same as the sex you wished to have been born as. You can take hormones, get surgery and fit socially to a degree and have the right to do what you want with your body but you absolutely do not have the right to expect people to deny biological reality to make you feel better. If you expect that, you will always be sorely disappointed in this life. It will not help you to be a strong person .. especially the people who will lie to you in order to be tolerant. Obviously (well.. hopefully) you know you are not the opposite sex. However what you don't seem to know is you are not entitled to all the rights of that sex or to infringe on women's long hard fought for rights but sadly, this generation only leads by their emotions, are shockingly irrational and will just downright refuse to accept the truth in order to appear tolerant or virtual signal which is all the Left do now. They use to be the party of science. Now they can't even say what a man and woman is.
I won't LIE to make you feel better like most of the other people on here will do to appear progressive and tolerant.

My first reply to you also wasn't political at all. I was simply trying to help you have a more balanced perspective and consider where both sides are coming from instead as automatically shutting people down as transphobic.

You are the one who made it political and have just demonstrated my point. But it's funny how that only ever works one way and if this site is really about helping people, then people should be able to speak their truth on both sides .. not lie to people and not accuse people with a different opinion as you transphobic.

It will genuinely not help you to go through your life.. believing everyone should agree and bow to your demands to be treated literally like the opposite sex. But if you wanna believe the sky is red and have everyone tell you the sky is red, then carry on believing the sky is red.

Sme1 mght nd 2 trnsl8

U sy tht ppl wll us th/ wrd 'trnsphobc' jst 2 shut ppl dwn bt ur commnt = inherntly transphobc bcse u r usng wrds lke 'sneakng thru' in2 bathrms fr sme trnswomn as tho thy r tryn2 b dishonst wth smethng 2 hde & sayng tht u r 'lyng' 2 sme1' if u r acceptng tht persns gendr identty or 'xpectng ppl 2 bow 2 u' b/ wantng ppl 2 accpt thr gendr

Lyng 2 thm wld b agreeing tht thy r cis -- respectng thr identty of mle or femle once thy hve transitnd or r in th/ procss of transitnng jst shows basc awrenss of hw gendr dysphria wrks -- ur langug jst shws tht u beleve tht trns ppl r lyng or delusnl abt thr gendr & r actng entitld frm wantng certn rghts in sciety -- hw cn tht nt b transphobc

Slf beleve tht deb8tes abt prisns etc r importnt bt tht = bcse of crimnl cis mn wh/ r pretndng 2 b trns 2 accss a womns spce -- whch hs bn happnng recntly -- nt bcse of legit8mte trns ppl - = possble 2 consdr thse argmnts w/o dismissng th/ trns cmmunty as a whole

Ppl on certn prts of politcl spectrm kp usng ppl & stuatns wh/ r nt trns in ordr 2 d-legitmse trns xpernce

Also -- sayng tht evry1 shld b abl 2 b honst abt thr own xpernces on SaSu = nt a reasn 2 invalid8 anothr persns xpernce bcse of ur ideolgy -- am nt sre hw xpressng thse opinns ws genuinly beneficl 2 u bcse all u r doin = tellng sme1 els hw thr xpernce = nt valid

 

[borderline-feline]

Ok first of all.. to say that biologically born males competing in women's sports is a "non-issue" is completely intellectually dishonest and you don't even make an argument for it because you know you can't. Biologically born males and biologically born females are VERY different. It is not a right wing thing or a left wing thing, it's just a biological fact we can all see with our eyes. The left today are just willing to lie in and not practice rational thinking in order to be kind or not get attacked online. But a born male on estrogen for two years is nowhere near comparable to a biological women on estrogen her whole life because born males still have bigger skeletons, lungs etc. that give them an advantage. Obviously there will be the rare few men or women who are the exception but overall, this is the truth. If not we wouldn't have separate catagories in the first place.

Secondly, if assault in bathrooms are rare... Why are you so afraid to go into the mens bathroom then? Obviously there is some trans women who pass and can sneak past the radar but biological women who see obviously born males in their bathrooms want to be able to call it out but then the next step is they want to be in our sports, our prisons etc. For the same reason men and women's prisons are separate, born males without bottom surgery should not be in cis women's prisons.

You wouldnt say we are claiming all men are predatory if we say we don't want them in the womens bathroom or prison .. yet claim we are saying all trans women are predatory when we are not. The principle is the exact same and your arguments for it are completely illogical. Because it has to be. Otherwise no one would accept it.

There also is a real growing movement of ex trans men who mistakenly took hormones because they thought girls couldn't have short hair, like stereotypical guy things or just felt uncomfortable being sexualized as female. This is not every trans mans experience, however there is a real movement of genuine detransitioners and they should be listened to aswel .. but when they do, they can viciously attacked by trans activists. Radical feminists also see trans women as biologically born males with just so happens to be factually correct.

At the end of the day, you may be the opposite gender in your head but that does not mean you are the very same as the sex you wished to have been born as. You can take hormones, get surgery and fit socially to a degree and have the right to do what you want with your body but you absolutely do not have the right to expect people to deny biological reality to make you feel better. If you expect that, you will always be sorely disappointed in this life. It will not help you to be a strong person .. especially the people who will lie to you in order to be tolerant. Obviously (well.. hopefully) you know you are not the opposite sex. However what you don't seem to know is you are not entitled to all the rights of that sex or to infringe on women's long hard fought for rights but sadly, this generation only leads by their emotions, are shockingly irrational and will just downright refuse to accept the truth in order to appear tolerant or virtual signal which is all the Left do now. They use to be the party of science. Now they can't even say what a man and woman is.
I won't LIE to make you feel better like most of the other people on here will do to appear progressive and tolerant.

My first reply to you also wasn't political at all. I was simply trying to help you have a more balanced perspective and consider where both sides are coming from instead as automatically shutting people down as transphobic.

You are the one who made it political and have just demonstrated my point. But it's funny how that only ever works one way and if this site is really about helping people, then people should be able to speak their truth on both sides .. not lie to people and not accuse people with a different opinion as you transphobic.

It will genuinely not help you to go through your life.. believing everyone should agree and bow to your demands to be treated literally like the opposite sex. But if you wanna believe the sky is red and have everyone tell you the sky is red, then carry on believing the sky is red.

Translating Dot's reply:

"You say that people will use the word 'transphobic' just to shut people down, but your comment is inherently transphobic because you are using words like 'sneaking through' into bathrooms for some transwomen as though they are trying to be dishonest with something to hide & saying that you are 'lying' to someone' if you are accepting that person's gender identity.

Lying to them would be agreeing that they are cis. Respecting their identity of male or female once they have transitioned or are in the process of transitioning just shows basic awareness of how gender dysphoria works. Your language just shows that you believe that trans people are lying or delusional about their gender & are acting entitled from wanting certain rights in society. How can that not be transphobic?

I believe that debates about prisons, etc. are important, but that is because of criminal cis men who are pretending to be trans to access a women's space -- which has been happening recently -- not because of legitimate trans people. It's possible to consider these arguments without dismissing the trans community as a whole.

People on certain parts of the political spectrum keep using people & situations who are not trans in order to delegitimize trans experiences.

Also -- saying that everyone should be able to be honest about their own experiences on SaSu is not a reason to invalidate another person's experience because of your ideology -- I'm not sure how expressing these opinions was genuinely beneficial to you because all you are doing is telling someone else on their own venting thread how their experience is not valid."

 

[Dot]

Jst sw a gd xplanatn USA anti-trns bills crrntly b-ing passd

 

[SexyIncél]

I feel like the world is being swallowed by the politically driven trans agenda. The far left divide and conquer strategy driving hate between everyone is so successful literally no one in this thread is even aware of how much they have been manipulated by them. For those of us who see reality it is like literally watching civilization coming to an end.

I agree there's a divide-and-conquer culture war. And organized human life is threatened. They're linked. But why, and who's doing it?

People's personal choices are their own business. In a sane world, once a society finally accepts some people are born the wrong gender (because nature enjoys screwing with us), we try to work out some simple details and fix things. Not exactly the world's hardest problem, and may uncover deeper underlying problems

Instead, I think outrage against transgender people is mostly manufactured by the usual lapdogs: politicians, media pundits, etc. Just another way to fuck with people's freedom

That's badcop. Their fake-wrestling frenemies are goodcop politician/media lapdogs, who act like edgelords to troll badcop's followers. Goodcop/badcop distract from issues that do threaten civilization. Like treating the world like an infinite garbage can. Or working everyone harder for less, keeping food/shelter/luxuries artificially scarce

 

[RainAndSadness]

Ok first of all.. to say that biologically born males competing in women's sports is a "non-issue" is completely intellectually dishonest and you don't even make an argument for it because you know you can't. Biologically born males and biologically born females are VERY different.

It is a non-issue. The current lines are drawn arbritrarily and do you want to know something? The biological differences between member of a certain sex category are just as severe as the differences between men and women in general, look at the picture below. Gender alone doesn't give you an inherent advantage/disadvantage and it makes absolutely no sense to seperate sport based on sex. We also have to understand that only a tiny minority of each sex are able to participate in competitive sport anyway, they're already an extreme in their own sex group. The average person has no match on somebody who is an athlethic runner or an MMA fighter, regardless of sex. Just look up Gabrielle Lemos Garcia, a mixed marcial artist who is also a cis-woman. She is an absolute beast of a person and she would destroy pretty much everyone in this forum in a fair fight, you and me included. And she is without a doubt more beefy than 99% of trans women.

Gabi is on the right. And yes, she is a cis-woman. This example alone proves the absurdity of your position. Sport, as it exists right now, is inherently unfair. We should seperate sport based on height, weight, hormone levels, age, etc to make it as fair as evenly possible and not on sex alone because that still leaves so much room for biological advantages. Sincere question: does this matchup look fair to you? More fair than trans-women vs cis-women? Seriously? Why do trans women in women's sport bother you but this doesn't?


Destanie Yarbrough(170cm tall) vs Gabi Garcia(187cm tall)

Let's also not forget that you're advocating for trans-men, who take testosterone - to compete against cis-women. How does that make sense?

Secondly, if assault in bathrooms are rare... Why are you so afraid to go into the mens bathroom then?

I'm pretty sure people don't need to identify as female first to enter a certain bathroom anyway, right? So what's that talking point. Seperating bathrooms based on sex doesn't create that invisible, inpenetratable shield for cis-women. So let's not pretend that trying to keep trans-women out of women's bathroom protects anyone. Anyone can enter any bathroom, at any given time, regardless of their sex and someone who wants to assault women in female bathrooms will enter bathrooms, period. I don't think there are laws dicating the sex of people who want to enter a certain bathroom anyway.

That being said, there are enough studies that indicate trans women are more often victims of sexual and physical assault than both cis-men and cis-women. Here is a study for example.

Transgender people over four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

Transgender people (16+) are victimized over four times more often than cisgender people. In 2017-2018, transgender people experienced 86.2 victimizations per 1,000 people compared to 21.7 victimizations per 1,000 people for cisgender people.

Transgender women and men had higher rates of violent victimization (86.1 and 107.5 per 1,000 people, respectively) than cisgender women and men (23.7 and 19.8 per 1,000 people, respectively).

So if you care so much about assault in bathrooms, maybe you should rethink your position and adopt a trans-inclusive policy. Trans women aren't the ones doing the sexual assault, they're victim of sexual assault. I also want to point out that your talking point about "predatory trans women invading women spaces" (for example as a result of self-ID laws) have been debunked thorougly among academic circles. Here are some studies dissescting if trans-inclusive policies pose a danger to cis-women in bathrooms.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-2230.12507

https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/ws/files/139271435/Bristol_Pure_Version_PD.pdf

https://escholarship.org/uc/item/4rs4n6h0

There also is a real growing movement of ex trans men who mistakenly took hormones because they thought girls couldn't have short hair, like stereotypical guy things or just felt uncomfortable being sexualized as female. This is not every trans mans experience, however there is a real movement of genuine detransitioners and they should be listened to aswel .. but when they do, they can viciously attacked by trans activists. Radical feminists also see trans women as biologically born males with just so happens to be factually correct.

Citation needed. Oh wait, I'll have citations for you.

According to this study with 17'000 participants, 15% detransition, of whom only 2%(!) detransitioned with a reason related to their gender, all others(!) detransitioned due to external factors such as pressure from friends, family and cowokers or financial reasons, etc.

Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis

Purpose: There is a paucity of data regarding transgender and gender diverse (TGD) people who “detransition,” or go back to living as their sex assigned at birth. This study examined reasons for past detransition among TGD people in the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Study observing trans youth for 5 years, only 2% detransitioned

Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition

BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVES. Concerns about early childhood social transitions among transgender youth include that these youth may later change their gender identification (ie, retransition), a process that could be distressing. The current study aimed to provide the first estimate of...

publications.aap.org

Scientific paper from the UK with 3398 attendes, 0.47% expressed transition-related regret

https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf

Study from the Netherlands, only 1.9% detransition rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/!

Another study from the Netherlands, only 0.6% of trans women and 0.3% of trans men experienced regret.

The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets - PubMed

The number of people with gender identity issues seeking professional help increased dramatically in recent decades. The percentage of people who regretted gonadectomy remained small and did not show a tendency to increase. Wiepjes CM, Nota NM, de Blok CJM, et al. The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Study from Sweden with 767 participants, only 2% expressed regrets

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets

Study from the US which found 8% detransitionedm of whom 62% did so for societal, financial or family pressure related reasons.

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf

So don't come at me with muh detransitioners. We're talking about a tiny little minority here and they're in no way representative for trans people. You know what you're doing? It's called concern trolling. As if you care about detransitoners, come on. You didn't even do basic research because if you did, you'd knew it's a tiny minority and they're statistically insignifcant when it comes the effectiveness of transitioning on a statistical level

You are the one who made it political and have just demonstrated my point. But it's funny how that only ever works one way and if this site is really about helping people, then people should be able to speak their truth on both sides .. not lie to people and not accuse people with a different opinion as you transphobic.

There are no both sides. But hey, let's just settle the question of transphobia once and for all and answer the most easiest question for me. Are trans women real women? It's a simple yes or no question.

 

[Lawliet]

i'm trans and very androgynous. i live in a place with under 10k people and it's very religious. i'm scared to go out. idk if i want to do hormones, but if my state goes the way missouri does, it won't matter. i'm scared to go through the long process of a name and gender maker change. i hate it

 

[borderline-feline]

i'm trans and very androgynous. i live in a place with under 10k people and it's very religious. i'm scared to go out. idk if i want to do hormones, but if my state goes the way missouri does, it won't matter. i'm scared to go through the long process of a name and gender maker change. i hate it

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of states have, to some extent, declared war on medical transitioning. They couch it all in terminology that makes them sound like their focus is on helping children. They say that they want to ban children from getting transition surgeries when doctors don't even perform those surgeries on children in the first place, and then they fill their legislation with restrictions for grown adults while claiming to be in favor of small government.

People like Matt Walsh for example, if Walsh really wanted to protect children, then he wouldn't vocally support infant circumcision and then bitch about Elliot Page (a grown-ass adult) getting top surgery.