Ancient methods?

[peacefullyprepared]

Hi there. Ive been going through posts and aside from the more violent approaches it seems like there is a lot of difficulty sourcing the items needed to choose to exit peacefully. I am in indiana and there are several plants that have been used by indigenous peoples to ease and facilitate passing such as black cohosh, mayapple (American mandrake), poison water hemlock, wild tobacco, jimsonweed and so on. It can be made into a death draught dry (as its fall) or fresh. It can even be sweetened with honey to be more palatable. Ethnobotanists have been reinvigorating these methods as palliative care techniques im curious if anyone has heard of anyone choosing truly natural means to end their time here? Im leaning toward jimsonroot (hallucinogen), hemlock and mayapple. The high level of potency of the poison shouldn't take much just thought id get se feedback.

 

[unluckysadness]

Crucifixion as an ancient method but not peaceful at all.
Don't pay attention with this post, I'm just tired these days and I'm so silly, but my dark sense of humour is still here...

 

[avalokitesvara]

People here don't advise this kind of thing, because you have no idea or way of ascertaining the toxicity of the plants. They are often credited with a painful death, as well. I don't think you'll find much information here. Myself, I'm quite interested in plant medicine and want to research more into taxus baccata (European yew).

 

[sanctionedusage]

this is a really cool idea

but it sounds very unreliable and uncontrolled, i think the most reliable ancient method would be hanging. with a vine, if you want to go as organic as possible. maybe look into a plant sedative to use in conjunction with this, to make it less uncomfortable?

 

[Forveleth]

The problem with plant poisoning is that you do not know how much poison is actually in the plant. It can vary by region, weather, plant genetics, and time of year. There are a few threads with various plant experiments here but no one has come up with anything viable.

 

[peacefullyprepared]

Well ive read several articles and found some old books at the library on herbalism, the death draughts and pain draughts were used to ease pain and suffering plus mayapple and hemlock have been used for centuries. It's rumored Socrates' execution was carried out with hemlock mixed in wine. There are many resources available discussing the toxicity of the plants. Even a quick Google search tells you not to touch or burn say hemlock or mayapple because even the leaves and roots are poisonous. Ripe mayapple fruit can be eaten and made into jams and jellies when the seeds are taken out but the rest is highly toxic. The primary method was using a flat river stone and a smaller stone as mortar and pestle to release the oils and poured over animal fat or mixed with water depending on what was available and obviously more time could be taken with and elder dying of old age than say a warrior that was wounded or a woman dying from childbirth complications. The draughts were said to release the soul from the body and everything I have read so far said it was very peaceful. Its basically just a toxic tea. Here are some notes I took on my phone obviously some are better than others:

Plants that were used across North America — including the Miami, Shawnee, Potawatomi, and other Great Lakes and Eastern Woodlands peoples — for pain relief, sedation, or death-related rituals.

Plant (Common Name)Latin NameTraditional Region / UsersHistoric UseActive Compounds / Effects

Jimsonweed / Thorn AppleDatura stramoniumWidespread; used by Algonquian, Zuni, and othersInduce trance, visions, unconsciousness; sometimes death in high dosesTropane alkaloids (scopolamine, atropine); powerful hallucinogen and sedative
MayapplePodophyllum peltatumMiami, Shawnee, CherokeeUsed as purgative and to "end suffering" in large dosesPodophyllotoxin; causes cell death and organ failure in excess
BloodrootSanguinaria canadensisGreat Lakes, Eastern WoodlandsApplied for infections; in excess, used as lethal or purification plantSanguinarine; numbing, emetic, and cytotoxic
Black CohoshActaea racemosaGreat Lakes and Appalachian regionsPain relief, muscle relaxation, calming the dyingTriterpene glycosides; sedative and hypotensive
White SnakerootAgeratina altissimaMidwest (including Indiana)Medicine for snakebite; fatal in large dosesTremetol; causes "milk sickness" and paralysis
Lobelia / Indian TobaccoLobelia inflataEastern North AmericaStrong expectorant, antispasmodic; high doses caused sleep or deathLobeline; respiratory depressant
Wild TobaccoNicotiana rusticaGreat Lakes, Plains, SouthwestRitual smoke and ingestion; trance inductionNicotine and harmala alkaloids; toxic at high doses
Hemlock (poison hemlock)Conium maculatumIntroduced to North America later; known to Indigenous herbalists post-contactRarely used; fatal neurotoxinConiine; respiratory paralysis
Willow BarkSalix spp.WidespreadPainkiller, mixed with other plants for palliative careSalicylates (like aspirin); analgesic
Dogbane / Indian HempApocynum cannabinumEastern WoodlandsSedative, also used in "peaceful death" rituals in some storiesCardiac glycosides; heart arrest in overdose

Crucifixion as an ancient method but not peaceful at all.
Don't pay attention with this post, I'm just tired these days and I'm so silly, but my dark sense of humour is still here...

Lol I love a good dark humor bit your humor is welcome here

this is a really cool idea

but it sounds very unreliable and uncontrolled, i think the most reliable ancient method would be hanging. with a vine, if you want to go as organic as possible. maybe look into a plant sedative to use in conjunction with this, to make it less uncomfortable?

Thats a good idea but I imagine just via natural selection and available information online and in herbalist and botany resources dosage could be figured out. Personally I dont care if it is not peaceful but everything I have read about it has said most combinations are. I mean I wouldnt suggest poison oak or ivy or other means obviously. But what ive read it sounds like essentially it jist puts you to sleep and some accounts report taking no more than a ladle. Its definitely the way im leaning. Though yout idea of using perhaps a paralytic plant amd hanging is sound.

People here don't advise this kind of thing, because you have no idea or way of ascertaining the toxicity of the plants. They are often credited with a painful death, as well. I don't think you'll find much information here. Myself, I'm quite interested in plant medicine and want to research more into taxus baccata (European yew).

I can see the concern there but the historical accounts from civilizations all over the world kind of well, honestly, they disprove the "painful" and "unreliable" arguments. Thousands of years of indigenous and ancient knowledge have been lost to colonizers and capitalists (thanks big pharma). Its my belief it simply isnt profitable for people to be able tontreat themselves out of their own backyards so we have been sold propaganda saying its dangerous doesn't work etc etc. But history has a much different story to tell.

The problem with plant poisoning is that you do not know how much poison is actually in the plant. It can vary by region, weather, plant genetics, and time of year. There are a few threads with various plant experiments here but no one has come up with anything viable.

I suppose that could be true but again colony health and natural selection still reign supreme in nature and local knowledge is deep, at least in my area. Being early the fall the oils containing the toxins will dry and be accessed by grinding and making the tea. I do plan to be well a bit overzealous in my dosing. Hemlock itself is interesting because it is often confused for queen Anne's lace so it would likely be ruled as an accidental poisoning by a neophyte forager as opposed to suicide if taken alone.

 

[sanctionedusage]

Personally I dont care if it is not peaceful but everything I have read about it has said most combinations are... But what ive read it sounds like essentially it jist puts you to sleep and some accounts report taking no more than a ladle.

what's your inspiration for this niche route if not to look for something peaceful thats also more accessible?

 

[peacefullyprepared]

what's your inspiration for this niche route if not to look for something peaceful thats also more accessible?

Definitely accessibility but as I said everything i have read has said it *is* peaceful, I just dont particularly care if for some reasons the dozens of books and dozens of articles I have read are incorrect. I believe it will be.

 

[Flubber]

@peacefullyprepared

Your methods were my 1st chosen method but I've since turned toward a different approach. Poisonous plants suck as Water Hemlock and Jimson Weed (Datura) are without doubt deadly as f*ck, it's just that the time between ingesting them and pushing up daisies could be MANY hours and likely to induce a lot of pain through convulsions.

But I may be wrong. If anyone here has survived a self-induced poisoning by plants, it'd be interesting to hear how it felt, what treatment was received and how it affects your life afterwards.

 

[peacefullyprepared]

@peacefullyprepared

Your methods were my 1st chosen method but I've since turned toward a different approach. Poisonous plants suck as Water Hemlock and Jimson Weed (Datura) are without doubt deadly as f*ck, it's just that the time between ingesting them and pushing up daisies could be MANY hours and likely to induce a lot of pain through convulsions.

But I may be wrong. If anyone here has survived a self-induced poisoning by plants, it'd be interesting to hear how it felt, what treatment was received and how it affects your life afterwards.

Well ive done some reading on that. Everything ive read even from the Cleveland clinic etc says that accidental ingestion of even tiny doses (eg a child eating a "pretty flower" or crops being dusted with rhizomes by wind) can cause fatality inducing symptoms within as little as fifteen minutes. Plus there is zero cure for hemlock poisoning the symptoms can be managed but there is not curative known to man. These articles are discussing tiny accidental doses of *one* of these plants not intentional larger doses of ore than one so I anticipate the potency will neuch higher. My Initial leaning is taking wild ginger (antiemetic) then 30ish minutes later a pretty large dose, keeping fresh leaves on hand to chew for immediate relief, say three to five or whatever of several steeped roots and leaves that have been bruised and crushed of jimsonweed (it is also a powerful hallucinogen that has been used in the past to induce altered states of consciousness and can be fatal in large doses), mayapple and hemlock. The combination and potency i can only imagine will act much more quickly as multiple central systems are attacked and humans domt typically maintain consciousness for hours on end during convulsions etc. There is also another one its above that is a paralytic that I suppose could also be woven in. Wild tobacco or whatever it was. Of course there is always willow bark that could be steeped taken and chewed before and as needed it has long been a pain reliever. Even if it does take "many hours", which just doesnt make sense logically when poison control advises death of accidental ingestion can occur nothing a couple to a few without intervention, plus the combination is well practically unheard of and on such large quantities. Also, again, the old books I found at the library of first hand stories describe the passing as peaceful as the person loses consciousnesses so even if there are ill effects I wont be conscious to feel them and none I have read have reported anything other than the person essentially losing consciousnesses or falling asleep amd never waking up. No ill effects have been reported. And indigenous people and our ancestors were wildly good record keepers when the difference between wild parsely and hemlock could be life and death peace and healing or pain. Again it is much more logical that this is suppression of ancient wisdom made by colonizers and capitalists that simply dont want us to k ow what we have available right in our own backyards for healing and assisted suicide. Theres zero income or reliance on systems in such a model. Especially with something as controversial ethically, spiritually and culturally as death (and costly economically and in human capital) the logic just dictates a simpler answer. Im not suggesting anyone buy into this without researching or follow blindly but I am suggesting thousands of years of data is pretty weighty compared to the "scientific and medical" advancements and warnings of the last, what 100 years?

 

[Flubber]

I see where you're coming from, my friend. You've clearly spent a lot of time & research on this subject and it seems like you have a fair amount of experience sampling the flesh of dangerous plants.

I find it really difficult to analyse your wall of text... i.e. everything is in one paragraph. Sorry but it's really difficult to break all of that down into meaningful snippets to which folk can reply. Just saying (no offense intended!!!).

 

[madameviolette]

Crucifixion as an ancient method but not peaceful at all.
Don't pay attention with this post, I'm just tired these days and I'm so silly, but my dark sense of humour is still here...

Not related but I always wondered why do Christians condemn suicide since Jesus led himself to crucifixion

Well ive done some reading on that. Everything ive read even from the Cleveland clinic etc says that accidental ingestion of even tiny doses (eg a child eating a "pretty flower" or crops being dusted with rhizomes by wind) can cause fatality inducing symptoms within as little as fifteen minutes. Plus there is zero cure for hemlock poisoning the symptoms can be managed but there is not curative known to man. These articles are discussing tiny accidental doses of *one* of these plants not intentional larger doses of ore than one so I anticipate the potency will neuch higher. My Initial leaning is taking wild ginger (antiemetic) then 30ish minutes later a pretty large dose, keeping fresh leaves on hand to chew for immediate relief, say three to five or whatever of several steeped roots and leaves that have been bruised and crushed of jimsonweed (it is also a powerful hallucinogen that has been used in the past to induce altered states of consciousness and can be fatal in large doses), mayapple and hemlock. The combination and potency i can only imagine will act much more quickly as multiple central systems are attacked and humans domt typically maintain consciousness for hours on end during convulsions etc. There is also another one its above that is a paralytic that I suppose could also be woven in. Wild tobacco or whatever it was. Of course there is always willow bark that could be steeped taken and chewed before and as needed it has long been a pain reliever. Even if it does take "many hours", which just doesnt make sense logically when poison control advises death of accidental ingestion can occur nothing a couple to a few without intervention, plus the combination is well practically unheard of and on such large quantities. Also, again, the old books I found at the library of first hand stories describe the passing as peaceful as the person loses consciousnesses so even if there are ill effects I wont be conscious to feel them and none I have read have reported anything other than the person essentially losing consciousnesses or falling asleep amd never waking up. No ill effects have been reported. And indigenous people and our ancestors were wildly good record keepers when the difference between wild parsely and hemlock could be life and death peace and healing or pain. Again it is much more logical that this is suppression of ancient wisdom made by colonizers and capitalists that simply dont want us to k ow what we have available right in our own backyards for healing and assisted suicide. Theres zero income or reliance on systems in such a model. Especially with something as controversial ethically, spiritually and culturally as death (and costly economically and in human capital) the logic just dictates a simpler answer. Im not suggesting anyone buy into this without researching or follow blindly but I am suggesting thousands of years of data is pretty weighty compared to the "scientific and medical" advancements and warnings of the last, what 100 years?

Interesting, how does this poison work in the body ? Is it like hypoxic, ischemic ? cardiotoxic ?

 

[MicahBell]

Hi there. Ive been going through posts and aside from the more violent approaches it seems like there is a lot of difficulty sourcing the items needed to choose to exit peacefully. I am in indiana and there are several plants that have been used by indigenous peoples to ease and facilitate passing such as black cohosh, mayapple (American mandrake), poison water hemlock, wild tobacco, jimsonweed and so on. It can be made into a death draught dry (as its fall) or fresh. It can even be sweetened with honey to be more palatable. Ethnobotanists have been reinvigorating these methods as palliative care techniques im curious if anyone has heard of anyone choosing truly natural means to end their time here? Im leaning toward jimsonroot (hallucinogen), hemlock and mayapple. The high level of potency of the poison shouldn't take much just thought id get se feedback.

unrelated, but i used to live in indiana too. its so bleak and boring and miserable it's probably the origin of my suicidal tendencies. i heard someone say "making friends in indiana is like trusting a public defender" ('T᷄⌑T᷅)

 

[peacefullyprepared]

unrelated, but i used to live in indiana too. its so bleak and boring and miserable it's probably the origin of my suicidal tendencies. i heard someone say "making friends in indiana is like trusting a public defender" ('T᷄⌑T᷅)

Hahahhaha you are not wrong but theres also that whole weird aggressive hospitality thing like "no really what wpuld you like to drink insist"

Not related but I always wondered why do Christians condemn suicide since Jesus led himself to crucifixion

Interesting, how does this poison work in the body ? Is it like hypoxic, ischemic ? cardiotoxic ?

Yeah Christianity is kind of whacked for that it was literal self sacrifice and chosen or assisted suicide is no different especially if its due to pain trauma illness burden (even if perceived etc). Anyway if you scroll up to the post from yesterday afternoon I think there are some notes about how the poison works its been a long day lol. The formatting is kind of off but the info is there im pretty sure if its not just let me know and ill gather it im just making my grandmother dinner so don't have the available hands to look I to it right this second but also don't want to keep you waiting