Discussion How hypocrite is it to be against your friend’s suicide.

[Nihilisticstatic]

I believe suicide should be accessible and a personal choice. I plan on trying a couple different things in life and then ctb. To me death is a state of matter just like life is, its scary at times but there's no need to overcomplicate it. If someone wanted advice on how to have a peaceful death, I'd give it. I understand that life can be so unbearable at times.
Despite that, when my friends talk about suicide, I can't help but talk against it. Im not against suicide, just against their's in specific. I dont want my friends to die because while life can be filled with -1, it can also have +1s. Death is a 0 forever, no pain but no joy or pleasure. I want my friends to be happy and not in pain. Thats where I realize my hypocrisy. To them, pain is everything at that moment and the future doesnt matter if youre dead so why should they care if they will feel happy in 10 years. Its easy to say "it gets better", yeah it does, but how does that justify not dying now?

It feels like I dont want my friends to die not for them but just so that I dont lose them, but it also feels wrong and heartless to say "I think you should do it if thats what you want, even if I don't wanna lose you."

At what point to we prioritize our own selfish wants over our friends' wants, especially when it about their own life?
Whats the right thing to do?
Kind of need help with this

 

[WhiteRaven]

If you can change their mind, you might have saved their life; it's always better if someone doesn't die. Except sometimes life is so much worse than dieing chosing to live isn't an option. But how you support them is what is important. If all they get from other people in their support system is the reasons they shouldn't die, then it can be more helpful to hear them out without criticism. Trying to understand how they feel.

 

[MrNobody88]

That's a tough line to walk. Even though most people here are not against suicide we still don't want someone we care about to die. For example I plan on leaving this world soon but if someone I loved called me saying they were going to end their life I would probably be against it too. I guess that makes me a hypocrite lol

That's a hard one to wrestle with Static, I don't think anyone can give you an easy answer on it. Perhaps you value the life of your friends more than your own and that's where the conflict of ideas comes from. I wish you luck on this thought experiment and I hope you stay close to your friends.

 

[Nihilisticstatic]

If you can change their mind, you might have saved their life; it's always better if someone doesn't die. Except sometimes life is so much worse than dieing chosing to live isn't an option. But how you support them is what is important. If all they get from other people in their support system is the reasons they shouldn't die, then it can be more helpful to hear them out without criticism. Trying to understand how they feel.

It's not for me to decide if they're in enough pain or not though. And even without pain, sometimes life just isn't it. Ill try my best to support them and make them feel less bad.

I wish you luck on this thought experiment and I hope you stay close to your friends.

It all comes down to one's values I guess.
Thanks, Im not sure what the right thing to do is, but Ill listen to them and try being there for them.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

You can be against something and not desire to stop someone from doing it. Let's say I'm against tattoos, and if I am asked my opinion, I will give it. But I don't interfere in the affairs of others. In the case of suicide, I provide them with support that won't cause harm. It's up to them to take it or not. The key phrase is, "won't cause harm." Does forced hospitalization cause harm? It can. But others call it life-saving. I would say let your principles guide you, but don't let purity get in the way of people.

 

[clarity]

I have realised that I'm a hypocrite that way. While I have hope for others, tell them that things can get better - I just don't feel that for myself.

If a friend told me that they were feeling depressed and suicidal, I would try to instill some hope into them. Encourage them to try antidepressants because sometimes they do help in lifting the depression.

I just can't seem to apply the same perspective when it comes to myself.

 

[OnceTheHappiestMan]

I don't think hypocrisy is the right word, it seems from what you say that you really hope and think that they could recover, you are not pretending. You don't seem to have the same hope on yourself, and while that fact might or might not be true, your feeling is.

I'd like my friends to wish the same for me as you wish for yours, and I won't judge them hypocrites for that, actually if I knew they also feel suicidal, I would value their care even more.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Yeah, I think it is selfish and hypocritical. You should try to empathise with their situation, and be more understanding and accepting of their choice to ctb. You don't have to like their decision, and there's nothing wrong with feeling sad. But you should respect what they want/need.

 

[noriaki]

Now that is material for thought experiment. Morality and philosophy of our community. But if u are ok with supporting strangers then why not support ypur firends. In my opinion it is only selfish.

 

[OnceTheHappiestMan]

Mmmh let's see if I can express myself here, English not being my first language.

I suppose we agree there's a difference between supporting and encouraging, also we probably agree that we would like for everyone, in this forum or friend, to recover although we might think it's not an option for ourselves. Finally, we respect their final decision to ctb and wish for them the peace they couldn't get alive.

Would a friend of mine ctbd, I know that I would understand it. But, if I truly think that there might be some hope for them, I'll try to make them see it before.

I think the line is where SchyzoGymnast draw it, I wouldn't try to force them to anything, to be hospitalized etc.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think you can express both. I have to someone here. That I was pro choice, that I felt so sad for their suffering, that I could understand their decision but then, at the same time that- selfishly, I would miss them.

As for a feeling their life could get better. What is that based on and, why do you suppose they (presumably) don't agree?

Do you think it's likely they can in fact achieve the things they want and overcome the problems they have? Do you think it will feel worthwhile enough for them- even if they do achieve those things?

Maybe you can see a good future for them- plus, a realistic way to achieve it. In which case- it can't really hurt to express those thoughts. Perhaps you can see potential they can't.

There again- if it's some vague feeling/ hope things could turn around- we may not all share that hope and, things don't necessarily get better for everyone- no matter how hard they try. I can't say I'm exactly grateful I've held on for so long. (I'm 45 and had ideation since I was 10.) I wouldn't say I've benefited much from that decision. I simply made it not to hurt others but then that means, I'm living with very little for myself but a whole bunch of resentment towards those I am holding on for.

Ultimately though- we're human and it's only human to be selfish and want to hold onto the things we love and need. It can be a genuinely well wish that we want people to live- believing they will eventually be happy but ultimately- it is a wish more than a certainty.

And it will be them needing to put in the bulk of the effort to turn their life around to make it happier. Even with your support, how likely is it they've got the strength for that?

Maybe ultimately- how would you want them to treat you in the same situation?

 

[OnceTheHappiestMan]

As I said before, I would appreciate if friends had hope for me, and tried to make me see it. I suppose that it depends on how our own experiences have marked us. We are more or less the same age, and in my case my depression and suicidal thoughts (arguably an inherited trait from my mother) haven't been a constant, but an in and out thing with moments where I almost forgot I was depressed sometime in the past.

But anyway, we are talking about feelings that, at least for me, have always been hard to rationalize (maybe because of the intermittency of it). I don't see the selfishness because I don't feel that I would be wishing for their recovery for my own sake. But of course I could be wrong.

All in all, at least we all agree that we should respect the decision anyone has taken about how to end their own life.

 

[Blueberry Panic]

I believe suicide is personal choice just like you stated and as much as we want to keep our friends and loved ones around ... it's not something we should fight them on. If they reach out and show a willingness to keep trying , then try with them ... live this life with them.
Be available and care about them but don't force your hand and stop them from their own peace if they desire it.

We hold attachments to the people we love but you can't hold onto everyone, you have to learn how to let go when the time comes...