TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 7,516
Over the years through time and time, these forced-lifers (aka pro-lifers), will continue and always use the already debunked and disprovened argument that "It's easy for someone to CTB!", while ignorantly and obtusely ignoring the facts, the details, statistics, and other things, arguing in disingenuity with their position! So with that said, while this is a previously already through time and time again, debunked and disproven through evidence, I had some other new insights to add to further debunk this trite, old and tired argument that they (forced-lifers) use, and also partly to vent (hence I wrote this thread here).
So to start things off, many of these forced-lifers always claim "it's easy for oneself to CTB!" without clarifying or supporting their claim, while ignoring the details and factors such as statistics of those who failed to the number of those who (including those who eventually) succeed at CTB'ing. Also, then there are the ad hominems whenever someone presents an counter-example such as them failing an attempt, being sectioned (detained, locked up in a psych ward or detention center), and incurring all the consequences that follow said failed attempt, but I won't go off on that tangent because that is another matter altgoether.
Anyways, back to the argument, which is even if we do consider the ones that do succeed in their CTB attempt, then those who choose to do to so, greatly inconvenience those around them, by involuntarily involving "unwilling participants" in their attempt! Of course, not all who choose to go do so, but those who are desperate enough and/or don't have better options end up doing so! Ironically, the same people who disingenuously claim that it is easy to CTB, also get really upset at those who do inadvertently use such desperate, yet reliable and also brutal means to go, leaving a mess for them! I would even wager that if things become nearly impossible (not likely in the moment, but in the late future, it is possible and for the sake of argument, suppose it is) to CTB, or such that the amount of people who "successfully" CTB drops to maybe a fraction (1/10th) of the amount of people who do, even these disingenuous forced-lifers will still latch onto the claim of "it's easy to CTB", while ignoring all the details and difficulty, it is for someone to do so. They also seem to conveniently ignore the fact that over the last decade or so, maybe more, that the State has increased it's paternalistic measures and policies to make it harder and harder for people to CTB reliably, let alone peacefully, so that also further debunks their argument of it being easy to CTB!
Analogy to their claim of "but it's easy to CTB! (if someone wants out badly enough!)"
From their claim of being easy to CTB, would be akin to ignorantly claiming that statewide (and possibly nationwide) abortion bans don't stop people from actually seeking an abortion. That's like saying, in the US, said state (we'll consider the state of Texas for context – again, just as an example) bans abortions as well as having laws on the book to prosecute those who travel out of state to get an abortion. Now, suppose some ignorant person were to claim, but it doesn't stop those who are determined to do it, either to do so privately (DIY abortion with unnecessary risk and harm, varying results, possibly worse circumstances to said woman's health and well-being), going in secrecy, and other nonsensical claims about how an abortion ban doesn't stop people from trying and succeeding. Of course, most of society and those who even some common sense would vilify and condemn said person from making such an outlandish claim, even call said person some "-ism" names (ad hominem) for even bothering to have such an ignorant take! The point is, when it comes to other things not tied to CTB method feasibility, people become intellectually honest or would be less likely to argue in bad faith, but yet when it comes to CTB or method feasibility, they argue disingenuously and in bad faith!
Overall, in the end, there is no easy way to change such an ignorant perception, though again, I wrote this thread partly to vent, but also to present another extra insight (hence the counterargument). While this won't ever change many things, I still wrote this thread in hopes that maybe others here on Sasu could benefit from my further dissection and exposing of the inane and disingenuous argument that many forced-lifers use and continue to use, but also I'm just venting as well. At the end, the only things we have is ourselves and in the foreseeable future, we know the reality of CTB (as here in our community at SaSu) and until society is ready to face reality, we will continue to sift out the bullshit lies in society, and in our small community here, continue to find solace through company and take the solitary path to peace in whatever decision we make. I myself, am not phased by such nonsense in the real world, and would not entertain such thoughts, and again, I am just writing the threads I do for knowledge for others on here, but also sharing my perspective.
So to start things off, many of these forced-lifers always claim "it's easy for oneself to CTB!" without clarifying or supporting their claim, while ignoring the details and factors such as statistics of those who failed to the number of those who (including those who eventually) succeed at CTB'ing. Also, then there are the ad hominems whenever someone presents an counter-example such as them failing an attempt, being sectioned (detained, locked up in a psych ward or detention center), and incurring all the consequences that follow said failed attempt, but I won't go off on that tangent because that is another matter altgoether.
Anyways, back to the argument, which is even if we do consider the ones that do succeed in their CTB attempt, then those who choose to do to so, greatly inconvenience those around them, by involuntarily involving "unwilling participants" in their attempt! Of course, not all who choose to go do so, but those who are desperate enough and/or don't have better options end up doing so! Ironically, the same people who disingenuously claim that it is easy to CTB, also get really upset at those who do inadvertently use such desperate, yet reliable and also brutal means to go, leaving a mess for them! I would even wager that if things become nearly impossible (not likely in the moment, but in the late future, it is possible and for the sake of argument, suppose it is) to CTB, or such that the amount of people who "successfully" CTB drops to maybe a fraction (1/10th) of the amount of people who do, even these disingenuous forced-lifers will still latch onto the claim of "it's easy to CTB", while ignoring all the details and difficulty, it is for someone to do so. They also seem to conveniently ignore the fact that over the last decade or so, maybe more, that the State has increased it's paternalistic measures and policies to make it harder and harder for people to CTB reliably, let alone peacefully, so that also further debunks their argument of it being easy to CTB!
Analogy to their claim of "but it's easy to CTB! (if someone wants out badly enough!)"
From their claim of being easy to CTB, would be akin to ignorantly claiming that statewide (and possibly nationwide) abortion bans don't stop people from actually seeking an abortion. That's like saying, in the US, said state (we'll consider the state of Texas for context – again, just as an example) bans abortions as well as having laws on the book to prosecute those who travel out of state to get an abortion. Now, suppose some ignorant person were to claim, but it doesn't stop those who are determined to do it, either to do so privately (DIY abortion with unnecessary risk and harm, varying results, possibly worse circumstances to said woman's health and well-being), going in secrecy, and other nonsensical claims about how an abortion ban doesn't stop people from trying and succeeding. Of course, most of society and those who even some common sense would vilify and condemn said person from making such an outlandish claim, even call said person some "-ism" names (ad hominem) for even bothering to have such an ignorant take! The point is, when it comes to other things not tied to CTB method feasibility, people become intellectually honest or would be less likely to argue in bad faith, but yet when it comes to CTB or method feasibility, they argue disingenuously and in bad faith!
Overall, in the end, there is no easy way to change such an ignorant perception, though again, I wrote this thread partly to vent, but also to present another extra insight (hence the counterargument). While this won't ever change many things, I still wrote this thread in hopes that maybe others here on Sasu could benefit from my further dissection and exposing of the inane and disingenuous argument that many forced-lifers use and continue to use, but also I'm just venting as well. At the end, the only things we have is ourselves and in the foreseeable future, we know the reality of CTB (as here in our community at SaSu) and until society is ready to face reality, we will continue to sift out the bullshit lies in society, and in our small community here, continue to find solace through company and take the solitary path to peace in whatever decision we make. I myself, am not phased by such nonsense in the real world, and would not entertain such thoughts, and again, I am just writing the threads I do for knowledge for others on here, but also sharing my perspective.
