Venting Freedom must always be above.

[Eren]

I am a very liberal person, I do not understand why others impose their morals.

If a person of legal age wants to end his life, who are the others to prevent it? You can try to persuade that person, try to convince them not to do that, but I consider that preventing it by force is really immoral. The only restriction should be the age of majority.

In a free society, anyone could buy N or any other substance in a pharmacy near their home, cheaply, without having to go to the black market and without the fear of being sent to a psychiatric center against their will.

They say it is to save lives, but I do not consider that life is more important than freedom. The only limit that an adult's freedom must have is not to harm others.

 

[lem]

What about the minors, that are suffering?

 

[Eren]

What about the minors, that are suffering?

It is complicated, minors cannot make some important decisions in their lives, since they are supervised by their parents. This is because in principle they are not mature enough to make these decisions (I do not mean only suicide, also drugs or any important decision)

Anyway, this is debatable, although I do consider that there should be a minimum age.

 

[lem]

It is complicated, minors cannot make some important decisions in their lives, since they are supervised by their parents. This is because in principle they are not mature enough to make these decisions (I do not mean only suicide, also drugs or any important decision)

Anyway, this is debatable, although I do consider that there should be a minimum age.

So the older people get the easy death, while the younger people have to hang themselves? I got rejected by the fucking Pegasos, because I'm mentally ill, and too young, but I suffer more than David Goodall did, who got an easy death. You are doing to minors, what the Pegasos did to me.

 

[MyChoiceToLeave]

The answer is greed. Society wants to get as much from you as possible while you are alive just because they might have given you a free education in public school. There is no profit in a person being dead outside of the funeral industry. If you are alive, they can continue to experiment on you with different psychiatric medications that just make most people worse and worse. You become hooked into Big Pharma's trap and they make a ridiculous amount of money off of you.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I get what you're saying but another reason substances like N may be hard to obtain is because of how easily they could be used for homicide instead of suicide. A lot of innocent people who don't want to CTB could end up getting poisoned by the terrible people out there if any such substance was so widely available and easy to obtain. Sure we could try our best to punish someone for attempting to do so but some people really just don't care about the consequences.

 

[lem]

I get what you're saying but another reason substances like N may be hard to obtain is because of how easily they could be used for homicide instead of suicide. A lot of innocent people who don't want to CTB could end up getting poisoned by the terrible people out there if any such substance was so widely available and easy to obtain. Sure we could try our best to punish someone for attempting to do so but some people really just don't care.

People can use Sarco machines, in which a person presses the button, while inside, which makes homicide impossible.

 

[Eren]

So the older people get the easy death, while the younger people have to hang themselves? I got rejected by the fucking Pegasos, because I'm mentally ill, and too young, but I suffer more than David Goodall did, who got an easy death. You are doing to minors, what the Pegasos did to me.

I just want to say that a minor is under the guardianship of their parents, and they are the ones who make the important decisions for their children. In any case, if a minor has an incurable disease (physical or mental) that greatly reduces their quality of life, there should be euthanasia for those minors if they so wish. But they will always need the permission of their parents. not being adults.

This does not mean that I am in favor of the suffering of minors, I am very sorry for your situation. In addition, a child under 11 is not the same as a child under 17, maybe someone who is 16 years old is already mature enough to make that decision, or maybe not, this is what I say is debatable, but in any case there should be a minimum age.

 

[lem]

I just want to say that a minor is under the guardianship of their parents, and they are the ones who make the important decisions for their children. In any case, if a minor has an incurable disease (physical or mental) that greatly reduces their quality of life, there should be euthanasia for those minors if they so wish. But they will always need the permission of their parents. not being adults.

This does not mean that I am in favor of the suffering of minors, I am very sorry for your situation. In addition, a child under 11 is not the same as a child under 17, maybe someone who is 16 years old is already mature enough to make that decision, or maybe not, this is what I say is debatable, but in any case there should be a minimum age.

What about minors, who's parents are prolifers?
I'm an adult btw, but the fucking Pegasos favors those, that are above 50 years of age, which sucks.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

People can use Sarco machines, in which a person presses the button, while inside, which makes homicide impossible.

Someone could also use those machines to torture someone by trapping someone who does not wish to die in one of them until they agree to some nefarious demands.

 

[Eren]

I get what you're saying but another reason substances like N may be hard to obtain is because of how easily they could be used for homicide instead of suicide. A lot of innocent people who don't want to CTB could end up getting poisoned by the terrible people out there if any such substance was so widely available and easy to obtain. Sure we could try our best to punish someone for attempting to do so but some people really just don't care about the consequences.

From what I've read, you have to drink quite a lot of N to die, plus it tastes really nasty. I do not believe that someone can intoxicate someone without realizing how it can happen with other substances.

Although it does seem a valid point to me, it could be an argument, in that case, N could be prohibited for the general public, but euthanasia could be legal without any type of control, that is, doctors could obtain it and euthanize whoever wanted.

 

[lem]

Someone could also use those machines to torture someone by trapping someone who does not wish to die in one of them until they agree to some nefarious demands.

The Sarco machines would be in the euthanasia clinics, where the other people can see what's happening.

 

[Eren]

What about minors, who's parents are prolifers?
I'm an adult btw, but the fucking Pegasos favors those, that are above 50 years of age, which sucks.

If your parents are pro-life, there's not much you can do other than wait until you are of age (or do it on your own)

Parents can also make other decisions against the will of the minor (school, type of education etc ...) so if this happens, it is really the fault of the minor's parents.

In any case, I emphasize that there must be a minimum age to apply euthanasia or assisted suicide. What that age should be?, I could debate it.

As for your case, if you are an adult no one should interfere with it ... obviously a limit of +50 years is absurd.

The Sarco machines would be in the euthanasia clinics, where the other people can see what's happening.

He means that a kidnapper could use N as a weapon.

 

[lem]

If your parents are pro-life, there's not much you can do other than wait until you are of age (or do it on your own)

Parents can also make other decisions against the will of the minor (school, type of education etc ...) so if this happens, it is really the fault of the minor's parents.

In any case, I emphasize that there must be a minimum age to apply euthanasia or assisted suicide. What that age should be?, I could debate it.

As for your case, if you are an adult no one should interfere with it ... obviously a limit of +50 years is absurd.

But minors can suffer just as much, as the adults, so you're forcing the minors to hang themselves, which is cruel.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Although it does seem a valid point to me, it could be an argument, in that case, N could be prohibited for the general public, but euthanasia could be legal without any type of control, that is, doctors could obtain it and euthanize whoever wanted.

Yeah, my point is just that any method that can easily take ones own life can also almost just as easily be repurposed into taking someone else's.It sucks, but horrible people are why we're all here in the first place...

The Sarco machines would be in the euthanasia clinics, where the other people can see what's happening.

There's really no guarantee of that either. The inventor has said before they planned to make it so anyone would be able to 3D print one from home... The thought of legalized euthanasia clinics does seem like a nice idea though, but even that could be abused. Who knows how many mafia or gang members could coerce people to kill themselves there in order to shut them up?

 

[lem]

Yeah, my point is just that any method that can easily take ones own life can also almost just as easily be repurposed into taking someone else's.It sucks, but horrible people are why we're all here in the first place...



There's really no guarantee of that either. The inventor has said before they planned to make it so anyone would be able to 3D print one from home... The thought of legalized euthanasia clinics does seem like a nice idea though, but even that could be abused. Who knows how many mafia or gang members could coerce people to kill themselves there in order to shut them up?

The mafia can abuse people, even without the euthanasia clinics.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

The mafia can abuse people, even without the euthanasia clinics.

That's very true but euthanasia clinics would specifically give them a very easy way to dispose of anyone they don't like by intimidating them hard enough into walking in and "volunteering" to CTB.

 

[lem]

That's very true but euthanasia clinics would specifically give them a very easy way to dispose of anyone they don't like by intimidating them hard enough into walking in and "volunteering" to CTB.

So you want to make suicide difficult, so that people would have to endure more abuse?

 

[Lmd]

It's incredible how people are disconected from reality on this forum. Maybe because I saw a lot of people recovering or keep trying for me doing such a thing like "legalize" suicide it's crazy. This is not about free will. Majority of people that cbt have problems that can be solved some way or other. It's SAD that we have to go to this extreme because we can't achieve the things we need (money, love, whatever it is). If you cbt because you can't afford a decent life you are not choosing anything, if you cbt because you don't have access to a decente psichologist you aren't choosing anything, if you have a trauma that you cannot overcome you aren't choosing anything, etc. Of course people have to try to prevent it. The goal should be help people with their problems no let them kill themselfs like their lifes don't matter.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

So you want to make suicide harder, so that people would more abuse?

I'm not making it any easier or harder I'm technically just telling it like it is. I would like it to be easier as much as the next guy around here but if I could magically make complex things easier I'd probably also not even want to CTB at that point. My points are just some of the reasons that other people will use and probably win favor with as to why these methods aren't gonna get any more legal than they already are. That's why we're unfortunately going to have to rely on more difficult methods. It's really tough I know and I so wish it was not that way but if it were that easy we wouldn't even need this place.

 

[lem]

It's incredible how people are disconected from reality on this forum. Maybe because I saw a lot of people recovering or keep trying for me doing such a thing like "legalize" suicide it's crazy. This is not about free will. Majority of people that cbt have problems that can be solved some way or other. It's SAD that we have to go to this extreme because we can't achieve the things we need (money, love, whatever it is). If you cbt because you can't afford a decent life you are not choosing anything, if you cbt because you don't have access to a decente psichologist you aren't choosing anything, if you have a trauma that you cannot overcome you aren't choosing anything, etc. Of course people have to try to prevent it. The goal should be help people with their problems no let them kill themselfs like their lifes don't matter.

Let the people decide themselves, whether they want to live.

 

[Eren]

It's incredible how people are disconected from reality on this forum. Maybe because I saw a lot of people recovering or keep trying for me doing such a thing like "legalize" suicide it's crazy. This is not about free will. Majority of people that cbt have problems that can be solved some way or other. It's SAD that we have to go to this extreme because we can't achieve the things we need (money, love, whatever it is). If you cbt because you can't afford a decent life you are not choosing anything, if you cbt because you don't have access to a decente psichologist you aren't choosing anything, if you have a trauma that you cannot overcome you aren't choosing anything, etc. Of course people have to try to prevent it. The goal should be help people with their problems no let them kill themselfs like their lifes don't matter.

I do not agree, since many problems are not solvable, at most you can live with them. Also, the severity of many problems is subjective.

For example, I am autistic (asperger) is something that will accompany me until the day I die, many people would say that it is not a sufficient reason, that other people with autism love life, but that is not an argument, if for That person is okay to live with autism, does it have to be okay for me too?

I don't think that anyone's suicide should be prevented (by force) in any way.

 

[lem]

I'm not making it any easier or harder I'm technically just telling it like it is. I would like it to be easier as much as the next guy around here but if I could magically make complex things easier I'd probably also not even want to CTB at that point. My points are just some of the reasons that other people will use and probably win favor with as to why these methods aren't gonna get any more legal than they already are. That's why we're unfortunately going to have to rely on more difficult methods. It's really tough I know and I so wish it was not that way but if it were that easy we wouldn't even need this place.

Suicide clinics would make world a better place, despite what you said about mafia, and so forth.

 

[Lmd]

I do not agree, since many problems are not solvable, at most you can live with them. Also, the severity of many problems is subjective.

For example, I am autistic (asperger) is something that will accompany me until the day I die, many people would say that it is not a sufficient reason, that other people with autism love life, but that is not an argument, if for That person is okay to live with autism, does it have to be okay for me too?

I don't think that anyone's suicide should be prevented (by force) in any way.

Of course there are not solvable problems but you can't just put everyone on the same sack and right now there isn't a way to measure what is acceptable and what not

 

[cyberlordsumit]

So you want to make suicide difficult, so that people would have to endure more abuse?

Terminal illness supersedes any age.

Trauma in Children (less than 16 years) may be able to have solutions through therapy.

Most teen issues as far as I've seen are bullying, relationship issues, friendship stuff which they can tackle or cope with.

i think even if suicide was legal, there should be a fine line as to who can just waltz in and declare they wanna die. most children need solutions to their issues, not death.
And yes, If only Abuse is in question, Call the authorities amd end the abuse.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Suicide clinics would make world a better place, despite what you said about mafia, and so forth.

Oh I'm not really saying they won't, but good luck getting other people to see that. There's probably a bunch of other arguments I can't even think of that people would use to make sure this never happens.

Besides, suicide being fully embraced doesn't necessarily mean the world is a better place. I mean it could be if the world itself were already perfect but look at Futurama as an example. They have suicide booths that are as common as phone booths used to be but that's only because their world is a lot like ours yet in some ways so much worse that suicide is actually a necessary form of population control. Maybe this could be our ticket into mainstream opinion though. Like "Hey if we all work together we can make the world so much worse and overpopulate so hard, the people will see that they HAVE to let us kill ourselves because we have all become that much of a burden that takes too much effort for them to do it themselves!". This is all conjecture though.

 

[Deleted member 1496]

I do not understand why others impose their morals.

I don't know why people think their values, preferences, or decisions should be anyone else's values, preferences, or decisions. In a way, they're saying that our choices are wrong or ignorant, that they know more about our individual situations, limitations, resiliency, effort, damages, wants, etc. than our own selves. For someone who's never met me, you, or the majority of people who are suicidal on this global forum, that's pretty arrogant of them. So maybe the answer is arrogance.

Of course people have to try to prevent it. The goal should be help people with their problems no let them kill themselfs like their lifes don't matter.

Individual choice matters. Should anyone be choosing what someone else's major in college is, based upon what earning potential, stability, enjoyment, or any other criteria someone or society deems is important? Their major matters. How about religion or who someone marries? Those matters a lot. But that doesn't mean I or anyone else should make it a goal to remove choices from them so that they might make a "better" choice. And you're assuming death is a bad thing and life is a good thing: maybe, maybe not. Others shouldn't assume and decide that for me (or anyone), especially when they aren't me living my life.


The pro-life/no-choice arrogance reminds me of the arrogance where one country sees a different group as uncivilized savages who need to be forcibly "enlightened". They think they know what's best. Yet those who remove choice have chosen that choice is not acceptable.

 

[melp]

I am in favor of legalizing some form of suicide for everyone. A hybrid criterion regarding age, life expectancy and perceived discomfort should be set. It should be something like a clinic, formalized like a wedding or perhaps an application. For this random checks and that's it. There will be some abuse, but I don't believe we're that bad and no one will be watching over it.

 

[lem]

I am in favor of legalizing some form of suicide for everyone. A hybrid criterion regarding age, life expectancy and perceived discomfort should be set. It should be something like a clinic, formalized like a wedding or perhaps an application. For this random checks and that's it. There will be some abuse, but I don't believe we're that bad and no one will be watching over it.

Who would you reject?

 

[melp]

The less the criteria indicate validity, the more conditions you have to meet. I would give the option to everyone, but some could faster. Even a healthy and wealthy person may have access, but for example, for a while, he or she has to go to therapy, take medication or something like that.