dude you're on a suicide forum
Starting with this. I was on the original sanctioned suicide subreddit almost a decade ago now. I got married this year. I still have issues with depression, and I like and relate to people in this community. It's my anonymous outlet.
Do you really think it is contradictory to be in a happy relationship and still have suicidal thoughts? If life were only about relationships, sure, I could see that, but it's not.
Let's start somewhere. 70-80% of divorces are initiated by women (women choose these men mostly btw), 80% of prisoners are fatherless, nobody puts any responsibility on the mother for choosing the father in the first place but put all the blame on the father for leaving. This is because women don't choose men based on how good of a father they will be but what they can do for the woman financially and sexually. Women then blame the actions of sexually active men onto incels, this is called the apex fallacy. The men who have zero experience with women have to pick up after other men's leftovers, I can't think of a more pathetic existence. Being single/loveless all your life and then having to commit to a woman who has slept with multiple men.
Men pursue, women choose. I agree that's the general rule, and part of the ugly compounding cycle I mentioned to Dot. As men get more desperate, women become more cautious, women being more cautious makes men more hesitant to approach, men generally being the pursuers means less approaching = less matching, less matching means men become more desperate, and we're back to the top.
So we have two statistics here where - I'll use your numbers - we're talking about 80%. Pareto would be pleased! We're still talking about 20% not being part of the issue. This is where generalizing and applying the macro to the micro is unproductive.
Can I ask why your anger is only at the women and not the apex men? The idea seems to be that women are screwing everything up by acting in short-term self interest rather than thinking about both the long term and their overall effect on the dating market. What about the men who leave women as "leftovers"? Surely they should see the problem they are causing, and wait until they find one good partner and only that partner. It strikes me that these apex men each do the equivilent damage of many many individual women in this way.
Aren't the apex men - accepting your theory of hypergamy, that women are the ones who primarily shoot for people out of their league - leading the women on and deceiving them into believing they are of equal level?
Who said men only value looks?
Well we're greatly oversimplifying in general, but the only things they value that have been mentioned are looks and number of past partners.
Both genders do, it's literally our way of detecting good genetics, this shit is based off evolution. I don;t get what you're saying here, are you saying women don't care about looks? that is a very absurd statement.
No, of course women care about looks. I'm right there with you. But, if women care about Looks, say 50%, and 25% height and 25% money (obviusly pulling these out of my ass as an example) and men care about looks 75% and other factors 25%, then the amount that looks matter is overleveraged in one direction. That's my point.
And men, you're forgetting how this literally causes broken homes. Broken homes then causes a multitude of issues. A woman's sexual history can cause broken homes.
Broken homes and the breakdown of families are a big problem. There's no single larger indicator of success than having both your mom and dad in the house.
The market determines the value/level, not me. The dating market values looks first, for men and women. Men are just more honest about their preferences.
Most women, I mean like pretty much all of them.
Where are our statistics here? Who says men are more honest about their preferences? I'm genuinely curious here, because it strikes me that a woman saying she wants a man over a certain height is brutally honest.
And then what percent of women care about height and to what extent? On one hand, I do think height is way overblown by some women, but I also think having some preference is reasonable.
They struggle to get the men they want.
Your point here being that the men they struggle to get are wrong in some way. We've established that incels do have at least some preferences: "[e]very single incel I've spoken to wants a woman on their level." Looksmatching. They want someone on their level in looks, disregarding other factors.
Do you think these women are wrong about the men they want, or that they should settle for men that they don't want?
Because I feel sympathy for everyone who thinks they're trapped by dating someone who looksmatches with them, men and women. Of course there is a desire in all of us to be with someone really beautiful.