Anyone else fear after death you have to watch wgat your actions did to loved ones

[heyismeman]

My worst fear is after I pass in some form I have to watch my loved ones reaction to me dying. Anyone else consider this and fear it

 

[Languish]

I actually fear emptiness, because I have felt empty my whole life. I am not religious at all, and imagine when I die, I won't exist at all. That emptiness is a large reason as to why I haven't chosen to die yet. I sometimes wonder if feeling pain is better than never feeling at all. I wish I could feel alive.

 

[heyismeman]

I actually fear emptiness, because I have felt empty my whole life. I am not religious at all, and imagine when I die, I won't exist at all. That emptiness is a large reason as to why I haven't chosen to die yet. I sometimes wonder if feeling pain is better than never feeling at all. I wish I could feel alive.

Well I think nothingness is best case scenario if there's nothing but emptiness in the sense your consciousness doesn't exist that to me sounds amazing, but I doubt it so much

 

[roommate]

Yea kinda in a way.
But I also get these thoughts that I'm curious about how they react, but that's obviously nothing I will pursue, i'ts kinda dark...

 

[divinemistress36]

My worst fear is after I pass in some form I have to watch my loved ones reaction to me dying. Anyone else consider this and fear it

Like a life review? My friend had a nde and saw his familys reaction

 

[heyismeman]

Like a life review? My friend had a nde and saw his familys reaction

That would be the fuckin worst, having to watch all my family react to my death. Worst case afterlife scenario

 

[divinemistress36]

That would be the fuckin worst, having to watch all my family react to my death. Worst case afterlife scenario

He said theres no judgement on the otherside. Its only your souls judgement

 

[TheHolySword]

I wouldn't want to see that, but I would want to know that they would all be okay in the end. I know they'll never fully heal from this, but to see how things might look 20-30 years from now and know it got better for the people i love most. I would experience the former if it meant getting to know the latter.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

No.. All i am is a brain. 1/10 of a second after my brain dies i can never think nor exist again.

 

[heyismeman]

No.. All i am is a brain. 1/10 of a second after my brain dies i can never think nor exist again.

It's funny that most people who are completely rational, smart individuals disagree with that. I'm glad you're fully confident in that it must be nice truly

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

It's funny that most people who are completely rational, smart individuals disagree with that. I'm glad you're fully confident in that it must be nice truly

all of science any book on many different subjects like neuroscience , the brain, the cell, evolution all show a human is just cells, all life is cells , a human is a brain

Is There Life After Death? The Mind-Body Problem

Death has never been popular. The intuition that the mind is more than the product of the brain and will survive its death feels correct, but is flatly contradicted by science.

www.psychologytoday.com

What Actually Is Consciousness, and How Did It Evolve?

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. Consciousness is no exception—it seems nonphysical, but is very much a biological phenomenon.

www.psychologytoday.com

All Life on Earth Comes From One Single Ancestor. And It's So Much Older Than We Thought.

Scientists have pushed back LUCA’s origin by hundreds of millions of years.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[charcoalcat]

If we are to exist in some form after death where we can still see what's happening in this world the last thing in my mind would be lingering around my corpse. A form of consciousness without the limitations of a physical body. Can you imagine the possibilities..

 

[heyismeman]

all of science any book on many different subjects like neurocience , the brain, the cell, evolution all show a human is just cells, all life is cells , a human is a brain

I have life experiences call it spooky stuff that makes me disagree and an intrinsic feeling consciousness is part of something different then just a brain. I could be wrong but I highlyyyyyyy doubt it's just that personally. As I view my life and review major events there's an obvious realization something was pulling the strings. Am I man who just happened to be alive at the current present, all the odds of billions of years I'm presently alive, I think not and I've always been in some form.

If we are to exist in some form after death where we can still see what's happening in this world the last thing in my mind would be lingering around my corpse. A form of consciousness without the limitations of a physical body. Can you imagine the possibilities..

Powchikwawa am I right

 

[Eudaimonic]

all of science any book on many different subjects like neuroscience , the brain, the cell, evolution all show a human is just cells, all life is cells , a human is a brain

Is There Life After Death? The Mind-Body Problem

Death has never been popular. The intuition that the mind is more than the product of the brain and will survive its death feels correct, but is flatly contradicted by science.

www.psychologytoday.com

What Actually Is Consciousness, and How Did It Evolve?

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. Consciousness is no exception—it seems nonphysical, but is very much a biological phenomenon.

www.psychologytoday.com

All Life on Earth Comes From One Single Ancestor. And It's So Much Older Than We Thought.

Scientists have pushed back LUCA’s origin by hundreds of millions of years.

www.popularmechanics.com

None of that addresses the hard problem/explanatory gap, though. All fail to address the myriads of problems with illusionist stances on consciousness. And they also present a false dichotomy, where the only frameworks on offer are a substance dualist one and a materialist physicalist one. But this is simply false, not to mention misleading.

 

[ParalyzedVeteran]

I wish I could believe in some fantastic afterlife. Your consciousness ends when your brain dies. My brother had a cardiac arrest just in time for Christmas. It took his body several more days to die.

 

[heyismeman]

I wish I could believe in some fantastic afterlife. Your consciousness ends when your brain dies. My brother had a cardiac arrest just in time for Christmas. It took his body several more days to die.

I hope so but I don't think so. I think it's 50/50

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

None of that addresses the hard problem/explanatory gap, though. All fail to address the myriads of problems with illusionist stances on consciousness. And they also present a false dichotomy, where the only frameworks on offer are a substance dualist one and a materialist physicalist one. But this is simply false.

so what are the differences between an individual brain cell in a fly , human, mouse or fish? or differences from a human brain cell and any other cell like an ameoba , and the first cell and first eukaryotic cell.

are you saying evolution is a lie? it's true there are rooms full of evidence,experiments and studies . if evolution is false then how did live start where did life come from where did humans come from .

A cell evolved around 4 billion years ago. it had DNA , the genetic code, ribosomes , ATP and many other machines and chemical molecular processes. all of these are in a human brain cell and in all cells which why we know that every living thing evolved from that first cell.

if there are no significant differences between these individual brain cells in a human, fly ,mouse ,fish then how are they different . they are not and they all evolved from the same single ancestor.

humans like other species that first cell are just machines, chemical reactions nothing more. that any of us thinks anything is important or matters is because evolution and culture society shaped neural networks in the brain to program them to think that . nothing matters objectively . what matters to a bug?

Graziano’s non-mystical approach to consciousness

Someone called my attention to a new paper by Michael Graziano: A conceptual framework for consciousness. I’ve highlighted Graziano’s approach and theory many times over the years. I th…

selfawarepatterns.com

https://grazianolab.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf3411/files/graziano/files/graziano_2020_review.pdf

i know it's non-existence forever every line in a molecular cell biology textbook shows that to me and cross confirms other books in evolution , brain science , chemistry , physics etc. there is a whole 500 page book describing the hierarchical machines of the cell.

note: imo anyone would want to believe that it's non-existence forever after Death. if you know about the law of probability then with multiple lives or afterlives there could be a lot of the worst kind of suffering or torture pain for extended , depening on if it never ends by the law of probability then you will go through the worst suffering pain torture imaginable. but there are no details like if it ends , when does it end then? where is the power source , where is the soul and souls etc what are the details. there are no details nor evidence for any afterlife , soul, reincarnation nothing ever .

 

[radiohead]

i think i'm terrified of that prospect actually. i feel physically sick at the idea of it
quadeca's 'i didn't mean to haunt you' album is about that eventuality it's probably scared me out of attempting more than i have
it would utterly shatter me to be aware of that. to not have the same 'escape route' from it too is inconceivable .
haha wow this is scary. i used to be content with materialism but now my brain wanders for fun

 

[Eudaimonic]

so what are the differences between an individual brain cell in a fly , human, mouse or fish? or differences from a human brain cell and any other cell like an ameoba , and the first cell and first eukaryotic cell.

are you saying evolution is a lie? it's true there are rooms full of evidence,experiments and studies . if evolution is false then how did live start where did life come from where did humans come from .

A cell evolved around 4 billion years ago. it had DNA , the genetic code, ribosomes , ATP and many other machines and chemical molecular processes. all of these are in a human brain cell and in all cells which why we know that every living thing evolved from that first cell.

if there are no significant differences between these individual brain cells in a human, fly ,mouse ,fish then how are they different . they are not and they all evolved from the same single ancestor.

humans like other species that first cell are just machines, chemical reactions nothing more. that any of us thinks anything is important or matters is because evolution and culture society shaped neural networks in the brain to program them to think that . nothing matters objectively . what matters to a bug?

Graziano’s non-mystical approach to consciousness

Someone called my attention to a new paper by Michael Graziano: A conceptual framework for consciousness. I’ve highlighted Graziano’s approach and theory many times over the years. I th…

selfawarepatterns.com

https://grazianolab.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf3411/files/graziano/files/graziano_2020_review.pdf

All of this is immaterial with regard to the hard problem

IMO, Graziano fails to address it

 

[SchrodingerIsDed]

You doubt it out of f

Well I think nothingness is best case scenario if there's nothing but emptiness in the sense your consciousness doesn't exist that to me sounds amazing, but I doubt it so much

You doubt that we just return to the nothingness from whence we came? Why? I can't imagine any other scenario aside from it being the same as before we were born. I'm afraid of the Christian Hell, just because that's what I was taught; but, if I had been born in Japan or India, I'd be thinking I'd be reincarnated; if I was born Native, I'd be thinking we'd move onto some kind of spirit realm.

The end of the day, no one knows anything, and if they say they do, they're lying or misunderstanding physical reactions. DMT is released upon death, so near death experiences are just tripping balls, even though they likely feel more real than reality.

Nah. It has to be nothingness.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

All of this is immaterial with regard to the hard problem

IMO, Graziano fails to address it

consciousness is just a horror of this brain that can produce unending constant unbearable pain. other animals have it and can feel pain , think , solve problems , learn, dream , recognize objects etc same brain in other animals and a human , a human is just another animal. if i'm unconscoius as in anesthesia i can't feel pain . wake up and then unbearable pain see the difference which is better? that's the problem sentience consciouness without that abomination then no pain no suffering.

imagine the worst torture pain or suffering trapped in a nightmare. i can gaurantee you that as bad as you can imagine it the realty of someone going through that hell is a billion times worse than somoene imagining it. plus there are hells tortures themselves so bad no one would believe it. that there would be 1/10000th of a chance of me falling into such hell i would never want any kind of life existence. but to me i dont see anything as important anyway. i know it's non-existence forever after Death and i long for non-existence to keep me safe from the horror of existence. imo anyone would want to believe that it's non-existence forever after Death. if you know about the law of probability then with multiple lives or afterlives there could be a lot of the worst kind of suffering or torture pain for extended , depening on if it never ends by the law of probability then you will go through the worst suffering pain torture imaginable. but there are no details like if it ends , when does it end then? where is the power source , where is the soul and souls etc what are the details. there are no details nor evidence for any afterlife , soul, reincarnation nothing ever .

concioussness is just a horror of this brain that can produce unending constant unbearable pain.

imo just be thankful all you can suffer is for 90 years and hope you don't fall into the most extreme torture until non-existence forever. imo i don't see why someone would want or believe in the ability to suffer for trillions to the qudrillion power years

 

[Eudaimonic]

imagine the worst torture pain or suffering trapped in a nightmare. i can gaurantee you that as bad as you can imagine it the realty of someone going through that hell is a billion times worse than somene imagining it. plus there are hells tortures themselves so bad noi one would believe it. that there would be 1/10000th of a chance of me falling into such hell i would never want anyt kind of life existence. but to me i dont see anything as important anyway. i know it's non-existence after Death and i long for non-existence to keep me safe from the horror of existence. imo anyone would want to believe that it's non-existence forever after Death. if you know about the law of probability then with multiple lives or afterlives there could be a lot of the worst kind of suffering or torture pain for extended , depening on if it never ends by the law of probability then you will go through the worst suffering pain torture imaginable. but there are no details like if it ends , when does it end then? where is the power source , where is the soul and souls etc what are the details. there are no details nor evidence for any afterlife , soul, reincarnation nothing ever .

I'm not saying there is Hell, dualist reincarnation, or anything like that, just that we don't actually know that there's nothingness after death

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm not saying there is Hell, dualist reincarnation, or anything like that, just that we don't actually know that there's nothingness after death

i'm not saying there is any hell i'm saying existence can be hell like here life for a human on Earth. i'm saying that only non-existence forever after Death is the only guarantee of anyone not going through the worst kind of suffering pain or torture. i see a lot of people believe in afterlives but they don't give any details of these lives after Death. i know since they can't give any details then they can't guarantee i nor anyone won't go through the worst kind of suffering pain , or torture in this life or any afterlife .

non-existence forever = no chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture. any kind of life / existence / consciousness there is a chance of chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture

so to me non-existence is what is desirable . i don't want to be at risk for extreme suffering. by the law of probability the longer i exist the more likely something very horrible will happen to me . so i want to shorten the time i exist to lessen my chance of suffering extremely is one reason i want to ctb asap.

 

[ParalyzedVeteran]

You doubt it out of f

You doubt that we just return to the nothingness from whence we came? Why? I can't imagine any other scenario aside from it being the same as before we were born. I'm afraid of the Christian Hell, just because that's what I was taught; but, if I had been born in Japan or India, I'd be thinking I'd be reincarnated; if I was born Native, I'd be thinking we'd move onto some kind of spirit realm.

The end of the day, no one knows anything, and if they say they do, they're lying or misunderstanding physical reactions. DMT is released upon death, so near death experiences are just tripping balls, even though they likely feel more real than reality.

Nah. It has to be nothingness.

I could not have said it better. If one requires an afterlife, they only need create one. There is a post here where a woman describes her heaven as being a place where high school never ends, and everyone treats everyone in a loving and caring way. I not only find her description preferable to many I've read, I assert that hers is the equal of any other made-up heaven.

 

[heyismeman]

Your no

i'm not saying there is any hell i'm saying existence can be hell like here life for a human on Earth. i'm saying that only non-existence forever after Death is the only guarantee of anyone not going through the worst kind of suffering pain or torture. i see a lot of people believe in afterlives but they don't give any details of these lives after Death. i know since they can't give any details then they can't guarantee i nor anyone won't go through the worst kind of suffering pain , or torture in this life or any afterlife .

non-existence forever = no chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture. any kind of life / existence / consciousness there is a chance of chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture

so to me non-existence is what is desirable . i don't want to be at risk for extreme suffering. by the law of probability the longer i exist the more likely something very horrible will happen to me . so i want to shorten the time i exist to lessen my chance of suffering extremely is one reason i want to ctb asap.

i'm not saying there is any hell i'm saying existence can be hell like here life for a human on Earth. i'm saying that only non-existence forever after Death is the only guarantee of anyone not going through the worst kind of suffering pain or torture. i see a lot of people believe in afterlives but they don't give any details of these lives after Death. i know since they can't give any details then they can't guarantee i nor anyone won't go through the worst kind of suffering pain , or torture in this life or any afterlife .

non-existence forever = no chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture. any kind of life / existence / consciousness there is a chance of chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture

so to me non-existence is what is desirable . i don't want to be at risk for extreme suffering. by the law of probability the longer i exist the more likely something very horrible will happen to me . so i want to shorten the time i exist to lessen my chance of suffering extremely is one reason i want to ctb asap.

You're state of none existence will be extremely quick just like before you were born, as in like in a coma you'll just simply wake up, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. The universe is 18 billion years old and that's just since big bang, this is likely not by pure chance your tiny little sliver of consciousness that lasts not even a hair in the grand total time frame of reality. An observer in capable of changing things in the quantum level, I think human awareness and consciousness is likely part of the physics that allows the universe to move

 

[SchrodingerIsDed]

i'm not saying there is any hell i'm saying existence can be hell like here life for a human on Earth. i'm saying that only non-existence forever after Death is the only guarantee of anyone not going through the worst kind of suffering pain or torture. i see a lot of people believe in afterlives but they don't give any details of these lives after Death. i know since they can't give any details then they can't guarantee i nor anyone won't go through the worst kind of suffering pain , or torture in this life or any afterlife .

non-existence forever = no chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture. any kind of life / existence / consciousness there is a chance of chance of extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture

so to me non-existence is what is desirable . i don't want to be at risk for extreme suffering. by the law of probability the longer i exist the more likely something very horrible will happen to me . so i want to shorten the time i exist to lessen my chance of suffering extremely is one reason i want to ctb asap.

I have this viewpoint on some level, as well. But then the counterarguments will usually be, "But then you avoid the most pleasures, as well." What would you say there? By unaliving, you also remove all chances of extreme joy, extreme pleasure, extreme satisfaction.

 

[quietism]

My worst fear is after I pass in some form I have to watch my loved ones reaction to me dying. Anyone else consider this and fear it

Nope. No fear from me because I don't have any loved ones. And I probably wouldn't want to die nearly as much if I did have that and they really cared about me.

I have a pretty good idea what it'd be like hypothetically though if I did have loved ones, I really like this paper for describing it:
Queer Suicidality, Conflict and Repair: The Death of Bryn Kelly

I am not a religious person and I do not believe in an afterlife. Instead, it has been my experience that heaven and hell take place on earth. And so, our lives provide us with opportunities for depth of meaning and understanding IF we face and deal with difficulties honestly. It is that uncomfortable, sad and overwhelming work that can bring us to the revelations we need to survive, thrive, and be accountable to others.
[...]
At each interview level, to the officer, to the homicide detective, to the medical examiner, I said that same sentence. "She was a wonderful person, with a beautiful partner and many caring friends." "So, what happened here?" the police would ask. "She didn't have a system for tolerating frustration," I said. I signed the body identification form. And in that time, I spent most of the night looking at her lying dead on the floor. This was not her suicide fantasy—lying on the floor with a police detective scotch taping her noose to her leg, her loved ones crushed, her sisters and community threatened by her example. The policeman stepping on her bed with his shoes.
[...]
This is what suicide really does. It causes nothing but despair. It does not get revenge. It ends a life filled with love and promise. It deprives the world, and it causes more death.
[...]
That had she been able to be sure of secure housing, had she been able to enter an immersive, individuated, full- service environment that recognized and valued her, as we here all recognize and value her, perhaps her life could have been saved. But without it, she could not get to a place where the frustration provoked by normative difficulty did not become an emblem of all the grotesque institutional oppression and erasure and burden that she had been asked to bear.

I do not view Bryn's death as a failure of our community, but rather as a wound on our loving, caring yet fragile community assaulted regularly by a punitive and indifferent system. We must stop destroying ourselves, while letting the institutions that are hurting us, stand, unopposed.

 

[SchrodingerIsDed]

Your no


You're state of none existence will be extremely quick just like before you were born, as in like in a coma you'll just simply wake up, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. The universe is 18 billion years old and that's just since big bang, this is likely not by pure chance your tiny little sliver of consciousness that lasts not even a hair in the grand total time frame of reality. An observer in capable of changing things in the quantum level, I think human awareness and consciousness is likely part of the physics that allows the universe to move

Interesting. What do you mean it is likely not by pure chance? The fact that we exist in such an infinitesimal state means that we are actually as significant as the universe? What would the purpose of such a tremendously large space be if it was perpetuated by such small beings? I have been interested in these ideas of the quantum realm, superposition, the idea that perhaps our consciousness can interact with things on the quantum level, instantaneously influencing others or even the universe itself, feeling where others are, other preternatural ideas like astral projection and such. If the rules are totally different on the quantum realm, who is to say they are not completely different in other areas, as well. A spiritual realm, for instance.

I had a friend once who said it best: on an infinite timeline, anything and everything that can happen will happen. So theoretically, the formation of the particular environment that initially generated you can and certainly will re-appear eventually, on an infinite timeline. So. Hell. Not only could a form of reincarnation exist, we could potentially be reborn in almost the same circumstances with the same consciousness. I haven't thought about that for awhile. We had to actually have been spawned from the nothingness, which means that it's possible, which means that it will definitely happen again on a long enough timeline.

Well shit. I had forgotten about that until your comment. I much preferred the idea of nothingness. It could very well be simply like going into a coma then waking up immediately, even if billions of years had passed. Trillions of years. Then we simply wake up again. But, we could wake up in entirely different circumstances, as well.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I have this viewpoint on some level, as well. But then the counterarguments will usually be, "But then you avoid the most pleasures, as well." What would you say there? By unaliving, you also remove all chances of extreme joy, extreme pleasure, extreme satisfaction.

i don't need nor want any of those supposed joy , pleasure etc. in the first place . plus the extreme pain possible dwarfs any meaningless addiction pleasure.
what's worth just 6 hours of burning pain in the brazen bull torture where all your skin is being burned against scalding hot metal over fire?

Your no


You're state of none existence will be extremely quick just like before you were born, as in like in a coma you'll just simply wake up, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. The universe is 18 billion years old and that's just since big bang, this is likely not by pure chance your tiny little sliver of consciousness that lasts not even a hair in the grand total time frame of reality. An observer in capable of changing things in the quantum level, I think human awareness and consciousness is likely part of the physics that allows the universe to move

i don't buy any of that plus there's no evidence plus roomsfulls of evidence a human is just another animal a machine chemical reactions. do chemical reactions exist forever

i'll always believe after my brain dies it will be non-existence forever . there is no evidence for any of those theories of afterlives, quantum bs, multiverses, other dimensions, computer simulation nothing ... these are all just theories with no evidence. imo all that just to give a human a feeling of importance anything other than to believe just chemical reactions , a machine no difference from anything else a machine or other chemical reactions. why haven't they ever found a single peice of experimental evidence for any of these things after many decades of trying to find evidence?


there's no evidence plus no details , no details of the mechanism for any of those theories like where are the souls, the power source , etc, why no evidence of a soul or power source for example with all the equipment ?

 

[SchrodingerIsDed]

Nope. No fear from me because I don't have any loved ones. And I probably wouldn't want to die nearly as much if I did have that and they really cared about me.

I have a pretty good idea what it'd be like hypothetically though if I did have loved ones, I really like this paper for describing it:
Queer Suicidality, Conflict and Repair: The Death of Bryn Kelly

I am not a religious person and I do not believe in an afterlife. Instead, it has been my experience that heaven and hell take place on earth. And so, our lives provide us with opportunities for depth of meaning and understanding IF we face and deal with difficulties honestly. It is that uncomfortable, sad and overwhelming work that can bring us to the revelations we need to survive, thrive, and be accountable to others.
[...]
At each interview level, to the officer, to the homicide detective, to the medical examiner, I said that same sentence. "She was a wonderful person, with a beautiful partner and many caring friends." "So, what happened here?" the police would ask. "She didn't have a system for tolerating frustration," I said. I signed the body identification form. And in that time, I spent most of the night looking at her lying dead on the floor. This was not her suicide fantasy—lying on the floor with a police detective scotch taping her noose to her leg, her loved ones crushed, her sisters and community threatened by her example. The policeman stepping on her bed with his shoes.
[...]
This is what suicide really does. It causes nothing but despair. It does not get revenge. It ends a life filled with love and promise. It deprives the world, and it causes more death.
[...]
That had she been able to be sure of secure housing, had she been able to enter an immersive, individuated, full- service environment that recognized and valued her, as we here all recognize and value her, perhaps her life could have been saved. But without it, she could not get to a place where the frustration provoked by normative difficulty did not become an emblem of all the grotesque institutional oppression and erasure and burden that she had been asked to bear.

I do not view Bryn's death as a failure of our community, but rather as a wound on our loving, caring yet fragile community assaulted regularly by a punitive and indifferent system. We must stop destroying ourselves, while letting the institutions that are hurting us, stand, unopposed.

That was a good read. Same here. No loved ones. Which is truly freeing, in a way. And peaceful.