News Callie Lewis

[Cheshirecatx]

Well, that's what everyone here seems to want to believe. However, the documentary DOES focus on and specifically details the many failures by the mental health services. It even is in the title of the documentary. SS is only a small part of the picture. The primary blame is placed where it belongs: The shortcomings of the mental health system.

I understand your perspective, but realistically the information they gathered identified the failings of the system, and yes primarily blamed the services. But also, really targeted this community negatively, and didn't really identify as many issues within the mental health team as they did the forum. I understand why they did, but my own personal view is I know of many other deaths from the mental health services that could've been mentioned into a case study into failings, and whilst I understand it's Callies story. It hasn't really identified the improvements or CQCs input into the issues.
As I've said, this is my own personal view. I understand you may disagree with that, but that's how I saw it.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks for the announcement @Marquis and also for continuing to fight against the pro-life, anti-choice bullshit agenda that the news and people in power in society is pushing. Also agree with you that it is the responsibility and job of the news reporters to report 'fairly and objectively' and not censor nor twist information in such a way that only serves some agenda or makes money.

Interesting. I thought they learned their lesson when they tried to push their agenda with the exit of Shatto Shawn exactly one year ago. It's funny how they never listen to the last words of these leaving people, and instead create their own pro-life narrative, completely ignoring what the people themselves had to say about their reasons to leave it all behind. Maybe they should look into these reasons and question how much society contributed to those struggles, instead of trying to blame a website like this, which acts as an outlet and a support net for many suicidal people all around the world. Both members clearly made up their mind, before they came to this website, and they both were adults - they made a decision in their life and we should respect that. You can clearly read in the goodbye thread of both Shawn and Callie that they had made up their mind based on very valid and relatable struggles and the media seems to ignore that. You can't just dismiss that and pretend that this website is the reason for their departure. It's not. I think the media as well as the family members are doing a disservice to those passed people, using them them for such a political campaign. I am very sure they never intended to be a part of such an agenda, yet their own autonomy and dignity is violated after their death with those pro-life campaigns. That's what's really sad about this. That's not just a smear on us, it's also a smear on those passed people.

Superb and excellent post! You really summed up a lot of great points.

Being Autistic and then being ignored and forgotten about, just worsens somebody's emotions in that state. She would've figured out a way to ctb without SS anyway, it's not realistically hard to google methods anyways and just type in the correct terminology.

I agree and as someone who has general anxiety (which isn't improving and at times getting worse) as well as Aspergers syndrome, I can feel the effects of not being understood, accepted, acknowledged by society and people around me. While Aspergers and general anxiety are not the only reasons for my wanting to CTB, they are certainly factors that contribute to it. Also, Aspergers is something that I will have to live with for the rest of my life as there is no cure, just mitigation and copes.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

The video is on Dailymotion for all people outside of the UK.

 

[Empty Smile]

Imho, and with all due respect, this thread is a huge mistake.
I do not think it was necessary to doing or acting like speaker. Sounds to me like a justification. And I do not see reason why, this site has to answer on a public way.

Suicide is a personal choice.

Sorry to disagree that this thread is a mistake. I'm reading your post as your way of saying that we "should be seen, but not heard."

That's the biggest problem in society today. We are seen, but no one cares. We we speak up, but no one hears. We cry out for help, but we get shrugged off.

We are the dregs of society, swept under the rug. We are expected to remain alive, no matter how miserable life is.

@Marquis Thank you for this thread, and all that you do to protect what rights we have(or should have). I know it's hell on wheels for you keeping this site going, and dealing with journalists and flat out lies being told. I don't know about everyone else on this site, but I stand beside you 100%.

 

[Egddios]

@Marquis If there is anything I can do research and/or writing-wise to help protect this forum, please let me know.

Thank you, and thank all of the staff, truly.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

What I find very telling is how her friends Jan says at one point in the interview: "She either had to live or die, so it was easy: she had to live."

She had to live! See... What do you think, how does that feel to a person who sees themselves as an autonomous, free person?

Also they say Callie felt betrayed by her friend. Are they implying that she falsely felt betrayed? Of course she felt betrayed! She disclosed an immensely burdensome inner struggle to her best friend who then proceeded to call the authorities on her so she can be institutionalized. Smh

-----------

The father: "The truth is not something which hurts."

Well, let's hope he can keep his delusions going strong!!

----------------

Wow. They are so oblivious. They don't give a fuck about her, all they are able to see is their own pain; it is their own pain in losing her that matters, and that's why her suicide has to be prevented. "There's always a solution." Oh okay... Like locking people up and sedating them, taking their freedom from them just so that some dipshit oblivious egotistical parents won't have to finally see through their own denial? Just so that they don't have feel bad, feel a fraction of the suffering that their daughter went through?

She must suffer so they can continue living in their rose coloured world.

---------------

So, what was the "harmful content" they kept talking about? All they quoted was someone saying "May you be at peace" and someone telling her how to interact with institutional powers who were trying to forcibly detain her against her will. Wow if that's harmful content... And that's the best they could find?

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

I hate when they call this site a pro-suicide site when it's pro-choice.

 

[calendulo]

Sorry to disagree that this thread is a mistake. I'm reading your post as your way of saying that we "should be seen, but not heard."

That's the biggest problem in society today. We are seen, but no one cares. We we speak up, but no one hears. We cry out for help, but we get shrugged off.

We are the dregs of society, swept under the rug. We are expected to remain alive, no matter how miserable life is.

@Marquis Thank you for this thread, and all that you do to protect what rights we have(or should have). I know it's hell on wheels for you keeping this site going, and dealing with journalists and flat out lies being told. I don't know about everyone else on this site, but I stand beside you 100%.

No sorry. Everyone has an opinion. Appreciate.
I am agree about what you say that we are, for sure; but I am not a hero, I am a regular guy, from a regular country. I am here on a ramdom way and sooner or later I will not to be here. A voyeur.....a spectator, maybe. I am not a judge. Everybody is free to do what he or she or they wishes/wish to do.

Don't get me wrong,( i have doubts in this phrase, sorry) please; but if I have posted that comment is because forum lets me do it, and although I am not saying thank you for this thread. I support @Marquis and all Staff's members as I already said. All of them are doing a very good job.
Do not worry about, I will be another brick in the wall...as song says..

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

You can't just dismiss that and pretend that this website is the reason for their departure.

Totally agree.

 

[Despondent]

She seemed like a very smart girl ❤
Though we are pro-choice and I don't thinl one person here can find a thread where another comments to convince someone to ctb
I'm always checking this site. This site has helped comfort me and has shockingly toned down my ctb thoughts. I feel at peace with being given helpful and useful knowledge for planning. I would really hate for something to happen to this site. I don't want to see my second family go. They don't understand. And maybe if they did, this forum wouldn't exist. People are too judgemental when they hear someone is suicidal and they feel like they have to "take cover!! The person isn't safe." Nah, we've all had ctb ideation in our life. Even if it was once and SUPER brief. People don't talk about it, so we're the outcasts on a forum, apparently convincing others to ctb.
Sorry for the rant lol

 

[TAW122]

@a.n.kirillov Thanks and just watched the documentary. My two cents on the documentary are that Callie has already made her decision and she is 100% certain in going through. That is her decision and her's alone. I don't like how the documentary has a pro-life slant and always treated her like a child, patronizing and condescending towards her decision of CTB'ing. Also, not to knock on her parents too much, but her mother is really selfish for intervening and not respecting her daughter's choice. Finally, yes I could see why Callie hid and hid, covered her tracks (anyone who is determined to CTB would) as much as she can as well as cutting ties with people around her as they were a threat towards her decision and attempt to CTB. I would have done the same as well, in fact, if I am stopped from CTB'ing, that would only add another reason (which is two fold, see post) and further drive to succeed in subsequent attempts/future attempts.

@TimeToBiteTheDust Agreed, I hate the fact that they smeared our pro-choice website/forum with their misleading and incorrect labels.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

@thrw_a_way1221221 you know what you're right about the parent bit. Of course it would be wrong to condemn them. It is very hard to just accept the truth without denial or scapegoating. It would be hard for me as well to let a friend go who told me he wanted to kill themselves, although it would be the mature thing to do.

Blaming a forum or the NHS (which just would've prevented her from physicaly harming herself anyway) is immature and honestly pretty ridiculous.

Contrary to what the father said, the truth usually hurts very much; and we can't expect people who never suffered as much and never were so disillusioned as we are to get that.

 

[TAW122]

@thrw_a_way1221221 you know what you're right about the parent bit. Of course it would be wrong to condemn them. It is very hard to just accept the truth without denial or scapegoating. It would be hard for me as well to let a friend go who told me he wanted to kill themselves, although it would be the mature thing to do.

Blaming a forum or the NHS (which just would've prevented her from physicaly harming herself anyway) is immature and honestly pretty ridiculous.

Contrary to what the father said, the truth usually hurts very much; and we can't expect people who never suffered as much and never were so disillusioned as we are to get that.

Yes that is true. I don't except most people (outside of this forum or IRL) to even understand because they didn't "experience" the same things or similar things that most of us on this forum have. At the very least, they should respect others' decisions and treat them like an independent adult who made his/her decisions. In fact, there are many people who make irresponsible decisions in life (having children when they aren't ready, going into various contracts without considering all factors, gambling, eating very unhealthy, letting health go and gradually worsen, etc etc., and yet there aren't people who stop them or intervene or call them 'irrational'. Some even enable or defend such decisions; but that's probably another topic altogether.

 

[Ghost2211]

Thank you for sharing this info, and even more so thank you to all the ss staff for providing this space for us to feel safe and supported. It's sad an unfortunate society hides from peoples personal issues and reasons for suicide, and only focuses on where they acquired support and information.

 

[Alcal]

For many people this forum is their only place where they can be understood and listened to. A place where people can say how they are feeling without fear of being ignored, attacked, sectioned or abused. I feel that the choice to end one's life is a human right. Nobody else has the right to decide that another person should live or die. That right lies with the individual.

The fact that there is a place online where like-minded people can support each other is incredible. It provides a positive coping mechanism for those who need it and emotional support for those who have decided it's time to CTB. Those who decide to CTB know they are not alone in those last moments.

On another level I don't think those who have never experienced suicidal thoughts will ever understand why this community is important. You can't understand unless you experience, and for many death causes nothing but fear. Fear perpetuates anger, and then TV shows like this come out to deligitimise this forum's message and aims.

 

[Mm80]

That's a lie. She would have most likely found another method from another website.

There are hundreds of websites that you can easily find methods and there are other ways that people go to without having to use the internet at all.

Making information hard to find is hardly a deterrent for a determined mind.

I agree with this. And have just found a quote from the samaratins website where they are officially busting myths. Seems like they share some if our views after all.
Myth: Talking about suicide is a bad idea as it may give someone the idea to try it.
Fact: Suicide can be a taboo topic. Often, people who are feeling suicidal don't want to worry or burden anyone with how they feel and so they don't discuss it.
But, by asking someone directly about suicide, you give them permission to tell you how they feel. People who have felt suicidal will often say what a huge relief it was to be able to talk about what they were experiencing.
Once someone starts talking they've got a better chance of discovering options that aren't suicide.

Evidence shows asking someone if they're suicidal can protect them. They feel listened to, and hopefully less trapped. Their feelings are validated, and they know that somebody cares about them. Reaching out can save a life.

There are already people (like the coroner) and ofc many other bureaucrats or powerful trying hard to get us taken down or censored and the coroner's report is just more proof of that.

This is the headline on the bbc news website...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51262240

 

[Heart of Ice]

The video is on Dailymotion for all people outside of the UK.

Can someone link it? I can't find it.

 

[Mm80]

In similarity to Callie Lewis, I am autistic and have been under a mental health team for over a year, I was sectioned on a 136 and told them I was okay and released, the AMHP was made aware of my plans and bare in mind I was caught just before ctb attempt (thanks to my phone tracker I didn't realise I even had).

I was told by services if I wanted to be dead, I would've died by now. Okay, partially true. But CTB is complicated and I'd rather know I chose the right option and that I was ready myself.

They've put my mental health issues down to transitioning from childhood to adulthood, when I'm not having any difficulty with that transition, and I am aware of the difference in responsibility. They've said that my issues are just me struggling to manage and offered therapy, taken off medication, pretty much just told it's just me. Diagnosed with EUPD and Autism and thrown away into the sea of people.

I've told them how much I was struggling, when I was in crisis, my partner even revealed to them about plans in regards to CTB that he found that I had. They pretty much forced me to hand over everything then discharged me. Bought more, and left to do it all. Stopped attending and they presume that's because I'm doing "okay", whatever that actually is?

She didn't end her life because of the forum, she ended her life because of the failure of the services and she clearly wanted help before coming to that decision.

Being Autistic and then being ignored and forgotten about, just worsens somebody's emotions in that state. She would've figured out a way to ctb without SS anyway, it's not realistically hard to google methods anyways and just type in the correct terminology.

Personally I found that I'm still alive because of SrS, because I am so much more aware of the failures, consequences and the risks involved and others experiences, and if I weren't a member here I probably would've found peace a long time ago. The worst part is that Callie was from the same area (approx.) to me. (I no longer live there) and the experience was the same. Media need to stop twisting ways to stop a helpful community, that stops people feeling so isolated. The worst thing is having someone preach that life can get better and just to think positively when that's such an unrealistic perspective.

The UK is failing people so badly, I know so many who have been sectioned and are worse, and others who have been ignored by a system and ctb. This community has been such a big help to me and I hate to see this storyline focus so much on SS and not on the mental health services instead.

~ just my views. If your struggling please make sure you are making that decision wisely and try and speak to someone and get support. There are still opportunities out there! ~
[/QUOTE im in the uk also and awaiting results for asd/ aspergers. Im 39 and was simply written off as depressed at 18. In the programme it was mentioned that a lack of training in autism was a factor. To me this was the biggest let down. I think the fact that the nhs knew very little about autism and how to help some with it, was a massive part of it all. The bbc had an opportunity last night to educate and raise awareness on autism, and possibly save a life. Instead they looked for blame only.

 

[Meretlein]

What I find very telling is how her friends Jan says at one point in the interview: "She either had to live or die, so it was easy: she had to live."

She had to live! See... What do you think, how does that feel to a person who sees themselves as an autonomous, free person?

Also they say Callie felt betrayed by her friend. Are they implying that she falsely felt betrayed? Of course she felt betrayed! She disclosed an immensely burdensome inner struggle to her best friend who then proceeded to call the authorities on her so she can be institutionalized. Smh

-----------

The father: "The truth is not something which hurts."

Well, let's hope he can keep his delusions going strong!!

----------------

Wow. They are so oblivious. They don't give a fuck about her, all they are able to see is their own pain; it is their own pain in losing her that matters, and that's why her suicide has to be prevented. "There's always a solution." Oh okay... Like locking people up and sedating them, taking their freedom from them just so that some dipshit oblivious egotistical parents won't have to finally see through their own denial? Just so that they don't have feel bad, feel a fraction of the suffering that their daughter went through?

She must suffer so they can continue living in their rose coloured world.

---------------

So, what was the "harmful content" they kept talking about? All they quoted was someone saying "May you be at peace" and someone telling her how to interact with institutional powers who were trying to forcibly detain her against her will. Wow if that's harmful content... And that's the best they could find?

Their behavior is what drove Callie to SS. I was driven to SS by this kind of behavior and so were many people I met on here.

 

[HelensNepenthe]

Can someone link it? I can't find it.

"Failed by the NHS Callies Story - Panorama (2020) Documentary" on DailyMotion.

 

[Heart of Ice]

"Failed by the NHS Callies Story - Panorama (2020) Documentary" on DailyMotion.

Dailymotion's search function sucks. Simply entering Callie Lewis or BBC Panorama wasn't enough. Found it now, thanks.

 

[Defenestrator]

Mental health care/help in UK is virtually nil. What 'help' there is on NHS is an absolute shower and is very little use.
Go down private help and that's very mixed too. Very little help full stop out there, this is why forums like this are a lifeline.

I honestly think that there's a concerted effort to kill off people who are mentally unwell and the disabled here at the moment. And by kill off I mean passively, through cuts.

 

[xXSarac3nSlay3rXx]

Sometimes, no one is to blame for things like this: certainly not this site. Regardless, simple-minded people will look for a scapegoat. It's similar to how anti-gun people in the U.S. think that banning guns will solve the problem of mass murder. Some people think drug prohibition prevents drug abuse (which it clearly doesn't). Others are convinced that banning "pro-suicide" sites will prevent suicide. Need I mention that suicide far predates the internet?

 

[faraway_beach]

Just want to add my thanks to the people who founded and maintain this forum. If not for this, I might have tried impulsively with a method that probably would not have worked and could have endangered others. Instead, I'm still here in the discussion.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Sometimes, no one is to blame for things like this: certainly not this site. Regardless, simple-minded people will look for a scapegoat. It's similar to how anti-gun people in the U.S. think that banning guns will solve the problem of mass murder. Some people think drug prohibition prevents drug abuse (which it clearly doesn't). Others are convinced that banning "pro-suicide" sites will prevent suicide. Need I mention that suicide far predates the internet?

But you can't deny that withholding information makes a failed attempt more likely; and thus, the person is "saved". So from their standpoint it makes sense.

 

[Mm80]

I honestly think that there's a concerted effort to kill off people who are mentally unwell and the disabled here at the moment. And by kill off I mean passively, through cuts.

I agree. The government will never admit it but but dont really care for individuals and see it almost as sad but necessary that there are casualties along the way. A bit like collateral damage in wars where innocent people die.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

They'll never prevail with censorship and we will fight every one of their attempts to do so, even if that means having to take drastic measures to do so. We will fight hard to preserve freedom of information and speech.

@Marquis

I am curious as to how this would come about in the real world.

I understand the wisdom of not revealing one's tactics to an enemy; and yet, how can we as members who daily use this site as a resource and vulnerably share our pain, as well as the non-members who daily use this resource, have faith that the SS leadership has not only the intention to represent us as a collective and to fight, but the means and the strategy to do so?

Without evidence to support these claims of intentions to fight, I respectfully assert that it is rhetoric which stirs up the suicidal masses. Your words are powerful; but without correlating action, they are, at best, just words, and at worst, manipulation to serve an unrevealed agenda.

I believe true leaders can and will stand up to questioning, and so I question you here. I believe true leadership is service, and that leaders are responsible to those whom they serve, and so I ask here: Beyond providing a support platform, how does SS intend to actively serve me as a member, and actively serve the ideals of pro-choice and free speech? The SS platform is made public, it is inherently political; I ask: What are the intentions for making posts public and therefore engaging in the political sphere -- is it to openly engage in battle over the right to determine one's own death, or to subversively serve a different agenda?

In January, there was a stickied thread: "The changes that were made to the site have been reversed for the time-being." I posted this comment there:

Curious as to who provides the funding to maintain the site. Too many features for a free platform.

@Marquis ?

@SinisterKid ?

I received no public or private response. So I researched. I discovered SS began on the dark web, and that the owner of the site chooses anonymity. Anyone here can research and find this information by searching website ownership and the history of SS.

From the Bible to John F. Kennedy, it is warned that what is done in secret is up to no good.

I have publicly asked in this post direct and reasonable questions. Without direct, reasonable, and public responses, I have valid reason to suspect that SS and its leadership are wolves in sheep's clothing, and that the public posts of my heart to meet my and others' needs are being used, or will potentially be used, as tools to serve an agenda.

@Marquis, how do you respond? With silence, or with service?

 

[MsMaudlin]

Is there any way of watching this please not through the BBC?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

At the time I'm writing this, there are 453 people online on this forum right now. Hardly obscure. You can find this site on Google.

And the idea that suicide forums (I'm calling this place a "suicide forum" out of no disrespect) leads to suicide is not completely unbelievable. The news, for example, usually doesn't mention details when reporting suicides so that people don't get any ideas. I understand that some people get a lot out of this site: support, friendship, companionship, hope, much more than gritty details on how to end one's existence. But saying that forums like these are complete non-factors in suicide is dishonest, because it very well might be. Hell, Calle might still be alive if this site didn't exist. Miserable, probably, but alive.

Now I'm all for freedom of information and that, but they do have an argument to want this site taken down. Although I guess in the long run the crusade against Sanctioned Suicide causes a lot more damage than if this massive publicity stunt would not take place.

453 people is miniscule compared to the 3 billion Facebook users . I million people in the world committed suicide in the world every year before this website was created. And that is underreported.

Censorship is wrong. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong? All humans die anyway and most a painful death as in cancer.

I would die a horrible death soon anyway if i don't do anything .What's wrong with me having info available to make my passing less painful?

It's insane imo for people not to have an exit strategy just in case things go bad as they did in my case or as we've seen here with so many users with cancer, lyme , homelessness etc.

So if you censor info like what i just wrote "that it is smart to have an exit strategy just in case" that censorship limits and hurts people severely.
if you censor knowledge you create a false reality.

@Marquis

I am curious as to how this would come about in the real world.

I understand the wisdom of not revealing one's tactics to an enemy; and yet, how can we as members, as well as the non-members who daily use this site as a resource and vulnerably share our pain, have faith that the SS leadership has not only the intention to represent us as a collective and to fight, but the means and the strategy to do so?

Without evidence to support these claims of intentions to fight, I respectfully assert that it is rhetoric which stirs up the suicidal masses. Your words are powerful; but without correlating action, they are, at best, just words, and at worst, manipulation to serve an unrevealed agenda.

I believe true leaders can and will stand up to questioning, and so I question you here. I believe true leadership is service, and that leaders are responsible to those whom they serve, and so I ask here: Beyond providing a support platform, how does SS intend to actively serve me as a member, and actively serve the ideals of pro-choice and free speech? The SS platform is made public, it is inherently political; I ask: What are the intentions for making posts public and therefore engaging in the political sphere -- is it to openly engage in battle over the right to determine one's own death, or to subversively serve a different agenda?

In January, there was a stickied thread: "The changes that were made to the site have been reversed for the time-being." I posted this comment there:



I received no public or private response. So I researched. I discovered SS began on the dark web, and that the owner of the site chooses anonymity. Anyone here can research and find this information by searching website ownership and the history of SS.

From the Bible to John F. Kennedy, it is warned that what is done in secret is up to no good.

I have publicly asked in this post direct and reasonable questions. Without direct, reasonable, and public responses, I have valid reason to suspect that SS and its leadership are wolves in sheep's clothing, and that the public posts of my heart to meet my and others' needs are being used, or will potentially be used, as tools to serve someone else's agenda.

@Marquis, how do you respond? With silence, or with service?

SS is a private website . They provide a great service for free. They make no profit. There are no ads . I thank the owner for this website. It must cost a lot of money and time to run a website like this .The owners of this site already did more than Anyone has and don't owe anyone anything.

 

[HelensNepenthe]

Is there any way of watching this please not through the BBC?

DailyMotion "Failed by the NHS Callies Story - Panorama (2020) Documentary"

I'm not sure if direct linking is allowed on the forum, but if you look that up on Google you'll find it.