Venting Absolutely unbelievable situation with mental health services

[BipolarGuy]

I have been trying to access mental health support for years - ELEVEN YEARS.

I have made several complaints over those 11 years because various things have happened.
For instance being put on medication that made me worse. A medication I later found out has contraindications in bipolar.
Leaving me on a waiting list for 18 months with no contact, then removing me from the waiting list even though I hadn't seen anyone because my treatment had concluded!
etc

Finally I got fed up with going round in circles for 11 years with my local mental health trust, so I asked for something called an out of area referral - a referral to a mental health service elsewhere in the country.

I've seen my GP's referral to them, and I am SHOCKED!

In the referral letter, my GP says:

- Local mental health services are refusing to engage with me because I keep complaining.
No, I regularly speak to mental health services, including my care coordinator. But treatment is so poor that I've asked to go elsewhere now, after 11 years.

- I'm refusing to take medication.
Again not true. What I'm refusing is to be left on the starting dose for several months, even though the psychiatrist instructed my care coordinator to organise a medicine review within 4 weeks of starting the medication, on the starting dose.

- That I'm currently "euthymic".
Totally the opposite!

- That I take overdoses in response to the poor mental health treatment I perceive that I have been in receipt of.
If I had received better treatment 11 years ago then maybe I wouldn't feel like this, but I don't take overdoses as some kind of tantrum.
I've only taken 2 overdoses, besides. Once in 2009, and once in March 2019.

- The therapeutic relationship between me and my local mental health trust has broken down.
True, because they're so crap!

- That I only perceive that I've been in receipt of poor treatment due to having bipolar.
Where do I even start on this?!



I just can't believe it!
I honestly can't fucking believe it!

I didn't mention everything, just the main points I remember. But he's made me out to be some kind of trouble maker basically because I've had the balls over 11 years to stand up and point out that local services are crap.

He did not mention why I'm being referred at all: to seek a diagnosis, to engage in therapy, etc .....?

How crap can things be?



EDIT: As stated in a post below (number 15), I have never even met my GP who wrote this letter!

 

[TheQ22]

The NHS is a joke, poorly run with poor staff who all cover their own arses first above all else.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Is this the NHS?

 

[whywere]

HI! I am wondering if you are in the UK? I am in the U.S. and believe me we have private insurance over and it is garbage. Now with that said I am 64 years young, 2 suicide attempts, massive depression, bi polar, border line personality disorder, basically the works and I have had nothing but HELL as far as getting help also. I truly feel for you as we are the same.. I have been to so many different places and have been kicked out of EVERY one. Reasons, just like yours and then some. At least in the U.S., I feel it is so money motivated that it is a sad joke. When I read your post, I was like WOW that is me! I truly wish you the best in happiness, love, peace and the knowledge that everyone of us on sanctioned suicide are global family members with love, caring and wanting the best for ALL of us. Love and peace my great global family member!

 

[DyingAlf]

Yep that sounds like the typical NHS mental health b.s.
sorry you've had to go through all that!

 

[schopenh]

When I saw the title I figured that everything you were about to say was going to be completely believable and fairly typical, and it was. Sorry you're going through this. I often say that most (not all) of healthcare are soulless golems that are not up for the task at hand and they just keep going to pay their mortgages etc. They barely care about you if you don't have a trivial or well understood problem and aren't also extremely well-behaved and don't contradict them ever.
Kind of lame hearing that my relatives think their doctors are wonderful for giving them a 'fob off' referal for a x-ray, knowing full well it's unlikely to show anything for the symptoms being described.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Is this the NHS?

Yes NHS.

Apologies for late reply. I've been talking to a friend about this over the phone and she cannot believe it.
I read the letter out to her and she said she doesn't know what to say.

 

[Aeathelina]

I can't speak for European health care as an U.S citizen. But it saddens me its the same across the pond.
Where I live atm is absolute garbage and honestly I feel like being dead is easier than getting treatment if you don't have $$$$

 

[Emily_Numb]

I'm in the UK and have BPD. I've been off and on medication for 20 years. I have only ever been referred to the Crisis team once in the time which was this year. I was under the care of the MH team until they decided to let me go for being uncontactable for a week. I learned very early on that no one can actually help you and the sooner you come to terms with that, the better things will be.

What do you actually want from the NHS/Mental health team? You seem very upset by it all but what do you want them to actually do?

 

[BipolarGuy]

I can't speak for European health care as an U.S citizen. But it saddens me its the same across the pond.
Where I live atm is absolute garbage and honestly I feel like being dead is easier than getting treatment if you don't have $$$$

Yep, totally useless.

I've spoken with a friend about it, and the only logical (if somewhat twisted) reason we can think of for my GP doing this is this:

NHS patients have a right to choose where they receive their care.
Most people never think about this because they're happy to receive their care from the closest, most convenient service.
But because of the treatment (or lack of) that I've had, I've decided to exercise this legal right.
The GP service or local Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) can't refuse, because that would be denying me my legal right!
....BUT....if I were referred out of area, my local CCG would have to pay another health trust to provide a service to one of its patients (i.e. me).
Now most people would ask "what's the issue with that?", and I quite agree.
Anyway, my GP had spoken directly to the local CCG in order to get permission to make an out of area referral.
In my own conversation with my GP, he repeatedly said that even though I have that legal right, it is up to the service I'm being referred to to accept the referral.
In short, are they going ahead with the referral (on paper) to not deny me my legal right of choice, but in reality have written me a absurd and untrue referral letter so that it is incredibly likely that my referral will be refused by the other service - in this way the CCG will get out of having to pay for out of area treatment, along with my travel costs...!

Sounds conspiracy I know, but this is EXACTLY the kind of political game playing that goes on.

I'm in the UK and have BPD. I've been off and on medication for 20 years. I have only ever been referred to the Crisis team once in the time which was this year. I was under the care of the MH team until they decided to let me go for being uncontactable for a week. I learned very early on that no one can actually help you and the sooner you come to terms with that, the better things will be.

What do you actually want from the NHS/Mental health team? You seem very upset by it all but what do you want them to actually do?

It's interesting because I've given up anyway and have been planning my suicide, which I plan to go ahead with, but in principle....

I would expect the following:

- To be put on medication (preferably one that doesn't have contraindications in people with my condition).
- For the dosage to be managed over time, and not just left on the starting dose for several months.
- To be able to talk through the issues I have had throughout my life thoroughly so that I can explore, with a psychologist, how experiences may have effected me.
- Given these experiences and the issues I have now, therapy to overcome them.

 

[TheQ22]

A little known fact about GP surgeries is that they are allocated £X million each per year by the govt to provide healthcare.

The partners (i.e. senior doctors and other staff appointed as partners) "own" the surgery.

At the end of the year, any surplus money does not go back into the NHS pot, it gets divvied up between the partners as a reward for doing such a sterling, within budget job.

Therefore, it makes sense to provide the minimum healthcare possible, at the lowest cost, in order to pocket the maximum bonus.

 

[BipolarGuy]

A little known fact about GP surgeries is that they are allocated £X million each per year by the govt to provide healthcare.

The partners (i.e. senior doctors and other staff appointed as partners) "own" the surgery.

At the end of the year, any surplus money does not go back into the NHS pot, it gets divvied up between the partners as a reward for doing such a sterling, within budget job.

Therefore, it makes sense to provide the minimum healthcare possible, at the lowest cost, in order to pocket the maximum bonus.

I never knew that!

 

[Passerby]

Funny you should say that my ex wanted to try some NHS doctor & patient role play,
So i made her wait a few months for a phone call then prescribed her some random anti depressants and told her good luck in life.

 

[TheQ22]

I never knew that!

I only know because my best friends mother and cousin worked for one and they'd been there years. My best friend also got a job there, and his wife was a nurse there.

The old doctors had made his mum and cousin partners, but when they retired the new doctors in charge didn't like office underlings getting a cut of the money, so reported them to the NHS fraud squad for allegedly stealing (embezelling) money from the surgery.

They went through an entire Police investigation, court, the works. And were found not guilty because the twats made it all up to get them out the door so there was more money for them. The court case in the end lasted about 20 minutes before the judge threw it out, but the build up to it took about 3 years or more.

All 4 of them lost their livlihoods, and his mum and cousin were paraded in the press as thieves - even though they weren't.

I told him, you should have gone to the press with what you knew - like when a cleaner walked into the store room and found one of the docs pleasuring himself.

Sadly, as is often the case - he had too much integirty to do that to them.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I only know because my best friends mother and cousin worked for one and they'd been there years. My best friend also got a job there, and his wife was a nurse there.

The old doctors had made his mum and cousin partners, but when they retired the new doctors in charge didn't like office underlings getting a cut of the money, so reported them to the NHS fraud squad for allegedly stealing (embezelling) money from the surgery.

They went through an entire Police investigation, court, the works. And were found not guilty because the twats made it all up to get them out the door so there was more money for them. The court case in the end lasted about 20 minutes before the judge threw it out, but the build up to it took about 3 years or more.

All 4 of them lost their livlihoods, and his mum and cousin were paraded in the press as thieves - even though they weren't.

I told him, you should have gone to the press with what you knew - like when a cleaner walked into the store room and found one of the docs pleasuring himself.

Sadly, as is often the case - he had too much integirty to do that to them.

Wow!
Surprising what goes on. Things that most people wouldn't even think about.

I think my post above, #10, is the most likely reason why a totally bogus and untrue referral letter has been written.

To make it even weirder.....I've actually never even met my GP....!

 

[sufferingalways]

Yep, totally useless.

I've spoken with a friend about it, and the only logical (if somewhat twisted) reason we can think of for my GP doing this is this:

NHS patients have a right to choose where they receive their care.
Most people never think about this because they're happy to receive their care from the closest, most convenient service.
But because of the treatment (or lack of) that I've had, I've decided to exercise this legal right.
The GP service or local Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) can't refuse, because that would be denying me my legal right!
....BUT....if I were referred out of area, my local CCG would have to pay another health trust to provide a service to one of its patients (i.e. me).
Now most people would ask "what's the issue with that?", and I quite agree.
Anyway, my GP had spoken directly to the local CCG in order to get permission to make an out of area referral.
In my own conversation with my GP, he repeatedly said that even though I have that legal right, it is up to the service I'm being referred to to accept the referral.
In short, are they going ahead with the referral (on paper) to not deny me my legal right of choice, but in reality have written me a absurd and untrue referral letter so that it is incredibly likely that my referral will be refused by the other service - in this way the CCG will get out of having to pay for out of area treatment, along with my travel costs...!

Sounds conspiracy I know, but this is EXACTLY the kind of political game playing that goes on.


It's interesting because I've given up anyway and have been planning my suicide, which I plan to go ahead with, but in principle....

I would expect the following:

- To be put on medication (preferably one that doesn't have contraindications in people with my condition).
- For the dosage to be managed over time, and not just left on the starting dose for several months.
- To be able to talk through the issues I have had throughout my life thoroughly so that I can explore, with a psychologist, how experiences may have effected me.
- Given these experiences and the issues I have now, therapy to overcome them.

Hi I'm so sorry to hear about your experience with NHS (crappy) services, my experience with a Care Coordinator from local CMHT has been rubbish too. (Ive made ip my own Acronym for her , )

She committed libel, ive got in writing a Care Plan she wrote without any input from me (i found out this is a breach of her job description) and she has lied on this Care Plan about various things including the date she wrote it. For example her boss only prodded her to write one after a phone call from a friend asking why 3 months after she started "working " with me still no Care Plan.
The care plan should have been dated honestly.. in October .. , but nope she lied and put August.

I sympathise with you, these people are a JOKE! This one was all sweetness to my face then lied about me and what was alleged on this care plan somehow got me REMOVED from the service. I hate that girl. Ill sue her once i find a lawyer willing.

I hope you get a result that you can live with. Yours sounds like a nightmare too. Wish the stupid ones could be kicked off and they be reported to the "Disclosure and Barring Service." Eg they are Not fit to work with vulnerable people.

 

[TheQ22]

Wow!
Surprising what goes on. Things that most people wouldn't even think about.

I think my post above, #10, is the most likely reason why a totally bogus and untrue referral letter has been written.

To make it even weirder.....I've actually never even met my GP....!

There are more fiddles going on than there are in the London philharmonic.

Another is one that rich (landowners) use - if a river flows through their property they own the water from the point it enters their land until it leaves.

If a river flows alongside their property they own the river to the mid point.

Rather than allowing water companies to suck up the water themselves at a minimal cost, the land owner can pay an annual fee for a water abstraction license (the more water you plan on taking, the more it costs, it used to be a flat fee up to about £20K or £30K per year, it might be based on how much they take now), and they can then suck up rain water to their hearts content and sell it to the water companies, netting a profit per year of £Hundreds of thousand or £millions.

Obviously the cost is passed onto us plebs by the water companies.

Land owners were up in arms when the cost structure changed because it was "costing" them £100's thousands a year (or rather they were making £Hundreds thousands less profit - not a real cost).

 

[BipolarGuy]

There are more fiddles going on than there are in the London philharmonic.

Another is one that rich (landowners) use - if a river flows through their property they own the water from the point it enters their land until it leaves.

If a river flows alongside their property they own the river to the mid point.

Rather than allowing water companies to suck up the water themselves at a minimal cost, the land owner can pay an annual fee for a water abstraction license (the more water you plan on taking, the more it costs, it used to be a flat fee up to about £20K or £30K per year, it might be based on how much they take now), and they can then suck up rain water to their hearts content and sell it to the water companies, netting a profit per year of £Hundreds of thousand or £millions.

Obviously the cost is passed onto us plebs by the water companies.

Land owners were up in arms when the cost structure changed because it was "costing" them £100's thousands a year (or rather they were making £Hundreds thousands less profit - not a real cost).

I'm too straight for this world.
In order to fit in or do well in this world you have to be completely bent and/or play dirty political games.

If you're a pure sociopath, you'll rise to the very top.

 

[sufferingalways]

I never knew that!

Neither did I, thanks for the insight!

 

[TheQ22]

I'm too straight for this world.
In order to fit in or do well in this world you have to be completely bent and/or play dirty political games.

If you're a pure sociopath, you'll rise to the very top.

Your charity you mentioned before is a prime example. Manage to raise c.£500k per year by themselves after costs, but get £250 million from the govt to provide "job training".

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Local mental health services are refusing to engage with me because I keep complaining.

That I take overdoses in response to the poor mental health treatment I perceive that I have been in receipt of

The therapeutic relationship between me and my local mental health trust has broken down

That I only perceive that I've been in receipt of poor treatment due to having bipolar

This seems to me typical how GPs treat people, and especially people with mental health issues. Absolutely appalling.

Basically all the blame has been shifted to your side, and your view of things has been invalidated and reduced to a merely subjective interpretation due an imbalanced state of mind.
It strikes me as a power play by the GP, and you've been dehumanized and delegitimized by a medical authority's objectifying 'gaze' (to use foucault's term).

I've had this treatment before when I was referred to someone by a GP. The GP (who I'd never even met before, just phoning) basically just wrote that I had a personality disorder (based on a questionable assessment a psychiatrist made 15 years ago which must still be on my medical records) along with depression etc, and that I was basically making up the fact that GPs were making it hard for me to access a specialist (which they were, since I'd spoken to numerous GPs, none of whom seemed bothered about me).

Instead of writing anything currently relevant to my situation, they just dismissed me as basically a nobody with a personality disorder. I felt totally crushed and dehumanized.

I can't fucking wait to die so I get out of this system
It's all a trap, the whole thing.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Your charity you mentioned before is a prime example. Manage to raise c.£500k per year by themselves after costs, but get £250 million from the govt to provide "job training".

Oh yes that 'charity' I was referred to, that claims to be able to offer this and that and "look how wonderful we are".
Turns out that if your training course costs more than a few hundred £, they won't fund it.
Turned out to be a bit useless for several reasons.

Yes, I think it was you who went away and looked at their accounts?

This seems to me typical how GPs treat people, and especially people with mental health issues. Absolutely appalling.

Basically all the blame has been shifted to your side, and your view of things has been invalidated and reduced to a merely subjective interpretation due an imbalanced state of mind.
It strikes me as a power play by the GP, and you've been dehumanized and delegitimized by a medical authority's objectifying 'gaze' (to use foucault's term).

I've had this treatment before when I was referred to someone by a GP. The GP (who I'd never even met before) basically just wrote that I had a personality disorder (based on a questionable assessment a psychiatrist made 15 years ago which must still be on my medical records) along with depression etc. Instead of writing anything currently relevant to my situation, they just dismissed me as basically a nobody with a personality disorder. I felt totally crushed and dehumanized.

I can't fucking wait to die so I get out of this system

It's funny isn't it...make perfectly legitimate comments about the quality of service and all of a sudden YOU are a trouble maker.
Typical in all public services to be fair, not just the health service.

 

[TheQ22]

It was indeed me, and... I'll PM you in a minute.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

In short, are they going ahead with the referral (on paper) to not deny me my legal right of choice, but in reality have written me a absurd and untrue referral letter so that it is incredibly likely that my referral will be refused by the other service - in this way the CCG will get out of having to pay for out of area treatment, along with my travel costs...!

Sounds conspiracy I know, but this is EXACTLY the kind of political game playing that goes on

This doesn't seem beyond the bounds of possibility.

When it comes don to it, everything is about power and money. The hippocratic oath and such fables are just meaningless idealistic documents with no grounding in the cynicism and self-interestedness of human nature.

 

[TheQ22]

This doesn't seem beyond the bounds of possibility.

When it comes don to it, everything is about power and money. The hippocratic oath and such fables are just meaningless idealistic documents with no grounding in the cynicism and self-interestedness of human nature.

Yes. I remember watching an episode of question time, it might have been a snippet on YT> A girl who was going to medical school was arguing that her education should be free, because she was more important because she would be saving lives and was therefore more important than the little people.

I suppose she'd have changed her mind if the guys who grew the food refused to provide it to her, or the people who make sure the water is safe had stopped making hers safe, or the guys who produce the electricity to keep her warm had gone awol, or the IT guys who gave her the computer systems had stopped working, or the guys who fixed her car, or invented the car, or made the surgical tools, or the drugs, or etc..

But no - because in her head - she was more important, more intelligent, and the things she needed to do her job - well they were all made by plebs who should pay for their education.

Money, money, money.....

 

[checkouttime]

NHS patients have a right to choose where they receive their care.

Did you know you can actually ask to be seen privately! They cannot refuse tit either, now what can happen is your doctor will refuse having you on their books. I think you can get away with it from what i was told a few times.


I didn't but had a complaint about back pain, NHS physio said i would just have to live with it, and what did i want from them! I said erm i wasn't an MRI. ONLY because i had spent £1000 on private chiropractor and they had written letters to my doctor was i allowed a scan. I was seen and guess what, trapped nerve on my spine......I know my body better than some arsehole,couldn't care less physio!!! and so did the people i payed privately!!!

This wasn't the 1st or last problem i've had with NHS!!

My sister is a nurse and works her arse off, she was actually part of the reason i got looked at for another problem. shouldn't have to be that way at all!!!

 

[BipolarGuy]

Did you know you can actually ask to be seen privately! They cannot refuse tit either, now what can happen is your doctor will refuse having you on their books. I think you can get away with it from what i was told a few times.


I didn't but had a complaint about back pain, NHS physio said i would just have to live with it, and what did i want from them! I said erm i wasn't an MRI. ONLY because i had spent £1000 on private chiropractor and they had written letters to my doctor was i allowed a scan. I was seen and guess what, trapped nerve on my spine......I know my body better than some arsehole,couldn't care less physio!!! and so did the people i payed privately!!!

This wasn't the 1st or last problem i've had with NHS!!

My sister is a nurse and works her arse off, she was actually part of the reason i got looked at for another problem. shouldn't have to be that way at all!!!

Oh well of course, if you want to (and are able) to be seen privately, that's none of the business of your GP or anyone else to interfere.

Unfortunately I cannot afford it, though.

 

[TheQ22]

Did you know you can actually ask to be seen privately! They cannot refuse tit either, now what can happen is your doctor will refuse having you on their books. I think you can get away with it from what i was told a few times.


I didn't but had a complaint about back pain, NHS physio said i would just have to live with it, and what did i want from them! I said erm i wasn't an MRI. ONLY because i had spent £1000 on private chiropractor and they had written letters to my doctor was i allowed a scan. I was seen and guess what, trapped nerve on my spine......I know my body better than some arsehole,couldn't care less physio!!! and so did the people i payed privately!!!

This wasn't the 1st or last problem i've had with NHS!!

My sister is a nurse and works her arse off, she was actually part of the reason i got looked at for another problem. shouldn't have to be that way at all!!!

I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that it's a bit like becoming a civil servant - once you've got your seat on the gravy train you want to make sure you keep it and not risk it by rocking the boat.

One thing that always sticks in my mind is from a guy talking about being a journalist for a major organisation, he said once you get there and you've got your nice solid income you need to become absolutely average or mediocre - no more, no less. Because if you stray from that you lose your job.

So you get your foot in the door, and then you make sure you keep it there by just doing enough to keep what you have.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Did you know you can actually ask to be seen privately! They cannot refuse tit either, now what can happen is your doctor will refuse having you on their books. I think you can get away with it from what i was told a few times.


I didn't but had a complaint about back pain, NHS physio said i would just have to live with it, and what did i want from them! I said erm i wasn't an MRI. ONLY because i had spent £1000 on private chiropractor and they had written letters to my doctor was i allowed a scan. I was seen and guess what, trapped nerve on my spine......I know my body better than some arsehole,couldn't care less physio!!! and so did the people i payed privately!!!

This wasn't the 1st or last problem i've had with NHS!!

My sister is a nurse and works her arse off, she was actually part of the reason i got looked at for another problem. shouldn't have to be that way at all!!!

So is your back better now, did you get it fixed?

 

[checkouttime]

Oh well of course, if you want to (and are able) to be seen privately, that's none of the business of your GP or anyone else to interfere.

Unfortunately I cannot afford it, though.

no, what i was saying is you can request through the NHS to be seen private!!!! I didn't know it ,but had a friend that told me about it when i had a problem.

the last part of my topic, was a bit misleading. it was just an example of crap NHS!! I couldn't afford Private healthcare, even if i did pay privately for a chiropractor. if that makes sense.