Discussion Can a suicide fuelled, caused or simply justified by mental illness still be regarded as rational?

[weedoge]

It's the one place I find opinions get pretty varied and grey. Most people with a brain realise that if somebody is terminally ill, in chronic pain, simply getting old or suffering from some other physical ailment then suicide or euthanasia can be rational.

Watching the yale university videos on suicide and especially the part about suicide on a positive-negative life curve got me thinking a lot. By this logic, no matter the kind of suffering, certain circumstances can justify a suicide as being negative. It's all about making the decision under uncertainty because there's no way to see the future.

For me, I feel I am able to at least see my own future because I understand how I make decisions and my own behaviour, I know where I would end up and what I would do when faced with certain situations. I have a strong feeling that I know how I'll feel as I go on etc etc.

Does mental illness/depression/etc automatically cause one to be unable to make the decision and thought needed to go into a rational suicide? where do we draw the line? Should all people be able to make the decision to take their own lives regardless of mental capacity? Should delusions and a separation from reality be the only reason a person should not be able to take their own life? If a person is going to suffer from these delusions and separation for their whole life, should they not be able to go through with the act?

Please discuss, I'm very curious because personally I believe a lot of the reasons I ended up where I am and made the mistakes I did was because of a defect in my brain. Thanks.

 

[Smilla]

I love the Yale lectures and have drawn his curve many times and plan to include it in my suicide note.

Yes, I think psychic suffering (however you want to define it: depression, isolation, shitty life circumstances) can be the basis for a completely rational decision, so long as the suffering has been over an extended period of time and not simply a reaction to a specific life event (say losing your job or romantic partner) which may be overcome.

I'm middle aged and have experienced a lifetime of woes, and have decided, quite rationally, that my suffering will only get worse from here.

Some of the posters here are quite young but have suffered for years, and they too can make this decision rationally. Anyone younger than 25, however should be discouraged but I still respect their right to die.

 

[billymayonnaise]

Suicide is something you can only decide for yourself. The problem with "a defect in your brain makes you unable to decide" is that your brain is yours only and nobody else can look inside it and decide if there's enough suffering that suicide is worth doing. That's my two cents, anyway.

 

[RoloTomasi]

Yes I believe so, if mental illness impairs your functioning and state of mind severely. I've heard of people taking their lives for more pettier reasons, relatively speaking. So, I'd deem doing it because of a very debilitating mental illness, and not improving despite your best efforts, to qualify for rational suicide.



This is probably an example, not sure if you can strongly relate though.

 

[skitliv]

Suicide is something you can only decide for yourself. The problem with "a defect in your brain makes you unable to decide" is that your brain is yours only and nobody else can look inside it and decide if there's enough suffering that suicide is worth doing. That's my two cents, anyway.

"Ha Ha, what a story Mark"
But seriously I agree

 

[Final Escape]

I would say yes to this. However what I've found more with truly mentally ill people is that they are not aware that they are mentally ill and have almost a total lack of insight into their behaviors.

 

[nopoint]

I would say yes too. I think everyone should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to live or die. However, that's not the case right now if all civilized society. This angers and frustrates me because people who are suffering mentally are often brushed aside and have to resort to undignified methods of dying in order to be freed of their pain. My hope is for euthanasia systems to be put in place that will allow people with mental illness to end their lives in a way that's dignified and without secrecy.

 

[ScaredOfLife]

Yes I believe so, if mental illness impairs your functioning and state of mind severely. I've heard of people taking their lives for more pettier reasons, relatively speaking. So, I'd deem doing it because of a very debilitating mental illness, and not improving despite your best efforts, to qualify for rational suicide.



This is probably an example, not sure if you can strongly relate though.

It was either last year or earlier this year that I read a news article about a woman with PTSD who got euthanized because treatments weren't working for her. I forget which country this happened in. I wish I could opt for euthanasia because of my mental illness. Instead, I have to die an undignified death by my own hand. I've been on medications and in therapy since 2001and I'm not getting better.

 

[Aponia & Ataraxia]

Speaking for the most liberal interpretation of the right-to-die as a matter of human/civil rights, it can be as simple as the right to design the when/where/how of one's own ending, since death is already a given. The fact alone that one does not choose the circumstances, era, nor even species of birth, is enough to warrant automatic rights to a seamless death. This would leave it open for anyone, anytime, anywhere. Certainly would include those with any sort of mental suffering. Perhaps such a society would at that point be capable of allowing individuals the right to free-association and freedom from coercion.

 

[MAIO]

It's the one place I find opinions get pretty varied and grey. Most people with a brain realise that if somebody is terminally ill, in chronic pain, simply getting old or suffering from some other physical ailment then suicide or euthanasia can be rational.

Watching the yale university videos on suicide and especially the part about suicide on a positive-negative life curve got me thinking a lot. By this logic, no matter the kind of suffering, certain circumstances can justify a suicide as being negative. It's all about making the decision under uncertainty because there's no way to see the future.

For me, I feel I am able to at least see my own future because I understand how I make decisions and my own behaviour, I know where I would end up and what I would do when faced with certain situations. I have a strong feeling that I know how I'll feel as I go on etc etc.

Does mental illness/depression/etc automatically cause one to be unable to make the decision and thought needed to go into a rational suicide? where do we draw the line? Should all people be able to make the decision to take their own lives regardless of mental capacity? Should delusions and a separation from reality be the only reason a person should not be able to take their own life? If a person is going to suffer from these delusions and separation for their whole life, should they not be able to go through with the act?

Please discuss, I'm very curious because personally I believe a lot of the reasons I ended up where I am and made the mistakes I did was because of a defect in my brain. Thanks.

Humans are irrational emotional creatures. The notion that psycriaty espically in the past can try to imply any religious believe even aliens reading thoughts is reasonable becuase many people believe in it but suicide is irrational becuase if they make extordionary assumptions its irrational is absurd to the point of laughter.When people say suicide is irrational they are usually defining irrational in such a way that evrey major life descion we make would be irrational. No one has ever proven if life is worth living for anyone. When people try to argue against suicide they typically make extordionary claims/assertions they do not even attempt to prove. Ie Life is always worth living I don't have to prove why, there is purpose a meaning etc. If you follow logic a certain way it will lead you to suicide. It's no more rational or irrational than almost evreything else humans do.

 

[ge0rge]

no. no, it cannot. at least from my perspective. not unless you can divorce yourself from your illness, or put it on hold, or through endlessly excoriating introspection. and even then, it is objectively impossible to separate yourself fundamentally from your disorder.

but reason or rationality or sensibility rarely factor into anything that has to do with human life, so why should that be relevant? it is within anyone's ability to govern one's life to choose to destroy themselves, and that must be respected.

 

[ScaredOfLife]

I found the article I mentioned above, about a woman with PTSD who was euthanized:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...o-euthanasia-due-to-severe-ptsd-a7023666.html

Here's another article about a man who suffered from alcoholism, depression and anxiety and was euthanized:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html