Help Does PN work the same as SN?

[B4mbi]

Hello, I'm new but I've been reading through threads since May. I haven't seen many people discuss potassium, and I was wondering if I could follow the same guide for SN ( anti acids, painkillers etc) but use potassium instead? I was easily able to order some from Amazon and last night I tested a tablespoon amount mixed with a small glass of water but nothing happened. Am I wasting my time with this?

 

[Willto]

Quick search online, seems like injection is the only way? Not familiar with the method myself.

Suicide Attempt by Intravenous Potassium Self-Poisoning: A Case Report

<i>Introduction</i>. Overdose of potassium is not as frequently encountered in clinical practice as hyperkalaemia due to acute or chronic renal disease. However, potassium overdoses leading to serious consequences do occur. <i>Case Presentation</i>. A 20-year-old nurse student presented with a...

www.hindawi.com

Death by potassium chloride intravenous injection: evaluation of analytical detectability - PubMed

Potassium chloride intravenous injection is used in suicide attempts and lethal procedures for state-sanctioned punishment. Owing to its relatively high concentrations in hemolyzed blood (25-80 mM) compared to serum (about 4 mM), it is difficult to conclude potassium poisoning by postmortem...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[almaranthine]

Hm, I used to sell supplements and I always advised people specifically buying potassium alone and looking to take more than the recommended dose to discuss it with their doctors. Taking too much potassium can mess with your heart rhythm. In some people it can induce a heart attack. Not sure about potassium nitrite/nitrate though. There definitely isn't as much info out there as there is on SN. Also, it seems hard to come by the nitrite just by looking online.

 

[GrizzlyGrapefruit]

Are you sure you got potassium NITRITE and not potassium NITRATE? The difference between the two is an oxygen atom (Nitrite being NO2 and nitrate being NO3).

The difference is extremely important as nitrate will not bind to oxygen nearly as strongly as nitrite does, which is the method of action for SN. Since you didn't feel anything, I'm pretty sure that you got nitrate.

 

[actual_fox]

Potassium is much not the same as sodium.

 

[well2hell]

Did you purchase potassium nitrite, nitrate or chloride?

Potassium nitrite works as well as sodium nitrite because it is the nitrite that causes methemoglobinemia. Nitrate (whether in sodium or potassium form) has the same effect but lethal doses are 10 to 20 fold greater than nitrite, per the CDC (§3.2.2.1, p. 6 of the PDF):

Ingestion of nitrite (from potassium nitrite or sodium nitrite sources) has been associated with severe methemoglobinemia in adults and children (Aquanno et al. 1981; CDC 1997, 2002; Gautami et al. 1995; Gowans 1990; Greenberg et al. 1945; Kaplan et al. 1990; Ringling et al. 2003; Sevier and Berbatis 1976; Ten Brink et al. 1982; Walley and Flanagan 1987).

RTECS (2014) lists oral LD50 values for sodium nitrate of 1,267, 3,500, and 2,680 mg/kg for the rat, mouse, and rabbit, respectively; LD50 values for sodium nitrite of 157.9, 175, and 186 mg/kg for the rat, mouse, and rabbit, respectively; LD50 values for potassium nitrate of 3,540 and 3,750 for the rat and 1,901 mg/kg for the rabbit; and an LD50 for potassium nitrite of 200 mg/kg.

In its review on the usage of potassium and sodium nitrite as food additives, the European Food Safety Agency concluded:

In summary, the reported effects of acute toxicity of sodium and potassium nitrite included relaxation of smooth muscle, vasodilation and consequently lowering of blood pressure, and methaemoglobinaemia. The oral LD50 in experimental animals is in the range 100–220 mg/kg bw (Walker, 1990; SCF, 1997; OECD, 2005; WHO, 2007). In humans, oral lethal nitrite doses have been reported to be in the same order of magnitude as in animals, however in a wider range, likely due to wide variabilities in individual sensitivity (Health Canada, 2013).

The Wikipedia page on potassium nitrite lists an unsourced oral LD50 value of 235 mg/kg, in line with the values reported by the CDC and the EFSA. In comparison, the ones listed for potassium nitrate are 1901 mg/kg (rabbit)
and 3750 mg/kg (rat) as per the CDC.

Note that potassium also has toxic effects on the heart and is used in the form of potassium chloride for lethal injections (death row inmates in the US). However, the oral lethal dose is much higher than the intravenous one:

The LD50​ of orally ingested potassium chloride is approximately 2.5 g/kg, or 190 grams (6.7 oz) for a body mass of 75 kilograms (165 lb). (…)

Intravenously, the LD50​ of potassium chloride is far smaller, at about 57.2 mg/kg to 66.7 mg/kg (…).

If you bought potassium chloride (KCl) and took a tablespoon of it, it makes sense that it was not lethal.

If you bought potassium nitrate, a tablespoon may not have been lethal either.

If you bought potassium nitrite, make sure you bought the pure product and not a preparation for curing meat, which only contains less than 1% potassium nitrite (the rest being regular salt).

 

[B4mbi]

Quick search online, seems like injection is the only way? Not familiar with the method myself.

Suicide Attempt by Intravenous Potassium Self-Poisoning: A Case Report

<i>Introduction</i>. Overdose of potassium is not as frequently encountered in clinical practice as hyperkalaemia due to acute or chronic renal disease. However, potassium overdoses leading to serious consequences do occur. <i>Case Presentation</i>. A 20-year-old nurse student presented with a...

www.hindawi.com

Death by potassium chloride intravenous injection: evaluation of analytical detectability - PubMed

Potassium chloride intravenous injection is used in suicide attempts and lethal procedures for state-sanctioned punishment. Owing to its relatively high concentrations in hemolyzed blood (25-80 mM) compared to serum (about 4 mM), it is difficult to conclude potassium poisoning by postmortem...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank you for the links! I'll look into that, just not sure how to use a syringe properly that sounds a bit scary

Did you purchase potassium nitrite, nitrate or chloride?

Potassium nitrite works as well as sodium nitrite because it is the nitrite that causes methemoglobinemia. Nitrate (whether in sodium or potassium form) has the same effect but lethal doses are 10 to 20 fold greater than nitrite, per the CDC (§3.2.2.1, p. 6 of the PDF):



In its review on the usage of potassium and sodium nitrite as food additives, the European Food Safety Agency concluded:


The Wikipedia page on potassium nitrite lists an unsourced oral LD50 value of 235 mg/kg, in line with the values reported by the CDC and the EFSA. In comparison, the ones listed for potassium nitrate are 1901 mg/kg (rabbit)
and 3750 mg/kg (rat) as per the CDC.

Note that potassium also has toxic effects on the heart and is used in the form of potassium chloride for lethal injections (death row inmates in the US). However, the oral lethal dose is much higher than the intravenous one:


If you bought potassium chloride (KCl) and took a tablespoon of it, it makes sense that it was not lethal.

If you bought potassium nitrate, a tablespoon may not have been lethal either.

If you bought potassium nitrite, make sure you bought the pure product and not a preparation for curing meat, which only contains less than 1% potassium nitrite (the rest being regular salt).

Thank you so much for the detailed message! That answers a lot of my questions