Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Kapsyl]

A thought that crossed my mind. Does a flow meter for example set at 15l/pm and regulator at maybe 3-4 bar. Will the pressure never exceed 3-4 bar? Will it stop the flow when the atmosphere which it is connected to is equal?

In my mind it should but I'm just checking, don't want to fail.

 

[Elzar]

Any ideas how I could check if the flow-meter works correctly?
At 15lpm, how long should it take to fill a 55x60 bag?

 

[thegoldengirls]

Well done, bullshit usually works with businesses, as the bottom line always comes first. I got the wierdest look when buying mine in person and rattling off nonsense about home-brew beer. I would say that once that execution went down in the US things could tighten up. The method has been round for 15 years, coroners event reports exist : but I can't shake the feeling that it would not hurt at all to buy a good size cylinder now.

It can be purchased in person from a gas supplier in a town near you.

thanks for the response. Two of them allow whatever is in the hood to enter the mask. The large one exits to the atmosphere. Im going to have to test the bloody thing. This job takes some fine tuning.

You're exactly right. People should really get their supply and stock up, and make up a business just in case they are asked. I actually kind of regret not getting two tanks, but when I think about it, I won't be here anymore to use the second tank anyway. Lol. Considering things work out in my favor.
I know the rep told me three days, but I will be on edge until I know it's been officialy shipped.
I feel like the interaction started off slightly awkward, but was smooth over when I mentioned gifting my imaginary father this cylinder for a project, for his business and insisted that it be shipped before his birthday next week. Lmao. I dunno. Maybe sounded silly in hindsight, but I imagine gruff welder type men who are into these type of things would actually be happy to be gifted tools and gases for projects. Just told her bs hoping to sound as lax and believable as possible.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

A thought that crossed my mind. Does a flow meter for example set at 15l/pm and regulator at maybe 3-4 bar. Will the pressure never exceed 3-4 bar? Will it stop the flow when the atmosphere which it is connected to is equal?

In my mind it should but I'm just checking, don't want to fail.

I don't know exactly how the flow rate and pressure interplay with eachother.
It's been a long time I looked it up, but it's quite complicated because of the physics laws themselves, and the other factors like the type of hose used (diameter, etc) and the way it's connected.
Someone actually posted a question about this on some forum, but he gave out too many wrong details. The thread got shady and the moderator there locked it up.

 

[Kapsyl]

I don't know exactly how the flow rate and pressure interplay with eachother.
It's been a long time I looked it up, but it's quite complicated because of the physics laws themselves, and the other factors like the type of hose used (diameter, etc) and the way it's connected.
Someone actually posted a question about this on some forum, but he gave out too many wrong details. The thread got shady and the moderator there locked it up.

On my setup the flow meter is connected after the regulator, the flow meter handles 50 psi maximum. So in my mind the flow meter would stop after the pressure is equal, whatever that would be 30, 40, 50 psi.

On the exit bag that would never happen since there is a ventilation hole, it just makes sense in my particular case.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Any ideas how I could check if the flow-meter works correctly?
At 15lpm, how long should it take to fill a 55x60 bag?

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.

On my setup the flow meter is connected after the regulator, the flow meter handles 50 psi maximum. So in my mind the flow meter would stop after the pressure is equal, whatever that would be 30, 40, 50 psi.

On the exit bag that would never happen since there is a ventilation hole, it just makes sense in my particular case.

Do you have a photo or screenshot of the regulator you're using?

 

[Kapsyl]

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.


Do you have a photo or screenshot of the regulator you're using?

The regulator is built in the tube itself, 0.5-50 bar. Another user have the exact setup I think, but I'm pretty sure he CTB since he said he would do it the same day he posted.

My flow meter


The similar setup

 

[Elzar]

Your regulator should show the pressure of the incoming gas flow from the gas cylinder on the first gauge.
This should be (approximately) the same as the rated pressure of the gas cylinder, or lower if you've already consumed some gas before.

The flow-meter should indicate 0 LPM (or CFH).
Nearby there should be a knob you can adjust by rotating to increase/decrease the flow rate.

Yeah, I got this one now:


I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Yeah, I got this one now:
View attachment 129527

I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate. View attachment 129529

There are helium flowmeters available in U.S. and U.K.

One I came across has markings(standard cubic foot per hour(SCFH) for argon, helium, and CO2. The argon markings go from 5 at the bottom to 50 at the top. Helium goes from 20 at the bottom to 150 at the top.

So, even though the bottom markings may not be directly across from each other, the top helium marking (150) is 3 times the top argon marking(50).
So, like I said previously, 5lpm on argon flowmeter is probably 15lpm(3x argon) helium.

If you're worried, for peace of mind maybe you should get a helium one.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

The regulator is built in the tube itself, 0.5-50 bar. Another user have the exact setup I think, but I'm pretty sure he CTB since he said he would do it the same day he posted.

My flow meter
View attachment 129512

The similar setup

View attachment 129514

That cylinder has the pressure regulator built-in.
Does it only show the pressure?

Have you been able to connect the flowmeter?

What happens if you set the pressure to 1 bar? What does the flowmeter show?

Yeah, I got this one now:
View attachment 129527

I'm using Helium, so I have to triple the Argon readings (thanks Tears in Rain!) - it seems to work well now.
But I'd still like a way to check if the flow-rate is accurate. View attachment 129529

I don't know of any way besides maybe connecting a standalone helium flowmeter to the regulator outlet.

 

[Elzar]

There are helium flowmeters available in U.S. and U.K.

One I came across has markings(standard cubic foot per hour(SCFH) for argon, helium, and CO2. The argon markings go from 5 at the bottom to 50 at the top. Helium goes from 20 at the bottom to 150 at the top.

So, even though the bottom markings may not be directly across from each other, the top helium marking (150) is 3 times the top argon marking(50).
So, like I said previously, 5lpm on argon flowmeter is probably 15lpm(3x argon) helium.

If you're worried, for peace of mind maybe you should get a helium one.

Thank you.
Those don't have the 21x8 connection I think.
But yeah, I'm relatively certain that x3 is about right.
Would be interesting to know If the conversion rate is completely linear.
That's something that could be a bit of a problem I guess.
Anyway, I just filled a 20 liter bag with a 5 lpm flowrate on the Argon scale (which, then, should be around 15 lpm for Helium) in about 50 seconds.
I don't know exactly what the liter measurement on a freezer bag refers to, of course - when you seal it by hand, you actually lose some surface area... Assuming that's the case and the effective filling volume is indeed slightly smaller as a result, then the 50 seconds might not be that far off?

Edit:
Nah, I think the filling volume refers to volume you can get into a bag and actually still seal it (at least that's what ChatGPT says).
So that would mean, that I filled 20 liters in 50 seconds time - which would be 24 lpm.
Maybe you're on to something here and at low lpm the conversion rate is closer to x4 (if my math above is correct,which it likely isn't, it would be close to x5).
Oh dear, the complications!^^

 

[Kapsyl]

I have a screenshot which mentions how fast it should fill up, not sure how accurate but maybe will help point you in right direction.

 

[Elzar]

I have a screenshot which mentions how fast it should fill up, not sure how accurate but maybe will help point you in right direction.

View attachment 129545

What balloon is this referring to?

Even the PPeH is confusing in that regard.
Both, the german and the english version speak of a 35x50 Exit Bag and 15 lpm of gas - but the german version says the bag should fill up in one minute, while the english one speaks of two.

I don't know of any way besides maybe connecting a standalone helium flowmeter to the regulator outlet

I haven't really found anything like that (for the german market at least) - even GD-shop told me to just use an Argon meter and convert. Didn't get into any details as to how...

 

[thegoldengirls]

@Tears in Rain
I have a question for you or anyone else that may answer.
Originally, I ordered a disposable cylinder Nitrogen (99.999% Pure) 550 liter cylinder from a particular company.
However, I feel I may have to abort using this particular cylinder I ordered because I have a feeling they maybe stringing me along to not ship. Now the weekend is here, so there will be an even longer delay.

I'm so frustrated with them, I really want to just call them to ask for a refund and tell them they will just lose my business if they do not want to ship it to me.

On the other hand, I've since found a local beer Brewery company, they claim that their Nitrogen is 100%. They even go on to state it is not beer gas, and place emphasis on it being 100% which is great reassurance considering what we really need these things for. I know they're are different types of Nitrogen, but they only say it's %100.
The issue is that their biggest tanks are 40 Cubic Feet and probably involves a rental fee.

Will using Nitrogen of this small capacity be too risky?
I've read a post from that very nice poster Tiredhorse that used to be here on this forum, and he mentioned that that a 40 cubic feet is about the smallest that should be used. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Tears in Rain]

@Tears in Rain
I have a question for you or anyone else that may answer.
Originally, I ordered a disposable cylinder Nitrogen (99.999% Pure) 550 liter cylinder from a particular company.
However, I feel I may have to abort using this particular cylinder I ordered because I have a feeling they maybe stringing me along to not ship. Now the weekend is here, so there will be an even longer delay.
View attachment 129550
I'm so frustrated with them, I really want to just call them to ask for a refund because these methods are draining my pockets.

Why would they string you along if they're making money off you? Do you think they're suspicious about why you want it, after the phone call you had with them?

On the other hand, I've since found a local beer Brewery company, they claim that their Nitrogen is 100%. They even go on to state it is not beer gas, and place emphasis on it being 100%.
The issue is that their biggest tanks are 40 Cubic Feet and probably involves a rental fee.
View attachment 129549
Will using Nitrogen of this small capacity be too risky?
I've read a post from tiredhorse, and he mentioned that that a 40 cubic feet is about the smallest that should be used. What are your thoughts on this?

40cu/ft = 1132 litres of compressed gas, so loads. If you set the regulator to 15lpm for Nitrogen, that gives roughly 75 mins of gas; you'll be long gone by the time that tank is finished!

Yeah, the rental thing is hassle. A lot of places worldwide only do rental, and some companies maybe charge a yearly rental fee if the cylinder isn't returned. But you'll be gone and your bank accounts closed, so it won't matter.
It says 'does not ship', are you good to collect?

You seem in a rush from what you posted previously, are you planning to ctb soon, if that's not too personal a question to ask?

Even the PPeH is confusing in that regard.
Both, the german and the english version speak of a 35x50 Exit Bag and 15 lpm of gas - but the german version says the bag should fill up in one minute, while the english one speaks of two.

Why are you so concerned about how long it takes for the bag to fill?
The last 5 acts has this recommendation for the bag:

 

[Elzar]

Why are you so concerned about how long it takes for the bag to fill?

Mostly because it would be a pretty good indicator if the flow-rate is correct.
Especially because the PPeH does recommend a size. You'd think that size would relate to the time they tell you to expect the bag to fill up.

 

[thegoldengirls]

Why would they string you along if they're making money off you? Do you think they're suspicious about why you want it, after the phone call you had with them?


40cu/ft = 1132 litres of compressed gas, so loads. If you set the regulator to 15lpm for Nitrogen, that gives roughly 75 mins of gas; you'll be long gone by the time that tank is finished!

Yeah, the rental thing is hassle. A lot of places worldwide only do rental, and some companies maybe charge a yearly rental fee if the cylinder isn't returned. But you'll be gone and your bank accounts closed, so it won't matter.
It says 'does not ship', are you good to collect?

You seem in a rush from what you posted previously, are you planning to ctb soon, if that's not too personal a question to ask?

I'll admit, my mental health is not the best because I'm having a very bad depressive episode. So, that maybe the reason why I'm not thinking logically and have become illogical and paranoid with thinking they won't ship.
I'm sure they would have just refunded me if they had hesitation on shipping me the Nitrogen.

On the other hand, If I do encounter an issue with company number one, it's very reassuring to know that company number two is an option.
I may just give myself by Thursday to decide what I'm going to do, and go with company 2 if I don't get my order from company 1 by then.

There is no deadline in particular for me to ctb, but I was hoping to do it this upcoming week. It's perfect timing because I have 3 days straight off from work, and my sibling will be out of the country.
We do not live together, but her being preoccupied with her travels will take any attention off of me.

These two different situations makes for perfect timing to ctb as no one will be too concerned to do a welfare check, and I'll be long gone by the time they do.

And no, that's not too personal to ask.
I'm just eager to finally have a peace of mind for once in my life by ctb. Depressive Intrusive thoughts has been running amok in my mind. An abrupt breakup of a friendship I valued immensely triggered these feelings. But I've always wanted to ctb on and off throughout the past several years. It would be nice to join my dear departed mom.
How about yourself? Do you have any plans to ctb in the future or are you here for the comradery this forum provides?

 

[Tears in Rain]

I'll admit, my mental health is not the best because I'm having a very bad depressive episode. So, that maybe the reason why I'm not thinking logically and have become illogical and paranoid with thinking they won't ship.
I'm sure they would have just refunded me if they had hesitation on shipping me the Nitrogen.

On the other hand, If I do encounter an issue with company number one, it's very reassuring to know that company number two is an option.
I may just give myself by Thursday to decide what I'm going to do, and go with company 2 if I don't get my order from company 1 by then.

There is no deadline in particular for me to ctb, but I was hoping to do it this upcoming week. It's perfect timing because I have 3 days straight off from work, and my sibling will be out of the country.
We do not live together, but her being preoccupied with her travels will take any attention off of me.

These two different situations makes for perfect timing to ctb as no one will be too concerned to do a welfare check, and I'll be long gone by the time they do.

And no, that's not too personal to ask.
I'm just eager to finally have a peace of mind for once in my life by ctb. Depressive Intrusive thoughts has been running amok in my mind. An abrupt breakup of a friendship I valued immensely triggered these feelings. But I've always wanted to ctb on and off throughout the past several years. It would be nice to join my dear departed mom.
How about yourself? Do you have any plans to ctb in the future or are you here for the comradery this forum provides?

Sorry about your situation.

Yeah, having gone back over your previous post, you did say the lady was asking a lot of questions about having a business address, etc. Maybe give it until the 5 business days from that call to see if it arrives.

But if getting the other cylinder fits in with the perfect timeframe that you originally planned, then I guess it's worth considering the alternative.

Me, I attempted once a few months back with a hood and nitrogen, but S.I. got the better of me. Due to other things happening in my life I put off another attempt. But I don't see my overall situation changing, so I don't know how long I'll put it off.

For now I guess I'm just passing time here, and passing on any info I acquired from others previously on this thread. Not sure how much longer I'll stick around.

 

[bcl001]

Hi team! Exploring inert gas as an option after failed hanging attempts.

Is there a definitive guide around nitrogen purity requirements? I have access to >99% pure however there seems to be info floating around that this might not be sufficient? Does the extra 0.xx% make a material difference?

The source is direct from the PPEH for my country. Fact sheet contains the following:

Ingredient: NITROGEN
CAS Number: 7727-37-9
EC Number: 231-783-9
Content: >99%

There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the
concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment
and hence require reporting in this section.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Hi team! Exploring inert gas as an option after failed hanging attempts.

Is there a definitive guide around nitrogen purity requirements? I have access to >99% pure however there seems to be info floating around that this might not be sufficient? Does the extra 0.xx% make a material difference?

The source is direct from the PPEH for my country. Fact sheet contains the following:

Ingredient: NITROGEN
CAS Number: 7727-37-9
EC Number: 231-783-9
Content: >99%

There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the
concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment
and hence require reporting in this section.

The PPeH, The Last Five Acts, and @Intoxicated all say a purity of 98% and higher is fine.

Can you elaborate the need for such a high purity? I don't see reasons why 98 - 98.5% Ar wouldn't work well enough.

98% Ar + 2% N2 should be okay, because N2 is just another inert gas.
98% Ar + 2% O2 should be okay, because concentrations of O2 below 6% are lethal and cause fainting quickly. [1]
98.5% Ar + 1.5% CO2 can be slightly worse but still okay, because concentrations of CO2 at 15000 - 20000 ppm cause mild effects during short periods of time [2], and you can hyperventilate to negate these effects.

[1]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6474450/

NIOSH Publication No. 2005-100 Respirator Selection Logic 2004 Chapter V. Additional Information on Hazards and Exposures

The purpose of this Respirator Selection Logic (RSL) is to provide guidance to respirator program administrators on respirator selection that incorporates the changes necessitated by the revisions to the respirator use and certification regulations and...

niosh.dnacih.com

[2]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ina.12939

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/2020-08/Carbon-Dioxide.pdf

 

[bcl001]

The PPeH, The Last Five Acts, and @Intoxicated all say a purity of 98% and higher is fine.
View attachment 129594

View attachment 129595

Thanks mate, clear, concise and much appreciated!

May I ask which version of the PPEH you're referring too? I can't see any mention of purity in the version I'm looking at which makes me wonder what else I'm missing

 

[Tears in Rain]

Thanks mate, clear, concise and much appreciated!

May I ask which version of the PPEH you're referring too? I can't see any mention of purity in the version I'm looking at which makes me wonder what else I'm missing

The 2022 one.

The Peaceful Pill Handbook 2022 (Free PDF Download) : Philip Nitschke : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Peaceful Pill Handbook book series provides research and information on voluntary euthanasia and assisted dying for the elderly, those who are seriously...

archive.org

 

[Justnotme]

I have a question. Let's say I have a nitrogen regulator. The right circle as well as the left circle show measurements in mpa (megapascals). That is, one circle shows the pressure under which the nitrogen is in the cylinder, and the second circle shows the outlet pressure (that is, the one I want to set)

Can I not use a rotameter, but use a balloon to see how many seconds it takes to inflate?

That is, I will set a certain value in megapascals on the second circle and thus I will find out whether this value specified in megapascals is suitable by inflating a balloon

Is this a good idea?

 

[bcl001]

Purchased a nitrogen cylinder today. Very easy to do. Slight issue with purchasing a regulator however. It seems Nitrogen bottle attachment (Type50) is a different fitting to argon canisters which means, if you're Australian as I am, you may have to chase down a nitrogen regulator from an online store. Non nitrogen regulators, in Aus at least, won't work as advised in the PPEH (and creating adaptors was not recommended by the bloke behind the counter). That said I found a specific nitrogen regulator with a max flow rate of 25L/min which looks to be sufficient elsewhere (although there weren't many to be found at a reasonable price).

Explored EEDB masks, et.al but finding one under $300 aud proved difficult so going with a home made exit bag.

Just waiting for the regulator to arrive and I'm good to go

 

[outrider567]

Hi team! Exploring inert gas as an option after failed hanging attempts.

Is there a definitive guide around nitrogen purity requirements? I have access to >99% pure however there seems to be info floating around that this might not be sufficient? Does the extra 0.xx% make a material difference?

The source is direct from the PPEH for my country. Fact sheet contains the following:

Ingredient: NITROGEN
CAS Number: 7727-37-9
EC Number: 231-783-9
Content: >99%

There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the
concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment
and hence require reporting in this section.

99.0% Nitrogen is perfectly acceptable to successfully CTB as per Greenberg and a website called Quora

 

[Tears in Rain]

Some people elsewhere were wondering if there were clear step-by-step instructions in making an exit bag. There were videos linked here before, like Betty's how-to video, and Chi's video, that show how to make the exit bag using elastic chord and a toggle.
Also a linked PPeH Exit bag pdf.

The latest editions of Final Exit by Derek Humphry only mention using a sports headband/sweatband around the exit bag neck.



It may be an easier method than using an elastic.
Here how the headband method was done in The Last Five Acts:





There's another good step-by-step video on creating the exit bag via elastic and toggle, that I haven't seen linked her before. It also shows how to tape the tubing to the bag. The video uses two helium cannisters without a regulator, which many people used in the past. I personally would use a gas regulator.

Dignified Helium Exit video

 

[Tears in Rain]

Explored EEDB masks, et.al but finding one under $300 aud proved difficult so going with a home made exit bag.

If you really want a cheap EEBD/ELSA hood, then Google search "EEBD hood spare parts". It should bring up some Chinese vendors, where you can get them relatively cheap. With just a hose attached to the hood(no air cylinder).
But an exit bag is fine to use.

 

[Tears in Rain]

There's another good step-by-step video on creating the exit bag via elastic and toggle, that I haven't seen linked her before. It also shows how to tape the tubing to the bag. The video uses two helium cannisters without a regulator, which many people used in the past. I personally would use a gas regulator.

Dignified Helium Exit video

Here's the Veoh version of the above-mentioned video. You don't have to set up an account to view the video on the Veoh site, like you do with Vimeo.

Step-by-step helium method video
(no regulator used).

 

[withouthope]

If money is not a concern what setup is the most foolproof way to use this method?

 

[Kapsyl]

If money is not a concern what setup is the most foolproof way to use this method?

Realistically Scba or Scuba

Or those pods they use in Switzerland, either building one or traveling there. But if you have that amount there are even better methods I guess.