Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,279
yeah, but how can someone shot themself able to shot a shotgun in to the back of their head? You can't even point a shotgun to your temple due to shotgun are too long, let alone point to the back of your head.

We can attach a camera to the point where we place our eyes to aim and check the image from the laptop. The rifle must be fastened very well. A few test shots in advance will be good. The trigger can be pulled with a rope. I've seen spasms in the bodies of people who were shot with ak-47. In the executions with the Shotgun they just fell.
Yeah, the whole point is die, but if we somehow miracle survive (like that beautiful girl), I bet it even worser than our current situation right now. And that youtube video of her face transplant, omg.

Let hope I find a way to throw myself off a 1,000 feet bridge without any tourist pull me back. I think free fall down a 1,000 feet bridge hit concrete sound more safe than this. All the people who jump off that bridge, rather their body still hasn't found, or found smash and all dead. So yeah, no miracle on that bridge. I need to think of a careful plan to ctb there as there people tourist there.

I wish I was as brave as you are about jumping. Antiemetics, acid regulators, SN, N, lots of money, hotel room, a rifle, mechanism, helium or nitrogen tank, gas regulator, worry about failure ... None of them. Very clean method. Just jump. But I'm afraid of heights. I respect those who can jump.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Powderedmonster, gingerplum and toomuchgrief
Roger

Roger

I Liked Ike
May 11, 2019
972
That's fair enough. I'm not suggesting anyone should use this method, or any other. Hell, I'd prefer nobody kill themselves (or at least not be put in a position where they feel it's the only option) but people are going to, and there are always going to be considerable risks involved. If only due to the fact that you might end up sanctioned or in legal trouble for being in possession of dangerous substances. I believe if a person is committed to a particular method, and determined to make it work, based on a sober assessment of the risks and how to ameliorate them, they're likely to succeed, and more so than if they feel railroaded into something else.

There is a lot of nonsense out there that more or less gives the impression that suicide is next to impossible. Most of it is based on cherry-picking statistically irrelevant cases, conflating self-harm attempts and cries for help with suicide attempts, or conflating impulsive attempts made under the influence of psychotic or manic episodes with those undertaken in a more sober mindset with careful planning, and or broad over-generalisations regarding methods. For example I was on a website the other day which purported to give statistical chances of success for various methods which were divided into absurd categories like, 'shotgun to the head,' which, if you know anything about shotguns, is genuinely asinine. The difference between a .410 bore and 12 gauge for example is hard to overstate, but both are shotguns. Both also have an extremely wide variety of ammunition types available which vary considerably in effect.

The website claimed you have about a 1% chance of surviving a shotgun blast to the head. However if anyone can show me an example of anyone surviving a 12 or even 20 gauge shotgun round loaded with 00 buckshot to the head at close range I'd love to see it.

I go along with what you write, and the logical thought process behind it. Why abandon a 99+ % success rate method for a 10% one on the basis of such a highly unlikely outturn ?

People DO survive shotgun to the head though, but so very rarely and usually where the muzzle is placed beneath the chin and angled slightly forward, resulting in the "blowing the face off" injury. If the brain is hit, then damage can be limited to the frontal lobe, something we can survive without.
I have frequently pointed out that a load of heavy shot is not necessary - a shotgun load acts as a single compact mass over the first part of it's flight, and will punch an entry wound of about an inch or so in diameter (for a near-contact shot) before the pellets start to spread. Once inside the skull the pellet size doesn't really matter.

Killing like this is done on a daily basis on livestock farms on animals, some with heavier and thicker skulls than human ones - if really interested look up the Humane Slaughter Association website (UK) and navigate to "Use of Firearms."

Same sort of veterinary evidence can be adduced in respect of rifle/pistol shots too. UK vets, including those present at horse races, generally favour a .32 ACP/7.65 Browning round for horses, yet the experts on this forum claim that such a round is not suitable for human suicide. These vets usually favour a purpose made single shot CASH pistol, made by Accles and Shelvoke, or a Walther PP if they prefer having the capacity for a rapid follow up shot (For general information, UK firearms laws provide several exemptions from the general prohibition on handguns, one example being where they are used for humane despatch or as a slaughtering instrument.)

I hope I'm not "asinine". I have a great deal of experience in the use of firearms, from which I made a legal living for many years, have given expert witness evidence to different types of courts, including Coroners, and have been quoted and credited (about shotgun cartridges) in an authoritative US cartridge publication. I do not possess firearms any more, nor will I try and acquire one, but if I had lawful access it would probably be my method of choice. As it is, I am reduced to the prospect of gargling Aussie pig-killer powder.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nightshade00, win32, siray and 3 others
Stan

Stan

Factoid Hunter
Aug 29, 2019
2,589
As it is, I am reduced to the prospect of gargling Aussie pig-killer powder.
The romance of my preferred method just took a Thomas Cook holiday. lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Astral316 and gingerplum
T

toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
Thank you Sir Roger for your explaination. Thank you for your enlightment.

@siray
and @thrw_a_way1221221

Hope to hear their take on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gingerplum
After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
Jul 31, 2019
135
You sound like maybe you're knowledgeable enough to be the resident firearms expert... we had one some time ago, @TiredHorse, a lovely, brilliant guy who always had sound advice.

Thank you for saying so. I rather enjoy target shooting and have handled a few firearms. I would never call myself an expert, but there are many experts out there willing to share their knowledge if you know where to look.

But how can you hold a long shotgun to the head?

Shotguns are a smooth-bore weapon so the length of the barrel is more or less irrelevant. There are a wide variety of compact shotguns out there, and any shotgun barrel can be cut down with a few hacksaw blades and some tapping fluid with break-action shotguns in particular able to be cut down to little more than the length of a pistol barrel (pump-action and auto-loaders generally have a tubular magazine under the barrel which limits how far it can be shortened, though their are ways around that if you only want to fire one round) bear in mind though such modifications may be extremely illegal depending on your jurisdiction. So don't walk into a hardware store and ask what's best for cutting a shotgun barrel.

You seem knowledgable. Would you be able to say whether someone would bleed out from a 20 gauge shotgun wound that misses the heart by a bit? I would think you would bleed out every time as long as you have some minutes but now Im worried

If you want to see the effect of various 20 gauge loads Paul Harrell has a series of videos on the subject of shotguns as a home defence weapon. He covers a few different 20 gauge rounds, and fires them at 'meat targets,' usually from 5 to 7 yards. Personally I think his targets are more realistic than ballistics gel blocks (and the effect is generally catastrophic) but to answer your question using my (far more modest) understanding of firearms there are two things I feel need to be addressed:

1. What makes you think you're going to miss? If you're firing point-blank your shot placement should be perfect. Even a medium sized bird shot from a 20 gauge at that range will smash your ribs like matchsticks, front and back (i.e you probably want to make sure there's a solid wall behind you or you're in a basement, or use something like a mattress as a bullet stop if you're in an apartment so you don't inadvertently end up killing someone in the next room particularly if you're using a larger buckshot load) so it's not going to miss unless you don't know where your heart is.

2. There is a considerable amount of misinformation out there about shot-spread when it comes to shotguns and most of it is bunk. Unless you're firing at range shotgun pellets tend to have extremely tight groupings. At point-blank ranges they're going to be entering your body in a single mass. Any serious 20 gauge load is going to be comparable in effect to emptying the entire magazine of a 1911 Colt into your chest, all at once from the same barrel with a grouping of less than a square inch. Draw your own conclusions as to the likelihood of survival.

3. This is more general advice, but part of what makes a shotgun, or indeed any extremely powerful firearm to the head so lethal (assuming the barrel is held flush against the skull) is, as much as the bullet or shot itself, the gas pressure venting from the barrel. Once the bullet has bored through the skull these super-heated gasses are going to be blasted through that hole at extremely high-pressure. This is what causes the massive deformation seen in many suicides with high-powered cartridges, and why the victim's brain, or a large part of it, is often blown out the other side.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: alexithymia, siray, spanishguy22 and 2 others
T

toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
@After The End


Would this shotgun work? Shorter than traditional shotgun, but it still a 12 guage shotgun. Chances I can aim at my head easier with this one.



keltec_ksg_angled_ca_whitebg_100sdd0w_1.png
 
Wayfaerer

Wayfaerer

JFMSUF
Aug 21, 2019
1,938
I'm sure all the pro-lifers would tell me I've no business "playing God," but there's no way I could live with myself doing anything to prolong that man's life. Fuck any god that would allow such a travesty.

Isn't saving lives that don't want to be saved "playing God" as well?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Élégie, myopybyproxy and Sunset Limited
gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
Isn't saving lives that don't want to be saved "playing God" as well?
Absolutely, although I'm sure the pro-life argument is that life at any cost is 'God's will,' even if you're a limbless, brain-dead torso. They're not particularly worried about quality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Élégie, myopybyproxy, Wayfaerer and 2 others
Roger

Roger

I Liked Ike
May 11, 2019
972
@spanishguy22



A properly executed hanging breaks the neck just below the brainstem. This in turn causes rapid swelling of the spinal cord and disrupts blood flow and nerve signals in the brainstem, leading to death. May take a few seconds, but still considered a very swift death. However, hanging has gone out of favor as a form of capital punishment. Too short or too slow a drop and the victim dies by strangulation/suffocation, which can take 20 minutes or longer. Too fast or too long a drop and the victim gets decapitated. Does the job, but messy and unpleasant, even if you support capital punishment.

I have taken an interest in judicial executions for about 50 years. This isn't simply down to a ghoulish mindset - when I was a boy I had relatives who lived near to Albert Pierrepoint who was the most prolific British executioner of all time, and I had friends who were relatives of prison officers who had assisted at executions.
Then, in my late teens, I had a colleague (best way of describing him) who was sentenced to death for murder, and only narrowly escaped the rope.
Later, I took an abiding interest in the First World War, and quickly became fascinated by the then mysterious closed records on military executions in that conflict.
In the early 1970s, IIRC, Albert Pierrepoint published his memoirs, although he excluded a great deal of information which has gradually become public after many more years.

Anyway, this in brief sets out the bones of my interest.

In his memoirs, AP went to some length to describe the "humanity" of the British methods and protocols of judicial hanging. Heights and weights were taken into careful consideration, resulting in Tables of Drops published by the Home Office, and a skilled executioner would use his experience to modify these slightly depending on his observations of the muscle tone of the victim. The procedure was carried out with great speed: the execution chamber was right next to the death cell, though the prisoner didn't know this, and would be surprised when hidden connecting doors were thrown open. There were no last words, no reading of sentences - the only thing which was spoken was where the hangman asked the prisoner if he was (name). When AP and his uncle Thomas hanged GIs at the US Military Prison at Shepton Mallet in Somerset, British equipment and hangmen were employed, but the lengthy drawn out American legalistic procedure was carried out, and AP was very critical of this, feeling that it was grossly inhumane to keep a man standing on the trapdoor.

The whole effect was to show the speed of the British procedure, and it has passed into common belief that death from a broken neck was all but instantaneous, and thus humane and merciful.

HOWEVER - how I love that word - even more recent releases of previously secret documents counter this to some extent. AP was engaged by the British Military authorities in Germany after the Second World War to execute War criminals sentenced by the British Military Courts. He hanged 200 at Hameln prison. (Don't confuse with the Nuremberg trials which were carried out by an International Allied Tribunal.)

Anyway, a British style gallows was constructed at Hameln, British equipment was used, and AP was a very, very experienced executioner. All executions went as planned, and death was generally held to be instantaneous. However, it now transpires that Army Medical Officers were able to detect heartbeats up to 15 minutes after the trap had fallen, and in two cases breathing restarted, as much as 7 1/2 minutes after the hanging. It was therefore decided to inject chloroform directly into the hearts of the hanged, and this was done by Army doctors.

So much for instant death from the British long drop system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: toomuchgrief, After The End, siray and 2 others
B

Bjsnode28

Student
Apr 19, 2019
106
About 20,000 Americans successfully CTB with firearms every year. To dismiss the millions of people who have successfully CTB'd with firearms on the basis of a statistically insignificant handful of marginal cases involving miraculous survivals as a means of writing it off as a method seems rather silly. Of course there are risks. There are risks involved in any method. On the balance firearms are a perfectly practical method where they are cheap and readily available. In fact one of the most practical and effective methods period.



In the context of gunshot injuries no it isn't.
I'm glad that you chimed in with some rational insight. Most of the failures from using a firearm are from people pointing it under the chin. The
About 20,000 Americans successfully CTB with firearms every year. To dismiss the millions of people who have successfully CTB'd with firearms on the basis of a statistically insignificant handful of marginal cases involving miraculous survivals as a means of writing it off as a method seems rather silly. Of course there are risks. There are risks involved in any method. On the balance firearms are a perfectly practical method where they are cheap and readily available. In fact one of the most practical and effective methods period.



In the context of gunshot injuries no it isn't.
Thank you for your insightful and accurate response. What most people don't understand is that the bulk of firearm failures occurs when they point the gun from under the chin. The girl that failed and blew off her face and received a face transplant said that she aimed from under her chin. It's also worth noting that she also mentioned that although she failed, she didn't feel any pain. So in the event that you don't hit the brainstem and death occurs you still won't feel pain.
I've read several medical journals written by neurosurgeons that say most self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head are fatal. They say that if the proper ammunition is used (self defense ammo and not range ammo) it causes death. Most survivors of non self inflicted gunshot wounds happen when the bullet enters through the back of the head and exits out the side. If the bullet enters from the side it is almost always fatal as it travels across both lobes. If only one lobe is affected it might only damage motor functions
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: toomuchgrief and gingerplum
After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
Jul 31, 2019
135
Would this shotgun work? Shorter than traditional shotgun, but it still a 12 gauge shotgun. Chances I can aim at my head easier with this one.

When I look at a gun like that the first thought that comes to mind is that it's probably very expensive! That's not to say it won't do the job. Any 20 or 12 gauge will do the job. Personally I'd go for whatever is most economical. Assuming you use the same ammunition all shotguns of equal bore size (and barrel length, though in the context of a point-blank shot barrel length is fairly irrelevant) are equally powerful and you're only going to need to fire one shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: toomuchgrief
sleepy dog

sleepy dog

Wizard
Sep 13, 2019
624
I did a lot of research on the gun method. Many of you mentioned that most failures are because of uneducated aiming affecting the front of head. That of course is true. The Hollywood effect. But I found 2 studies online, I think it was Pubmed, that talked about the results based on aiming point and caliber used. They both affected the mortality results. I looked again a few days ago for the bookmarks in several places and searched google again. I was unable to find the webpage. I remember though it said when aimed at the vital part of the brain (medulla, hippocampus, cerebellum, and spinal cord of course), the mortality rate was only 82%. I will try now and again to find it, or maybe others can search for it. Maybe include caliber and point of entry in the search field. It's not as reliable as I thought it would be, so I stopped doing research when I found those studies. At least I don't think 82% is reliable enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: win32 and toomuchgrief
siray

siray

the crucified
Dec 28, 2018
178
Thank you Sir Roger for your explaination. Thank you for your enlightment.

@siray
and @thrw_a_way1221221

Hope to hear their take on this.
I am at a loss for words. @Roger has cleared most of my queries, and I won't get second thoughts now when I see these self-inflicted gunshot survival stories. I am adamant on using shotgun to the brainstem.

My arms dealer is apparently very reliable, he'll even let me fire the shotgun near the sea, which is nice. I'll go see him in a week. Will keep you guys updated.

I have one question though, me and my friend will be doing this method together. So, if we use one shotgun, and I go first, will my blood and other bio-waste make the shotgun unusable for a second shot? Surely there will be a splatter and my body particles might get inside the muzzle of the shotgun. My partner will be helpless then.
 
  • Love
Reactions: toomuchgrief
seekingoblivion

seekingoblivion

Arcanist
Dec 11, 2018
454
eta: and this is the beautiful 18 year olds girl who use a hunting rifle shot at her chin, she didn't die, but sure lost her whole face.


worth a read.

Now I'm iffy about use a gun, perhaps I should stick with my original plan, jump off a 1,000 feet (300 meters) tourist bridge. Yeah, let hope no tourist see me and pull me back. That my main worry about ctb jumping.

I know the whole point is about mouth and brain stem, but with someone who never use a gun before, it going to be hard to aim at the correct spot (brain stem).



and shoot at the mouth doesn't guarantee neither, as I found this in Quora:

quote: [[
Healthcare at New York (2011-present)

WARNING GRAPHIC: There was a man in an area I used to work as an EMT, years ago, who shot himself with a shotgun, barrel into his mouth at an angle that SHOULD HAVE blown his entire head off…. Somehow it didn't really touch the brain. Everything from his forehead down to his lower jaw were missing, except for part of his tongue. He was breathing, tongue moving around violently, and I bet if he had a mouth that could help form human sounds for him, he would have been screaming in pain. If I remember correctly, he did somehow still have one eye left. He got sedated and intubated, transported to a trauma center, and survived. He needed complete facial reconstruction and years of surgery. I believe he ultimately succeeded in committing suicide several years later. He was very much aware of what happened following pulling that trigger. ]] end quote
Any idea what method he used "years later"?
 
Trainwreck

Trainwreck

Student
Sep 11, 2019
196
This is a pretty ugly story too, but thankfully the doctor did the right thing and let the man die. Plenty of people disagreed with him though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC137271/

edit: the psychiatrist in particular pisses me off, saying that Harry might have changed his mind about suicide. I'm sure he REALLY wanted to live with no face, no eyesight, no hearing, and being able to only move one arm.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Élégie, woxihuanni, gingerplum and 2 others
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
I'm sorry to say that I'm waaaay too vain and superficial to live like that. Seriously, the quality of my life is so marginal right now that a bad haircut could put me over the edge. Skin care and anti-aging protocols are somewhere between hobby and obsession for me.

I can't imagine that she's not on a slew of psychotropic meds, and/or sustained some frontal lobe damage. I mean, she's suicidal over a failed high school romance, but she's a-ok with being blind and severely deformed? It just doesn't jibe for me; that's a 180° personality change. But again, she seems genuinely happy, so I'm glad she feels her life has value.

My first choice method would be a heroin and/or fentanyl overdose; there's nothing more peaceful, except maybe N, and right now N seems way, way to dicey to order. Second choice-- and I still waiver on this-- is short drop hanging. Once you get the hang of it, it's almost frighteningly pleasant... now I get how kids have died playing the "choking game."

In a way, these stories only exist because the ones who attempted must've been impulsive at the time. Nobody who rationally decides life is awful is suddenly grateful for the crumbs of that awful life.

And I'm sorry but if a hero of such stories stepped over the line and tried to 'help' me to make their own narrative good, I'd just tell them that I'd ctb even quicker if I were in their shoes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: myopybyproxy, toomuchgrief and gingerplum
After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
Jul 31, 2019
135
I have one question though, me and my friend will be doing this method together. So, if we use one shotgun, and I go first, will my blood and other bio-waste make the shotgun unusable for a second shot? Surely there will be a splatter and my body particles might get inside the muzzle of the shotgun. My partner will be helpless then.

You'd need to get quite a lot of blood down the barrel before it was an issue, and a tremendous amount of high-pressure gas is going to be blasting all that matter away from the barrel. Either way guns can be cleaned quite easily if you're worried about this, a smooth-bore shotgun barrel in particular is very easy to clean, especially a break action. Assuming it's a reasonably common model or pattern of firearm you can probably find a youtube tutorial on how to clean it, including any necessary field-stripping. But realistically I can't imagine you would have to do more than clean the barrel, assuming you even need to do that much, which you can do with a rag and a piece of dowel or wire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: siray, toomuchgrief and gingerplum
seekingoblivion

seekingoblivion

Arcanist
Dec 11, 2018
454
Absolutely, although I'm sure the pro-life argument is that life at any cost is 'God's will,' even if you're a limbless, brain-dead torso. They're not particularly worried about quality.
If it was truly God's will then nobody would die.
 
gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
If it was truly God's will then nobody would die.
Exactly. Either God doesn't care to intervene, he doesn't have the power to intervene, or he doesn't exist. I'm going with the latter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: seekingoblivion
sleepy dog

sleepy dog

Wizard
Sep 13, 2019
624
This is a pretty ugly story too, but thankfully the doctor did the right thing and let the man die. Plenty of people disagreed with him though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC137271/

edit: the psychiatrist in particular pisses me off, saying that Harry might have changed his mind about suicide. I'm sure he REALLY wanted to live with no face, no eyesight, no hearing, and being able to only move one arm.

Reading that link actually became humorous a tiny bit. Like watching Monty Python or some dark humor movie. All that text and debate over something so obvious. Some people are so educated and self important it is terrifying.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Élégie, woxihuanni and gingerplum
stupidmansuit

stupidmansuit

Member
May 16, 2019
24
These cases are exceptions, even if you "fail" to die instantly somehow, just make sure no one can find you or get to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gingerplum
T

toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
Out of the 10 people survive stories, only that beautiful girl use a rifle to her chin. The other 9 ALL shot in their head, however, 8 of them shot in their head by a shotgun, and the other 1 shot in their head by a rifle.

I'm guessing a rifle is not effective as a shotgun then.

Thank you so much for all the guns expert in here clear up everything about gun method.

Yeah, that is why perhaps I should drive up to the mountain and shot myself. Someone for sure will call if it done in a hotel or at home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gingerplum
gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
This is a pretty ugly story too, but thankfully the doctor did the right thing and let the man die. Plenty of people disagreed with him though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC137271/

edit: the psychiatrist in particular pisses me off, saying that Harry might have changed his mind about suicide. I'm sure he REALLY wanted to live with no face, no eyesight, no hearing, and being able to only move one arm.
This is such an excellent story and discussion! It probably deserves it's own thread; this is a really great share.

Naturally I was horrified that the psychiatrist suggested that he should be kept alive (for what I felt were absurd reasons), but I thoroughly enjoyed the dialogue and the reasoning on both sides.

We need to take everything into account: the horrible reality of his current condition, and the psychological and social realities of his life - severe depression, a profound sense of failure and an estranged family.

The 'best interest ' standard is inadequate also, however, because it assumes that we can make a judgement about what is best for Harry in the absence of considering the totality of what it means to be Harry, including the fact that he is in a deep state of despair.

There comes a time when it is no longer morally or legally mandatory to preserve life.


The entire article is beautifully written and so eloquently presented. I'm bookmarking this because I know I'll want to read it again, and I'll be better armed for any pro-choice debate because of it. Thanks bunches, Trainwreck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TapeMachine, Élégie and Trainwreck
Trainwreck

Trainwreck

Student
Sep 11, 2019
196
This is such an excellent story and discussion! It probably deserves it's own thread; this is a really great share.

Naturally I was horrified that the psychiatrist suggested that he should be kept alive (for what I felt were absurd reasons), but I thoroughly enjoyed the dialogue and the reasoning on both sides.

We need to take everything into account: the horrible reality of his current condition, and the psychological and social realities of his life - severe depression, a profound sense of failure and an estranged family.

The 'best interest ' standard is inadequate also, however, because it assumes that we can make a judgement about what is best for Harry in the absence of considering the totality of what it means to be Harry, including the fact that he is in a deep state of despair.

There comes a time when it is no longer morally or legally mandatory to preserve life.


The entire article is beautifully written and so eloquently presented. I'm bookmarking this because I know I'll want to read it again, and I'll be better armed for any pro-choice debate because of it. Thanks bunches, Trainwreck!

You might be interested in this article as well. It's quite surprising that the doctor went against the daughter's wishes and allowed the man to die. It's even more surprising the psychiatrist agreed that the man was of sound mind and that it was his choice to die: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/what-emergency-ethics-consultation/2016-05
 
  • Love
Reactions: gingerplum
gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
You might be interested in this article as well. It's quite surprising that the doctor went against the daughter's wishes and allowed the man to die. It's even more surprising the psychiatrist agreed that the man was of sound mind and that it was his choice to die: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/what-emergency-ethics-consultation/2016-05
Another great article! Boy, you've really done some interesting research. This one didn't have as spirited of a debate, but it was completely fascinating nonetheless. As a nurse, I know that family cannot override a DNR, however, I have seen plenty of arguments among family members... invariably, there's always one in the bunch who believes that "all things are possible," and "miracles happen every day" thru the power of prayer.

I always thought, if God wanted to perform a miracle and save that patient, surely he wouldn't need any life support or medical intervention to do it.

There's a phrase physicians use in the case of a very grim prognosis like in the first article: No reasonable hope of any meaningful recovery. Honestly I think that's the only ethical criteria you need to meet to discontinue life-prolonging measures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: woxihuanni
Trainwreck

Trainwreck

Student
Sep 11, 2019
196
LOL, I would have made a good researcher. I tend to study everything to death, and could happily have gone to college forever. I'm glad you found them to be interesting reads too!
 
  • Like
Reactions: woxihuanni and gingerplum
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Reading that link actually became humorous a tiny bit. Like watching Monty Python or some dark humor movie. All that text and debate over something so obvious. Some people are so educated and self important it is terrifying.

I laughed so hard when the shrink piped up. Not a merry laugh, but still.
 
  • Love
Reactions: sleepy dog
sleepy dog

sleepy dog

Wizard
Sep 13, 2019
624
You might be interested in this article as well. It's quite surprising that the doctor went against the daughter's wishes and allowed the man to die. It's even more surprising the psychiatrist agreed that the man was of sound mind and that it was his choice to die: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/what-emergency-ethics-consultation/2016-05

I am shocked that the daughter thought she had a right to try that! And I am shocked the doctor thought she had a decision to make. There was a DNR, there was no decision to make. That was the decision, made by the patient! Damn it.
 
T

toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
When I look at a gun like that the first thought that comes to mind is that it's probably very expensive! That's not to say it won't do the job. Any 20 or 12 gauge will do the job. Personally I'd go for whatever is most economical. Assuming you use the same ammunition all shotguns of equal bore size (and barrel length, though in the context of a point-blank shot barrel length is fairly irrelevant) are equally powerful and you're only going to need to fire one shot.


It call
Kel-Tec KSG Bullpup Pump-Action 12 Gauge Shotgun

Here the wiki page


I don't know if it able to get the job done like a regular shotgun, it cost $1,000 to get a new one. I like it due to it shorter length, so it easier to aim at the head/temple. I saw Youtuve videos on it, seem like it gives out decent shots.

Winchester traditional shotgun length of 40 inches long. As to this Kel Tech shotgun, it only 26 inches long. So yeah, it easier to blow the head out. Just hope it works.

So you recommended 00 buckshots and pump action right? Instead of semi-auto?
 
Last edited:
J

Jessica5

Specialist
May 22, 2019
347
Now, had I been a first responder, I would've medicated that guy and suffocated him. I would lie about response time, or do anything within my power to put him out of his misery. If my peers that I was working with disagreed, I would walk and resign if necessary. I'm sure all the pro-lifers would tell me I've no business "playing God," but there's no way I could live with myself doing anything to prolong that man's life. Fuck any god that would allow such a travesty.


You could just do absolutely nothing, and allow nature to take its course. You probably couldn't get criminally prosecuted for that, although you might lose your medical license. Plus it takes away the guilt you might feel from directly killing the person.

That's really "playing God" less than saving the person. I mean, in the state of nature, there are weapons, and there are no medical procedures to save a person who's hit by a weapon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: seekingoblivion

Similar threads

SomewhatLoved
Replies
11
Views
351
Suicide Discussion
Marco77
Marco77
Z
Replies
4
Views
2K
Suicide Discussion
finalincarnate
F