Actually, it usually does get better...

[EmptyArms]

Way to beat up @UpandDownPrincess folks. Good job.
As far as I am aware this forum is still pro choice, not pro suicide, although frankly you could be forgiven for making that assumption some days.
Pro choice must mean, by necessity, neither pro life nor pro death. No one bats an eyelid or gets offended if someone says things can't/wont ever get better, its impossible. And I understand why that is. However when, for balance, a member is moved to say you know what I'm feeling a little brighter, I see possibility for a change of direction no matter how slight and I want to share that with everyone, you berate her.
If you disagree that's fine, although I would urge caution in knocking the shit out of a suicidal person on a rare good day if you have a shred of human kindness left in your heart. Your tones of disgust, outrage and desire to banish any kind of view that is slightly at odds to your own is frankly very worrying to me, and in her shoes I think I would be feeling bullied.
I think it's this kind of behaviour could add to concern and unwanted negative attention from outside of this forum.
Nothing is perfect, there is always room for improvement. People should not feel afraid to voice optimism, as well as despair, except in a dark shameful corner for fear of offending. After all who knows who may have read the OPs post and felt a little inspired?

 

[SlackJim]

yeah the response to that on a suicide forum is always gonna be very heated, but yeah I agree, the key word is 'usually', and I think this refers more to mental than chronic or terminal physical illness.

I definitely indulge in catastrophic thinking, and I think most people here probably do to an extent.

remember people opinions are just opinions, they can't hurt you unless you let them

 

[Quarky00]

People should not feel afraid to voice optimism

I don't mind optimism -- I don't like being told what I feel .

There wasn't "a possibility for a change" -- which I would have welcomed -- but general crude assumptions.

This wasn't presented as OP personal view or suggestion for hope -- but how THEY VIEW US and WHAT TO DO. (read carefully)

It wasn't empathic to people's long-term pain.

People explained everything well, it's not that controversial.....

 

[Polly]

This wasn't presented as OP personal view or suggestion for hope -- but how THEY VIEW US and WHAT TO DO. (read carefully)

sorry if I got the quotes wrong

But yes, this, exactly.

The post explicitly stated that it was addressing the group and their feelings as a whole. I find this type of proselytizing offensive in general; I find it particularly disturbing when it challenges the basis which makes this a safe space.

 

[Secrets1]

sorry if I got the quotes wrong

But yes, this, exactly.

The post explicitly stated that it was addressing the group and their feelings as a whole. I find this type of proselytizing offensive in general; I find it particularly disturbing when it challenges the basis which makes this a safe space.

I think all this negativity is overly reactive. OP's wording wasn't perfect, it also wasn't inaccurate. She said "usually" which is correct for mental health and varies for physical. Better doesn't mean good or fantasyland. It doesn't mean there won't be major pitfalls in the future. It just means improvement compared to the past over the long run. How many in this group of suffering who don't commit suicide and improve will report back to describe their recovery stories?

So what, she made generalized comments and people responded only citing their own situations, not larger picture. Lots of us are suffocating in pain, it is difficult to think clearly about other perspectives under these circumstances. Me included. However I recognize there's plenty of truth to OP's post even if I don't feel it personally.

 

[Readytogo#Broken]

Every situation is different, Never have & never will follow any crowd or jump on a band wagon, but the "we" & "it will get better" is slightly patronising, a lot of people have taken courage to be here, the term ctb refers to stopping off for a chat before "catching your bus" if some people manage to turn their situation around that's fucking amazing & well done! but statements of Fact? Personally sick of hearing that from "medical professionals", every situation is different people come here to get away from that,
I'm sure it was meant with good intentions if your situation has Changed then well done you &hope you can inspire others & live a long & prosperous life
Jst pls remember some are here to get away from that, it takes courage to be here & it's kinda like rubbing salt in wounds. Great to have optimism & positivity just maybe there's some not feeling like reading it "will" get better today its a little patronising. Sorry no offence to OP I hope you recover & do well :)

 

[Secrets1]

but statements of Fact? Personally sick of hearing that from "medical professionals" ect, every situation is different people come here to get away from that...

Great to have optimism & positivity just maybe there's some not feeling like reading it "will" get better today its a little patronising.

I hear you...

statistically speaking in broad strokes for mental health evidence points to it being a statement of fact

people and their lives change considerably while on this board. There can be empathy without so much entitlement at the expense of other viewpoints. OP comes to this board for her own reasons and was tired of hearing such a singular, victimized viewpoint. Those reasons have likely changed over time as do the vast majority of SSr's. She expressed a logical, valid way to feel about this place at times and telling her to shut up makes it seem like people believe their life experience is more pertinent to this board than hers. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

life is a process, death is a process. So is the decision to choose one over the other.

It makes no sense that as a group we go to great efforts to ensure people ctb in an informed way, often encouraging them to exhaust other options, while shouting down a thread like this.

 

[Readytogo#Broken]

I hear you...

statistically speaking in broad strokes for mental health evidence points to it being a statement of fact

people and their lives change considerably while on this board. There can be empathy without so much entitlement at the expense of other viewpoints. OP comes to this board for her own reasons and was tired of hearing such a singular, victimized viewpoint. That's a logical, valid way to feel about this place at times and telling her to shut up makes it seem like people believe their life experience is more pertinent to this board than hers. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

life is a process, death is a process. So is the decision to choose one over the other

Not once have I told anyone to "shut up" I tried to respond to the positive outlook but also point out, some simply don't want to be told their situation will get better, makes people doubt intentions, it's a tough enough one to call, maybe it is better for some to hear it & maybe helps turns their situation around, personally felt no reason to state "WE" as a group every situation is different, this shouldn't go down the route of ganging up on anyone, which is why I commended the positive approach & simply pointed out my thoughts, if I wanted to be told it will get better id book a docs appointment.
If a person is intent on ending suffering whatever their situation I think it's a lot better to have this site,to make an informed descision rather than a hastily planned,messy approach, IF some turn their situation around in the process that's great, but no-one should be told things will get better as a statement of fact, that's shaming a person for even being here! But free speech will always be met with opinions that's all they are. Have a lovely day!!

 

[Quarky00]

@Secrets1 , I find the justification of "broad strokes for mental health" (!!) offensive . That 'statistics' is not just a view , but an actual trauma IRL for many . Can you understand that? Mental health pitfalls?

people resent the way society (therapists public helplines pro-lifers) treats us and our thoughts, in ways that are not attentive, empathic, or caring. And that's what happened here.

Member was asked (in other threads as well) to show more respect to pain (just like I'm asking you) -- why do you claim "told to shut up"? I hope that's not your "logical valid way":) Because it's not true. This is not semantics. Freedom of expression is a sad excuse: share your view but be thoughtful. Sorry. You should know better.

You can write that life is amazing and that most people overcome suicide -- but don't tell people how they feel , or that they're part of 'mental health statistics'. That's kinda disgusting. Your persistence is peculiar.

'Informed ctb' is an active cause here and ctbs stopped every day. It is already practiced. This is not the case of OP. Said members are "spiraling" into "catastrophe" :) OP entitled to opinion. Do you understand that opinion presented that way is offensive in a pro-choice discussion?

Shouldn't we be more sensitive when criticizing people that are about to end their life?

 

[Shero]

When things usually get better, I'm the exception.

 

[Secrets1]

@Secrets1 , I find the justification of "broad strokes for mental health" offensive . That 'statistics' is not just a view , but an actual trauma IRL for many . Can you understand that? Mental health pitfalls?

Member was asked several times (in other threads as well) to show more respect to pain (just like I'm asking you) -- why do you claim "told to shut up"?
I hope that's not a "logical valid way" of having an honest discussion :) Because it's not true.

'Informed ctb' is an active cause here and ctbs stopped every day. It is already practiced. This is not the case of the OP. Said members are "spiraling" into "catastrophe" :) OP entitled to opinion. Do you understand how that opinion presented that way is offensive in a pro-choice discussion?

Shouldn't we be more sensitive when criticizing people that are about to end their life?

I can understand all of that perfectly. It just doesn't apply to everyone. This viewpoint belongs in recovery and on this board if it's really about choice. Her words were not perfect for everyone's sensitivities, doesn't discount validity of the main message.

To debate semantics, no one said "shut up" that's correct. It's clearly the message sent to OP regarding this viewpoint on this board. Describe it how you want literally or figuratively

 

[Readytogo#Broken]

I can understand all of that perfectly. It just doesn't apply to everyone. This viewpoint belongs in recovery and on this board if it's really about choice. Her words were not perfect for everyone's sensitivities, doesn't discount validity of the main message.

To debate semantics, no one said "shut up" that's correct. It's clearly the message sent to OP regarding this viewpoint on this board. Describe it how you want literally or figuratively

I commend the OP, well done not going to continue in case it's any way offensive to the person, not here to knock anyone down, simply hate referring to everyone as "WE" as though it's a just process & that things just get better! it's like being told to wise up. Get on with it, some simply don't feel that way. I think everyone's feeling different & all are entitled to their opinions, some may disagree but not to the point of anyone being victimised, not into that at all, nobody will agree with opinions that's all they are, Neither should anyone have to read things just get better, it knocks people down for even being here. It's a last resort coming here, some don't want to read that, it's my opinion

 

[Quarky00]

@Secrets1 , asked to be kind your reply is "This viewpoint belongs in recovery"? How empathic. You reaffirm fears that there is no kindness in recovery .

I take a deep breath and remember there are real human beings here (rather than just "viewpoints")

 

[Secrets1]

@Secrets1 , asked to be kind your reply is "This viewpoint belongs in recovery"? How empathic. You reaffirm fears that there is no kindness in recovery .

I take a deep breath and remember there are real human beings here (rather than just "viewpoints")

Truthfully, I don't understand every point you're trying to make. It's over my head. No kindness in recovery is a distorted fear. I'm genuinely sorry that bad life experiences with guidance in this area have lead you to this conclusion. Sometimes to receive kindness one needs to be open to it which can be difficult given the struggles of people on SS. I acknowledge the pain, I've felt it and do.

my personal trauma with the healthcare system has to be very high on most subjective scales. I haven't received consistent great care post trauma however I've experienced a lot of kindness along the way that has helped me in recovery regarding specific issues. It's very much out there. This has bought me extra time on earth, good + bad experiences, recurring contemplation. Doesn't have to be an all or nothing game, that's just not life.

 

[Readytogo#Broken]

Truthfully, I don't understand every point you're trying to make. It's over my head. No kindness in recovery is a distorted fear. I'm genuinely sorry that bad life experiences with guidance in this area have lead you to this conclusion. Sometimes to receive kindness one needs to be open to it which can be difficult given the struggles of people on SS. I acknowledge the pain, I've felt it and do.

my personal trauma with the healthcare system has to be very high on most subjective scales. I haven't received consistent great care post trauma however I've experienced a lot of kindness along the way that has helped me in recovery regarding specific issues. It's very much out there. This has bought me extra time on earth, good + bad experiences, recurring contemplation. Doesn't have to be an all or nothing game, that's just not life.

I hope things work out for you & OP whatever your choice ends up, wish no ill will to anyone take care

 

[BPD Barbie]

At what point do we decide its the lowest it can ever get? There are no guidelines for this, no medical chart that says you can't go any lower. For some, maybe there is some light and I'm sure for some things do get better, buts it's not the case for everyone and we shouldn't generalise. The feeling of being actively suicidal isn't one that someone can just give you a pat on the back for, read some inosirational quotes and you'll feel better type feeling. It's deep seated and deep routed within us.

 

[Bandzbandz]

For me, it didn't get better. It was more a case of I got tired of my own shit so I decided to live for my special needs brother and partner. I am a person that has a lot of potential and a lot to lose, it would have been a shame to not give life a try... At least for now.

 

[protonic76]

thank u for saying what u said @EmptyArms

keep ur hope up @UpandDownPrincess - very good adviec indeed . recently i have started conversation with a semi ex-member here who is very positive in helping me out . there are all sorts of people here . dont feel bad about people who gave u the angry look

 

[Inferdan]

First, there's no fixed lowest. Shit can keep getting progressively worst in ways you didn't anticipate. Second, even if there's nowhere to go but up, that doesn't mean things will go at all. They can stay shitty indefinitely, or bounce back and forth. You might wake up tomorrow not suicidal at all, and the day after, but the day after that you'd be as suicidal as ever, and so what, did it get better?

Seeing as I've hit at least 4 rock-bottoms in my life, each lower than the next, I can confirm, there is no bottom.

I know that we've all heard it "it will get better." It's easy to say and for us, it's just as easy to scoff at and ignore.

But, in addition to being helpful, this is a no-bullshit kind of place. It's time to call it out and say it usually WILL get better.

Yeah, yeah... but hear me out.

If you are truly at your lowest ebb, it can only get better. There's nowhere to go but up. It's a fact.

What we think of as "better" is too much to expect from anyone, anytime. Many times we say that things cannot get better but what we mean is that things cannot get to the way we envision. We're not looking for just better, we're looking for good, or great, or happy. But that's not what they said. They only offered that it will get better. Better than the depths of hell, better than I wish I was dead, better than feeling the universe is against you. It's not much, but it's all they're promising. Nobody expected me to jump out of my psych ward bed and run a marathon, write a book or any of the other things I've always wanted to do.

How many of our folks have posted on these threads how happy they are to have received their method in the mail? Plenty. Its why most suicides happen not at someone's lowest but when they just start to show signs of recovery. They've finally got some energy, they finally feel a purpose. There's a reason to get out of bed, even of the reason is to plan to ctb.

I'm posting this because I feel like the board is in a bit of a downward spiral lately and we've been indulging in a bit of catastrophic thinking. Lots of people here will be gone soon but others will remain. Why? Because being here is better for them. Better than lots of other feelings, lots of other days, lots of other people to talk to. It's not perfect. It may not be good. It may be just a holding pattern. But it's better than something.

 

[SinisterKid]

Too many good points raised in this thread to address them all. For context: I have to take some responsibility for the nature of some comments here. The thread was originally posted in the Suicide Discussion forum and I moved it into Recovery after a lot of comments had already been made. So the thread has appeared in both sections and I think this is reflected in the responses to it. I possibly should have made that clear at some point? So my apologies for that.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

IMO the rock bottom myth comes from the common observation of people who need a sort of wake up call; their modes of being need to crash and burn completely before the motives for change become strong enough for them; this is often the case with addictions, for example a smoker getting lung cancer, an alcoholic losing his family, etc ...

The thinking of the type "it can only go up from here on out", and so on, is, on the other hand, wrong and it can probably always get worse. I mean someone who has a Burnout can get cancer; someone with burnout and cancer can become unemployed, his family could leave him, he could become a heroin addict, a civil war could break out, he could become subjected to human trafficking or be tortured to death by a terrorist organization.

 

[Journeytoletgo]

Thanks for you post. But things only get worse for many, depending on your circumstances. For myself as I been struggling with depression since the age of 14, it never gets better and depression stays with you as long as you're alive. Yes there are some days you may feel what you remember as "normal" level headed whatever but then the next day could be the day you wake up and you're crying for no reason, contemplating your end, it gets better but then what? The possibility of it getting bad again and then suffering for another 60+ years like this on/and/off or to end it within 1 year or 2 or the next month hour or day. Is the suffering worth it? If you feel the suffering emotionally is worth it and life is worth fighting for then go for it, for those like me who see no point in suffering emotionally in torment then living less is tolerable and worth it. I believe in quality of life not quantity of life. So that's my take

 

[decafcoffee]

the interesting thing is nobody can escape death, even if they want to live. so pro-lifers can fucking chill.

 

[Saroshi]

Hmm. I don't suggest reading my rising up again, because I feel it is self indulgent.

I haven't been on here in a month, and my despair has withered back to boredom and idleness. Not from my absence, it was a mix of watching people grow up, trying to hone my art skills, getting caught up in a web of people, I'm lucky. I didn't actively pursue happiness exactly, I just flowed out of my spell. I don't know. Things have the potential to get better sometimes? My lack of caring circled back to not caring about depression, which I think is funny.

 

[HadEnough1974]

I know that we've all heard it "it will get better." It's easy to say and for us, it's just as easy to scoff at and ignore.

But, in addition to being helpful, this is a no-bullshit kind of place. It's time to call it out and say it usually WILL get better.

Yeah, yeah... but hear me out.

If you are truly at your lowest ebb, it can only get better. There's nowhere to go but up. It's a fact.

What we think of as "better" is too much to expect from anyone, anytime. Many times we say that things cannot get better but what we mean is that things cannot get to the way we envision. We're not looking for just better, we're looking for good, or great, or happy. But that's not what they said. They only offered that it will get better. Better than the depths of hell, better than I wish I was dead, better than feeling the universe is against you. It's not much, but it's all they're promising. Nobody expected me to jump out of my psych ward bed and run a marathon, write a book or any of the other things I've always wanted to do.

How many of our folks have posted on these threads how happy they are to have received their method in the mail? Plenty. Its why most suicides happen not at someone's lowest but when they just start to show signs of recovery. They've finally got some energy, they finally feel a purpose. There's a reason to get out of bed, even of the reason is to plan to ctb.

I'm posting this because I feel like the board is in a bit of a downward spiral lately and we've been indulging in a bit of catastrophic thinking. Lots of people here will be gone soon but others will remain. Why? Because being here is better for them. Better than lots of other feelings, lots of other days, lots of other people to talk to. It's not perfect. It may not be good. It may be just a holding pattern. But it's better than something.

I hear what you're saying, I think it "can" get better or it "might" get better is more appropriate than it "does" get better.

And the reality for some is that it won't get better. It might get worse. It's the reality.

Although I do hope for everyone that it does get better, I remain optimistic for everyone here.

 

[Smashingairwaves]

How do you know it can't get worse though? There can always be something worse that pops up.

Even if it does get better, is it really worth it to go through so much badness for a chance at a tiny sliver of happiness?

Cause it really doesn't feel like it

 

[ReadyToFly]

Maybe for you... but it's never once gotten better for me unless I was high on painkillers and falling asleep then sure but that's just me.. I do hope it gets better for others .. I e just reached my limit I can't take it anymore

 

[decafcoffee]

we oughta poll the members and ask who here is glad they havent killed themselves yet

 

[SinisterKid]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sanctionedsuicide-survey-results-november-2019.25280/

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

For me and my condition, or at least the one I had been formally diagnosed with, I spend several months or weeks at 'rock bottom' then without much warning I bounce back feel better, sometimes fantastic, for maybe almost as long, then just as quickly I'm back at rock bottom again, maybe worse. I'm sick of feeling like I'm a yo-yo. It feels like a real piss take to be shown happiness then to be thrust back into shit again. I hate being depressed but I hate the false promise of optimism far more.

This is exactly me when I deviate first more than a day or two from my dietary and medication regimen. When it's bad it feels like "Fuck, back here again. Time to get back on track. Where are my suicide supplies? Gotta hurry up and get this assembled before the window closes again." Then when it's better again it's "Damn, I missed the window. I guess I'll hang onto these for when it returns. Please please please let me stay up here."