Help CO2 bag via baking soda & vinegar? In a bag… would this be quick and painless-ish?

[wuaroi]

Hello , I apologize for making so many help posts but I am desperately trying to find a method and I am on a deadline … but I might of found a better method comparatively to H2S (hydrogen sulfide).

So my plan is to make a bag full of as much carbon dioxide as I can with as little oxygen possible. to do this I want to mix a whole box of baking soda and a lot of white vinegar together in a bottle with a hole in the cap connecting to a trash bag via a straw or some sort that can be detachable.

(Mind you I will be squeezing any air out of the bag and sealing the main opening shut allowing the only thing in the bag is the CO2 it makes.)

Once the reaction is done i will remove the bottle and close the small hole probably with duck tape or something idk. Then while still holding the main opening of the bag closed I will remove the string keeping it closed, take a deep breath, swiftly put my head in and close it with the draw strings. Then (while still holding my breath) i will quickly put a belt around the bag and my neck to keep in extra secure and after all of this is done, I will inhale as much air as I possibly can and hopefully pass out? Hopefully I will pass out in 10seconds< of taking very deep breaths and in turn die after fainting but I have a few questions.

Questions-
I would love to look these up on google but Im having much luck on the web so im here to see if you guys know.

1.) quantity.
Will a box of baking soda and how ever much vinegar it needs to be fully saturated enough? If not how much soda will I need to fill the bag with enough to pass out very quickly?

2.) pain.
After doing so many ridiculously painful methods to no avail, I am desperately looking for one that is realitivly painless but is extremely fast like less than a minute (to pass out at least ). How painful and quick will this generally be and what should I expect the feeling to be like?

3.) likely hood.
Is this actually going to make me pass out quickly and will I die? I understand that some people take the bag off when they're unconscious but other than that would this work if we ignore that possibility? Because I think I know how I can avoid that from being an issue.


4.) time until death (where resesitation is unlikely to impossible.
Lastly I want to know how long after passing out it will take me to actually die and at a point where I wont have to worry about paramedics saving me or like cpr. Although I understand that theres no exsact way to know, are we looking at like 5-10mins, 30-40mins or like 50< mins?

Thank you so much for reading this and if you know the answers to my questions please answer I really need help.
Also if there's anything wrong with this or something that I can improve with the same materials please lmk I only have 2weeks until I absolutely need to cbt I am so desperate to find the answers to my questions.

extra background about the H2S situation [skip able]
I mentioned it earlier in this post and ive made two other posts about this similar method but with FeS and HCl but I decided that I needed to find a better way because if I did manage to live or if something goes wrong etc etc, I dont want to A, leave a huge very noticeable bio hazard behind and B, I dont want to come back home smelling potentially of rotten eggs because that would be very bad. So in turn I thought about this method as CO2 isnt as dangerous and it also does reak of a horrible stench that sticks to you and your clothes.

Thank you for reading all of this have a great day and again, if you have any answers please lmk.

 

[maniac116]

C02 is exactly what sets off oxygen deprivation, kicking in gear your SI, then the body starts desperately trying to get oxygen by violently gasping for oxygen.
I'm not trying to throw a negative spin on it.
Just want you to be aware. Lack of oxygen doesn't start that response, the buildup of carbon dioxide does.
I hope peace & love are able to find you!

 

[wuaroi]

C02 is exactly what sets off oxygen deprivation, kicking in gear your SI, then the body starts desperately trying to get oxygen by violently gasping for oxygen.
I'm not trying to throw a negative spin on it.
Just want you to be aware. Lack of oxygen doesn't start that response, the buildup of carbon dioxide does.
I hope peace & love are able to find you!

But do you know how quickly youd pass out? If its only like 10 seconds it probably wouldnt be too bad

 

[maniac116]

No I don't know, sorry

 

[CantDoIt]

From my understanding the time to pass out depends on quantity of co2

 

[Intoxicated]

but I might of found a better method comparatively to H2S (hydrogen sulfide).

I think, this method is likely to be substantially worse than H2S poisoning in terms of discomfort/distress and reliability.

https://i.sanctioned-suicide.net/images/2024/12/215296_conlee-et-al-2005-carbon-dioxide-for-euthanasia.pdf

 

[wuaroi]

I think, this method is likely to be substantially worse than H2S poisoning in terms of discomfort/distress and reliability.

https://i.sanctioned-suicide.net/images/2024/12/215296_conlee-et-al-2005-carbon-dioxide-for-euthanasia.pdf

That is true when CO2 is either gradually increased from base level but when suddenly inhaling carbon dioxide levels of 90% ppm < it overwhelms your system and although it might be uncomfortable fainting can be expected in a matter of seconds to a minute if done correctly.
I did way more research on how to do it properly with the exact amount of ingredients needed to make it a fast and generally tolerable method. I may make a final post on it as an instruction before i do it myself.

 

[Intoxicated]

Danneman's subjects used the following terms in reference to every concentration of CO2 tested: burning, tingling or prickling, and unpleasant (taste or odour); these terms were used more frequently at higher concentrations. Many described 100% CO2 as piercing, stabbing, painful or causing the eyes to burn or water, and 18 out of 20 subjects indicated that they were unable to take a full breath of this concentration.

Although I think that CO2 poisoning is quite endurable, it doesn't look like an unconditionally superior alternative to H2S. It's a tradeoff between comfort and produced contaminations at the death scene.

Also, vinegar doesn't look like a wise choice, since acetic acid is a volatile irritant. Citric acid should be a better reagent.

 

[midnight.moon]

I have tried this.
With a ziplock bag instead of a water bottle. A 1L water bottle won't hold much.

Same method with Ziplock bag

1. I used 2 tbsp of each, idk much about chemistry. It wasn't enough in my particular scenario.

2. Theoretically it should be painless and quick. I'll be real the smell is terribly nauseating and burns and it takes multiple practices to even get ur head inside .

I didn't have enough concentration so I ended up ALMOST Blacking out cuz I waited for around 5-7 seconds, of growing pain, then I started losing consciousness. But I took the bag off. If I had had higher conc, it would hv worked .

3. Extremely likely

 

[wuaroi]

That is true when CO2 is either gradually increased from base level but when suddenly inhaling carbon dioxide levels of 90% ppm < it overwhelms your system and although it might be uncomfortable fainting can be expected in a matter of seconds to a minute if done correctly.
I did way more research on how to do it properly with the exact amount of ingredients needed to make it a fast and generally tolerable method. I may make a final post on it as an instruction before i do it

I have tried this.
With a ziplock bag instead of a water bottle. A 1L water bottle won't hold much.

Same method with Ziplock bag

1. I used 2 tbsp of each, idk much about chemistry. It wasn't enough in my particular scenario.

2. Theoretically it should be painless and quick. I'll be real the smell is terribly nauseating and burns and it takes multiple practices to even get ur head inside .

I didn't have enough concentration so I ended up ALMOST Blacking out cuz I waited for around 5-7 seconds, of growing pain, then I started losing consciousness. But I took the bag off. If I had had higher conc, it would hv worked .

3. Extremely likely

Its nice to hear the information from experience rather than just google , can I ask you a few questions about your experience though?

1 is it the kind of burning that could be manageable if you plug your nose and take deep breaths in through your mouth?

2 do you think you woulve been able to keep the bag on if you wanted to cbt or was it way to painful.

3 and idk if you remember, but when you did it in the bag over your head how much of each did you use ? Or did you only use 2 tablespoons of each?

Sorry for all the questions Im just trying to figure out as much info before I do it myself.

My current plan that should work at a chemistry stand point is mixing a 1:1 ratio of vinegar to baking soda with 25 table spoons of both inside of a 15liter trash bag since that should make 11 extra liters of gas to compensate the potential loss of gas when you put the bag on. So theoretically I would have a bag with roughly 90ppm< (so like 90%-98% pure CO2.

Although I think that CO2 poisoning is quite endurable, it doesn't look like an unconditionally superior alternative to H2S. It's a tradeoff between comfort and produced contaminations at the death scene.

Also, vinegar doesn't look like a wise choice, since acetic acid is a volatile irritant. Citric acid should be a better reagent.

Yea I would like to use other things but all I have access to that would work is white vinegar hopefully I could manage 10seconds of it /:

Also since I live with other people I couldnt come home smelling strongly of H2S if something does fail … so hopefully I could handle it.

 

[Intoxicated]

Yea I would like to use other things but all I have access to that would work is white vinegar

Citric acid is cheap and widely available on the market. I can buy 1 kg of it for less than $2.5, and I guess it shouldn't be hard to obtain in general, unless you have no money. If you want some different useful household supply, you can take a look at sulfamic acid. It's a white powder used for removing rust and limescale.

Sulfamic acid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1 kg of this acid costs nearly $4 at the location where I live. Reaction with baking soda goes according to this equation

NaHCO3 + H2NSO3H = H2NSO3Na + H2O + CO2

 

[Battered_Seoul]

Hello , I apologize for making so many help posts but I am desperately trying to find a method and I am on a deadline … but I might of found a better method comparatively to H2S (hydrogen sulfide).

So my plan is to make a bag full of as much carbon dioxide as I can with as little oxygen possible. to do this I want to mix a whole box of baking soda and a lot of white vinegar together in a bottle with a hole in the cap connecting to a trash bag via a straw or some sort that can be detachable.

(Mind you I will be squeezing any air out of the bag and sealing the main opening shut allowing the only thing in the bag is the CO2 it makes.)

Once the reaction is done i will remove the bottle and close the small hole probably with duck tape or something idk. Then while still holding the main opening of the bag closed I will remove the string keeping it closed, take a deep breath, swiftly put my head in and close it with the draw strings. Then (while still holding my breath) i will quickly put a belt around the bag and my neck to keep in extra secure and after all of this is done, I will inhale as much air as I possibly can and hopefully pass out? Hopefully I will pass out in 10seconds< of taking very deep breaths and in turn die after fainting but I have a few questions.

Questions-
I would love to look these up on google but Im having much luck on the web so im here to see if you guys know.

1.) quantity.
Will a box of baking soda and how ever much vinegar it needs to be fully saturated enough? If not how much soda will I need to fill the bag with enough to pass out very quickly?

2.) pain.
After doing so many ridiculously painful methods to no avail, I am desperately looking for one that is realitivly painless but is extremely fast like less than a minute (to pass out at least ). How painful and quick will this generally be and what should I expect the feeling to be like?

3.) likely hood.
Is this actually going to make me pass out quickly and will I die? I understand that some people take the bag off when they're unconscious but other than that would this work if we ignore that possibility? Because I think I know how I can avoid that from being an issue.


4.) time until death (where resesitation is unlikely to impossible.
Lastly I want to know how long after passing out it will take me to actually die and at a point where I wont have to worry about paramedics saving me or like cpr. Although I understand that theres no exsact way to know, are we looking at like 5-10mins, 30-40mins or like 50< mins?

Thank you so much for reading this and if you know the answers to my questions please answer I really need help.
Also if there's anything wrong with this or something that I can improve with the same materials please lmk I only have 2weeks until I absolutely need to cbt I am so desperate to find the answers to my questions.

extra background about the H2S situation [skip able]
I mentioned it earlier in this post and ive made two other posts about this similar method but with FeS and HCl but I decided that I needed to find a better way because if I did manage to live or if something goes wrong etc etc, I dont want to A, leave a huge very noticeable bio hazard behind and B, I dont want to come back home smelling potentially of rotten eggs because that would be very bad. So in turn I thought about this method as CO2 isnt as dangerous and it also does reak of a horrible stench that sticks to you and your clothes.

Thank you for reading all of this have a great day and again, if you have any answers please lmk.

Bump.

Curious if the OP was still around.

 

[noidea1984]

But do you know how quickly youd pass out? If its only like 10 seconds it probably wouldnt be too bad

You would probably need a ridiculously high concentration in order to pass out within seconds, so chances are you wouldn't get far

 

[wham311]

That is true when CO2 is either gradually increased from base level but when suddenly inhaling carbon dioxide levels of 90% ppm < it overwhelms your system and although it might be uncomfortable fainting can be expected in a matter of seconds to a minute if done correctly.
I did way more research on how to do it properly with the exact amount of ingredients needed to make it a fast and generally tolerable method. I may make a final post on it as an instruction before i do it myself.

Can you please post the method

 

[locked*n*loaded]

If one could afford it, it would be easier, and probably more effective, to just purchase a tank of CO2. I doubt it's very pleasant or peaceful, even if unconsciousness comes relatively quickly.

 

[UltimateTrip]

I think, this method is likely to be substantially worse than H2S poisoning in terms of discomfort/distress and reliability.

https://i.sanctioned-suicide.net/images/2024/12/215296_conlee-et-al-2005-carbon-dioxide-for-euthanasia.pdf

From the article, page 36:

"Hornett and Haynes (1984) compared CO2 and nitrogen in rats and concluded that CO2 was the preferred euthanasia method. CO2 from a gas cylinder was gradually induced and behaviours measured included perceived signs of fear (behaviours were not specified) and oxygen deprivation, as well as laboured breathing, loss of co-ordination and balance, collapse (correlated with unconsciousness) and respiratory arrest. Overall, the rats had an extreme response to nitrogen including panic, attempts to escape and convulsions, while CO2 caused increased 'nasal movement' and a stage of laboured breathing. The authors concluded that CO2 at 19.5% chamber volume per minute achieved a quiet delivery into unconsciousness".

Effects on rats and humans will differ. For example, while for humans nitrogen is among the best euthanasia methods it seems like it's not the case for rats. The article is interesting but I don't think that it can provide a fair opinion about effectiveness and peacefulness of CO2 for humans. Other sources state that for humans a 30%+ concentration of CO2 will cause loss of consciousness in seconds.

Also, the authors of the article state that the pieces of research that the article is based on provide conflicting results.

Also, vinegar doesn't look like a wise choice, since acetic acid is a volatile irritant. Citric acid should be a better reagent.

Citric acid is definitely better than vinegar.

 

[Intoxicated]

From the article, page 36:

"Hornett and Haynes (1984) compared CO2 and nitrogen in rats and concluded that CO2 was the preferred euthanasia method. CO2 from a gas cylinder was gradually induced and behaviours measured included perceived signs of fear (behaviours were not specified) and oxygen deprivation, as well as laboured breathing, loss of co-ordination and balance, collapse (correlated with unconsciousness) and respiratory arrest. Overall, the rats had an extreme response to nitrogen including panic, attempts to escape and convulsions, while CO2 caused increased 'nasal movement' and a stage of laboured breathing. The authors concluded that CO2 at 19.5% chamber volume per minute achieved a quiet delivery into unconsciousness".

Effects on rats and humans will differ.

When referencing that document, I had this part of it in mind:

You need -1 more posts to view this content

 

[UltimateTrip]

The test subjects were asked to take a single breath. Some people here who tested CO2 on themselves said that the initial sensations were unpleasant and even painful. But they didn't last long. With a high enough concentration that could last only for a few moments before LOC.

Of course, an inert gas would be a better choice and I would go for it if I could afford it. But CO2 option is very accessible, if done correctly the discomfort is very short-lasting. The only real problem I see with it is that if for whatever reason the attempt fails after some damage has been done (to lungs and other organs) that would suck. But that is true for every other method too.

 

[Intoxicated]

Of course, an inert gas would be a better choice and I would go for it if I could afford it.

If you delve deeply into the subject of simple asphyxiants, you can notice much cheaper solutions than the ones commonly promoted on this forum. Basically, all you need to successfully CTB with a simple asphyxiant without having significant discomfort is to:

1) choose a gas that is not especially unpleasant to inhale (f.e., propane, butane, R134a, N₂O),
2) ensure that the concentration of O₂ in the breathed mixture is below 6%,
3) ensure that the CO₂ level in the bloodstream does not reach critical levels before LOC (easily done via hyperventilation and making low O₂ concentration in the inhaled mixture).

As long as you don't allow adding more than 25 - 28% air to your non-irritating and nearly oxygen-free asphyxiant gas, you're good. Constant flow of the gas can be handy for this, but it's unnecessary. People died with completely sealed bags on their heads as well.

https://erowid.org/chemicals/nitrous/references/media/2000_apb_1.shtml

I'm inclined to use N₂O (from cream chargers), because it is relatively cheap and easily accessible in my country, has no unpleasant odor, can be used to relax and get high, has an additional sedative effect and the proven ability to mitigate the symptoms of dispnea from high CO₂ levels.

But CO2 option is very accessible

Yes, that's a big advantage.

if done correctly the discomfort is very short-lasting.

It's also more easy to do correctly than my favourite N₂O asphyxiation method, because you're allowed to add up to 70% air to CO₂ without serious troubles with effectiveness of the attempt. Asphyxiation with simple asphyxiants is not so forgiving with regard to adding extra air to them.

 

[UltimateTrip]

If you delve deeply into the subject of simple asphyxiants, you can notice much cheaper solutions than the ones commonly promoted on this forum. Basically, all you need to successfully CTB with a simple asphyxiant without having significant discomfort is to:

You're right, I haven't researched all the possible asphyxiants and might want to dive deeper into the topic.

As long as you don't allow adding more than 25 - 28% air to your non-irritating and nearly oxygen-free asphyxiant gas, you're good. Constant flow of the gas can be handy for this, but it's unnecessary. People died with completely sealed bags on their heads as well.

I wasn't even considering constant flow setups due costs and volumes of gas needed. If I go this route it will be a sealed bag method.

I'm inclined to use N₂O (from cream chargers), because it is relatively cheap and easily accessible in my country, has no unpleasant odor, can be used to relax and get high, has an additional sedative effect and the proven ability to mitigate the symptoms of dispnea from high CO₂ levels.

They are accessible in my country too. But I don't have a water siphon or a cream machine and they are out of my budget. I wanted to buy a pack of chargers just to test the effects of the gas but I don't know how I would inflate a bag or a balloon only using the household items that I already have at my disposal. If you know a method or a trick to do that, please let me know.

It's also more easy to do correctly than my favourite N₂O asphyxiation method, because you're allowed to add up to 70% air to CO₂ without serious troubles with effectiveness of the attempt. Asphyxiation with simple asphyxiants is not so forgiving with regard to adding extra air to them.

True... Do you think it would be possible to take 1-2 full deep breaths of N2O and while still conscious seal a bag over the head, hopefully pass out and die from CO2 that will gradually accumulate in the bag? That's what I wanted to try if I knew how to use a charger without a specialized device.

P.S. Thank you for your time and replies!

 

[Intoxicated]

But I don't have a water siphon or a cream machine and they are out of my budget.

Cheapest dispensers/siphons should cost approximately $20 - $30. There are also small crackers for $10 - $13 like these - Cream Bottle Opener

View attachment NOS cracker.mp4

They may work for CO₂ soda chargers as well, because those have the same shape and size as N₂O cream chargers.

I wanted to buy a pack of chargers just to test the effects of the gas but I don't know how I would inflate a bag or a balloon only using the household items that I already have at my disposal. If you know a method or a trick to do that, please let me know.

It's possible to break the seal of a charger with a nail, but this method seems risky, and you'd lose a lot of gas when using it.

View attachment Cracking N2O charger.mp4

Do you think it would be possible to take 1-2 full deep breaths of N2O and while still conscious seal a bag over the head, hopefully pass out and die from CO2 that will gradually accumulate in the bag?

If the bag is not filled with N₂O before you place it over the head, then that doesn't look like a good strategy, because it would likely contain some amount of air that could suffice to make you regain consciousness. If the budget is very limited, it would make sense to consider something like air dusters containing propane-butane mixtures. There are very cheap cans, and they typically contain enough gas to do a few blackout tests and fill a large bag for CTB.

 

[UltimateTrip]

Thank you for the links and advice!

Cheapest dispensers/siphons should cost approximately $20 - $30. There are also small crackers for $10 - $13 like these - Cream Bottle Opener

That cream bottle opener is a nice device, thanks! All I have is $100 or so. That has to support me for until I can get a social payment, in 3 or 4 weeks, lol. Or I CTB before that.

It's possible to break the seal of a charger with a nail, but this method seems risky, and you'd lose a lot of gas when using it.

Yeah, that is definitely not a good method.

If the bag is not filled with N₂O before you place it over the head, then that doesn't look like a good strategy, because it would likely contain some amount of air that could suffice to make you regain consciousness. If the budget is very limited, it would make sense to consider something like air dusters containing propane-butane mixtures. There are very cheap cans, and they typically contain enough gas to do a few blackout tests and fill a large bag for CTB.

One could regain consciousness but that would not be the most terrible failed attempt. I need to learn more about propane, butane and other possible variants. Luckily I have SN already. I was just looking for a method that would lead to a faster LOC, like 3 or 4 seconds instead of 30 minutes, give or take.

Anyway, thank you for the information and advice, my friend!