Method Guns/firearms megathread

[TAW122]

Let me go ahead and simplify this,

Shotgun, 12g #00 Buck, side of the head

If I'm correct this is going to blow me to bits. No errors could possibly be made, right?

Correct weapon, correct ammo, but incorrect placement. With a long gun, it will be hard to put it aside one's head and be able to pull the trigger without missing. With shotguns and rifles, the idea is to get the barrel in the mouth while you tilt your head down and aim the barrel to the back of the mouth. This way, you will be much more likely to hit the brainstem and if not, then at least destroy the vast majority of your brain such that you will die from blood loss, hydrostatic shock, and trauma.

 

[ShadowOfTheDay]

You know what really gets to me? I spent 9 months in Iraq with an M4 carbine, fully-automatic--always by my side. Never once did the thought of killing myself cross my mind. Four years later, no longer in the military and no access to fire arms, it's all I can seem to think about. Hindsight=20/20.

 

[Meretlein]

So I shoot myself in the ear so I can kill my brainstem? Sorry if I sound like an idiot my spatial processing is horrible.

 

[TAW122]

So I shoot myself in the ear so I can kill my brainstem? Sorry if I sound like an idiot my spatial processing is horrible.

Yes, and if you are shooting through your ear, it should reach your brainstem. Also, this is done with a side arm, pistol/revolver. Finally, make sure you use a sufficient round, 9mm (hollow point, not full metal jacket), .45, .40, or .38 special (if using revolver), and don't try to anticipate the recoil/flinch, because if you jerk the weapon away as you fire, you will miss and hit some other part of your brain that results in surviving and possibly ending up as a vegetable, plus a LOT of pain.

 

[salvation]

would you die if you got a 9mm pak blank pistol, put a projectile like a 22 pellet or buckshot in the cartridge, removed the barrel blocker, and shoot yourself?
I've read a .22 blank has more than enough force to propel a fatal projectile.

 

[TAW122]

I'm not really sure, and I think it would depend on the FPS (foot per second) of the .22 blank, as well as other ballistics (I'm no expert in that area, sorry) and variables. Thus, I don't really think would be super reliable as it is subject to many variables and unless you know exactly what you are doing, you aren't likely to be 100% certain that it will work. I'd just stick with regular 9mm hollowpoint, 00 buckshot, or even .308 Winchester round for ctb'ing. Those are really reliable and have close to 100%, especially the 00 buckshot.

 

[Iceangel]

So truthfully I havent read much of the thread yet (as im not sure i will pursue this method) so i apologize if this has been answered but if i apply for a license (in california) and they background check me can i get it turned down because of a history of depression (will it show up in a background check/how thorough are they)? Ive never been committed but ive admitted to doctors i have depression and have attempted in the past. Just want to know if its a possibility worth pursuing.

 

[TAW122]

I am not familiar with California law, but I think if there is a history of depression, then depending on situation, you may or may not get the license. California is generally hard to legally obtain a firearm and contains a lot of hoops to jump through in order to successfully acquire a firearm. If you are able to move to a different state, then it's something worth considering.

Someone who is more familiar with California law may be able to better answer the question.

 

[salvation]

i live in CA too, laws suck here. people are scared of guns.
.38 Special +P?

 

[jules18]

From what I've read you have to aim at a 30 deg. angle to hit the brain stem using either a handgun or a shotgun. Is it feasible to measure this angle? like using an angle finder attached to a level meter to make sure it's parallel to the ground?

 

[Nihil]

I always thought to aim at a 45 degree angle in the mouth. Though I've been seeing several folks saying here it's 30 degrees. What's the correct angle in the mouth to aim?

So truthfully I havent read much of the thread yet (as im not sure i will pursue this method) so i apologize if this has been answered but if i apply for a license (in california) and they background check me can i get it turned down because of a history of depression (will it show up in a background check/how thorough are they)? Ive never been committed but ive admitted to doctors i have depression and have attempted in the past. Just want to know if its a possibility worth pursuing.

That I'm not entirely sure with California law. I've lived there for a few years in the past, and from what I can remember, you first have to apply and pass a firearms safety test in order to have a certificate that lets you buy guns. The background check and eligibility to pass a background check isn't determined until you actually buy the gun. From there, if you manage to pass it, you have to wait ten days before you can actually pick up the gun and leave with it. For long guns (shotguns and rifles), I believe this is all you have to do besides providing proof of ID with a California driver's license. For hand guns, you also have to provide proof of residency, which only a few documents are accepted (like a car title, mortgage or lease, etc.) with your name on them matching the address on your driver's license. Also, you're only allowed the purchase of one hand gun every 30 days there, whereas there's no purchase limits with long guns. However, legislation is always getting stricter in that state, so what I'm saying could be outdated. I think ammo background checks are soon going to become a thing there, so yes, I'd recommend moving to a different state, except Hawaii, New York, Illinois, and Massachusessets. It's SO much easier to buy a firearm in other states. This source might help you more with buying guns in California: https://www.buyyourfirstgun.com/how-to-buy-a-gun-in-california.


As far as background checks in California are concerned, they are fairly extensive, though I'm not sure by how much. Almost anywhere else in the country though, at least with the standard Federal background check with ATF Form 4473, the only grounds from banning you from firearms for mental health are 1) if you've been involuntarily committed to a mental institution and 2) if a judge has legally adjudicated you as a "mental defective." So long as you don't have that court order from a judge, and so long as you haven't been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, you can still buy guns (barring other factors like felonies, dishonorable discharge, etc.). I have severe major depression and have been legally diagnosed with it, am on an antidepressant, and I've still been able to buy firearms no problem. Again though, California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, so I'm not sure how having a history of depression will show up there. This source might also help you: http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-...session-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx.

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

This is only a last resort and I know something like a .45 is more ideal but if you shoot at the stem with .22 how likely are you to survive? It's the only gun I can access at the moment.

 

[TiredHorse]

This is only a last resort and I know something like a .45 is more ideal but if you shoot at the stem with .22 how likely are you to survive? It's the only gun I can access at the moment.

IF you hit the brainstem, it'll be perfectly adequate --but that's a big if.

Backcountry horseback outfits typically advise carrying a gun in case emergency euthanasia is required for an injured horse, and all of them say a .22 is adequate. If it's adequate for a horse, it's adequate for a human. (Side note: vets in Europe typically use a .32 Auto, my gun of choice if I decide to CTB with a gun.) However, it's a lot easier to aim properly at someone else's brainstem, horse or human, than it is to aim at your own brainstem.

In my own EMT training I learned that .22s are statistically the most lethal gun. Doctors hate 'em, because that little, high-velocity round can go swooping around inside a body, leaving lots of little holes, and there's no telling where it'll end up --which can be good, if it ricochets around and gets the brainstem, or bad if it goes entirely off target and only hits the parts of the brain that will leave you a vegetable.

If you decide to use a .22, you would be rash not to dedicate yourself to spending a great deal of time studying diagrams of the brain, to understand exactly where you need to aim, and then taking the time in front of a mirror to practice your aimpoint and stance. It's harder than you think to aim directly across your head with the muzzle behind your ear. And of course you will want to use a high-velocity hollowpoint round.

Bigger is better, because an overabundance of power makes up for flawed aim, but small and acurate can suffice. Success all depends on how accurate you are.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

This is only a last resort and I know something like a .45 is more ideal but if you shoot at the stem with .22 how likely are you to survive? It's the only gun I can access at the moment.

Spoiler: Mexico school shooting

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/school-shooting-mexico-photos-170783/
22. caliber used in this shooting it looks like a pretty quick death.

 

[spanishguy22]

Here's another diagram for those wondering where the brainstem is relative to the other features of your head. Aim for the pink circle:

View attachment 4213

The circle is too small for me to be confident I'm aiming correctly. I could see me trying to overcompensate upwards to make sure I don't miss the brain and end up missing the brain stem. Any tips

 

[TiredHorse]

The circle is too small for me to be confident I'm aiming correctly. I could see me trying to overcompensate upwards to make sure I don't miss the brain and end up missing the brain stem. Any tips

The only tip I can offer, if using a .22 --or any gun, for that matter-- is to compensate downward to hit the brainstem or spinal cord, either of which is far more likely to result in death than hitting the major (but largely unimportant to life support) mass of the brain.

But yes, you've found the principle reason people use large caliber guns to CTB. A larger caliber sends out a larger shockwave that is more likely to damage/destroy areas the bullet itself doesn't hit.

 

[spanishguy22]

The only tip I can offer, if using a .22 --or any gun, for that matter-- is to compensate downward to hit the brainstem or spinal cord, either of which is far more likely to result in death than hitting the major (but largely unimportant to life support) mass of the brain.

But yes, you've found the principle reason people use large caliber guns to CTB. A larger caliber sends out a larger shockwave that is more likely to damage/destroy areas the bullet itself doesn't hit.

But if you aim at the spinal cord there's a chance to get paralyzed instead of dying right?

 

[Nihil]

Honest question, even if it may sound dumb or has already been said in the megathread, but will aiming at a 45 degree angle in the mouth with the gun upside down (grip facing upwards) kill me with a high degree of certainty? I have a .44 magnum revolver with I think a 7.5 in barrel, and it's too long and heavy to hold against my ear. Will this gun inflict the right kind of damage like a shotgun would if aimed in the mouth that way?

In addition, I also have a .357 Magnum revolver with a 4.2 in barrel, is a lot smaller and lighter, and I can aim it behind the ear no problem. Would aiming behind the ear be better than in the mouth at an upwards angle? And, as a last dumb question, would a .357 Magnum caliber be sufficient enough to most certainly kill me behind the ear? I can't decide which gun I should settle on suiciding with.

 

[TiredHorse]

Yes, technically you could end up paralyzed, but that high up on the spinal cord, and with the shock of a bullet hitting the cord, I suspect you're far more likely to die. I would worry more about missing and ending up a vegetable.

Again, that's the risk of a small caliber gun. For what it's worth, I wouldn't even try it with a .22. I intend to use a .32, if I go that route, and even that is marginal --I'm confident in it only because it is a small, easily-aimed gun, loaded with good hollowpoints, and because I know what I'm aiming at.

@Nihil , aiming a .44 Mag anywhere in the same room as your head will probably kill you. That is a hand-cannon. You could probably just point it at your mirror and get the job done (joke). That said, I would without question use the shorter .357: it is far, far easier to aim properly and has more than enough power to reliably kill you. Just make sure you always use hollowpoints.

Aiming behind the ear or into your mouth is entirely a matter of personal preference --but 45° up-angle in the mouth is too high. Look at that diagram @spanishguy22 just posted (post #165) and you'll see that you only want to use a slight (10°-15°) up-angle.

 

[Misanthrope]

As a curious Brit clueless about guns, in the states if you have a criminal record can you still access a gun? If you have a diagnosed mental health issue can you still get a gun?

 

[TiredHorse]

As a curious Brit clueless about guns, in the states if you have a criminal record can you still access a gun? If you have a diagnosed mental health issue can you still get a gun?

It depends.

A relatively minor crime --fender bender, public indecency, petty theft-- won't prohibit you from owning firearms, but a felony will. After you've served your felony sentence you can petition to have your right to own a firearm restored, typically after a period of time (six years?), but it's a far cry from certain your petition will be approved. It largely depends on the crime. A friend of mine accidentally committed a felony --traffic accident, with injuries, while under the influence of Ambien on a doctor's prescription-- and the judge was as lenient as the law allowed, and so my friend hopes to have his ability to own a gun restored in a few years. It's anyone's guess whether he'll be approved, though.

Diagnosed mental health issues are trickier, and typically vary from state to state. My understanding is that voluntary comittment won't affect your right to possess once you're out of hospital. Here in Washington (State, not Dippy City (DC)), where the rate of gun ownership is very high, they recently passed a law that revokes the right of gun ownership/posession if you're involuntarily committed, and they're trying to pass a 6-month revocation if you're even placed on a 72-hour involuntary hold for observation, regardless of whether you're then held further. In the former case, you can petition a judge to have your rights restored once you're released, but it'll be on a doctor's approval, and the scuttlebutt is that the doctors are refusing to approve because they don't want to be held liable if you then use the gun on yourself and others.

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

IF you hit the brainstem, it'll be perfectly adequate --but that's a big if.

Backcountry horseback outfits typically advise carrying a gun in case emergency euthanasia is required for an injured horse, and all of them say a .22 is adequate. If it's adequate for a horse, it's adequate for a human. (Side note: vets in Europe typically use a .32 Auto, my gun of choice if I decide to CTB with a gun.) However, it's a lot easier to aim properly at someone else's brainstem, horse or human, than it is to aim at your own brainstem.

In my own EMT training I learned that .22s are statistically the most lethal gun. Doctors hate 'em, because that little, high-velocity round can go swooping around inside a body, leaving lots of little holes, and there's no telling where it'll end up --which can be good, if it ricochets around and gets the brainstem, or bad if it goes entirely off target and only hits the parts of the brain that will leave you a vegetable.

If you decide to use a .22, you would be rash not to dedicate yourself to spending a great deal of time studying diagrams of the brain, to understand exactly where you need to aim, and then taking the time in front of a mirror to practice your aimpoint and stance. It's harder than you think to aim directly across your head with the muzzle behind your ear. And of course you will want to use a high-velocity hollowpoint round.

Bigger is better, because an overabundance of power makes up for flawed aim, but small and acurate can suffice. Success all depends on how accurate you are.

I might be looking at a shitty diagram but it looks like it's on the ear. Can I shoot through the ear with the .22 and have a good chance?

 

[TiredHorse]

I might be looking at a shitty diagram but it looks like it's on the war. Can I shoot through the ear with the .22 and have a good chance?

"On the war"? I don't know that phrase.

As for shooting through the ear, I honestly don't know. I've often wondered the same thing myself, regardless of caliber. From looking at the various diagrams showing brainstem location, it seems that ought to be a very good way of ensuring you'll be aiming in the right general area. Rather than having the muzzle sliding around somewhere behind your ear, just stick the muzzle into your ear and aim slightly back. But I just don't know. I have never read or heard of anyone shooting themselves in the ear. Maybe people are too squeamish about it, and thus don't typically do so? That would be odd, given how often people shoot themselves in the mouth, but... Humans are weird, and maybe we're pathologically averse to shooting into our own ears to kill ourselves.

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

"On the war"? I don't know that phrase.

As for shooting through the ear, I honestly don't know. I've often wondered the same thing myself, regardless of caliber. From looking at the various diagrams showing brainstem location, it seems that ought to be a very good way of ensuring you'll be aiming in the right general area. Rather than having the muzzle sliding around somewhere behind your ear, just stick the muzzle into your ear and aim slightly back. But I just don't know. I have never read or heard of anyone shooting themselves in the ear. Maybe people are too squeamish about it, and thus don't typically do so? That would be odd, given how often people shoot themselves in the mouth, but... Humans are weird, and maybe we're pathologically averse to shooting into our own ears to kill ourselves.

Sorry I meant to say ear instead of war. My phone touchscreen is stupid sometimes.

 

[TAW122]

Excellent to see @TiredHorse picking up the slack on the firearms megathread! :) All really good information, including @spanishguy22's diagram.

 

[Antinous]

As for shooting through the ear, I honestly don't know. I've often wondered the same thing myself, regardless of caliber. From looking at the various diagrams showing brainstem location, it seems that ought to be a very good way of ensuring you'll be aiming in the right general area. Rather than having the muzzle sliding around somewhere behind your ear, just stick the muzzle into your ear and aim slightly back. But I just don't know. I have never read or heard of anyone shooting themselves in the ear. Maybe people are too squeamish about it, and thus don't typically do so? That would be odd, given how often people shoot themselves in the mouth, but... Humans are weird, and maybe we're pathologically averse to shooting into our own ears to kill ourselves.

Ear or mouth? I have been reading this thread trying to decide how to aim with the best likelihood of getting the job done with a Glock 19 using Speer Gold Dot 9mm Luger +P 124GR ammo. Do I interpret you correctly that you lean toward in the mouth? One problem I have with the ear is that I can't see what I'm doing. Is the gun aimed exactly the way I think it's aimed? In the mouth, I'm looking at the gun and feel like I have better control. What do you think?

 

[TiredHorse]

Your choice of firearm and ammo leaves nothing to be desired: it should be more than adequate with either aimpoint.

Ear or mouth, either is effective if done correctly, and your best chance of accomplishing the job correctly is to do it in a manner you're most comfortable with. So if you are most comfortable shooting through the mouth, that's your best approach.

Just DO NOT aim up from under the chin or at your temple, no matter how much more comfortable those are.

I think regardless of whether you choose ear or mouth, you need to spend some time in front of a mirror making sure you're aiming where you think you're aiming. As you say, it's impossible to see where you're aiming with the muzzle at your ear, but with it in your mouth I think you'll find it's similarly difficult to judge the angle up or down without some practice. You don't want to shoot too high through your mouth any more than you want to shoot too high at your ear.

Thinking about that point, I would offer for people's opinion the idea that "better to aim too low than too high" might be a worthwhile point to keep in mind (so to speak!). Too high, and if you miss the brainstem you just vegetablize yourself. Too low, and if you miss the brainstem you sever the spinal cord and have a good chance of dying anyway.

 

[Antinous]

Thank you for your input, TiredHorse. It looks like I should practice in the mouth, aiming toward an imaginary line drawn between the ears because the "blued headed man" (post #165) diagram indicates the medulla sits between the ears, along that line.

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

Your choice of firearm and ammo leaves nothing to be desired: it should be more than adequate with either aimpoint.

Ear or mouth, either is effective if done correctly, and your best chance of accomplishing the job correctly is to do it in a manner you're most comfortable with. So if you are most comfortable shooting through the mouth, that's your best approach.

Just DO NOT aim up from under the chin or at your temple, no matter how much more comfortable those are.

I think regardless of whether you choose ear or mouth, you need to spend some time in front of a mirror making sure you're aiming where you think you're aiming. As you say, it's impossible to see where you're aiming with the muzzle at your ear, but with it in your mouth I think you'll find it's similarly difficult to judge the angle up or down without some practice. You don't want to shoot too high through your mouth any more than you want to shoot too high at your ear.

Thinking about that point, I would offer for people's opinion the idea that "better to aim too low than too high" might be a worthwhile point to keep in mind (so to speak!). Too high, and if you miss the brainstem you just vegetablize yourself. Too low, and if you miss the brainstem you sever the spinal cord and have a good chance of dying anyway.

How long will it take you to die if you happen to hit the spinal cord instead of the stem?

 

[Antinous]

I just stumbled on these threads and saw that gun placement has already been discussed . . . a lot.

Sorry for the repetition.

Gun placement thread
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/gun-placement.8990/

A list of warnings
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/a-list-of-warnings.9207/