Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[PrincessInWhite]

15L is perfectly acceptable and will get the job done,as per Greenberg---When talking to K about our Canadian source, he said 25 LPM may make the Nitrogen colder to you

thank you!!!! <3 there was some person named Germany scaring the shit out of me but I can see even Derek Humphrie has changed his stance and said "experiments now show 15 LPM is optimal" as of May of this year, so there's that. The Pph is a useful tool but it's meant to make money not out of the kindness of his heart so I like to confirm sources, etcc.

 

[outrider567]

thank you!!!! <3 there was some person named Germany scaring the shit out of me but I can see even Derek Humphrie has changed his stance and said "experiments now show 15 LPM is optimal" as of May of this year, so there's that. The Pph is a useful tool but it's meant to make money not out of the kindness of his heart so I like to confirm sources, etcc.

Put FromGermany on ignore ---Greenberg banned him from the thread I think for spreading doubt and false information--Yes, Humphries from FinalExit changed his mind and said 15 LPM is optimal, as you state

 

[Yesyaw22]

I'd just like to add something which might help many...

I have been in recent months doing research into this topic; the exit bag isn't the issue, it was the nitrogen amount.

Anyway, after reading the first post (forget the user), they claimed 600L would be required (but this accounts for multiple attempts).

I called a local dealer who is actually a broker for a major supplier here in the UK.

So...
After a brief discussion, the individual couldn't answer my questions and advised me to contact the supplier...which I did today.

I spoke to representative and gave me the answer I was looking for!.

I'd been looking to find out how much compressed nitrogen would be sufficient; at least an hours worth (to be sure).

Essentially, I was informed that a 9L tank/bottle @137 bar compressed nitrogen would be sufficient.
They explained that essentially you just multiply the 9L by the bar pressure...
In this case:
9L x 137 bar = 1233 Litres of nitrogen gas.

1233 Litres of nitrogen running at 15 LPM (litres per minute) would be far more than required.

If 15lpm is the stated correct flow rate; and with possibility of unconsciousness occurring within a minute or so, then ctb in usually 4mins, one wouldn't require even 10-15mins in total to be gone.

So with that said, I am more than comfortable now and pleased that i know 9L @137 bar compressed nitrogen is sufficient and can continue with my plans.

On a side note...
You may be wondering why I've made this post.
Well, firstly I haven't been fit enough to trawl through countless threads/posts and second, people have made posts that are misleading or incorrect.

So to end this post (and specifically for those in the UK requiring specific information), I have provided the details which could save yourselves time and confusion.

By the way...
My plans on ctb haven't changed; at the moment I'm aquireing the equipment and now gas ready for the end.

As things are health wise with me at this time, rushing this isn't necessary, I have enough time.

I plan on doing this once only (of course) and because of this, I am making all the necessary plans, letters, will, etc.
Once these are complete and I have confidence in my setup, then will be the time.

Last but not least...
I will say my goodbyes here and will request the closure of my account.

All the best for now :)

 

[ooglah]

I have this cylinder that I use to inject CO2 into a fish tank (2 Liter bottle for scale)

The regulator works really well, it is a 'SR Aquaristik Dual Stage Regulator' ( https://sraquaristik.com/products/dual-stage-co2-regulator )

My only concern is the regulator doesn't have a flow meter... just two gauges that measure the PSI in the tank, and the PSI coming out of the regulator.

Any idea on if I can modify this (filled with an inert gas obviously) and have it work?

 

[ooglah]

Still reading thru this mega thread.. on page 20.
I have this lifesmart sauna I may try to convert into a chamber ( it is a little under 3 feet wide / 6 feet tall) More research will be needed! Just thought I'd share the idea

 

[QuietEnd]

I'm really confused & overwhelmed by the regulator valve needs, is anyone able to help explain what's needed?

I know brewdog valves aren't recommended so that option is out.

For a 9 litre 137 bar N tank in the UK I'm overwhelmed with the options and have no idea how to work out what is needed.

 

[GasMonkey]

The car example is an intriguing option as the gas source is not apparent to anyone else and the enclosure can be highly controlled! Interesting idea!!

This has already been done using 5 Liquid Nitrogen tanks: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334166813

I have this lifesmart sauna I may try to convert into a chamber

It would be easier to use a Low oxygen training tent.

 

[carcassi]

Hi, my biggest concern at the moment with the exit bag is that the bag will be dislodged after I'm unconscious. Once you lose consciousness, I think your head will fall if you're sitting up. The peaceful pill handbook recommends reclining in an armchair. I don't have access to a reclining armchair but I'm thinking of using a large armchair. I'm thinking of letting my head rest on the side of the armchair and hopefully I'll stay in that position once unconscious. I also know that the bag is supposed to be fairly tight around the neck, allowing two fingers to fit under it, so would that be tight enough to keep it from being pulled up from the neck?

Has anyone else thought about this? I saw one person posted that they were going to use a gaming chair that had straps to keep the person in place which would be ideal but wouldn't be possible for me.

 

[befree]

"my biggest concern at the moment with the exit bag is that the bag will be dislodged after I'm unconscious."... Better use the scuba mask method.This method is much more reliable.

 

[ooglah]

It would be easier to use a Low oxygen training tent.

This Snowcap sleep canopy looks really interesting.

 

[Yesyaw22]

I'm really confused & overwhelmed by the regulator valve needs, is anyone able to help explain what's needed?

I know brewdog valves aren't recommended so that option is out.

For a 9 litre 137 bar N tank in the UK I'm overwhelmed with the options and have no idea how to work out what is needed.

It is rather confusing to begin with; the key is to just ask a supplier or broker as it were.

As i stated in my previous post, the broker didn't have a clue about pressures/litres etc and therefore they advised me to contact their actual supplier...which i did.

It was as basic as this:
I just asked the assistant how much in litres i would require in order to have a consistent flow of 15lpm (litres per minute) for around 1-1 1/2hrs worth of flowing nitrogen gas...
Quite simply, they just informed me that i would require at least a 9L tank (obviously of compressed nitrogen - which it is anyway).
So, a 9L nitrogen tank @137 bar pressure - It equates to around 1233 litres of nitrogen (compressed gas).

Essentially, you have to then calculate that amount; So 1233 litres of compressed nitrogen running at 15lpm allows you roughly 85 minutes available of nitrogen gas.

Obviously, given that unconsciousness occurs quickly (depends on the individual and how much one inhales at the first few breaths); but lets say you become unconscious in 10 seconds, with a flow rate running at 15lpm with the capacity of the available nitrogen gas around 1233 litres, one has more than enough to ensure ctb and then 'cease to be functioning' (so to speak).

As for the regulator, this has proven a little troublesome for me too...

Essentially though, for the 9L bottle @137 bar, here;s what you'll need:
Most regulators have quite higher levels of bar - I personally haven't seen any below 200bar (tank/bottle pressure).
You will need a regulator that has preferably 2 gauges; one that provides the level of gas available in the tank/bottle, and crucially the second gauge with a LPM (litres per minute) meter.
Some have a Cu.ft (i think) gauge, but if you do the research and ask the suppliers, they will confirm what you'll require and provide you with that.

So essentially, get a regulator that has a gauge which has a minimum bar level at @200bar - With the other flow rate gauge that has a LPM (litres per minute) gauge. Most regulators have an inbuilt 'step-down' pressure release valve in them that reduces the internal outlet pressure down to 10bar - obviously this is to prevent the huge pressure being released from the tank upon opening the valve handle (usually at the top of the tank).

Currently, i have most of my plans now in order. I have the bag constructed, almost completed my letters etc - All i require now is the gas, hose/tubing and regulator...which i have already made enquiries, it's just making the purchase now. Again, i only plan on doing this once and i am not leaving anything to chance of failure.

I am more than happy to assist you with anything - However i will not provide suppliers details.
P.S. As promised, upon the time, i will inform in this thread my final thoughts and say my goodbyes.

All the best ;)

 

[outrider567]

Hi, my biggest concern at the moment with the exit bag is that the bag will be dislodged after I'm unconscious. Once you lose consciousness, I think your head will fall if you're sitting up. The peaceful pill handbook recommends reclining in an armchair. I don't have access to a reclining armchair but I'm thinking of using a large armchair. I'm thinking of letting my head rest on the side of the armchair and hopefully I'll stay in that position once unconscious. I also know that the bag is supposed to be fairly tight around the neck, allowing two fingers to fit under it, so would that be tight enough to keep it from being pulled up from the neck?

Has anyone else thought about this? I saw one person posted that they were going to use a gaming chair that had straps to keep the person in place which would be ideal but wouldn't be possible for me.

Yes,using a large armchair should be ok--I'm using a bed with lots of cushions and pillows, propping up and so limiting my head action after losing consciousness---But I'm also using an EEBD hood,which is more secure than an Exit Bag(and the tubing is already attached to the hood)but it takes longer to go unconscious---PM Greenberg here and tell him your concerns

It is rather confusing to begin with; the key is to just ask a supplier or broker as it were.

As i stated in my previous post, the broker didn't have a clue about pressures/litres etc and therefore they advised me to contact their actual supplier...which i did.

It was as basic as this:
I just asked the assistant how much in litres i would require in order to have a consistent flow of 15lpm (litres per minute) for around 1-1 1/2hrs worth of flowing nitrogen gas...
Quite simply, they just informed me that i would require at least a 9L tank (obviously of compressed nitrogen - which it is anyway).
So, a 9L nitrogen tank @137 bar pressure - It equates to around 1233 litres of nitrogen (compressed gas).

Essentially, you have to then calculate that amount; So 1233 litres of compressed nitrogen running at 15lpm allows you roughly 85 minutes available of nitrogen gas.

Obviously, given that unconsciousness occurs quickly (depends on the individual and how much one inhales at the first few breaths); but lets say you become unconscious in 10 seconds, with a flow rate running at 15lpm with the capacity of the available nitrogen gas around 1233 litres, one has more than enough to ensure ctb and then 'cease to be functioning' (so to speak).

As for the regulator, this has proven a little troublesome for me too...

Essentially though, for the 9L bottle @137 bar, here;s what you'll need:
Most regulators have quite higher levels of bar - I personally haven't seen any below 200bar (tank/bottle pressure).
You will need a regulator that has preferably 2 gauges; one that provides the level of gas available in the tank/bottle, and crucially the second gauge with a LPM (litres per minute) meter.
Some have a Cu.ft (i think) gauge, but if you do the research and ask the suppliers, they will confirm what you'll require and provide you with that.

So essentially, get a regulator that has a gauge which has a minimum bar level at @200bar - With the other flow rate gauge that has a LPM (litres per minute) gauge. Most regulators have an inbuilt 'step-down' pressure release valve in them that reduces the internal outlet pressure down to 10bar - obviously this is to prevent the huge pressure being released from the tank upon opening the valve handle (usually at the top of the tank).

Currently, i have most of my plans now in order. I have the bag constructed, almost completed my letters etc - All i require now is the gas, hose/tubing and regulator...which i have already made enquiries, it's just making the purchase now. Again, i only plan on doing this once and i am not leaving anything to chance of failure.

I am more than happy to assist you with anything - However i will not provide suppliers details.
P.S. As promised, upon the time, i will inform in this thread my final thoughts and say my goodbyes.

All the best ;)

Excellent post---But you won't go under in 10 seconds, usually its closer to 30 to 60 seconds---You possess more than enough Nitrogen for sure(`1233 liters of compressed gas)Greenberg I think has the minimum at around 400 to 500 liters of compressed gas--Mine is 3000 liters but at the time that's the only one I could get

 

[mjosjueiowl]

Any video of an actual human case with this method?

( The closet thing I have ever seen is the "Pig euthanasia with inert gas helium in Germany" video on YouTube. It looks very fast. About 20 seconds from the first visible sign of dizziness to complete motionless.)

 

[GasMonkey]

But you won't go under in 10 seconds, usually its closer to 30 to 60 seconds

Dr Philip Nitschke says that if you exert all the air from your lungs and then take a DEEP breath of N2 or H, you will blackout in 1 or 2 breaths.

Any video of an actual human case with this method?

None that I know. Videos of assisted suicide are very limited.

There is a bunch a documented medical cases tho, with photos included. Somebody posted here a photobucket link with a bunch of photos from that articles.

 

[befree]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-body-of-deceased-with-a-diving-full-face-mask-fixed-on-the-face_fig8_253647263

 

[GasMonkey]

@Greenberg What do you think about fine-tuning our setups by tightening the connections using the optimal torque values instead of just eyeballing it? Would that increase the quality of the setup?

I have been searching on the Interwebs for the recommended torque for my inlet->cylinder connection (DIN 477 Nr.10) but so far I have not been able to find it. The PDF of the DIN 477 standard costs $164 LOL.

 

[nite_sprite]

I'd just like to add something which might help many...

I have been in recent months doing research into this topic; the exit bag isn't the issue, it was the nitrogen amount.

Anyway, after reading the first post (forget the user), they claimed 600L would be required (but this accounts for multiple attempts).

I called a local dealer who is actually a broker for a major supplier here in the UK.

So...
After a brief discussion, the individual couldn't answer my questions and advised me to contact the supplier...which I did today.

I spoke to representative and gave me the answer I was looking for!.

I'd been looking to find out how much compressed nitrogen would be sufficient; at least an hours worth (to be sure).

Essentially, I was informed that a 9L tank/bottle @137 bar compressed nitrogen would be sufficient.
They explained that essentially you just multiply the 9L by the bar pressure...
In this case:
9L x 137 bar = 1233 Litres of nitrogen gas.

1233 Litres of nitrogen running at 15 LPM (litres per minute) would be far more than required.

If 15lpm is the stated correct flow rate; and with possibility of unconsciousness occurring within a minute or so, then ctb in usually 4mins, one wouldn't require even 10-15mins in total to be gone.

So with that said, I am more than comfortable now and pleased that i know 9L @137 bar compressed nitrogen is sufficient and can continue with my plans.

On a side note...
You may be wondering why I've made this post.
Well, firstly I haven't been fit enough to trawl through countless threads/posts and second, people have made posts that are misleading or incorrect.

So to end this post (and specifically for those in the UK requiring specific information), I have provided the details which could save yourselves time and confusion.

By the way...
My plans on ctb haven't changed; at the moment I'm aquireing the equipment and now gas ready for the end.

As things are health wise with me at this time, rushing this isn't necessary, I have enough time.

I plan on doing this once only (of course) and because of this, I am making all the necessary plans, letters, will, etc.
Once these are complete and I have confidence in my setup, then will be the time.

Last but not least...
I will say my goodbyes here and will request the closure of my account.

All the best for now :)

Thank you for posting this. I am in the UK too and having some trouble trying to figure this all out. I need help with every aspect as I am getting confused. I am a new member and not sure about the rules for posting and messaging. If you could help me further I would be very grateful for any more information please? Thank you

 

[Greenberg]

@Greenberg What do you think about fine-tuning our setups by tightening the connections using the optimal torque values instead of just eyeballing it? Would that increase the quality of the setup?

I have been searching on the Interwebs for the recommended torque for my inlet->cylinder connection (DIN 477 Nr.10) but so far I have not been able to find it. The PDF of the DIN 477 standard costs $164 LOL.

Hi, as long as there are no leakages, the setup is fine. Anyways, optimal torque valves are theoretical numbers. You can mitigate potential leakages with PTFE tape (Teflon tape). Best, G

 

[GasMonkey]

@Greenberg How do you have your cylinder stored? vertical or horizontal? Do you think that both positions are viable for storage? I keep reading on the Internet that it MUST be stored vertically.

 

[ooglah]

@GasMonkey

I have a Scott E-Z airline ez flo regulator and a mask it attached to that firemen use laying around.

i wonder I'd that would work

 

[GasMonkey]

@GasMonkey

I have a Scott E-Z airline ez flo regulator and a mask it attached to that firemen use laying around.

i wonder I'd that would work

The manual of that demand valve says that it requires a gas source of at least 60 psig (5.15 bar), so you would need to connect it to a pressure regulator capable of providing that.

 

[jk9761]

About 150 -160 in the uk for the filled cylinder, regulator and h

About 150 -160 in the uk for the filled cylinder, regulator and hose

Thank you! Do you have sources you can recommend?

 

[Greenberg]

@Greenberg How do you have your cylinder stored? vertical or horizontal? Do you think that both positions are viable for storage? I keep reading on the Internet that it MUST be stored vertically.

I store mine vertically in a box. I personally don't think the position matters. However, laying the cylinder on the ground does pose a risk of disturbing the valve.

 

[nite_sprite]

So glad I found this website and thread. It confirms a lot of what I've been researching about nitrogen and the exit bag, thank you all for all the info. Still reading through, sooo many pages!

.

I think the left guage is the flow meter and the right guage is the pressure guage but I could be wrong?

It is rather confusing to begin with; the key is to just ask a supplier or broker as it were.

As i stated in my previous post, the broker didn't have a clue about pressures/litres etc and therefore they advised me to contact their actual supplier...which i did.

It was as basic as this:
I just asked the assistant how much in litres i would require in order to have a consistent flow of 15lpm (litres per minute) for around 1-1 1/2hrs worth of flowing nitrogen gas...
Quite simply, they just informed me that i would require at least a 9L tank (obviously of compressed nitrogen - which it is anyway).
So, a 9L nitrogen tank @137 bar pressure - It equates to around 1233 litres of nitrogen (compressed gas).

Essentially, you have to then calculate that amount; So 1233 litres of compressed nitrogen running at 15lpm allows you roughly 85 minutes available of nitrogen gas.

Obviously, given that unconsciousness occurs quickly (depends on the individual and how much one inhales at the first few breaths); but lets say you become unconscious in 10 seconds, with a flow rate running at 15lpm with the capacity of the available nitrogen gas around 1233 litres, one has more than enough to ensure ctb and then 'cease to be functioning' (so to speak).

As for the regulator, this has proven a little troublesome for me too...

Essentially though, for the 9L bottle @137 bar, here;s what you'll need:
Most regulators have quite higher levels of bar - I personally haven't seen any below 200bar (tank/bottle pressure).
You will need a regulator that has preferably 2 gauges; one that provides the level of gas available in the tank/bottle, and crucially the second gauge with a LPM (litres per minute) meter.
Some have a Cu.ft (i think) gauge, but if you do the research and ask the suppliers, they will confirm what you'll require and provide you with that.

So essentially, get a regulator that has a gauge which has a minimum bar level at @200bar - With the other flow rate gauge that has a LPM (litres per minute) gauge. Most regulators have an inbuilt 'step-down' pressure release valve in them that reduces the internal outlet pressure down to 10bar - obviously this is to prevent the huge pressure being released from the tank upon opening the valve handle (usually at the top of the tank).

Currently, i have most of my plans now in order. I have the bag constructed, almost completed my letters etc - All i require now is the gas, hose/tubing and regulator...which i have already made enquiries, it's just making the purchase now. Again, i only plan on doing this once and i am not leaving anything to chance of failure.

I am more than happy to assist you with anything - However i will not provide suppliers details.
P.S. As promised, upon the time, i will inform in this thread my final thoughts and say my goodbyes.

All the best ;)

@Yesyaw22 Will this regulator do the job?

It is rather confusing to begin with; the key is to just ask a supplier or broker as it were.

As i stated in my previous post, the broker didn't have a clue about pressures/litres etc and therefore they advised me to contact their actual supplier...which i did.

It was as basic as this:
I just asked the assistant how much in litres i would require in order to have a consistent flow of 15lpm (litres per minute) for around 1-1 1/2hrs worth of flowing nitrogen gas...
Quite simply, they just informed me that i would require at least a 9L tank (obviously of compressed nitrogen - which it is anyway).
So, a 9L nitrogen tank @137 bar pressure - It equates to around 1233 litres of nitrogen (compressed gas).

Essentially, you have to then calculate that amount; So 1233 litres of compressed nitrogen running at 15lpm allows you roughly 85 minutes available of nitrogen gas.

Obviously, given that unconsciousness occurs quickly (depends on the individual and how much one inhales at the first few breaths); but lets say you become unconscious in 10 seconds, with a flow rate running at 15lpm with the capacity of the available nitrogen gas around 1233 litres, one has more than enough to ensure ctb and then 'cease to be functioning' (so to speak).

As for the regulator, this has proven a little troublesome for me too...

Essentially though, for the 9L bottle @137 bar, here;s what you'll need:
Most regulators have quite higher levels of bar - I personally haven't seen any below 200bar (tank/bottle pressure).
You will need a regulator that has preferably 2 gauges; one that provides the level of gas available in the tank/bottle, and crucially the second gauge with a LPM (litres per minute) meter.
Some have a Cu.ft (i think) gauge, but if you do the research and ask the suppliers, they will confirm what you'll require and provide you with that.

So essentially, get a regulator that has a gauge which has a minimum bar level at @200bar - With the other flow rate gauge that has a LPM (litres per minute) gauge. Most regulators have an inbuilt 'step-down' pressure release valve in them that reduces the internal outlet pressure down to 10bar - obviously this is to prevent the huge pressure being released from the tank upon opening the valve handle (usually at the top of the tank).

Currently, i have most of my plans now in order. I have the bag constructed, almost completed my letters etc - All i require now is the gas, hose/tubing and regulator...which i have already made enquiries, it's just making the purchase now. Again, i only plan on doing this once and i am not leaving anything to chance of failure.

I am more than happy to assist you with anything - However i will not provide suppliers details.
P.S. As promised, upon the time, i will inform in this thread my final thoughts and say my goodbyes.

All the best ;)

Will this regulator do the job?

 

[nite_sprite]

.

Yes on eBay but imported from Poland

 

[nite_sprite]

aaah I didn't think about that. This gets more and more confusing by the minute. I have been searching everywhere for the right regulator with a flow meter but it is so hard trying to get suppliers to answer because they keep asking more questions and without disclosing the actual purpose it gets even harder.... If anybody here in the UK can answer our questions please help. Actual links to actual products would be better than perfect

 

[Greenberg]

So glad I found this website and thread. It confirms a lot of what I've been researching about nitrogen and the exit bag, thank you all for all the info. Still reading through, sooo many pages!


I think the left guage is the flow meter and the right guage is the pressure guage but I could be wrong?



@Yesyaw22 Will this regulator do the job?


Will this regulator do the job?

In the UK, the connection standard is BSP341 No. 3. Get a flow regulator that measures in LPM and you will be okay.

Best, G

 

[jossstick]

In the UK, the connection standard is BSP341 No. 3. Get a flow regulator that measures in LPM and you will be okay.

Best, G

Thank you G. For some reason, it's been impossible to find a regulator with LPM in the UK, so I'm investigating another regulator (the one I have isn't powerful enough I don't think) and a separate flowmeter to attach to it. It's very tricky though, because I have no idea what I'm talking about (without it sounding suspicious) and the suppliers don't understand what I'm trying to say because of this. Appreciate your input, I'll make a note of that :)

 

[Greenberg]

If it is possible and within your budget, may I suggest that you consider an integrated flow regulator? It will just save you a lot of headaches. Best, G

 

[nite_sprite]

If it is possible and within your budget, may I suggest that you consider an integrated flow regulator? It will just save you a lot of headaches. Best, G

Hi G

Thanks for your updates on this issue. I am having the same problems trying to find a suitable regulator and flowmeter. A google search is not coming back with many hits for "integrated nitrogen flow regulator".

This is what I have found https://www.sip-group.com/product/sip-gas-bottle-regulator-with-content-gauges/09019

Please let us know if this will do the job?