"You shouldn't ctb because your life might get better later on!"

[BottomlessPit]

This sentiment that pro-lifers love to spam everywhere doesn't make any sense. While it is true that, for some people, life could potentially get better with time, it could also remain bad or even get much worse.

In the end it comes down to a value judgment. Is the pursuit of potential pleasure more important than the avoidance of potential pain? Personally, I don't think so. I would give up every possibility of potential good if that meant that I would never have to suffer again. I value freedom from pain more than pleasure.

Of course, everyone can decide for themselves what they value most. If you think that potential pleasure warrants a continuation of existence, then that is totally fine.

But the problem is that these people impose their subjective preference for pleasure-seeking onto suicidals. They strip us of our human rights and lock us away, for something that ultimately boils down to a difference of opinion. They think that the preference of the majority dictates what should be objective truth. Everyone that deviates from this supposed true view of reality is considered to be malfunctioning, defective. They just cannot accept that some people value different things.

 

[WornOutLife]

I wonder what they really mean by "life getting better".

I mean, as far as I know, as time goes by you get older, slower, maybe sick or sicker, perhaps more suicidal, sometimes poorer, etc.

Therapy? Sorry, but I suffer from suicidal thoughts not from "work stress" or normal stuff which a normie therapist could "heal".

There's a singer who once sang:

"A good person is not the one who "helps" you but the one who DOESN'T BOTHER YOU".

He's so right as regards "normal people".

 

[JustAMatterOfTime]

"Think of all the things you'll miss out on"

What about the stuff I've already missed out on

 

[blue_muse]

It's a fantastical statement based on sentimentality. Someone is seriously supposed to halt their plans to CTB based on an idea things might get better...ok then.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

Yeah, oftentimes it doesn't. What that bullshit REALLY means is, "Shut the hell up and appreciate the fact that you get to be a part of a system that benefits a few. Because they deserve it and you don't. Now shut the hell up, smile and just nod yes with everything we say!"

 

[BlankUser]

I agree with this so much. Sometimes life does get better, many times it gets worse. It's like a gamble. But if you suffer from chronic illness and there is no cure, you will never live a fulfilled life. And what if life does get better after 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? What's the point in suffering so many years so you get a little bit of enjoyement when you're older? I think we all are bound to suffer loss and pain at certain points in life. Some people deal with it better, some don't. You can't take people's choice away.

 

[LakatosDiogenesz]

I've been told that before. Guess what, things have mostly gotten worse.
Therapy won't fix the laws of thermodynamics/human biology, which is what got me here in the first place.

 

[Symbiote]

The divide between normies and depressed persons is so huge that my mom wouldn't be able to fill it. Normies when they view depression, they see it differently than us, more like a minor inconvenience for them, while we see it or exacerbate it as a lifelong issue. Maybe they cope with shit better than us or have the support system that benefits their wellbeing. The same tactics that they make us use, doesn't work. Different situations, context, and environments that there is no one-size fits all that will work. My wife is the exact opposite of me, optimistic, self-confident, overly vain, and perhaps narcissistic, she views depression as a challenge to fight it and get over it as quickly as possible. But you look at her life, her thousands of friends on FB, followed by a dozen close friends and family members she can confide in, no wonder her and others are able to get overcome their difficulties much easier than we can. Except, their depression problems are usually first-world issues like, "my car broke down", "I didn't get 10 likes on this picture", "I'm hungry, what should I eat?", "my phone battery died", or "I wasn't invited to this party." Those are easy to fix and deal with for us, because we have deeper issues. I mean I wish I can trade sexual trauma for "aww my favorite GPU is sold out". I wish I can trade childhood neglect for "my iphone broke".

Complex problems take years and years, and maybe never to heal. Normies like to combine both simple and complex issues under one umbrella and use the same treatments, then get frustrated when it doesn't work and then blame us because we're not trying hard enough. An example of what normies think of some of us straight from FT26:



They don't bother to understand or understand the complexities of our condition. Nope it's WHOOP-DEE FUCKIN DOOOOOOO!

 

[FuneralCry]

I agree. Suicide shouldn't always be viewed as an terrible thing, an selfish immoral act. Sometimes there is no end and no way out of the suffering and therefore it can be seen as rational to want this option. I just think many pro lifers are ignorant because they haven't been through it themselves. They are fortunate enough to be in this position. Its fine if you want to live but people should be able to opt out with little judgement if they are continually in pain. A right to die with dignity is very important.

 

[LakatosDiogenesz]

Complex problems take years and years, and maybe never to heal. Normies like to combine both simple and complex issues under one umbrella and use the same treatments, then get frustrated when it doesn't work and then blame us because we're not trying hard enough. An example of what normies think of some of us straight from FT26:

View attachment 67352

They don't bother to understand or understand the complexities of our condition. Nope it's WHOOP-DEE FUCKIN DOOOOOOO!

Kerry here wouldn't last a week with autism. Let that simple fact bring us all comfort.
Some people are convinced that they know everything while actually knowing nothing.

 

[All-Dead-Y]

One of my favorite arguments is "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

A. It assumes Depression is temporary
B. You WANT your solutions to be permanent! A temporary solution is a damn shitty one

I get throwing it at a kid who just broke up with his first girlfriend and is now trying to sudoku himself, but c'mon! It's so widespread and thinking about it for even a second shows it's flaws lol

 

[nolongerhuman]

The problem with imploring me for my life to get better is that my life is fine the way it is right now. I can't imagine it getting any better without something big and unlikely happening like winning the lottery or finding a soulmate. It's me that's the problem, and there's not much that can be done to fix me. The problem with the current generation of suicide prevention advocates is they have no idea what to do for people for whom their pre-packaged solutions don't work.

 

[almaranthine]

The problem with imploring me for my life to get better is that my life is fine the way it is right now. I can't imagine it getting any better without something big and unlikely happening like winning the lottery or finding a soulmate. It's me that's the problem, and there's not much that can be done to fix me. The problem with the current generation of suicide prevention advocates is they have no idea what to do for people for whom their pre-packaged solutions don't work.

Your reply really spoke to me... winning the lottery or finding a soulmate, that's so spot on. Very few circumstances can mitigate the stream of miseries life seems to be composed of for most people. At this point in my life, I've got more money saved up than I ever had in the past (it's not much, but for me an accomplishment) so it's no longer the threat of homelessness and resulting trauma and abuse that makes me want to die. As for love, a soulmate, I think I'd have a better chance with the lottery. I know I'm the problem too, and to think I could change that would be like a surgeon thinking they could cut open a corpse and manage to "fix" them.

 

[charcoalcat]

There are some things that will never change. Ctb folks aren't stupid.

 

[Water-Lily]

Oh tell me about it. I mean sure life could be better, but it could also be worse. Especially if your life so far has been consistently negative its difficult to see it any other way

 

[Superdeterminist]

Spot on. The idea that we MUST continue because MAYBE things will improve is terribly flawed and even harmful. Let us be the captains of our own ships.

 

[WatermelonMel]

example of what normies think of some of us straight from FT26:

View attachment 67352

That Kerry doesn't understand how isolating, lonely, humiliating and embarrassing Autism constantly is, it's so annoying when people try to criticize something they don't understand, I wish I could respond to this person to show them how fucking wrong they are

 

[WatermelonMel]

Funny enough right after I responded I saw a member in a group I'm in say this exact thing, I snapped and responded to them about how some things are not temporary. They are probably going to think I'm a monster that promotes self harm or something and probably even talk shit behind my back but oh well, this is the society we live in who will happily make a prolifer post about how you shouldn't harm yourself but they won't try to understand why an individual is suicidal in the first place.

Sometimes it feels like they are narrowminded and only think of one portion of the suicidal people (Those that are in temporary emotional pain/depression) and then treat everyone else the same.

 

[Water-Lily]

Funny enough right after I responded I saw a member in a group I'm in say this exact thing, I snapped and responded to them about how some things are not temporary. They are probably going to think I'm a monster that promotes self harm or something and probably even talk shit behind my back but oh well, this is the society we live in who will happily make a prolifer post about how you shouldn't harm yourself but they won't try to understand why an individual is suicidal in the first place.

Sometimes it feels like they are narrowminded and only think of one portion of the suicidal people (Those that are in temporary emotional pain/depression) and then treat everyone else the same.

I feel you. sometimes some pain is not temporary. Its permanent. In the case of childhood trauma, it always will be

 

[the_final_countdown]

It seems unlikely my body will magically heal itself.

It may. But it's unlikely.

I could try to adjust and live with these symptoms. But it's too much for me. I can't handle it, especially after what medicine did to me. Really stripped me of my soul.

I'd give you advice on what to avoid but I don't think it would help anybody here.

No, I'm just in indescribably agony daily. Lying on the floor for hours. It's been four months of this. I'm not kidding.

Sometimes I'll walk to a deserted area, carry around my bottle of SN.

Suddenly everything feels okay.

That's the real motherfucker.

Apparently SI can kick in just long enough to make you feel good, but not permanently enough to be able to function. A real catch-22.

anyways I've been trying to kill myself. It's hard. I want to end this torment.

I'm trying. It's hard. So hard to drink just a small bottle...

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Amazingly based thread. Most likely thing to happen to most people is either a very slow and incremental improvement (which usually won't come close to ending at least passive suicidality in non-normies), a very slow decline or literally nothing. Real life isn't a movie; you won't fall in love by meeting someone on the street, your boss won't suddenly put you in charge of the company after seeing how well you swept the floor.

Changing major life areas (money, relationships, health, etc) will in almost all cases take a slow and steady stream of willpower that's basically held back by depressive realism or an unstable psyche (genes and environment) in many of "us".

 

[Sensei]

I think it all comes down to probabilities. If you have a terminal illness the odds that they will find a cure soon might be 1:1,000,000, but if you're unemployed the odds that you'll find a job might be 1:2. One simply has to figure out if it's worth waiting for something which might or might not happen.

 

[ithappens]

Man you really get it. All I ever wanted was a life with as little suffering as possible and instead it has been full of suffering (particularly my younger years). People say that suffering is necessary to "become great" and they point out their favorite movie stars or some .001% success story of some individual who got extremely lucky on top of their hard work. Well I never asked for greatness, personally I just don't find the exchange worth it. I would gladly give back my childhood of neglect and pain for a life of simplicity and having just enough rather than becoming "successful" and working myself to the bone for a chance at becoming what society thinks is someone great.

 

[paininme]

I hate the sayings "time heals everything" "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" it's so not true there are things that don't get better or can't be healed sometimes life won't get better it's selfish to make people think their current problems are irrelevant and will be in a few years

 

[Sprite_Geist]

But the problem is that these people impose their subjective preference for pleasure-seeking onto suicidals. They strip us of our human rights and lock us away, for something that ultimately boils down to a difference of opinion. They think that the preference of the majority dictates what should be objective truth. Everyone that deviates from this supposed true view of reality is considered to be malfunctioning, defective. They just cannot accept that some people value different things.

You are correct - herd mentality. When a belief becomes popular enough it is viewed as an unofficial fact. This is partly how social rules and cultures are formed, and how taboos are decided. It can be for the better or for the worse depending on how "good" those beliefs are.

Though having said this, an opinion is still an opinion irrespective of how many individuals believe in it.

Complex problems take years and years, and maybe never to heal. Normies like to combine both simple and complex issues under one umbrella and use the same treatments, then get frustrated when it doesn't work and then blame us because we're not trying hard enough. An example of what normies think of some of us straight from FT26:

View attachment 67352

They don't bother to understand or understand the complexities of our condition. Nope it's WHOOP-DEE FUCKIN DOOOOOOO!

The user who posted this comment has made a false comparison. Yes it may be true that autism does not outright kill you in the same way heart failure does, but it still has very harmful effects that can lead to health damage and even death. Individuals with autism have difficulty forming bonds and creating relationships with other humans, and they can also struggle with day-to-day tasks. This can make trying to live, depending on the severity of the autism, very stressful. Unfortunately in some cases life itself becomes too overwhelming for the autistic person, and they commit suicide.

Kerry has said that you should try dealing with an illness such as cancer, because this will apparently make you want to survive more. However not everybody does or can survive from diseases such as cancer, in fact in some instances the sufferers do not want to survive. But why? Because the quality of life of a person can be greatly affected by a life-threatening but survivable illness, so much to the point that any pain or discomfort outweighs being alive. As an example: imagine a person who has been in a coma for many years and will never come out of it; yes they are alive - they are breathing and their body is (mostly) functioning properly, and the coma will not actually kill them. At the same time, though, being in the coma prevents this person from doing anything or enjoying whatever gives them pleasure; this person is alive, but they are not living - this is the important difference. It is this difference that should be taken into consideration when deciding if life is worth living; not if a health issue or condition causes death. This is the reason why autism can be just as serious as cancer, but in its own way.

Kerry has dismissed the claim about having your brain wired improperly as being trivial, but "she" also says that if you help others it will make you feel better and, presumably, will prevent you from pitying yourself. I am not accusing you of self-pitying myself, and I tend to dislike that term, but it comes across as if Kerry is implying that. This will likely not help though; an autistic person cannot simply feel better about themselves any more than a person with a mood disorder can "just snap out of it". This is wishful thinking. Given that the group who Kerry belongs to claims to care about suicidal individuals, and those suffering from mental health issues, you would think that she would follow their supposed values of trying to be caring. Actually, no, correction: everyone should try to be like this anyway, but the point against the user who made that comment still stands.

The bottom line is this: suffering is not a competition. We are all capable of experiencing pain. It does not matter if you are from a poorer and developing country, or from a more wealthier part of the planet - you will bleed the same. If you see another human being who is hurting in some way then just help them out, if possible. That is all there is to it.

Judging whether or not someone is worthy of empathy based on what medical issue they face breeds apathy to those who do not hit the arbitrary line, and only helps to fuel the suffering that is present in the world.

 

[Not Being]

I have heard the following: "all change is for the better"

The reality is that it may or may not, depends on your expectations (what you are looking for).

Usually there are people, in particular the pro-life ones, who commit omissions, they present incomplete information, excluding possible problems or difficulties, which results in the presentation of a falsified reality / they do not show reality as it is.

If you mention the negative parts, they tell you that you are an "exaggerated person" "there are also good things", denying the other side of the coin.

For the simple fact of showing the FACTS, they say "you are very negative, bad influence"

It is necessary to show and analyze the entire board as it is, not just show you what looks pretty.

 

[unperson]

This sentiment that pro-lifers love to spam everywhere doesn't make any sense. While it is true that, for some people, life could potentially get better with time, it could also remain bad or even get much worse.

In the end it comes down to a value judgment. Is the pursuit of potential pleasure more important than the avoidance of potential pain? Personally, I don't think so. I would give up every possibility of potential good if that meant that I would never have to suffer again. I value freedom from pain more than pleasure.

Of course, everyone can decide for themselves what they value most. If you think that potential pleasure warrants a continuation of existence, then that is totally fine.

But the problem is that these people impose their subjective preference for pleasure-seeking onto suicidals. They strip us of our human rights and lock us away, for something that ultimately boils down to a difference of opinion. They think that the preference of the majority dictates what should be objective truth. Everyone that deviates from this supposed true view of reality is considered to be malfunctioning, defective. They just cannot accept that some people value different things.

Wait a minute, I don't remember making this account and writing this..? Lmao yeah it's like imagine one day suicide will the the norm and just a minority of those born will endure for long the abject suffering of whatever wretched Hellscape awaits humanity's future and most people will just live to about adolescent age when the early childhood-high-dopaminergic-sensitivity wears off and playing dodgeball with your older suicide-deceased sibling's skull has lost its innocent fun, so you spawn the global average of the population-plummeting 0.7 children and then off into the abyss unlike the 5% of complete psychopaths who make it past 26.

 

[Empty gas can]

It comes from the idea that nothing lasts forever, including suffering. While it's technically true, it's mostly a falacy. Some people suffer more often and for longer periods than others. Sometimes, your quality of life is so bad that things can only get worse (extreme poverty, disabilities, chronic health issues). We all experience remission periods, but what's the point if you're in pain most of the time?

 

[Makko]

I reject their bright future and substitute my own

 

[Zzzzz]

2 problems I have with it.
1. No matter how hard someone tries, There's no guarantee they'll be happy in life.
2. Even if great happiness is possible, that doesn't mean it's worth the effort. Life is a battle, and some people are tired of fighting.