Method Guns/firearms megathread

[smsam]

time everyone.
I bought a gun MP -18 M M.
Choke size ( choke ) - 1 mm ( F ) .
They say that with such a muzzle narrowing, not every shot or bullet is suitable.
Bought it and then found out about it.
It is no longer possible to change.
It is very difficult to get documents.
Please tell me what size shot or buckshot can be used with such a muzzle narrowing. ( F ) ?
In addition, we now have a war in the country and there is a very small choice of cartridges.

 

[lifeisbutadream]

I don't know what that is. What country is it made in? Could you copy exactly everything that is inscribed or written on it and on accompanying paperwork? You should, have, and still may, purchase ammo to go with it, or at least ask exactly what kind to use.

 

[Jrmull1993]

For a point blank range I wouldn't worry about what size shot your using.

 

[KevG]

So I am hoping to purchase a 9 mm handgun and hollow point bullets. Since I have never shot a gun before I have questions and concerns. There is only one chance to do this right. Can anyone comment on recoil of the gun please. If I aim at the right area and pull the trigger will recoil cause the bullet trajectory to change thus missing where I aimed?? I am small in stature and lack any manly muscle to hold a gun in a way to deal with recoil issues.

Also looking at other ways out. Night night method looks like an option with a whole lot less drama but not sure.

 

[Interloper]

So I was able to purchase a 9 mm handgun and hollow point bullets. Since I have never shot a gun before I have questions and concerns. There is only one chance to do this right. Can anyone comment on recoil of the gun please. If I aim at the right area and pull the trigger will recoil cause the bullet trajectory to change thus missing where I aimed?? I am small in stature and lack any manly muscle to hold a gun in a way to deal with recoil issues.

Also looking at other ways out. Night night method looks like an option with a whole lot less drama but not sure.

Are you able to take it to a range? You should get comfortable with the gun.

 

[Jrmull1993]

Are you able to take it to a range? You should get comfortable with the gun.

Couldn't agree more.

If you decide not to go to the range, as long as the firearm is pressed forward (presumably against your head) recoil will not be an issue.

What type of 9mm handgun. A full sized 9mm such as a Springfield XD will not have enough recoil to be any sort of issue.

Also be careful talking about owning that on this forum, there are alot of LEOs on here who would love to pounce at the opportunity to take your rights away from you.

 

[summers]

So I am hoping to purchase a 9 mm handgun and hollow point bullets. Since I have never shot a gun before I have questions and concerns. There is only one chance to do this right. Can anyone comment on recoil of the gun please. If I aim at the right area and pull the trigger will recoil cause the bullet trajectory to change thus missing where I aimed?? I am small in stature and lack any manly muscle to hold a gun in a way to deal with recoil issues.

Also looking at other ways out. Night night method looks like an option with a whole lot less drama but not sure.

1. probably better to get a 10mm or 45acp.
2. recoil depends on the size/weight of the gun. A glock 17 (9mm) (big/heavy) has little recoil. A DB9 (9mm) (mini/pocket gun) has a lot. The main factor is weight - the heavier the gun, the less the recoil. Another factor is the height of the slide - basically the higher the barrel is above your hand, the more the recoil. In general, 9mm recoil isn't that bad except on the smallest of guns.
3. Recoil will not affect where the bullet goes. The main factor in missing is moving the gun when you pull the trigger. Basically, this means the lighter the trigger pull, the better.
4. There are several very effective and peaceful chemical methods. Anything that causes a loss of blood flow or oxygen has the potential to cause major brain damage if not successful. Do a lot of research on any method you are considering.

 

[SiroccoSousse]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I just wanted to point out how absurdly inflated the wound cavity becomes when this guy fires 3" 00 buck into the ballistic dummy (and not even a near-contact shot). Whenever I start to get paranoid about somehow missing the brainstem with an intraoral shotgun hit, I watch this vid and take comfort in the fact that even if the pellets somehow miss, the sheer force of the expanding gasses being shoved into the wound are more than likely going to pop my head like a balloon anyways

 

[lifeisbutadream]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I just wanted to point out how absurdly inflated the wound cavity becomes when this guy fires 3" 00 buck into the ballistic dummy (and not even a near-contact shot). Whenever I start to get paranoid about somehow missing the brainstem with an intraoral shotgun hit, I watch this vid and take comfort in the fact that even if the pellets somehow miss, the sheer force of the expanding gasses being shoved into the wound are more than likely going to pop my head like a balloon anyways

The only ways to fail with a shotgun like that to the head is, i think, if the gun doesn't shoot, probably because you don't know how to use it, or - most likely - placing it under the jaw or elsewhere - and flinching and thus shooting off the front of our face or something. Placed in the mouth pointed slightly upward it is very hard for me to conceive of it failing.

 

[summers]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I just wanted to point out how absurdly inflated the wound cavity becomes when this guy fires 3" 00 buck into the ballistic dummy (and not even a near-contact shot). Whenever I start to get paranoid about somehow missing the brainstem with an intraoral shotgun hit, I watch this vid and take comfort in the fact that even if the pellets somehow miss, the sheer force of the expanding gasses being shoved into the wound are more than likely going to pop my head like a balloon anyways

Heart is more lethal than the brain. This about it this way, puncturing the heart with the the instrument used for a lobotomy would be fatal.

 

[Jrmull1993]

Heart is more lethal than the brain. This about it this way, puncturing the heart with the the instrument used for a lobotomy would be fatal.

If you hit the brain properly by either destroying the brainstem, seperating spinal connective tissue and/or penetrating both hemispheres of the brain death is guaranteed and painless. (The brain is not capable of feeling pain)

The heart when hit properly will also be a guarenteed death, but will not be instantaneous, and will more than likely be painful.

 

[Rounded Apathy]

Not sure if this warrants its own post - will make one if so - but I'm wondering about the potential of buying a handgun and bullets in the US as a foreigner. Cursory research shows some states (AZ maybe the best?) have lax laws that allow private sales, and poking around marketplace websites seems to indicate that while many sellers will want some ID/proof of citizenship, not all will.

Any tips or info on this greatly appreciated.

 

[Barry]

Hey guys, despite living in Europe, getting a gun isn't an issue but I have trouble finding the right ammo. Does anyone know the best 12 ga ammo that can be bought in Europe?

 

[lifeisbutadream]

Not sure if this warrants its own post - will make one if so - but I'm wondering about the potential of buying a handgun and bullets in the US as a foreigner. Cursory research shows some states (AZ maybe the best?) have lax laws that allow private sales, and poking around marketplace websites seems to indicate that while many sellers will want some ID/proof of citizenship, not all will.

Any tips or info on this greatly appreciated.

i know someone from China with a green card looked into it in AZ and they told her yes she can buy a gun in a gun store.

 

[summers]

Not sure if this warrants its own post - will make one if so - but I'm wondering about the potential of buying a handgun and bullets in the US as a foreigner. Cursory research shows some states (AZ maybe the best?) have lax laws that allow private sales, and poking around marketplace websites seems to indicate that while many sellers will want some ID/proof of citizenship, not all will.

Any tips or info on this greatly appreciated.

You can buy bullets in almost all states with no id, and no residency requirements. Certain states do require id and/or a license for handgun ammo.

For firearms, you legally have to resident of the US to buy a gun from a dealer, but you don't have to be a resident of the state you're purchasing the gun in. For example, if you're a resident of Arizona, you can go to Texas to buy a gun through a dealer. Legally, you can't buy a gun if you're not a legal US resident.

For private sales, you and the seller have to be a residents of the same state, and the transaction has to take place in the state of residence. The degree to which people actually care, or bother to check id varies person to person. The best thing if you're looking to buy privately is make sure your rental car has plates from the state you're looking to make the sale in.

i know someone from China with a green card looked into it in AZ and they told her yes she can buy a gun in a gun store.

Purchasing and owning guns in the US depends on residency, not citizenship. People with greencards have all the same rights as citizens when it comes to firearms. I'm not sure if that extends to work visas.

 

[SiroccoSousse]

The only ways to fail with a shotgun like that to the head is, i think, if the gun doesn't shoot, probably because you don't know how to use it, or - most likely - placing it under the jaw or elsewhere - and flinching and thus shooting off the front of our face or something. Placed in the mouth pointed slightly upward it is very hard for me to conceive of it failing.

I agree, rationally speaking I can't really think of any ways to mess up an intraoral suicide shot. But paranoia from SI is a huge hurdle for me so having resources to ground me in reality helps me fend off all that irrational fear of the unknown :)

Heart is more lethal than the brain. This about it this way, puncturing the heart with the the instrument used for a lobotomy would be fatal.

A well-placed shot in either spot ought to be lethal, but from what I've researched destroying the brain stem is basically the quickest possible way for a human to die. With a shot to the heart, the entire brain is left intact, including the bits that make you conscious and make you feel pain; you'll die, but probably in agony. Versus destroying the brain stem, which should immediately knock a person "unconscious" and make them incapable of awareness or feeling pain.

Also, here are some excerpts from relevant Quora posts I've collected. I'm not very forsightful and didn't think to copy links to the original posts for these, so sorry for the lack of sources. They should be easy enough to find with a little bit of Googling, I didn't have to dig too much. And ofc take the information here with a pinch of salt, this is Quora after all ;) Also, if there are any posts locked behild Quora+ or whatever the fuck they call it, let me know and I'll copy it for you here. I'm probably too new for DMs still, unfortunately.

Do you die instantly from a gun shot to the head? Do you feel any pain at all?

The fastest nerve impulses in the body are carried by myelinated nerve fibers and travel at up to 150 m/sec, or 336 mph. Pain signals transmitted by unmyelinated fibers travel much slower than that. A 124 grain bullet fired from a modern semiautomatic 9mm pistol has a muzzle speed of around 320 m/s, or 720 mph. If someone is shot point blank in the head with the bullet penetrating the brainstem, the bullet gets there before the nerve impulses do. In such conditions, it is probably painless, and the person getting shot won't even hear it, because auditory signals are propagated by nerves too.

With that in mind, when people shoot each other or themselves, quite often it doesn't happen the way it was intended. If they jerk the trigger and the trajectory is high, for instance, and the bullet enters the skull but does not damage the deep structures of the brain, it might be very painful indeed, not to mention messy. The internet is full of gory photos of people who tried to commit suicide by shotgun and ended up blowing their faces off and surviving. The unfortunate gunshot victim may end up very much alive and fully conscious but disfigured or severely and permanently disabled, completely dependent on others for their survival and living in a nursing home.

Would a shotgun blast to the head at point blank range to the temple instantly kill you even though you didn't hit the brain stem (gas expansion)?

In 1974/75, at a law enforcement symposium, I asked the retired coroner for San Bernadino County, California which types of gunshot wounds were the most fatal. Without hesitation he said shotgun wounds were the most fatal. An ER doctor on the panel agreed. To keep this short, the ER doctor said a close range shotgun hit to the head with slugs, buckshot or even birdshot was almost always (90%) fatal, and from almost any angle.

The exception, according to the ER doctor are suicide attempts who place the muzzle under the chin versus to the roof of the mouth. The under-the-chin suicides sometimes survive the initial blast. If they survive to reach ICU they have a couple of years of facial restoration surgeries ahead. And a few have survived because they were hit at an oblique angle that caused much less damage, but most of those had serious impairments as a result.

Both of them agreed that contact shotgun wounds more resembled injuries from an artillery shell or explosive device than a typical gunshot wound.

At that time the coroner said a shotgun within two feet of the head usually resulted in something that looked like a dropped watermelon.

Side note: The body may survive if the brain stem is not severely damaged. The heart and respiration may continue, but such a condition leaves the body to die slowly of dehydration and starvation without the higher brain functions. Such a person would be declared brain dead and life support (if any) removed because no recovery is possible.

Yes, more than a few people have survived shooting themselves in the head, the majority however do die. If you are concerned about shooting yourself in a way that results in no pain or should you survive but with no disability and disfigurement, you need to think about where you're aiming and with what kind of bullet. Location is the most critical factor in determining if a gunshot wound to the head is fatal. A shot through the brainstem is basically the most "instantaneous, lights out, painless" shot we know of. From the base of nostrils to the top of nose is inline with brainstem, and the ear basically sits right over the brainstem from the side, so a shot at the back of the mouth and angled upward so the bullet's trajectory is inline with where your nostrils and ear canal align would wreck the brainstem, assuming you don't angle the barrel of the gun slightly to one side of your mouth where it exits off center, is as "good, painless" shot you can get.
The next most important factor in determining if a shot is lethal is the amount of energy transferred to the body (measured in ft/Ibs). Ammunition designers approach this from a number of ways, like bullet caliber, velocity, mass, and shape. Energy is important because when a bullet encounters a body it slows down and all that energy is deposited in the body, which creates a shockwave around the bullet which is strong enough to instantly blend delicate organs like your brain (but not bone), and this happens around the cavity where the bullet itself punched through your body. The thing is if a bullet enters and then exits your body, it has not deposited all the energy it could, which means less internal damage and alot more external damage. If a bullet exits you have the chance to bleed to death which is VERY painful, not to mention it's left a visible, possibly disfigured hole in you. If the bullet slows down enough to stop in you, it will have deposited all its energy and not left a exit wound. Modern high quality nonfragmenting Jacked Hollow Points are designed to do this and more, when they enter the body they also expand making the bullet wider which guarantees even more damage.
Third, the larger the bullet caliber (width of the bullet before fired) the more lethal it's likely to be. Many people have taken their lives using the very common .22 caliber, but more people have survived using this caliber than any other (with varying amounts of disability and disfigurement). The 9mm and .45acp have far more lethality simply because they are alot wider than the .22, which on many occasions the .22 doesn't even penetrate the skull, and also the hollow points for the .22 are disproportionately weak. Shotgun rounds are often even wider than the .45, but have much, much more energy than 9mm or 45 handguns, so much so that they remove half a person's head or face when fired at any spot.
Shooting yourself in the heart can cause brain damage only through blood no longer being pumped to your brain, which would lead to damage and then death given enough time, but before you pass out from lack of blood to your brain, it will be fairly painful. Plus doctors can do alot more to keep you alive if your heart's damaged vs your brain.
A carefully placed shot through the brainstem using a 9mm or .45acp jacked hollow point has the highest lethality while having the lowest probability of being disfiguring or painful

A bullet wound to the head is usually fatal but not always.

Like mentioned above hitting the skull (not the face or jaw) with a high velocity round. The round will impart its energy as a shock wave through the brain matter that will essentially destroy it, as the brain has the consistency of a blancmange (jelly and custard).

The bullet strike will be painless because the speed of the destruction of the brain matter is faster than the body can transmit the pain signal so you wont feel the first strike to the flesh of your head as the brain behind it gets destroyed before the pain signal gets there.

In essence one moment you are alive and aware the next is like you never existed

It is not always the case that someone dies instantly from a gunshot wound to the head. The timing of death and even potential for survival depends on a few things:

Location, location, location. The brainstem is the Grand Central Station for the nervous system - it directly controls consciousness, breathing, heart rate, and blood pressure, among other functions. If you destroy the brainstem, death is as instantaneous as possible. The brainstem is well protected, sitting in the base of the skull just above the neck surrounded by lots of strong, thick bone as well as other brain tissue. In the case of Bob Dwyer (and many others who commit suicide), a GSW in the back of the mouth or from the underside of the jaw pointed upward will destroy the brainstem as the bullet tears through this area, causing instantaneous death.

Ballistics.

Type of ammunition. As threatening as a full metal jacket bullet sounds, the hard metal that surrounds the softer lead is designed to withstand deforming forces and will pass more cleanly through human tissues. More destructive are hollow points and other bullets that are designed to fragment or mushroom on impact. Similarly, a shotgun causes more widespread damage from the scatter of the several pieces of shot.

Inertia of the bullet. Gunpowder transfers energy to the bullet which then transfers energy to the bone, brain, and other tissues on impact. More gunpowder = more energy = more destructive power. This is why a sniper shot is more lethal than a .22, all other things being equal.

Instantaneous death by GSW always implies brainstem injury, either by direct bullet trajectory, fragment of bullet or bone destroying the tissue, or energy transference from a high velocity round passing close enough to the brainstem to kill the victim.

Delayed, but rapid death from a GSW can come from hemorrhage or brain swelling (which ultimately compresses the brainstem). If you survive all of that, death can still come later on by infection or as a complication of the resulting disabilities; in the U.S., a coroner will still list the cause of death as being complications from a GSW in many cases.

A GSW to the head can be survived if you have a low velocity bullet that causes only localized damage to a part of the brain well away from the brainstem. Shooting yourself in the temple with a pistol isn't likely to cause immediate death. Doesn't mean it's a great idea, by any means, but it is less likely to kill you.

 

[akana]

pretty sure in the UK you need a license for whatever gun

 

[SiroccoSousse]

Also worth mentioning is that snipers are apparently trained to aim for the "T" zone of a gunman when hostages are at gunpoint, as it's such an immediate death there's much less risk of the hostile's body involuntarily pulling the trigger. As you can probably guess, the center of the "T" zone is directly in front of the brain stem.

When It Needs to Be One and Done: Aiming for the T-Zone in Hostage Situations (Video) :: Guns.com

Benelli is remanufacturing them here in the US and poof, suddenly all those evil features become American as apple pie and 1911s. Here we have the M4 H20.

www.guns.com

 

[Mocon33]

I was just reading about Ernest Hemingways suicide, both barrels of a 12 gauge to the temple. Not a brainstem shot, but with the top half of his head removed, I don't think he was around long enough to suffer.

 

[Jrmull1993]

I was just reading about Ernest Hemingways suicide, both barrels of a 12 gauge to the temple. Not a brainstem shot, but with the top half of his head removed, I don't think he was around long enough to suffer.

A dual barrel 12ga at point blank to the head does not need to hit the brainstem to cause immediate death. Both hemispheres of the brain will immediately turn to pulp.

 

[DobryDen]

How do you hold a shotgun to shoot yourself? Its quite long. Please help me understand. I like the lethality of a shotgun vs handgun, and I got one to CTB but should never figure out how to hold it. Was afraid it would slip and I'm miss the shot and end up surviving injured. I got a handgun and my plan so far is to stand in the ocean with weighted vest. Shoot myself in the head and if my body hasn't perished yet, I expect the weights will pull me down and I will effectively drown.

Here's another diagram for those wondering where the brainstem is relative to the other features of your head. Aim for the pink circle:

View attachment 4213Does anyone have a diagram of the area in the mouth you want aim. This diagram is great, but I'd LOVE to have a visual of the back of the throat and roof of mouth to see where exactly in my mouth to place the muzzle. Thanks

 

[Jrmull1993]

Depends on whether your shooting yourself in the forehead, temple, thru the mouth, or any other variation.

When the muzzle of the barrel is pressed firmly against the body and the trigger is squeezed the projectile will make impact before the recoil of the firearm moves out of trajectory.

I suggest you watch Ronnie McNutt's suicide video, it's pretty self explanatory.

Facebook Live Suicide Video: Man shoots himself in the head with a shotgun

A 33-year-old Army veteran from Mississippi who served in Iraq shot himself in the head live on Facebook

globalazmedia.com

 

[Mocon33]

How do you hold a shotgun to shoot yourself? Its quite long. Please help me understand. I like the lethality of a shotgun vs handgun, and I got one to CTB but should never figure out how to hold it. Was afraid it would slip and I'm miss the shot and end up surviving injured. I got a handgun and my plan so far is to stand in the ocean with weighted vest. Shoot myself in the head and if my body hasn't perished yet, I expect the weights will pull me down and I will effectively drown.

I can tell you what Hemmingway did. Seated in a chair, he placed the butt on the floor and wedged it against something so it would be stable. Leaned over, placed his head against the barrels, and reached down with one arm to pull the triggers.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

I'm sure I'll chime in more as the thread progresses, and generally make my usual verbose nuisance of myself, but I'll start with this:

Hollywood representations of gun suicides are a very, very bad template to follow. Shooting yourself in the temple, or holding the gun under your chin, is a BAD idea, for either pistol or long-gun attempts. The odds are good you won't hit the all-important brainstem, but will instead blow out your frontal lobe and end up a vegetable. Some people have even blown off the entire front of their face and lived --and been able to survive without a life support machine. If you think your life is bad now...

These Hollywood aimpoints are probably the majority of why gun suicide statistics show only an 82.5% success rate rather than 100%.

I'll collect a few more thoughts and be back later.

@TiredHorse is right, don't make a mistake! "WARNING EXTREMELY GRAPHIC CONTENT BELOW]!!!!!

Spoiler

 

[Jrmull1993]

@TiredHorse is right, don't make a mistake! "WARNING EXTREMELY GRAPHIC CONTENT BELOW]!!!!!

Exactly why under the chin shot is a poor shot placement. Unfortunately the guy in that picture is alive, there are a few medical journal articles on this case.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

Exactly why under the chin shot is a poor shot placement. Unfortunately the guy in that picture is alive, there are a few medical journal articles on this case.

He's still alive!!! Now that is frightening!

 

[Jrmull1993]

He's still alive!!! Now that is frightening!

I couldn't find the medical journal articles on this, but I found a synopsis of this particular case:

Gunshot Wound to the Face

Gunshot wound to the face (young adult man). On emergency medical services arrival patient was breathing spontaneously and attempting to speak. The

www.documentingreality.com

 

[LONE WOLF.]

I couldn't find the medical journal articles on this, but I found a synopsis of this particular case:

Gunshot Wound to the Face

Gunshot wound to the face (young adult man). On emergency medical services arrival patient was breathing spontaneously and attempting to speak. The

www.documentingreality.com

I can't believe that the Quack's managed to put that mess back together!

Spoiler

 

[Ixadavt]

So- is it "normal" to be getting hollow point bullets? I obviously don't want to get any sort of questions or problems.... so is it weird if I just come into a gun store buy a gun and some hollow points and just head on out? Sorry probably a stupid question but that's basically what I would be doing.

No one has ever raised an eyebrow to me.

 

[summers]

@TiredHorse is right, don't make a mistake! "WARNING EXTREMELY GRAPHIC CONTENT BELOW]!!!!!

This is exactly why I would rather shoot myself in the heart and possibly suffer for a few mins. The heart is guaranteed death, maybe not instant, but not too long either.

How do you hold a shotgun to shoot yourself? Its quite long. Please help me understand. I like the lethality of a shotgun vs handgun, and I got one to CTB but should never figure out how to hold it. Was afraid it would slip and I'm miss the shot and end up surviving injured. I got a handgun and my plan so far is to stand in the ocean with weighted vest. Shoot myself in the head and if my body hasn't perished yet, I expect the weights will pull me down and I will effectively drown.

Saw off enough of the barrel so you can handle it easily. This is technically illegal, but so is suicide, and discharging a firearm in most cities. Not like you're going to be a model citizen haha.