Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[outrider567]

I purchased a 125cf nitrogen tank, regulator, flowmeter, and the 3M Versaflo hood + 3M breathing tube.

According to PPeH, the hood should be able to connect to the cylinder via 3M breathing tube, but I feel I'm missing an adapter to achieve this, that wasn't specified in PPeH. Can anyone help me figure this out?

The hood doesn't connect to the cylinder, the hood connects to the flowmeter via tubing, which connects to the regulator, which connects to the Nitrogen tank

 

[Vizzy]

I purchased a 125cf nitrogen tank, regulator, flowmeter, and the 3M Versaflo hood + 3M breathing tube.

According to PPeH, the hood should be able to connect to the cylinder via 3M breathing tube, but I feel I'm missing an adapter to achieve this, that wasn't specified in PPeH. Can anyone help me figure this out?

Please Send the pictures

3M versaflo hood is not the right one, problem is nitrogen gas will come from the back of the hood, where you will rest your head ?

 

[GasMonkey]

I'm missing an adapter to achieve this

It would be interesting if somebody with access to the EXIT forums would ask Dr Philip Nitschke how he did this connection in his Hood video on the PPeH:

 

[shadowfinal311]

Ok, thanks for the replies. Hmm...I guess this is a no go. Should I just find an EEBD hood instead?

 

[outrider567]

Ok, thanks for the replies. Hmm...I guess this is a no go. Should I just find an EEBD hood instead?

That's what I'm using

 

[GasMonkey]

The EEBD hood is very good.
You will also have to find an adapter to connect the EEBD hood to the output of the flow regulator.
The era of the "ready to use kits" ended when the Police took down escMode, now you have to do your homework to build a good setup.

 

[GasMonkey]

Just saw a similar case to the SlovakGuy's one (Nitrogen SCUBA) that happened even before him:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20198300.html
Interestingly the guy was a Blizzard employee.

 

[Das Nichts]

It would be interesting if somebody with access to the EXIT forums would ask Dr Philip Nitschke how he did this connection in his Hood video on the PPeH:
View attachment 112965

Well, with that flow rate you can probably just cut a hole into a plastic cap, seal it and be good to go.

 

[shadowfinal311]

Well, with that flow rate you can probably just cut a hole into a plastic cap, seal it and be good to go.

I've been thinking about this as well. Gonna buy some 1.5in rubber spacers to see if it will suffice.

 

[ztem]

This stuff is interesting for regions where there is no air-to-nitrogen adapter to use a native SCBA regulator

Is it okay to tell someone whose job is to make adapters to make one locally?
Obviously these adapters don't come from the sky,this is the work of the adapter maker

 

[Decoy-Salamander]

I have found a Hobart 5 lb. Argon/CO2 Shielding Gas Cylinder locally. It is about $200. Is this a good one? Can I find an adapter easily do you think?

EDIT: just read in forum search nitro is better. I will try to find this.

 

[Vizzy]

Well, with that flow rate you can probably just cut a hole into a plastic cap, seal it and be good to go.

which way you mean?

I have found a Hobart 5 lb. Argon/CO2 Shielding Gas Cylinder locally. It is about $200. Is this a good one? Can I find an adapter easily do you think?

EDIT: just read in forum search nitro is better. I will try to find this.

If you can't find nitrogen, argon is okay too but no co2 in the cylinder, it should be only nitrogen or argon

 

[Das Nichts]

which way you mean?

From the reg to the eebd tubing.

 

[Vizzy]

From the reg to the eebd tubing.

Now I got it, thank you

 

[GasMonkey]

Is it okay to tell someone whose job is to make adapters to make one locally?
Obviously these adapters don't come from the sky,this is the work of the adapter maker

If they have the proper machinery and training they should be able to craft it.

 

[lion4000b]

Is it okay to tell someone whose job is to make adapters to make one locally?
Obviously these adapters don't come from the sky,this is the work of the adapter maker

A good mechanical engineer will be able to make an adapter

 

[lion4000b]

Im in Europe and I have a nitrogen cylinder with an Italian style UNI4409 connection.

I have two options:
1. Buy the SCBA kit and get mechanical engineer to make an adapter to connect it, or
2. Buy a regulator and EEBD hood.

Can anyone assist me with the latter? I searched and cant find a referrence to any regulator that fits the UNI4409. From memory I dont even think the operation in Canada made them (although I think he was planning on doing so)

 

[Vizzy]

A good mechanical engineer will be able to make an adapter

I don't think you need a mechanical engineer to do a adapter, just go to good lathe machine operating guy, say your requirements and he will make a adapter

 

[lion4000b]

I don't think you need a mechanical engineer to do a adapter, just go to good lathe machine operating guy, say your requirements and he will make a adapter

where would you find a lathe machine operating guy? I assume you still need to go to a mechanical engineering company?

 

[Vizzy]

where would you find a lathe machine operating guy? I assume you still need to go to a mechanical engineering company?

Place I live, lathe machine operating guy have his own shop, I don't know about your country

You know approaching a mechanical engineering company is gonna increase your setup cost pretty high?

How much money you planning to spend on building a nitrogen setup?

 

[lion4000b]

Place I live, lathe machine operating guy have his own shop, I don't know about your country

You know approaching a mechanical engineering company is gonna increase your setup cost pretty high?

How much money you planning to spend on building a nitrogen setup?

Ill see if I can find one in my country.

Tbh Im happy to pay an engineer to oversee the job and make sure its done properl;y. Gives me peace of mind,

I think I can achieve a good set up for under 1500.

 

[Vizzy]

Ill see if I can find one in my country.

Tbh Im happy to pay an engineer to oversee the job and make sure its done properl;y. Gives me peace of mind,

I think I can achieve a good set up for under 1500.

If your budget is 1500, you can go to Mexico to get N, I can give you source, my source will not mail but help you get N in person

Flight going and coming back cost less than 600 euro, N two bottles cost 350 dollars and you can have a vacation for 3 days in Mexico lol

It's your call though, if you wanna build the nitrogen setup you can do that

I have no time or else I would have went to Mexico to buy N

 

[ztem]

@GasMonkey
What about buying a drager cylinder and filling it with nitrogen locally?
or a normal DIN 13 cylinder and emptying its contents and filling it with nitrogen(locally again)?
In both cases, no adapter is needed and the setup quality is at its best because the regulator(DIN 13 EU SCBA regulators like drager regs) is directly connected to the cylinder

 

[GasMonkey]

You will need to find somebody with access to a Nitrogen filling machine wanting to fill the Air cylinder with Nitrogen using an adapter (coz the machine will have a Nitrogen connector).

Apparently paintball nerds like to fill their guns with Nitrogen instead of Air to optimize their performance so you could use that excuse.
​

 

[picklemick]

Ahhhh the irony. Not allowed to work anymore because I had a suicide attempt at home. Unlimited access to lethal gas at work, but didn't want to fuck up my coworkers. Now just wishing I could go back

 

[Vizzy]

@GasMonkey
What about buying a drager cylinder and filling it with nitrogen locally?
or a normal DIN 13 cylinder and emptying its contents and filling it with nitrogen(locally again)?
In both cases, no adapter is needed and the setup quality is at its best because the regulator(DIN 13 EU SCBA regulators like drager regs) is directly connected to the cylinder

Filing oxygen cylinder with nitrogen is unsafe and dangerous but you can do it because it is for ctb, it will be more challenging because no gas supplier will do that unless the supplier is your friend because if something goes wrong gas supplier will lose his license and I won't be surprised if they are sued

 

[nihilistics]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

weird question, but does anyone have safety precautions for transporting the pressure cylinder from car to home?

 

[lion4000b]

If your budget is 1500, you can go to Mexico to get N, I can give you source, my source will not mail but help you get N in person

Flight going and coming back cost less than 600 euro, N two bottles cost 350 dollars and you can have a vacation for 3 days in Mexico lol

It's your call though, if you wanna build the nitrogen setup you can do that

I have no time or else I would have went to Mexico to buy N

I actually prefer the exit bag gas method. I can do it at home in my own time and I pass out quickly.

Which do you think is better? If I were to buy the N from your contact I assume I would have to take it in mexico? Or could I mail it somewhere?

Also, I noticed in gas monkeys thread that you mentioned you have the EEBD hood set up. I lost mine in the escm#de raids, so I have to set up again. Are you using a Din477 flow regulator? Is it the escm#de regulator and hood or from another supplier?

p.s.. Are we allowed to say escm#de now that its sadly decommissioned? I got a warning once before.

 

[GasMonkey]

Unlimited access to lethal gas at work

Unless you could steal a Nitrogen cylinder from your work to use it at home, that wouldn't make any difference.

but didn't want to fuck up my coworkers

Good decision, trying to CTB at work (or next to any person that could rescue you) is plain stupid.

Filing oxygen cylinder with nitrogen is unsafe and dangerous

I don't see why, Air and Nitrogen have almost the same weight, in fact that's the real purpose of the adapters, to be able to fill cylinders for one gas with a different gas. The actual real purpose of the air-to-nitrogen adapter is to fill Nitrogen cylinders with Air, but the opposite could also be done too as long as the operator of the filling machine respects the pressure limit of the adapter.​

 

[Vizzy]

weird question, but does anyone have safety precautions for transporting the pressure cylinder from car to home?

He ain't gonna reply, he is long gone