Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[justme1]

Hi, yes, I think it's the same one I have


No, I haven't read about this

If we are talking about the EEBD method, I don't know why any kind of reservoir is needed here. I think the internal reservoir of the hood is sufficient. It can be calculated, I guess. I don't know much about on-demand valve, but EEBD system works with constant flow as far as I know, and I don't even know how to combine on-demand valve and EEBD hood, and if it's even possible, and why it's needed. Or am I missing something?


Thank you for sharing

---

Oh, I see, sorry, you mean this person said that constant flow systems are prone to failure as opposed to on-demand systems, not about mixing EEBD hood and on-demand valve. I don't think so. I don't see why constant flow wouldn't work if done properly, but I'd like to see this person's arguments

Thanks. The setup I put together seemed logical to me, but that comment had me concerned. Take care

 

[k1w1]

Thank you. I'm considering SCBA... feeling a time crunch but trying to learn all I can to see if it's something I can make work. It's quite expensive unfortunately.

Try the Chinese sites. Very affordable, and you can ask for it sans tank. Im investigating this at present.

The shiny metal part on the right hand side of the black wheel, is the 'reducer' or regulator for a scba system.
It brings the pressure from the cylinder down from 2200 psi to around 100 psi.
Then from there the hose from the LDV is connected to it.
View attachment 142979

Some of the LDVs have their hose directly connected to this reducer.
While other LDVs (newer ones) have this kind of quick connection at the end that allows one to attach or unattach the hose line quickly.
I think the quick connection is the V style. Ive tested it and this appears to be the case. (background info: there are several styles of quick-connect parts...industrial, automotive, high flow V, etc)

View attachment 142980

Well if you are in Europe, India (which where I got an LDV from)...I would imagine one could obtain a full scba system.
One would need to check out fire fighting groups as a possible source. They are always getting rid of used equipment.
Well since you know about TIG welding...there are regulators available that allow for micro control of the flow.

I would like to assemble something like yours. Were you able to buy the kit without the tank?

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

On mine, the nut with the hole screws down over the threads, to which I added some thread tape...it is airtight. Looks like we have a similar regulator....built in flow meter>?
This may be of use to anyone setting up a nitrogen setup, particuarly with an EEBD hood. I had been informed that 15lpm was the correct flow, so bought a .9 cu mtr tank. I found after a few tests etc that I'd ripped through just under half & that I needed 25lpm for comfort. ....0.9 cubes is about 20mins at 25lpm. The gas swap people were very cool and I only had to pay 100 bucks difference to swap to 1.9 cu mtr. filled. Massive tank, feeling way more confidant. I am a motorcyclist and Nitro is used in tyres as the particles are larger so it doesnt leech or cause perishing as oxygen does. This is a sound reason to purchase the stuff. Best wishes.

 

[peacefuldeath2017]

Will the elastic draw chord completely sinch around the hose or will there be a gap that needs to be addressed to prevent airflow into the bag?

 

[Blockz]

People, it's not so complicated

Read the PPH

i have read the PPH but im still struggling to understand how to construct everything together and what tools & equipment is necessary for a successful build im based in the UK please pm me dont write on here

 

[kudaphillips]

Will the elastic draw chord completely sinch around the hose or will there be a gap that needs to be addressed to prevent airflow into the bag?

It's not gonna be air tight. It's not supposed to be. Yes where the tube meets the elastic will be a little gap

i have read the PPH but im still struggling to understand how to construct everything together and what tools & equipment is necessary for a successful build im based in the UK please pm me dont write on here

there's a few videos in this thread that are great. Asian guy, dude with the double helium tanks , Betty

What parts are you struggling with

 

[Blockz]

It's not gonna be air tight. It's not supposed to be. Yes where the tube meets the elastic will be a little gap

there's a few videos in this thread that are great. Asian guy, dude with the double helium tanks , Betty

What parts are you struggling with

i pm'd you i think better to speak in private

 

[SonicFan1994]

Good find. Would still need some sort of 1st stage pressure reducer.
But I would think that shouldnt be hard to find.
The hose connection on the ldv is a quick connect kind. I think it would be the high flow (Euro) kind. Type V style (the major D manuf ldv are)
Then its just connecting that to the regulator/reducer. Regulator would need to have an outflow of at least 100 psi.


View attachment 142968

Would air slip through the mask somewhere? And what exactly are those type of mask called? CPac?

 

[devils~advocate]

Would air slip through the mask somewhere? And what exactly are those type of mask called? CPac?

Air should not slip into the mask. Its made to be air tight, in this case for Fire Fighters. This mask is part of whats called "SCBA" Self contained breathing apparatus.

Try the Chinese sites. Very affordable, and you can ask for it sans tank. Im investigating this at present.

I would like to assemble something like yours. Were you able to buy the kit without the tank?

On mine, the nut with the hole screws down over the threads, to which I added some thread tape...it is airtight. Looks like we have a similar regulator....built in flow meter>?
This may be of use to anyone setting up a nitrogen setup, particuarly with an EEBD hood. I had been informed that 15lpm was the correct flow, so bought a .9 cu mtr tank. I found after a few tests etc that I'd ripped through just under half & that I needed 25lpm for comfort. ....0.9 cubes is about 20mins at 25lpm. The gas swap people were very cool and I only had to pay 100 bucks difference to swap to 1.9 cu mtr. filled. Massive tank, feeling way more confidant. I am a motorcyclist and Nitro is used in tyres as the particles are larger so it doesnt leech or cause perishing as oxygen does. This is a sound reason to purchase the stuff. Best wishes.

Let me know what you find out from any Chinese websites...Im curious what they offer.

Yes you can obtain all the parts individually. Im not even sure if you can get it with a tank. Those cylinders are made for oxygen anyway.
The individual parts are offered used, but they are still in working order. A lot cheaper than a new kit.

 

[k1w1]

Air should not slip into the mask. Its made to be air tight, in this case for Fire Fighters. This mask is part of whats called "SCBA" Self contained breathing apparatus.

Let me know what you find out from any Chinese websites...Im curious what they offer.

Yes you can obtain all the parts individually. Im not even sure if you can get it with a tank. Those cylinders are made for oxygen anyway.
The individual parts are offered used, but they are still in working order. A lot cheaper than a new kit.

ok, ill go window shopping and post what i come up with. Yes, i have seen plenty pre-owned gear....its a smart way to aquire the components.

 

[Amish]

Technical question, please I need a specialist answer :

On a regulator, is it possible to convert pressure into flow rate with math formula? I have this type of regulator, for Nitrogen


How to convert bar into l/min ?

Or does this, put a the exit will be enough to know the flow rate ? :


Thanks

 

[Blockz]

Hi, guys I posted here yesterday as I'm new here I am also a new member and have only just using the forums and threads since yesterday, I was wondering if any of you users are from the UK, I would greatly appreciate if you could pm me sources and links to all the equipment which is required since Adam's gas doesn't deliver to my area I'm going to have to do more research but in terms of the regulator/ flow meter and the tubing and any other equipment and tools are needed to carry out this method please do send sources and links I am looking to CTB asap so please do get back to me thankyou, I have read the pph in regards to this method but the method is via the exit bag and the is through scba which is somewhat different

 

[devils~advocate]

Technical question, please I need a specialist answer :

On a regulator, is it possible to convert pressure into flow rate with math formula? I have this type of regulator, for Nitrogen

View attachment 144315
How to convert bar into l/min ?

Or does this, put a the exit will be enough to know the flow rate ? :

View attachment 144316
Thanks

I dont believe one can convert pressure into flow directly.....its two different units....and I think it is dependent on the bore size of openings, hoses, etc.
There are flow rate calculators online.....but they seem daunting to use or there is a variable that one might not know.

There are regulators that have a built in flow meter on them. Or one can add in series to the gas flow.

This particular one is in cubic feet per hour (f3/hr).......and 15 L/m = 32 f3/hr
This one is calibrated for CO2, nitrogen's flow rate is less...so to get 15 L/m this would need to be set to about 45 f3/hr for nitrogen gas.
(I might be wrong, but I think the correction factor btwn CO2 & N is about 0.70)
(This one has the cga-580 thread connection that is used in nitrogen cylinders as well)

 

[rj3542]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for this site. I have bipolar and several health issues and have been suffering for 30 years. No problems with breathing though that would prohibit this method. My life has gotten to where I just can't keep going anymore. Everything is prepared down to instructions and my will.

I've been reading threads for several weeks and have a setup for nitrogen with EEBD. I went with EEBD because of so many challenges reported with getting the tightness of the exit bag just right and loosing too much nitrogen, but I do have an exit bag I tested with oxygen while waiting for the EEBD to arrive, and it inflates well and works fine. I have it just in case.

I have tested my EEBD several times with oxygen and everything worked well. I was fine with the hood on for even a few minutes with oxygen with no problems with CO2 buildup.

I was able to modify the EEBD hood so the internal mask part fits snug on my face but I can still feel air through the exhale valve when I breathe out. My gas line connections are definitely air tight too so no leaking from the tank to the EEBD.

Today I tried my setup breathing nitrogen for the first time. I have an Argon regulator with flow meter. I tried 40 CFH (which works out to about 22 liters per minute nitrogen, as I understand it). It was easy to breathe.

Within about 5 breaths of nitrogen thought I felt lightheaded but then my heart started pounding and severe anxiety kicked in. I had to stop. I'm at peace with dying. That doesn't scare me. Suffering scares me, but I think this was more physiological. This was about 3 hours ago and I'm still feeling sleepy, fuzzy headed and have a headache. I don't think CO2 would cause those symptoms that quickly, but maybe? This is why I think it was physiological from the nitrogen. I've read all the studies posted in the various threads, several experience posts, the PPH, final exit, etc. several times. I don't think it's as easy as PHP claims though.

I was still hoping I would pass out before the serious SI kicked in.

How can I get past the SI? Has anyone been able to pass out with EEBD? I need to CTB soon before I lose my chance. Thank you for any help!

 

[kudaphillips]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for this site. I have bipolar and several health issues and have been suffering for 30 years. No problems with breathing though that would prohibit this method. My life has gotten to where I just can't keep going anymore. Everything is prepared down to instructions and my will.

I've been reading threads for several weeks and have a setup for nitrogen with EEBD. I went with EEBD because of so many challenges reported with getting the tightness of the exit bag just right and loosing too much nitrogen, but I do have an exit bag I tested with oxygen while waiting for the EEBD to arrive, and it inflates well and works fine. I have it just in case.

I have tested my EEBD several times with oxygen and everything worked well. I was fine with the hood on for even a few minutes with oxygen with no problems with CO2 buildup.

I was able to modify the EEBD hood so the internal mask part fits snug on my face but I can still feel air through the exhale valve when I breathe out. My gas line connections are definitely air tight too so no leaking from the tank to the EEBD.

Today I tried my setup breathing nitrogen for the first time. I have an Argon regulator with flow meter. I tried 40 CFH (which works out to about 22 liters per minute nitrogen, as I understand it). It was easy to breathe.

Within about 5 breaths of nitrogen thought I felt lightheaded but then my heart started pounding and severe anxiety kicked in. I had to stop. I'm at peace with dying. That doesn't scare me. Suffering scares me, but I think this was more physiological. This was about 3 hours ago and I'm still feeling sleepy, fuzzy headed and have a headache. I don't think CO2 would cause those symptoms that quickly, but maybe? This is why I think it was physiological from the nitrogen. I've read all the studies posted in the various threads, several experience posts, the PPH, final exit, etc. several times. I don't think it's as easy as PHP claims though.

I was still hoping I would pass out before the serious SI kicked in.

How can I get past the SI? Has anyone been able to pass out with EEBD? I need to CTB soon before I lose my chance. Thank you for any help!

This happens to me also, other members don't seem to mention it. I get drenched In sweat, heart pounding etc, not sure if it's nervous system reaction or anxiety.or what

Also terrified of suffering , not dying . Wish I had the balls for shotgun method …fml

 

[rj3542]

@kudaphillips thanks for replying. Do you feel you can overcome it? I've researched every method.

I triedfill suspension hanging first, dozens of times, but I couldn't get coordinated enough to jump and kick the chair away. I can't get N or SN. Can't buy a gun. Researched jumping but only reliable option to get the height in my area would be a hot air balloon and I doubt I could get over the basket. Nitrogen is the only method I have now.

@ClownWorld2023 I saw in this thread you had trouble with using EEBD. If you're still here, did you find a way that works for you?

 

[kudaphillips]

@kudaphillips thanks for replying. Do you feel you can overcome it? I've researched every method.

I triedfill suspension hanging first, dozens of times, but I couldn't get coordinated enough to jump and kick the chair away. I can't get N or SN. Can't buy a gun. Researched jumping but only reliable option to get the height in my area would be a hot air balloon and I doubt I could get over the basket. Nitrogen is the only method I have now.

@ClownWorld2023 I saw in this thread you had trouble with using EEBD. If you're still here, did you find a way that works for you?

I have never done an actual 100% attempt. Can I overcome th SI? I have no idea . It's because of SI that I haven't fully attempted . I've got to think when the heart starts pounding I could last 30 mor seconds , and just force myself, make a game out of it maybe

I have firearms but when that barrel is in your mouth it's scary, whenever I decide to try I actually end up shying away more each time based on th fear from it .. the closest I ever ad to pulling the trigger was prob first time I put the barrel in my mouth . Done it like 300 times since

 

[outrider567]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for this site. I have bipolar and several health issues and have been suffering for 30 years. No problems with breathing though that would prohibit this method. My life has gotten to where I just can't keep going anymore. Everything is prepared down to instructions and my will.

I've been reading threads for several weeks and have a setup for nitrogen with EEBD. I went with EEBD because of so many challenges reported with getting the tightness of the exit bag just right and loosing too much nitrogen, but I do have an exit bag I tested with oxygen while waiting for the EEBD to arrive, and it inflates well and works fine. I have it just in case.

I have tested my EEBD several times with oxygen and everything worked well. I was fine with the hood on for even a few minutes with oxygen with no problems with CO2 buildup.

I was able to modify the EEBD hood so the internal mask part fits snug on my face but I can still feel air through the exhale valve when I breathe out. My gas line connections are definitely air tight too so no leaking from the tank to the EEBD.

Today I tried my setup breathing nitrogen for the first time. I have an Argon regulator with flow meter. I tried 40 CFH (which works out to about 22 liters per minute nitrogen, as I understand it). It was easy to breathe.

Within about 5 breaths of nitrogen thought I felt lightheaded but then my heart started pounding and severe anxiety kicked in. I had to stop. I'm at peace with dying. That doesn't scare me. Suffering scares me, but I think this was more physiological. This was about 3 hours ago and I'm still feeling sleepy, fuzzy headed and have a headache. I don't think CO2 would cause those symptoms that quickly, but maybe? This is why I think it was physiological from the nitrogen. I've read all the studies posted in the various threads, several experience posts, the PPH, final exit, etc. several times. I don't think it's as easy as PHP claims though.

I was still hoping I would pass out before the serious SI kicked in.

How can I get past the SI? Has anyone been able to pass out with EEBD? I need to CTB soon before I lose my chance. Thank you for any help!

You need an Oximeter to make sure you're getting enough Nitrogen-- I Tested 6 times with the EEBD Hood, after 5 breaths, Oxygen level dropped to 80, ripped off the tight fitting hood and my Oxygen level dropped to 40--Think I felt slightly light-headed--Used 25 LPM rate---Das Nichts did what you did and passed out, fell to the floor and dislodged the Nitrogen, otherwise he wouldn't be here---I had no anxiety breathing in the Nitrogen, other than pulse jumping which is normal--Das Nichts said just before he passed out and everything was very peaceful--He did give the odd remark that he saw red and green lights before he passed out

 

[devils~advocate]

I guess one could take something to help with being calm. I might use THC Delta 8-9 to help calm myself down when the time comes.
I was under the assumption that Nitrogen would bring on unconsciousness fairly quickly.
There are videos of how this happens shown in an experiment with pigs.
The pig sticks his head into a chamber that has food in it,,,but also filled with gas....it falls unconscious very quickly.....staggers out & regains composure.....only to stick its head back into the chamber to eat. It proved that there were no aversions from the process.
Nitrous oxide when used in the past by dentistry etc, supposedly had a euphoric effect (well being, happiness), so I would think this would be similar.
I like this aspect very much. My hope is that it is peaceful, happy and quick.

 

[EscapeFromLife]

This thread's post seems too complicated to me. Inert gas could be a method of my choice because it seems painless, quick, 100% death guarantee. But the set up is very hard to follow as written here. Could anyone kindly suggest a possible simplified version that can also work for this method? Thanks.

 

[rj3542]

@outrider567 I used the pulse oximeter for the test today and increased the flow more. O2 went down to the 50s when I started convulsing mildly in my arms, like they were jumping a little. I didn't pass out, though after about 45 seconds. I'll try again in a bit.

 

[outrider567]

@outrider567 I used the pulse oximeter for the test today and increased the flow more. O2 went down to the 50s when I started convulsing mildly in my arms, like they were jumping a little. I didn't pass out, though after about 45 seconds. I'll try again in a bit.

It went down in the 50's after you removed the hood?

I guess one could take something to help with being calm. I might use THC Delta 8-9 to help calm myself down when the time comes.
I was under the assumption that Nitrogen would bring on unconsciousness fairly quickly.
There are videos of how this happens shown in an experiment with pigs.
The pig sticks his head into a chamber that has food in it,,,but also filled with gas....it falls unconscious very quickly.....staggers out & regains composure.....only to stick its head back into the chamber to eat. It proved that there were no aversions from the process.
Nitrous oxide when used in the past by dentistry etc, supposedly had a euphoric effect (well being, happiness), so I would think this would be similar.
I like this aspect very much. My hope is that it is peaceful, happy and quick.

Just ask Das Nichts, he passed out pretty fast from the Nitrogen at 25 LPM

 

[rj3542]

@EscapeFromLife I kept it simple with a nitrogen tank, argon regulator with flow meter that came with a hose barb so I knew it would fit, an EEBD hood off an auction site that I cut the hose off the air tank and connected to the hose barb and secured with a hose clamps. The only tools were a large crescent wrench for the regulator and flat head screw driver for the hose clamp.

I don't think there are any guarantees though. I'm still practicing with my setup to be able to keep the hood on long enough to pass out.

@outrider567 My O2 was in the 50s with the hood on when I aborted. I took the oximeter off to remove the hood and then rechecked and O2 was already back in the 90s. I'd had a few breaths of air at that point getting the hood off. Any thoughts? Really appreciate your help. I've never passed out from drinking even when others having the same amount did (I'm a small person) so there may be something different about my neurology. I had a TBI as a child.

@Das Nichts do you mind sharing your experience or point me where to read about it if you posted somewhere? What's your setup?

 

[kudaphillips]

@outrider567 I used the pulse oximeter for the test today and increased the flow more. O2 went down to the 50s when I started convulsing mildly in my arms, like they were jumping a little. I didn't pass out, though after about 45 seconds. I'll try again in a bit.

This is very unsettling to hear that you didn't pass out after 45 seconds . Is this with exit bag ? Did you hyperventilate and take a larg first breath ? Scrunch all th air out of the bag beforehand ?

 

[rj3542]

This is very unsettling to hear that you didn't pass out after 45 seconds . Is this with exit bag ? Did you hyperventilate and take a larg first breath ? Scrunch all th air out of the bag beforehand ?

@kudaphillips I'm using EEBD hood modified to be right around my nose and mouth with an exit valve (because I read so much about people having trouble with exit bags - more details about my setup in posts above).

I exhaled as much as I could and then took deep breaths. I converted the flow to be around 25Liters per minute nitrogen (40 CFH argon). The first few breaths are easy. Then my heart starts racing and I get mild jerky convulsions in my arms. I've tried with the hood attached to oxygen and I don't have any trouble with CO2 buildup. I can feel air leaving the mask through the valve when I exhale.

Any thoughts? Thank you so much! I really need to figure out how to make this work.

 

[outrider567]

@EscapeFromLife I kept it simple with a nitrogen tank, argon regulator with flow meter that came with a hose barb so I knew it would fit, an EEBD hood off an auction site that I cut the hose off the air tank and connected to the hose barb and secured with a hose clamps. The only tools were a large crescent wrench for the regulator and flat head screw driver for the hose clamp.

I don't think there are any guarantees though. I'm still practicing with my setup to be able to keep the hood on long enough to pass out.

@outrider567 My O2 was in the 50s with the hood on when I aborted. I took the oximeter off to remove the hood and then rechecked and O2 was already back in the 90s. I'd had a few breaths of air at that point getting the hood off. Any thoughts? Really appreciate your help. I've never passed out from drinking even when others having the same amount did (I'm a small person) so there may be something different about my neurology. I had a TBI as a child.

@Das Nichts do you mind sharing your experience or point me where to read about it if you posted somewhere? What's your setup?

Das Nichts hasn't posted since Oct 2023---Having your O2 level drop to the 50's while still having the EEBD Hood on is rather dangerous, counting the 5 to ten second delay

 

[kudaphillips]

@kudaphillips I'm using EEBD hood modified to be right around my nose and mouth with an exit valve (because I read so much about people having trouble with exit bags - more details about my setup in posts above).

I exhaled as much as I could and then took deep breaths. I converted the flow to be around 25Liters per minute nitrogen (40 CFH argon). The first few breaths are easy. Then my heart starts racing and I get mild jerky convulsions in my arms. I've tried with the hood attached to oxygen and I don't have any trouble with CO2 buildup. I can feel air leaving the mask through the valve when I exhale.

Any thoughts? Thank you so much! I really need to figure out how to make this work.

What problems have you heard with exit bags ?

 

[rj3542]

What problems have you heard with exit bags ?

I've been reading this thread and related ones for a while and it seems some people go for 5 minutes or more without becoming unconscious, using a lot of gas. I wonder if it's tricky to get the tightness of the exit bag just right. Some people also talked about it coming off easily.

Das Nichts hasn't posted since Oct 2023---Having your O2 level drop to the 50's while still having the EEBD Hood on is rather dangerous, counting the 5 to ten second delay

Thanks @outrider567 . Hopefully he went in peace if he ctb'd.

Yeah, the 50% makes me leery to keep experimenting. Gotta be some way for this to work though.

 

[kudaphillips]

I've been reading this thread and related ones for a while and it seems some people go for 5 minutes or more without becoming unconscious, using a lot of gas. I wonder if it's tricky to get the tightness of the exit bag just right. Some people also talked about it coming off easily.

Thanks @outrider567 . Hopefully he went in peace if he ctb'd.

Yeah, the 50% makes me leery to keep experimenting. Gotta be some way for this to work though.

I'd be interested in reading those accounts if you know which page Theyr on. The ones I've seen the people were doing things obviously wrong , like a few pages back the guy didn't even use elastic chord or a toggle he just tied a rope around the bag ,

I think the bag can be pretty tight on the neck ( not that I suggest overly tight ). I've experimented with the bag pretty damn tight and the air still escapes. People,who said the bag came off certainly didn't make it correctly or follow proper procedure.

 

[devils~advocate]

This thread's post seems too complicated to me. Inert gas could be a method of my choice because it seems painless, quick, 100% death guarantee. But the set up is very hard to follow as written here. Could anyone kindly suggest a possible simplified version that can also work for this method? Thanks.

Which method are you referring to? I mean to produce some visual images that would explain the systems / methods. But I'd need input from others to verify and proof read. Maybe outrider567, kudaphillips can help review.

 

[EscapeFromLife]

Which method are you referring to? I mean to produce some visual images that would explain the systems / methods. But I'd need input from others to verify and proof read. Maybe outrider567, kudaphillips can help review.

@devils~advocate I am referring to the exit bag and inert gas (N2/Ar/He) method.