Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Bengal]

If you want the inert gas guide with diving equipment, send me a PM.

I think I might be too new to PM. Gave me a weird message when I tried. This is actually my first post. But I would be interested in the guide. How do PM u? Thanks

 

[Wunderkind]

Let me ask a short question. Required:
-nitrogen tank (or any other inert gas)
-reducer to the tank for pressure reduction
-mask, bag or own design with which to breathe

I didn't forget anything? (hoses for connection by itself, I'm interested in the most important components)

 

[color_me_gone]

I didn't forget anything?

You forgot the flow regulator.

 

[Wunderkind]

You forgot the flow regulator.

Apparently I have studied everything badly and am already confused. I have a gearbox with two pressure gauges to lower the pressure from 150 bar to 10-20 bar. This is not enough?
I saw a video on YouTube how they regulated the gas supply from a balloon to 20 liters per minute and, for example, inflated a balloon.

 

[color_me_gone]

Apparently I have studied everything badly and am already confused. I have a gearbox with two pressure gauges to lower the pressure from 150 bar to 10-20 bar. This is not enough?
I saw a video on YouTube how they regulated the gas supply from a balloon to 20 liters per minute and, for example, inflated a balloon.

The problem with trying to use a pressure regulator as a flow control is that it is dependent on the pressure difference across the regulator.

As the tank is depleted from its gas, the pressure drops in the tank, so then the flow rate decreases.

Flow regulators are designed to give the same flow, regardless if the tank is full or nearly empty.

For the purposes of ctb, a constant flow is a requirement.

The YouTube video worked, because filling a balloon is such a small amount of gas, that the pressure drop in the tank was negligible.

 

[GasMonkey]

Let me ask a short question. Required:
-nitrogen tank (or any other inert gas)
-reducer to the tank for pressure reduction
-mask, bag or own design with which to breathe

I didn't forget anything? (hoses for connection by itself, I'm interested in the most important components)

The best setups have an additional component: demand valve AKA 2nd stage.
What you call "reducer" is the regulator AKA 1st stage.

 

[Wunderkind]

The best setups have an additional component: demand valve AKA 2nd stage.
What you call "reducer" is the regulator AKA 1st stage.

The problem with trying to use a pressure regulator as a flow control is that it is dependent on the pressure difference across the regulator.

As the tank is depleted from its gas, the pressure drops in the tank, so then the flow rate decreases.

Flow regulators are designed to give the same flow, regardless if the tank is full or nearly empty.

For the purposes of ctb, a constant flow is a requirement.

The YouTube video worked, because filling a balloon is such a small amount of gas, that the pressure drop in the tank was negligible.

Thanks a lot! Now everything is clear to me.

I'm trying to make the most ideal setup for car use. For a number of personal reasons, the car is the ideal place for me, the problem now is only in implementation.

 

[Wunderkind]

@GasMonkey @color_me_gone and other members

Found a component with a custom scale liters / minute
As I understand it, this is the regulator, am I right?

 

[GasMonkey]

Are you using a manually crafted ExitBag?
In that case you need a N₂ flow regulator capable of working at 15 LPM.

 

[color_me_gone]

I'm trying to make the most ideal setup for car use. For a number of personal reasons, the car is the ideal place for me, the problem now is only in implementation.

When I was considering using inert gas, I too decided that a car was ideal place, for the reason that you can drive to a remote location, where nobody will interrupt you, and distanced away from friends and family.

Found a component with a custom scale liters / minute
As I understand it, this is the regulator, am I right?

A scale of liters / minute would be the flow regulator you need.
But flow regulators are calibrated for the density of gas you are using.
If there is a mismatch, there is a way to figure what setting to use to compensate for the mismatch.
Perhaps @Greenberg or @GasMonkey can help in this regard..

 

[TrashMax]

Hello... this is my first post in here, but I've been reading quite a lot in here...
Long story short - I'm suffering from deep depression for last 4years now (maybe more) but I can't stand any more, nothing helps and everything just ruins piece by piece in my life... and I'm just going deeper and deeper in depression...
In last couple weeks I tried 4 times to ctb and unfortunately all failed... 2 with technical issues with argon, 2 because of SI 1)hanging 2)argon and bag (but I ducktaped bag to neck, so started suffering of CO2)... SI is a bitch!!!!

For now I've got everything ready for exit bag ctb...
I've got 40cf Argon tank, then i got a flow regulator (actual argon regulator) with pressure gauge and LPM gauge, I've made a 3 different sizes exit bags with string ties... also first I planned to do it with non-rebreather oxygen mask, but change my mind recently after reading posts in here (but still have masks)

Any suggestions? I will be happy with any information, Thanks in advance

P.S. sorry for my english, I'm not native English speaker

 

[GasMonkey]

SCBA

 

[TrashMax]

SCBA

Yeah, i considered that as well, but seems i can't find the right one for a moment, and i don't wanna really wait longer...
I just can't find on internet some decent one in my country...

 

[color_me_gone]

Any suggestions?

Well, this is a personal opinion, but I am leery of using argon.
CO2 is just a tiny bit heavier than argon.
CO2 will drop in argon, like a feather drops in the air.
A feather falls very slowly, because it is only slightly heavier than air.
Any turbulence will cause the feather to rise up again.
This can cause the CO2 to not be purged properly out the bottom of the bag.
If CO2 builds up in the bag, it will trigger your SI,
even if you are already unconscious.

 

[tonykp]

Can you elaborate on the necessity of continuous gas flow?
If you have your head in a huge bag filled with an inert gas, sealed properly on your neck, your blood oxygen level will drop very quickly and you will be unconscious within a minutes. Dead in 10 minutes. Much quicker than exhaled CO2 level can raise above the level of triggering survival instinct.
Can you bring here any reliable source of data or reference that describes the rational for a continuous flow of gas over an extended period of time?
I don't think having your head in 150+ litres of pure inert gas is not enough.

 

[TrashMax]

Well, this is a personal opinion, but I am leery of using argon.
CO2 is just a tiny bit heavier than argon.
CO2 will drop in argon, like a feather drops in the air.
A feather falls very slowly, because it is only slightly heavier than air.
Any turbulence will cause the feather to rise up again.
This can cause the CO2 to not be purged properly out the bottom of the bag.
If CO2 builds up in the bag, it will trigger your SI,
even if you are already unconscious.

And? How to avoid that?

 

[color_me_gone]

And? How to avoid that?

Use nitrogen.

 

[TrashMax]

Use nitrogen.

Well, just bought a 40cf tank of Argon... if that gonna be unsuccessful, I'll try Nitrogen... I'm already wasted one tank of Argon well, half of it i just pured in air, cause I was in doubt if it's gonna be enough for sure, so I bought a new one....

Can you elaborate on the necessity of continuous gas flow?
If you have your head in a huge bag filled with an inert gas, sealed properly on your neck, your blood oxygen level will drop very quickly and you will be unconscious within a minutes. Dead in 10 minutes. Much quicker than exhaled CO2 level can raise above the level of triggering survival instinct.
Can you bring here any reliable source of data or reference that describes the rational for a continuous flow of gas over an extended period of time?
I don't think having your head in 150+ litres of pure inert gas is not enough.

As I said, first 2 attempts was with the oxygen masks not a bags, and there seems like was the actual fault... I could still get O2 thru the mask gapes, then I tried a bag, but I sealed it completely around the neck, so CO2 build up and I just ripped the bag of... so for now I made a couple custom made bags with tie strings to attach it on forehead and then release un pull down completely with living 3 or 2 finger rule...

Well, just bought a 40cf tank of Argon... if that gonna be unsuccessful, I'll try Nitrogen... I'm already wasted one tank of Argon well, half of it i just pured in air, cause I was in doubt if it's gonna be enough for sure, so I bought a new one....

As I said, first 2 attempts was with the oxygen masks not a bags, and there seems like was the actual fault... I could still get O2 thru the mask gapes, then I tried a bag, but I sealed it completely around the neck, so CO2 build up and I just ripped the bag of... so for now I made a couple custom made bags with tie strings to attach it on forehead and then release un pull down completely with living 3 or 2 finger rule...

Bloody auto corrector

And? How to avoid that?

Can I avoid this with bigger flow of Argon?

 

[GasMonkey]

Can you bring here any reliable source of data or reference that describes the rational for a continuous flow of gas over an extended period of time?

Check the Inert Gas chapter on the PPeH.

 

[color_me_gone]

Can I avoid this with bigger flow of Argon?

To be honest, I don't know.
In theory, if the gas is entering the top of the bag, then flowing down to the bottom to exit the bag,
one would expect that it would carry the CO2 along with it.
But that is only a guess.

 

[color_me_gone]

thinking to do it in hour or so

Wishing you peace.

 

[TrashMax]

Wishing you peace.

Just thinking to where to drive in some forest, where nobody gonna find me at least in next couple hour's

Just thinking to where to drive in some forest, where nobody gonna find me at least in next couple hour's

 

[TrashMax]

Just thinking to where to drive in some forest, where nobody gonna find me at least in next couple hour's

EPIC Fail.... just seems nobody wants me on other said either...
Got prepared, feeling ready, done everything by the book.... but unfortunately they selled me a empty tank i screwed all the joints as needed and PUFF.... no Gas...
Yeah, when i picked up it feeled a lot lighter then previous one, but it was with original sealings and all, so I tought maybe it's just me and my imagination, but end of the day... FAILED again...

 

[GasMonkey]

Just thinking to where to drive in some forest, where nobody gonna find me at least in next couple hour's

Interesting adapter. :)

 

[LesbianCarpetPython]

Hey, I was looking at same kit. Can you please explain what the EM regulator is and why you changed and where to get it from?
I do not want to over pay for the Maddog regulator and wait for the shipping. But I like the simplicity of it and no need to research connectors etc. besides I read that the clear tubing is ideal because other tubing with larger diameter can leak oxygen in to bag.

I've gotten my industrial flow regulator rather than EM and I'm confident this will work well as the nut goes all the way to the bottom so it should work. I'm gonna do some testing tomorrow

My oxygen tube is a lot thinner than I realised. It looked thickener in the photos

 

[color_me_gone]

Got prepared, feeling ready, done everything by the book.... but unfortunately they selled me a empty tank i screwed all the joints as needed and PUFF.... no Gas...
Yeah, when i picked up it feeled a lot lighter then previous one, but it was with original sealings and all, so I tought maybe it's just me and my imagination, but end of the day... FAILED again...

Yeah, they do sell empty tanks, as well.
Actually, you are paying much more for the tank than you are for the gas, so the price difference may not be all that noticeable.
Now is your chance to switch to nitrogen.

 

[LesbianCarpetPython]

Sorry if I'm late but I finally put together my nitrogen canister to test if it works and it seemingly works great! Much better than EM. I had to buy the barn separate and I was pleasantly surprised I got everything right this time. Oxygen tube seems to fix just right (though here i put it on loosely as I'm gonna pack it away until I'm ready) and the industrial flow regulator works fits well. I'll need to test this in the future but I can imagine it will work great.

 

[GasMonkey]

I have discovered that there are quick coupling adapters that can be connected to normal Nitrogen pressure regulators, enabling them to connect to SCBA demand valves (which have a plug-in nipple). With these adapters is possible to reduce the costs of SCBA setups a lot and build them in every region.

Demand valves only need around 7.5bar pressure and N₂ regulators with low pressure output ranges (0-10 bar) are the cheapest ones.



These adapters go into the output/low pressure part of the system, so they are totally safe to use.

 

[Wunderkind]

Hi guys, can you tell me the best bag or mask design in your experience and opinion that can be used in a car, thanks in advance

 

[GasMonkey]

I've been looking at the eedb mask/regulator kits for sale on a certain website and I'm wondering if anyone has bought one and what the general consensus of these kits are ?

Lots of people have bought from that source, it's legit.