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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
6,461
I think yes. I live in Europe though. But he would probably be also worse for Americans imo.

But first the European perpsective. You can easily bribe Trump. Give him some gold (like the business men of Switzerland did), compliment him in shameless ways like for example Mark Rutte did. (he called Trump "daddy"). It is in some way pathetic but on the other hand smart. They manipulate Trump to get favors from him. His ego is his weakness. Trump works transactional. Boost his ego, give him a symbolic victory so that he can posture himself as a strongman in front of his supporters. Help him to get wins for his audience. This is how you get admissions without sacrificing too much substantial except maybe your dignitiy.

Recently, I read an interview with James Orr. A friend o J.D. Vance. He is one of Vance's favorite philosophers too. It was an eulogy of Charlie Kirk, ruthless attacks against Europe (and its alleged censorship), US media manipulation against Trump, excuses for the January 6th rioters and so on. Today, I also listened to a Curtis Yarvin lecture. (which felt like a waste of time because he says the same things all the fucking time). Yarvin is also a phiosopher who inspired Vance. At the end of the lecture Yarvin debated a conservative historian and got completely rekt. They are very influential, but they are charlatans. I think Vance is an ideologue. (in contrast to Trump). This what makes him so dangerous. And he is smarter than Trump. The former critics who converted tend to become the most extreme supporters. But Vance is bigger than Trump. (not literally lol). He has an coherent world view. And well his vision for the US is certainly not good for the average US citizen. But I have the feeling Americans could fall for it again. The same people who were convinced "no Project2025 is not Trump's agenda". The same could happen with Vance. It is increasingly likely that Vance tries to become Trumps's successor. The king is old. And by rigging the system in his favor Vance could have a decent chance. Especially, if Democrats are not fighting back. I think though Americans are pretty pissed about the status quo of the country. And Vance might be associated too strongly with the status quo. I think Vance has a good intution and acts strategically. This is why he performed so well against Tim Walz in his debate. He is a good liar, he knows the liberal elites because he was part of them. He knows their weaknesses. For Europe Vance would clearly be worse. Russia with its anti-woke policies is closer to Vance's prefered ideology. At the same time Vance/Trump try to take the EU down. Maybe successfully. The populist right can argue we have an ally in the Oval Office. If you vote for us we will repair the transatlancic relations and the relations with Russia. Slavoj Zizek said Trump is SA, but Vance is SS. I really like that quote of him. The sole fact that people still think with Vance is would be better than with Trump shows that people are still falling for the lies of the administration. Vance is way more extreme on many issues compared to Trump. Trump has a short attention span, is not really that motivated, cares more about his personal wealth than about the country. The people behind his administration Stephen Miller, Vance, Russ Vought they are driving this agenda. And Trump's ego and mood swings are in their way. Trump is in some way a puppet, but at the same time he doesn't like the feeling to be treated like a puppet. Trump has the last word. But usually he listens to the last person he talked to (according to insiders). Vance instead he would accelerate the downfall of the US democracy even more. It is not about personal greed for him. It is his ideology that drives him. And the impact of a Vance presidency could be pretty pretty nasty. A CEO monarch like Yarvin wants it is not exactly what makes lives of Americans easier...
 
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Dejected 55

Dejected 55

Visionary
May 7, 2025
2,093
Trump has a short attention span... he doesn't believe half the things he says or does... but he is good at seeing where the pendulum is swinging and taking advantage of vulnerable/exploited people, in part by pointing them at other oppressed people so they can feel better about themselves by bashing others.

Point is... Trump isn't the problem... Trump is a symptom of the problem and willing to exploit it. He's dangerous to be sure, but that danger comes less from him specifically and more from enablers and others around him who really want to do questionable stuff but aren't otherwise able to grab that power.

I don't know fully where Vance's heart is... but all the people who keep thinking "once Trump is gone civility will return" are fooling themselves. There are a LOT of people who want some shady shit... and there are more competent people running for offices who believe in the shady shit who will be more effective at getting that shady shit done.

I think Trump is just the canary in the coal mine.
 
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NormallyNeurotic

NormallyNeurotic

Everything is going to be okay ⋅ he/him
Nov 21, 2024
543
Yes and no.

Trump's mental state has declined so much that anyone could whisper in his ear with a convincing enough grin and he'd start a nuclear war. Not that he really had a stable view on politics to begin with... like some people I unfortunately know, he's the type who's beliefs change with the wind.

JD Vance can at least think for himself beyond instant gratification. He's less likely to get us into war accidentally or without knowledge of what war entails. That doesn't mean he's not more likely to get us into war knowingly, though.

I still think he's a better option, because having someone with their own complex wants for the country might sow discord in the government. They're probably only being held together by the fact that Trump is a puppet (unpredictable, but a puppet). They're all looking at the old dying king on his throne and the anticipation is "keeping them in check."

Once they all have more or less equal drive to control the government themselves, things will get even messier than they already are. And that will cause chaos, but if we can survive that, hopefully it'll crumble fast enough for people to grow a pair and do something.
 
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itsgone2

-
Sep 21, 2025
964
If you want a return to civility, anyone would be better.
But who would be good? I lost faith in both parties years ago.
This recent exposure of somali daycare fraud is a good example. Walz knew about it and we'll likely find out he benefited from it. Many on the left will be found out.
But there are news reports of this going back to 2018 at least. So why didn't the right do something? I have to think somehow also involved.
It's very frustrating. Many communities have struggled for decades. And we let this happen. Continue to happen. What are these parties actually doing to help anyone?
Trump is incredibly divisive I get that, but they all suck.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Mathematical physics & hedge funds… I guess… 🤷‍♀️
Oct 15, 2023
2,180


 
NormallyNeurotic

NormallyNeurotic

Everything is going to be okay ⋅ he/him
Nov 21, 2024
543


...what does this say about your opinion on the topic? Are you agreeing with the people in the articles? Giving context for your views? I'm confused 😭
 
fadedghost

fadedghost

Student
Dec 10, 2025
108
it's hard to know. i disagree with his positions, but jd vance is extremely smart, like super genius level, even if he doesn't come across that way

it doesn't mean he would be good, he could be terrible, but he's smart

trump was very smart (don't agree with his politics) but not as smart as jd vance

AOC probably is less smart than both, but still smart, but she has a better heart, a better worldview, and would probably have better policy. that's who i would like to vote for. i don't vote anymore, but if she were running, i would vote for her. she's a good person, it's rare these days. i am also just guessing she's less smart since she didn't go to harvard or wharton or yale stanford etc. did she go to nyu? she could be as smart though, it's hard to be sure. her positions are smart, she talks smart. (edit, she went to boston college. it's smart, but not super genius level. she'd still be better. iq isn't everything, world view matters, emotional intelligence matters, she is completely pure and free of corruption, which matters. i'd vote for her and like pretty much no one else)
 
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itsgone2

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Sep 21, 2025
964
it's hard to know. i disagree with his positions, but jd vance is extremely smart, like super genius level, even if he doesn't come across that way

it doesn't mean he would be good, he could be terrible, but he's smart

trump was very smart (don't agree with his politics) but not as smart as jd vance

AOC probably is less smart than both, but still smart, but she has a better heart, a better worldview, and would probably have better policy. that's who i would like to vote for. i don't vote anymore, but if she were running, i would vote for her. she's a good person, it's rare these days. i am also just guessing she's less smart since she didn't go to harvard or wharton or yale stanford etc. did she go to nyu? she could be as smart though, it's hard to be sure. her positions are smart, she talks smart. (edit, she went to boston college. it's smart, but not super genius level. she'd still be better. iq isn't everything, world view matters, emotional intelligence matters, she is completely pure and free of corruption, which matters. i'd vote for her and like pretty much no one else)
I think it's great you were able to say nice things about both sides. It's so rare!
 
fadedghost

fadedghost

Student
Dec 10, 2025
108
I think it's great you were able to say nice things about both sides. It's so rare!
i wasn't trying to be nice. trump is smart but does a lot of evil things. jd vance is likely not that different from trump, but i also don't know. he may be playing along to get power and then will run things in a way that isn't evil. i'm not trying to be nice to both sides. how trump is treating immigrants is evil. it's not the deportations themselves, it's sending people to places where they will be tortured as part of the process. a person can be highly intelligent and lacking empathy. it also may be trump sees himself as practical and views this as the only way of stopping a large problem through deterrence (people leaving broken countries with bad governments instead of fixing them and taxing USA resources) but it's still cruel and evil because it involves torture, cecot is torture