For those who believe in an afterlife / those who are spiritual

[CantDoIt]

Some sources say that it is possible to return to the same life without starting from birth. When people try but 'fail' to CTB, they might have actually succeeded but been sent back to that same moment, in an alternative timeline, with no memory of the afterlife. This is a far less punishing prospect than having to go back and re-live all the abuse from start. A third possibility is starting a different lifetime but facing similar challenges, which is really not desirable.

What overwhelmingly matters for this discussion is the broader narrative beyond the oh-so-familiar story of this one lifetime. While it is unclear for most people what is going on in the bigger picture, the absence of past-life memories is clearly by design, and does not address the question of whether this lifetime is 1) a situation forcibly imposed by a higher power or 2) a game played voluntarily. The notion of actually choosing this lifetime is a common NDE claim, and would obviously huge implications.

What is fairly clear from my research:
1) Death is not that big a deal and everyone will be fine... eventually.
2) Death of the body is not an end, so it is still wise to think of one's post-lifetime future.

It's good to know that everyone eventually reaches enlightenment. However, it's not great to know that I probably won't be able to this time. I don't necessarily mind reincarnation if I have the chance to do better but I feel like I already failed this life, as it were.

 

[CantDoIt]

If anyone from here reincarnates you have to remember this forum and then come back in 18 years to report back on your findings.

 

[CantDoIt]

Ive come to the conclusion that maybe it's possible we do choose our life circumstances and that some of us make the wrong decisions instead of choosing the wrong circumstances.

I cannot imagine how everything in my life happened the way it did unless that were the case. I think maybe I chose a life that would have allowed me to succeed BUT I was set up to be able to make every wrong decision for myself and in fact did that.

 

[foreverlanguish]

Because suicide is just as natural as dying via natural causes, I believe that there is no consequence to suicide unless you yourself believe there is, and therefore manifest it. As someone who is a spiritual agnostic and believes in the Many Worlds Interpretation theory (MWI), to me, if you truly think something bad will happen to you (e.g. a deity smiting you) after you kill yourself, it will probably happen because you believe it will. If you believe something good will happen to you, it will probably happen because you believe it will. I've heard of people who killed themselves and went off to their ideal afterlives as they intended to, but that's really up to you to believe. For all I know, there could be nothing after death, but until it happens, no one can really be 100% sure.

 

[tonyspitstain]

I don't think there would be any consequence.

I believe in rebirth, not exactly reincarnation. I think that once your consciousness ceases, once there is a new body available (a baby), you inhabit that consciousness. I don't necessarily believe in the continuity of a soul. But...

Have you ever felt that you've been here before? As a child I was super mature and patient but I had a very very difficult time dealing with immature children and adults. I had a huge sense of independence even as a toddler and sat up straight in my desk at pre-k and waved goodbye to my mom confidently. I would walk around grocery stores with curiosity and I wouldn't touch or wreck anything, just browse like an old lady lol. Later in life I faced a lot of issues with my parents. I knew what the outcome of the situation would be before it happened and I would beg them for help, beg for their attention. They would ignore me or tell me I was wrong, but I ended up being right. This happened with so many huge things like my education and health.

What's creepy for me to think about is how the past several thousand years passed so quickly and I was born into the middle or end of humanity. Like I just blinked or closed my eyes for five seconds and woke up here. It's weird to think that if rebirth is a possibility, you could wake up several thousand years from now. Does this make sense lol?

To be honest, if I knew with certainty that I could just wake up as someone else I would probably already be gone from this life. I feel like my consciousness is ready to move on to a different challenge. I definitely spend a lot of time maladaptive daydreaming about being someone else, but yeah maybe it's going to help me manifest my next life.

 

[Sunshine]

Fuck the reincarnation bullshit. Something really weird is going on in the afterlife.

People are forced to reincarnate or manipulated/gaslit.
Oh you have to suffer to grow! It's for your own good! Keep reincarnating!

Yeah? What exactly is there to learn from all this ugly terror and hardship? And once you've learned everything then what?
Furthermore, I do not wish to learn. I don't want to learn. I just want to feel good actually and I think it's sadistic that souls use our human egos like puppets for their own spiritual jerk-off "learning" experience if that is even true. I wish to never reincarnate again and to keep my ego, not to be absorbed.

 

[CantDoIt]

I don't think there would be any consequence.

I believe in rebirth, not exactly reincarnation. I think that once your consciousness ceases, once there is a new body available (a baby), you inhabit that consciousness. I don't necessarily believe in the continuity of a soul. But...

Have you ever felt that you've been here before? As a child I was super mature and patient but I had a very very difficult time dealing with immature children and adults. I had a huge sense of independence even as a toddler and sat up straight in my desk at pre-k and waved goodbye to my mom confidently. I would walk around grocery stores with curiosity and I wouldn't touch or wreck anything, just browse like an old lady lol. Later in life I faced a lot of issues with my parents. I knew what the outcome of the situation would be before it happened and I would beg them for help, beg for their attention. They would ignore me or tell me I was wrong, but I ended up being right. This happened with so many huge things like my education and health.

What's creepy for me to think about is how the past several thousand years passed so quickly and I was born into the middle or end of humanity. Like I just blinked or closed my eyes for five seconds and woke up here. It's weird to think that if rebirth is a possibility, you could wake up several thousand years from now. Does this make sense lol?

To be honest, if I knew with certainty that I could just wake up as someone else I would probably already be gone from this life. I feel like my consciousness is ready to move on to a different challenge. I definitely spend a lot of time maladaptive daydreaming about being someone else, but yeah maybe it's going to help me manifest my next life.

What is the difference between someone having a soul that continues versus being rebirthed? What continues in this case? Also conspiracy time but I think people who are suicidal dont tap into the supernatural stuff as well re guides or whatever else there is to prevent people knowing something exists afters / preventing them from ctb lmao

 

[bananaolympus]

I was an atheist for several years even when i attempted suicide i believed in nothingness, but i became a christian a year after my attempt ofc in my faith suicide is a sin but i don't think you are damned for eternity because jesus knows the pain of the sufferer, in my case he knows i suffer from something outside my control that i do want to live but my pain just increases, hope people like myself are judged for how they treated people and their actions towards others

 

[Monad]

I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife, but I do believe that if we return to the same state we were before we were born after death, then we could come into existence again. Not sure if I want that or not, but just something I've thought about.

I constantly think about starting my life over. How different it would be if I wasn't chronically online since I was 5 years old. If I actually tried to make relationships in my younger years. If I tried in school and did life differently. If I chose different paths.

Like many people, I don't seek suicide because I "love the thought of death" or because "I want to die." Truth be told, I don't want to die at all, I just don't want to suffer anymore. Chronic pain, mental pain, everything in life just feels stacked against me.

Tangent over? I digress.

All that to say, I'm not opposed to the thought of being born into a different existence at some point in the future or whatever, as I don't necessarily hate life, just MY life and MY circumstances. But I must admit, the nothingness would be very nice too.

 

[tonyspitstain]

What is the difference between someone having a soul that continues versus being rebirthed? What continues in this case? Also conspiracy time but I think people who are suicidal dont tap into the supernatural stuff as well re guides or whatever else there is to prevent people knowing something exists afters / preventing them from ctb lmao

Ok so a lot of people on here seem to be educated on philosophy and theology and I have no knowledge of either of these things really, so please excuse me if this does not make sense. I'm not that good at explaining myself.

People say they believe that death is simply "lights out," because do you remember life before you were born? They say it was "darkness, pure nothingness" but I don't really think that makes any sense. Because you were alive for the first two years of your life and most people have no memory of that at all. Does that mean you didn't exist or that you had no consciousness? And when did your consciousness begin and end? (some people do have memories of when they were little and suddenly became aware of themselves but most people don't) Who's to say that your consciousness didn't manifest into an Ancient Greek woman several thousand years ago and you just don't remember it?

Side note but I saw somewhere that rebirth/reincarnation is interchangeable but I don't think these words have the same meaning. Reincarnation sounds like the classic idea that your soul is everlasting and will manifest into a new being. I just asked chatgpt and it said rebirth is like "a flame passing from one candle to another," which I agree with. No permanent "self" and no "soul."

But I imagine my consciousness floating in the ether before choosing to manifest inside my body. I saw this spiritual tiktok video about your soul choosing your parents, I don't necessarily believe that though. But why did your consciousness choose to be you, and could it have chosen to be someone else? Time will continue after you die, and there will still be living beings. What evidence is there that you can't experience consciousness again as another being/person? (flame passing to another candle idea) And again I am avoiding the word soul because I don't think that souls are tangible, but consciousness is tangible.

Also to your final point, I agree. I also generally think most educated, western people will choose scientific theory/nihilism/atheism over extrapolating about mystical stuff that can't be "proven."

 

[CantDoIt]

Ok so a lot of people on here seem to be educated on philosophy and theology and I have no knowledge of either of these things really, so please excuse me if this does not make sense. I'm not that good at explaining myself.

People say they believe that death is simply "lights out," because do you remember life before you were born? They say it was "darkness, pure nothingness" but I don't really think that makes any sense. Because you were alive for the first two years of your life and most people have no memory of that at all. Does that mean you didn't exist or that you had no consciousness? And when did your consciousness begin and end? (some people do have memories of when they were little and suddenly became aware of themselves but most people don't) Who's to say that your consciousness didn't manifest into an Ancient Greek woman several thousand years ago and you just don't remember it?

Side note but I saw somewhere that rebirth/reincarnation is interchangeable but I don't think these words have the same meaning. Reincarnation sounds like the classic idea that your soul is everlasting and will manifest into a new being. I just asked chatgpt and it said rebirth is like "a flame passing from one candle to another," which I agree with. No permanent "self" and no "soul."

But I imagine my consciousness floating in the ether before choosing to manifest inside my body. I saw this spiritual tiktok video about your soul choosing your parents, I don't necessarily believe that though. But why did your consciousness choose to be you, and could it have chosen to be someone else? Time will continue after you die, and there will still be living beings. What evidence is there that you can't experience consciousness again as another being/person? (flame passing to another candle idea) And again I am avoiding the word soul because I don't think that souls are tangible, but consciousness is tangible.

Also to your final point, I agree. I also generally think most educated, western people will choose scientific theory/nihilism/atheism over extrapolating about mystical stuff that can't be "proven."

Yes, that's a good question. I noticed you avoided the word soul, so what is the piece of consciousness that moves from one point to another in this case? I have no idea why we would choose a specific life, but it seems like there are stories of people who say they chose their lives. A lot of people said we were looking for a particular challenge or experience. Maybe some people chose something that ended up being too difficult for them to handle. I feel a bit like that's my case because it's just one thing after another with me.

Plenty of people have prebirth memories and memories of past lives. Prebirth ones are interesting because these are the ones that indicate some sort of choice.

 

[PhDone]

Ive come to the conclusion that maybe it's possible we do choose our life circumstances and that some of us make the wrong decisions instead of choosing the wrong circumstances.

I cannot imagine how everything in my life happened the way it did unless that were the case. I think maybe I chose a life that would have allowed me to succeed BUT I was set up to be able to make every wrong decision for myself and in fact did that.

Sounds very much like me indeed. I had every opportunity to do well. And made some big mistakes, mostly latterly.

What is the difference between someone having a soul that continues versus being rebirthed? What continues in this case? Also conspiracy time but I think people who are suicidal dont tap into the supernatural stuff as well re guides or whatever else there is to prevent people knowing something exists afters / preventing them from ctb lmao

Thats an interesting thought. I used to feel very connected spiritually, like sensed things and got messages or whatever. Now in illness i feel like its all stopped. No guides, no vibes, no messages. So thats interesting to think its intentional.

Ok so a lot of people on here seem to be educated on philosophy and theology and I have no knowledge of either of these things really, so please excuse me if this does not make sense. I'm not that good at explaining myself.

People say they believe that death is simply "lights out," because do you remember life before you were born? They say it was "darkness, pure nothingness" but I don't really think that makes any sense. Because you were alive for the first two years of your life and most people have no memory of that at all. Does that mean you didn't exist or that you had no consciousness? And when did your consciousness begin and end? (some people do have memories of when they were little and suddenly became aware of themselves but most people don't) Who's to say that your consciousness didn't manifest into an Ancient Greek woman several thousand years ago and you just don't remember it?

Side note but I saw somewhere that rebirth/reincarnation is interchangeable but I don't think these words have the same meaning. Reincarnation sounds like the classic idea that your soul is everlasting and will manifest into a new being. I just asked chatgpt and it said rebirth is like "a flame passing from one candle to another," which I agree with. No permanent "self" and no "soul."

But I imagine my consciousness floating in the ether before choosing to manifest inside my body. I saw this spiritual tiktok video about your soul choosing your parents, I don't necessarily believe that though. But why did your consciousness choose to be you, and could it have chosen to be someone else? Time will continue after you die, and there will still be living beings. What evidence is there that you can't experience consciousness again as another being/person? (flame passing to another candle idea) And again I am avoiding the word soul because I don't think that souls are tangible, but consciousness is tangible.

Also to your final point, I agree. I also generally think most educated, western people will choose scientific theory/nihilism/atheism over extrapolating about mystical stuff that can't be "proven."

I like your post a lot! Final point first, I am a scientist but can reconcile spirituality and science. Quantum physics does a good job at that in any case. I once read a history of philosophical models and current sciencism which has this all pervasive need for empirical data could easily have not taken hold of our society: we believe in science as our yardstick, measure alongside rationalism as another philosophical model, that says it only makes sense to believe in science. We cannot prove many things right now, but that is always the case prior to 'discovery' and new testing equipment. We are idiots as humans to believe things dont exist unless we prove them to.

Re how we came to land in this body and lifetime, Alan Watts has a good story on this. Basically roll the dice infinite times and at some point its bound to land here. Which might say "luck of the draw". Which i dont like one bit tbh. Put in loads of effort, fuck up one thing, land in illness, find yourself unable to tolerate what had been a well set-up life, ctb and then find yourself randomly in a life of no chance or opportunity, or worse hell. Like surely somewhere we get to have put money in the tin towards what we get next?

Honestly I used to love spiritual seeking. Now I'm tired of possibilities One thing I do know is since illness, most of what seems to make sense to able world does not fit one bit here. E.g if this is my karma I must have been some kind of vile monster. Surely we would have some sense of that in our consciousness? Like I do believe I'm an older 'soul', maybe moderately old. I feel pretty aware and 'seeing life' deeper than many. But not as deep as others. It feels like some sense of being accumulated, not a random (Alan Watts-style) drop in to a 'me' that happens to be switched on. Imagine if I went to another life where I was thick as pig shit and had no clue at all. What a waste of learning and growth or whatever.

I've has some opportunity to experience people living in vastly different situations since I got ill. It doesnt feel like I click with it at all. Maybe that sounds arrogant. But I feel some sense of knowing where I come from and what and who fits with me. Of course that could still be just a VR generated experience too.

Honestly all I want is out of this goddam hell I've ended up in. I find it odd that you can do all the "energy goes where attention flows" or whatever the f it is, to create life. Why doesnt that work with death. All my bloody attention is on getting out of this life now!

 

[CantDoIt]

Thats an interesting thought. I used to feel very connected spiritually, like sensed things and got messages or whatever. Now in illness i feel like its all stopped. No guides, no vibes, no messages. So thats interesting to think its intentional.

Yes, I had a few weird things happen to me. During a particularly stressful time I even felt the radiating love/light described in NDEs (I was not dying) and I even saw what I think was my "soul" in a vision. It was a large glowing ball of light.
I get some dreams now but I can't tell what they mean and they feel fairly misleading. Multiple uneasy dreams about ghosts, the afterlife, etc. In one of the dreams i saw souls as electricity or vapor that could phase through walls. In other dreams ghosts chased me or I was in a dark place having trouble escaping.

I guess there is meaning to those dreams but not comfort, which I was hoping for. I know someone who had many NDEs said the knowledge of a pleasant afterlife was sometimes hidden from suicidal people on purpose.

 

[resteasy3232]

I believe that god forgives stuff like CTB, as long as you repent. and you believed in god / the religion you believe in, honestly i'm not sure what's real and what's not, but i know before i CTB i will repent.

 

[CantDoIt]

I believe that god forgives stuff like CTB, as long as you repent. and you believed in god / the religion you believe in, honestly i'm not sure what's real and what's not, but i know before i CTB i will repent.

I don't have a specific religion, I'm just spiritual. I will be repenting as well. I think there's a lot I have to apologize for.

 

[PhDone]

@Pluto just read several pages on the NDE site you linked to. Absolutely brilliant thanks

 

[tonyspitstain]

Yes, that's a good question. I noticed you avoided the word soul, so what is the piece of consciousness that moves from one point to another in this case? I have no idea why we would choose a specific life, but it seems like there are stories of people who say they chose their lives. A lot of people said we were looking for a particular challenge or experience. Maybe some people chose something that ended up being too difficult for them to handle. I feel a bit like that's my case because it's just one thing after another with me.

Plenty of people have prebirth memories and memories of past lives. Prebirth ones are interesting because these are the ones that indicate some sort of choice.

I don't really see it as a "piece" of consciousness moving from one point to another, I just see it as opening your eyes and realizing your own sentience again, if that makes sense.

The idea that a soul would want a challenge is weird to me because it also sounds like it would go along with predetermination which I don't believe in. There are events that happen in one's life that they can't predict and have no control over, turning a comfortable life into hell. Like eventually developing a degenerative disease or ending up in a war torn country. I was writing this last night and looks like PhDone had the same idea as me haha.

I read about prebirth memories a lot as well but I don't know what to believe with those. A lot of people say that the parents were feeding their kids information, asking leading questions etc., and I haven't personally met anyone with vivid prebirth memories. I don't deny that they exist but I'd like to hear more detailed, personal accounts.

Honestly I used to love spiritual seeking. Now I'm tired of possibilities One thing I do know is since illness, most of what seems to make sense to able world does not fit one bit here. E.g if this is my karma I must have been some kind of vile monster. Surely we would have some sense of that in our consciousness? Like I do believe I'm an older 'soul', maybe moderately old. I feel pretty aware and 'seeing life' deeper than many. But not as deep as others. It feels like some sense of being accumulated, not a random (Alan Watts-style) drop in to a 'me' that happens to be switched on. Imagine if I went to another life where I was thick as pig shit and had no clue at all. What a waste of learning and growth or whatever.

I've has some opportunity to experience people living in vastly different situations since I got ill. It doesnt feel like I click with it at all. Maybe that sounds arrogant. But I feel some sense of knowing where I come from and what and who fits with me. Of course that could still be just a VR generated experience too.

Honestly all I want is out of this goddam hell I've ended up in. I find it odd that you can do all the "energy goes where attention flows" or whatever the f it is, to create life. Why doesnt that work with death. All my bloody attention is on getting out of this life now!

If karma has any actual influence of the trajectory of our lives I def did something terrible as well, I don't like to think in these terms because there are wonderful people who have suffered immense challenges or horrific deaths. There is certainly nothing they did to deserve that kind of experience. It goes along with predetermination which I don't believe in.

 

[thesofaspud]

Something is up with reincarnation for sure.. Like I'm meant to learn lessons without even knowing what the lesson is. It's like asking a reception (kindergarten) student to complete a college maths exam without him having any maths lessons. If there is a god, I want to ask it why it causes so much suffering in the world, or why it doesn't even visit us. If I was a god and I made creations, I would at least visit them, every decade or so and I would be like "I created you, do whatever you want, just don't be a dick or this will happen." if death was in these creations, I would let them know what happens after death. If a god exists, they are an ablsoute dick.

I hope for nothingness and I would only come back into existence if I had god like powers and I could create beings, and I would let those beings know I exist, keep visiting them every decade. Maybe for fun, I could just say "Do a dance for me when I visit, or on the day I visit, do this thing and I'll keep you alive for the next decade." at least the beings would know god exists, why they exist.

God sucks

 

[Pluto]

I was watching this video yesterday. For something mainstream, it's dangerously close to the truth.

 

[CantDoIt]

I was watching this video yesterday. For something mainstream, it's dangerously close to the truth.

I always felt like we were all parts of one whole. And that the individual humans were manifestations of the universe. I really worry about being "reincarnated" as someone else living right now or someone who I thought I wasn't, that is so scary....