Your arguments requested...

[TAW122]

I'm going to go with @WayOut here and just refrain from arguing with them. The best case scenario (winning the argument - which is already very difficult and arduous to do) doesn't really get me anything or anywhere, just a waste of mental energy, and time. The worse case scenario, of course, is them becoming concerned and start to threaten forced treatment or intervention, thus foiling one's plans to ctb as well as other horrible consequences, making life even worse than it is.

I suppose the best way is to argue via proxy if ever. By that, I mean whenever the topic of euthanasia, terminal illness, and incurable diseases come up, then indirectly mention that death is better than suffering if death is imminent and one has limited time to live while suffering unbearably (cancer, and other illnesses).

 

[HanginAround]

I'm going to go with @WayOut here and just refrain from arguing with them. The best case scenario (winning the argument - which is already very difficult and arduous to do) doesn't really get me anything or anywhere, just a waste of mental energy, and time. The worse case scenario, of course, is them becoming concerned and start to threaten forced treatment or intervention, thus foiling one's plans to ctb as well as other horrible consequences, making life even worse than it is.

I suppose the best way is to argue via proxy if ever. By that, I mean whenever the topic of euthanasia, terminal illness, and incurable diseases come up, then indirectly mention that death is better than suffering if death is imminent and one has limited time to live while suffering unbearably (cancer, and other illnesses).

I like the game theory argument the best. It's simple. Life is a game. If you don't enjoy playing, you shouldn't have to. And as a response to the "why do you have to enjoy it?" question I ask back "if you don't, then why play?"

I also think of it like Suicidal Pascal's Wager. If you know you'll die at the end, then you need only stay around if you place value on the time left. Value of time, just like how we value all other things, is person and circumstance specific.

 

[ManWithNoName]

They won't even try to understand.

Exactly.

 

[Deleted member 1496]

Agreed this is great. An amazing post and a great argument. Original?

Yup, it's original. I was writing the back and forth pro-life vs pro-choice arguments, but it became so convoluted. Regardless of what choice said, pro-life was irrationally absolute. But who decided that us choice folks are the irrational ones? Pro-lifers, friends and family, mental health professionals, popular society. So then I hit delete and started writing about mayo! Glad you liked it!

 

[Redt2go]

Yup, it's original. I was writing the back and forth pro-life vs pro-choice arguments, but it became so convoluted. Regardless of what choice said, pro-life was irrationally absolute. But who decided that us choice folks are the irrational ones? Pro-lifers, friends and family, mental health professionals, popular society. So then I hit delete and started writing about mayo! Glad you liked it!

I understand pro life people though. As there are a lot of suicidal people who don't want to die but feel hopeless. Also for those who truly want to go death is extremely traumatic

And yes :) wordsmith you are

 

[SeekingSolace]

A question that could get deeply philosophical.

But for my simple brain, I like this one from the Urban Dictionary:

"Very often, a pro-lifer is a bible beater without a grasp on anything except their futile task of trying scientifically prove a book without risking disproving it."

That's a great description.

 

[Deleted member 1496]

I understand pro life people though. As there are a lot of suicidal people who don't want to die but feel hopeless. Also for those who truly want to go death is extremely traumatic

And yes :) wordsmith you are

Oh, I'm not anti-recovery or anti-life. I've helped people who didn't want to die and am happy when someone here posts about their recovery. My problem is that except for this site, suicidal people can't talk about their ideation objectively. A pro-lifer argued that choosing suicide is "dumb" and my last therapist threatened to call the cops if I continued to talk about it. So, I shut up. But being silent or deemed dumb doesn't help me not to commit suicide.

After reading about complex trauma, attachment disorder, etc., I learned my reactions are typical and normal, even if they're not in the DSM. Nevertheless, all suicidal people are treated as if we must be crazy or irrational. But that's not the treatment some of us need. What would help is if they understood--and accepted as rational and logical--our feelings and we started from there.

 

[Redt2go]

Oh, I'm not anti-recovery or anti-life. I've helped people who didn't want to die and am happy when someone here posts about their recovery. My problem is that except for this site, suicidal people can't talk about their ideation objectively. A pro-lifer argued that choosing suicide is "dumb" and my last therapist threatened to call the cops if I continued to talk about it. So, I shut up. But being silent or deemed dumb doesn't help me not to commit suicide.

After reading about complex trauma, attachment disorder, etc., I learned my reactions are typical and normal, even if they're not in the DSM. Nevertheless, all suicidal people are treated as if we must be crazy or irrational. But that's not the treatment some of us need. What would help is if they understood--and accepted as rational and logical--our feelings and we started from there.

I wasn't assuming anything about you. I was just stating my opinion. Yeah I wish suicidal people weren't treated as irrational or crazy too.