Discussion Why most suicides are men

[lunious]

Suicide rates are 80% higher in men than in women. What are some genuine reasons that drive men to suicide more?

 

[itsgone2]

I can speak for myself and at least three people I knew that are already gone. There are another three acquaintances I've had in my life that I'm not sure their reason. Yes higher in men and especially white men. For me I know it's that we expect ourselves to be providers, and when that's threatened it's hard to see the point. I've talked on here about my own failures personally that also torment me, those are completely on me. But once again having a company being sold and being on the losing end of a merger is destroying me. And the market sucks. And I'm just sick of this nonsense anyway.

 

[unluckysadness]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/depression-his-versus-hers

"One reason for the higher rate of suicide in men is that they are more likely to use guns, while women are more likely to use less immediately lethal means, like poisoning."

 

[TAW122]

I think this is due to the fact that men oftenly choose more lethal methods (firearms, hangings, jumping, etc.) and oftenly go through with more intent and seriousness, whereas while women may attempt CTB more, they also choose methods that have less success rate (ODs, cutting, etc.). Of course, not all women do that, there are women who do in fact, choose lethal methods and also have a lot of determination to ensure a successful CTB, just like there are men out there too who choose less lethal methods.

 

[itsgone2]

Also there are many studies out there I'm sure but in the US it's closer to 300% higher in men. Globally seems about 120% higher.

 

[Tired_birth_1967]

From a neurobiological point of view, there is nothing specific. Therefore, cultural aspects, etc., remain as possibilities.

 

[Dinozauria]

I'm was not AMAB so I don't know from experience, but I'd guess it has something to do with the fact that men are taught it's shameful to show emotions. Their expected to be tougher then any human should be. Also, as a person above said, men normally choose more lethal methods

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

Because men have to shelter there problems while society has different expectations of them to be stoic through hard times. If they go through abuse, no one believes them.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

They aren't "driven to suicide more". As others have pointed out, you're misrepresenting the stats.

 

[DeadManLiving]

I'm was not AMAB so I don't know from experience, but I'd guess it has something to do with the fact that men are taught it's shameful to show emotions. Their expected to be tougher then any human should be. Also, as a person above said, men normally choose more lethal methods

Yes. And when unable to meet expectations, men become useless apparently so the combination of above.

 

[Luke27]

You know how if you're a good looking girl you'll have guys on their knees for you but if you're a good looking guy like me that's absolutely not the case

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

They aren't "driven to suicide more". As others have pointed out, you're misrepresenting the stats.

Actually, men are more likely to succeed, women are more likely to attempt. I guess it depends which statistic we wanna skew.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Why do more men kill themselves?

In a word: Women.

(Sorry. Just a bit of comic relief)

I'm sure it has everything to do with what's already been said.

 

[trashisland]

I mean women are actually more likely to attempt, its just men use more lethal methods

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

Why do more men kill themselves?

In a word: Women.

(Sorry. Just a bit of comic relief)

I'm sure it has everything to do with what's already been said.

You're not wrong either

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

Males are the expendable sex. Ultimately I think the reason is evolutionary. Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive. Few men today have more offspring than one woman can have in a lifetime, but theoretically a man's upside is much higher. Think Genghis Khan.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

Actually, men are more likely to succeed, women are more likely to attempt. I guess it depends which statistic we wanna skew.

Respectfully, that is precisely the stat I was referring to, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue my own point back to me .

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

Respectfully, that is precisely the stat I was referring to, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue my own point back to me .

I'm not really arguing, just helping to clarify what's being misunderstood. For all I know, the topic poster has a hard time with English and couldn't clarified what they meant. Either way, I think we all agree what we all meant. :/

 

[itsgone2]

Actually, men are more likely to succeed, women are more likely to attempt. I guess it depends which statistic we wanna skew.

I'm not sure what this means. What is being skewed? Women are more likely to use pills, which is a non method and not really an attempt in my opinion. When they fail and try more and more, is that really suicidal? The same lethal methods available to men are available to women, so I'm not sure what you mean by skewed.

 

[dragonofenvy]

In fairness, I think some of the statistics might be skewed because they rely on either self-reported data, or hospital visits. Obviously completed suicides are easy to see, but what about a guy like me who has held a gun to their head but was unable to pull the trigger? Is that a suicide attempt? Well, according to the statistics it isn't because nobody knows about it. If I OD'd on pills and went to the hospital however I'd be counted in the attempt statistics. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the overall suicide attempt rate is equal, and if women choose more lethal methods the completed suicides would also be equal.

However, let's talk about why men would be more driven to completing suicides, as that's what the statistics show.

I heard from a psychiatrist who runs a YouTube channel that half of men who kill themselves in his experience don't have any mental illness, but kill themselves because they think through things a lot, and genuinely believe that suicide is the only answer. Their job sucks, their relationships suck, maybe they don't have a job or relationships. They see no way out. They've tried going to therapy, they've tried getting help. Many men don't have any social support. They don't have anyone they can talk to. They're not allowed to talk to anyone.

Most homeless people are men. Most prisoners are men. Men are also more likely to abuse drugs. There are huge problems men face in society and this drives us to drug use, suicide, etc. Unfortunately, the problems I mentioned aren't the ones to worry about. The biggest problem that men face is even talking about the issue brings a lot of people in to shame us for even discussing it. This made me feel completely invisible. Not only that, but I don't care about anything anymore. I don't care that I'm addicted to drugs, and the only reason I'm not part of the prison population is because the consequences of committing a crime would be too severe for me.

Those things I just listed about homelessness and the prison population. Those aren't the problems. They're symptoms of the problem.

I was taught in school that I bear the original sin of oppressing people hundreds of years ago when I was born in 2001. I am taught that I have to step aside and give my opportunities over to marginalized groups for the sake of equality, but wouldn't that make me marginalized? At work and school we have to take training on how not to be racist or sexually abusive, as though that's inherent in our nature somehow. When I look at the news or social media it's become normalized to be misandrist and just hate men. I was also taught that I can't discuss these things because I have it better than everyone else. I sure hope the latter part is true because I'm still waiting.

With all of this, people still wonder why men are checking out of society. The reasons are so obvious if you just ask men them. Unfortunately, due to not being allowed to talk about them, and having no spaces to talk about them, we're silent about it. This makes it even more difficult because when we are given an opportunity to discuss these things, we find it very difficult to articulate our experience because we've been taught not to talk about it.

So I can't talk about my problems. I have a lot of problems. I don't have a future, and I'm expected to sacrifice my future for everyone else. People see men as threatening and inherently bad, and in need of re-education. Gee, I wonder why guys have given up.

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

I'm not sure what this means. What is being skewed? Women are more likely to use pills, which is a non method and not really an attempt in my opinion. When they fail and try more and more, is that really suicidal? The same lethal methods available to men are available to women, so I'm not sure what you mean by skewed.

Skewed can probably mean anything right now. I think the topic poster framed his question in a way where he probably meant one thing (why are suicides higher in men and what drives them to do it more).

So from a vague or "skewed" context (for all I know, English is the topic poster's second language, so my presumption was a general inquiry vs an analytical one).

If we wanted to look at statistics or the pure side to what was mwntioned verbatim, then the research has shown that men are more likely to succeed in their attempts while women are more likely to attempt at suicide, even if they fail.

Some researchers have studied the methods and one theory is men choose more lethal methods while women choose slower and more drawn out methods.

There isn't enough conclusive data if "men attempt more" as it requires a larger study size and control situation that are harder to measure.

So I guess what's what I meant by 'skewed' - Since we can interpret this in the lens of general assumptions.

"When they fail and try more and more, is that really suicidal? "

A suicidal attempt is a failure to complete the act. So if the statistic, was women attempt suicide more, then to answer your question, yes.

Just because they keep taking 200 pills of seroquel and it doesn't work one time, doesn't mean each failed attempt isn't affecting their health until it does.

Same with Tylenol. You won't O'D on it, but attempt 5 times a year at lethal doses, and getting kidney failure is still close to success.

A personal friend of mine passed away at the age of 47 to congestive heart failure and cirrhosis. He was very depressed, trauma ridden, and suicidal, but couldn't actively do it. He drank and smoke every day until the diseases took his life. He always wanted to die.

When he passed, I mentioned in a good bye text that he'd never read that he finally got his wish.

In my opinion, just because it didn't kill you now, if you're determined enough to let it kill you, it inevitably will.

In fairness, I think some of the statistics might be skewed because they rely on either self-reported data, or hospital visits. Obviously completed suicides are easy to see, but what about a guy like me who has held a gun to their head but was unable to pull the trigger? Is that a suicide attempt? Well, according to the statistics it isn't because nobody knows about it. If I OD'd on pills and went to the hospital however I'd be counted in the attempt statistics. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the overall suicide attempt rate is equal, and if women choose more lethal methods the completed suicides would also be equal.

However, let's talk about why men would be more driven to completing suicides, as that's what the statistics show.

I heard from a psychiatrist who runs a YouTube channel that half of men who kill themselves in his experience don't have any mental illness, but kill themselves because they think through things a lot, and genuinely believe that suicide is the only answer. Their job sucks, their relationships suck, maybe they don't have a job or relationships. They see no way out. They've tried going to therapy, they've tried getting help. Many men don't have any social support. They don't have anyone they can talk to. They're not allowed to talk to anyone.

Most homeless people are men. Most prisoners are men. Men are also more likely to abuse drugs. There are huge problems men face in society and this drives us to drug use, suicide, etc. Unfortunately, the problems I mentioned aren't the ones to worry about. The biggest problem that men face is even talking about the issue brings a lot of people in to shame us for even discussing it. This made me feel completely invisible. Not only that, but I don't care about anything anymore. I don't care that I'm addicted to drugs, and the only reason I'm not part of the prison population is because the consequences of committing a crime would be too severe for me.

Those things I just listed about homelessness and the prison population. Those aren't the problems. They're symptoms of the problem.

I was taught in school that I bear the original sin of oppressing people hundreds of years ago when I was born in 2001. I am taught that I have to step aside and give my opportunities over to marginalized groups for the sake of equality, but wouldn't that make me marginalized? At work and school we have to take training on how not to be racist or sexually abusive, as though that's inherent in our nature somehow. When I look at the news or social media it's become normalized to be misandrist and just hate men. I was also taught that I can't discuss these things because I have it better than everyone else. I sure hope the latter part is true because I'm still waiting.

With all of this, people still wonder why men are checking out of society. The reasons are so obvious if you just ask men them. Unfortunately, due to not being allowed to talk about them, and having no spaces to talk about them, we're silent about it. This makes it even more difficult because when we are given an opportunity to discuss these things, we find it very difficult to articulate our experience because we've been taught not to talk about it.

So I can't talk about my problems. I have a lot of problems. I don't have a future, and I'm expected to sacrifice my future for everyone else. People see men as threatening and inherently bad, and in need of re-education. Gee, I wonder why guys have given up.

In fairness, I think some of the statistics might be skewed because they rely on either self-reported data, or hospital visits. Obviously completed suicides are easy to see, but what about a guy like me who has held a gun to their head but was unable to pull the trigger? Is that a suicide attempt? Well, according to the statistics it isn't because nobody knows about it. If I OD'd on pills and went to the hospital however I'd be counted in the attempt statistics. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the overall suicide attempt rate is equal, and if women choose more lethal methods the completed suicides would also be equal.

However, let's talk about why men would be more driven to completing suicides, as that's what the statistics show.

I heard from a psychiatrist who runs a YouTube channel that half of men who kill themselves in his experience don't have any mental illness, but kill themselves because they think through things a lot, and genuinely believe that suicide is the only answer. Their job sucks, their relationships suck, maybe they don't have a job or relationships. They see no way out. They've tried going to therapy, they've tried getting help. Many men don't have any social support. They don't have anyone they can talk to. They're not allowed to talk to anyone.

Most homeless people are men. Most prisoners are men. Men are also more likely to abuse drugs. There are huge problems men face in society and this drives us to drug use, suicide, etc. Unfortunately, the problems I mentioned aren't the ones to worry about. The biggest problem that men face is even talking about the issue brings a lot of people in to shame us for even discussing it. This made me feel completely invisible. Not only that, but I don't care about anything anymore. I don't care that I'm addicted to drugs, and the only reason I'm not part of the prison population is because the consequences of committing a crime would be too severe for me.

Those things I just listed about homelessness and the prison population. Those aren't the problems. They're symptoms of the problem.

I was taught in school that I bear the original sin of oppressing people hundreds of years ago when I was born in 2001. I am taught that I have to step aside and give my opportunities over to marginalized groups for the sake of equality, but wouldn't that make me marginalized? At work and school we have to take training on how not to be racist or sexually abusive, as though that's inherent in our nature somehow. When I look at the news or social media it's become normalized to be misandrist and just hate men. I was also taught that I can't discuss these things because I have it better than everyone else. I sure hope the latter part is true because I'm still waiting.

With all of this, people still wonder why men are checking out of society. The reasons are so obvious if you just ask men them. Unfortunately, due to not being allowed to talk about them, and having no spaces to talk about them, we're silent about it. This makes it even more difficult because when we are given an opportunity to discuss these things, we find it very difficult to articulate our experience because we've been taught not to talk about it.

So I can't talk about my problems. I have a lot of problems. I don't have a future, and I'm expected to sacrifice my future for everyone else. People see men as threatening and inherently bad, and in need of re-education. Gee, I wonder why guys have given up.

you speak absolute truth to that

 

[lunious]

Skewed can probably mean anything right now. I think the topic poster framed his question in a way where he probably meant one thing (why are suicides higher in men and what drives them to do it more).

So from a vague or "skewed" context (for all I know, English is the topic poster's second language, so my presumption was a general inquiry vs an analytical one).

what did i do

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

what did i do

Nothing

 

[BradGuy123]

But once again having a company being sold and being on the losing end of a merger is destroying me. And the market sucks. And I'm just sick of this nonsense anyway.

I can totally relate to this. I've been there multiple times. I'm so tired of worrying about layoffs, mergers/acquisitions, bad economy, jobs being outsourced or automated, etc. Why can't I just have the same job until I retire? I'm so sick of this crap.

 

[Nightingale93]

In fairness, I think some of the statistics might be skewed because they rely on either self-reported data, or hospital visits. Obviously completed suicides are easy to see, but what about a guy like me who has held a gun to their head but was unable to pull the trigger? Is that a suicide attempt? Well, according to the statistics it isn't because nobody knows about it. If I OD'd on pills and went to the hospital however I'd be counted in the attempt statistics. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the overall suicide attempt rate is equal, and if women choose more lethal methods the completed suicides would also be equal.

However, let's talk about why men would be more driven to completing suicides, as that's what the statistics show.

I heard from a psychiatrist who runs a YouTube channel that half of men who kill themselves in his experience don't have any mental illness, but kill themselves because they think through things a lot, and genuinely believe that suicide is the only answer. Their job sucks, their relationships suck, maybe they don't have a job or relationships. They see no way out. They've tried going to therapy, they've tried getting help. Many men don't have any social support. They don't have anyone they can talk to. They're not allowed to talk to anyone.

Most homeless people are men. Most prisoners are men. Men are also more likely to abuse drugs. There are huge problems men face in society and this drives us to drug use, suicide, etc. Unfortunately, the problems I mentioned aren't the ones to worry about. The biggest problem that men face is even talking about the issue brings a lot of people in to shame us for even discussing it. This made me feel completely invisible. Not only that, but I don't care about anything anymore. I don't care that I'm addicted to drugs, and the only reason I'm not part of the prison population is because the consequences of committing a crime would be too severe for me.

Those things I just listed about homelessness and the prison population. Those aren't the problems. They're symptoms of the problem.

I was taught in school that I bear the original sin of oppressing people hundreds of years ago when I was born in 2001. I am taught that I have to step aside and give my opportunities over to marginalized groups for the sake of equality, but wouldn't that make me marginalized? At work and school we have to take training on how not to be racist or sexually abusive, as though that's inherent in our nature somehow. When I look at the news or social media it's become normalized to be misandrist and just hate men. I was also taught that I can't discuss these things because I have it better than everyone else. I sure hope the latter part is true because I'm still waiting.

With all of this, people still wonder why men are checking out of society. The reasons are so obvious if you just ask men them. Unfortunately, due to not being allowed to talk about them, and having no spaces to talk about them, we're silent about it. This makes it even more difficult because when we are given an opportunity to discuss these things, we find it very difficult to articulate our experience because we've been taught not to talk about it.

So I can't talk about my problems. I have a lot of problems. I don't have a future, and I'm expected to sacrifice my future for everyone else. People see men as threatening and inherently bad, and in need of re-education. Gee, I wonder why guys have given up.

Well said dude. So many people argue against this saying, "talk to someone" or "seek out a therapist", etc., but the reality is far more complicated than they care to admit.
I hope this changes soon but I don't see that happening unfortunately.

I can totally relate to this. I've been there multiple times. I'm so tired of worrying about layoffs, mergers/acquisitions, bad economy, jobs being outsourced or automated, etc. Why can't I just have the same job until I retire? I'm so sick of this crap.

Yes, I relate to this so hard. There is so much that is out of our control and yet we are blamed for it regardless. I'm currently in the recruiting process for the military since I was never able to find a lifelong job that I could stay in the private sector. Some of my past jobs involved working at a motorcycle/powersports dealership, and I absolutely loved working there, the atmosphere was great, etc. Unfortunately because of the economy, and because of some of the decisions made by the owners, there were layoffs, massive negative changes, etc. I would gladly stay there permanently if I could, but no, this world just loves to tear everything apart.

 

[mothlover402]

For two reasons.
One: Men choose more fatal methods then women
Two: Their often scared to seek help because of toxic masculinity and "needing to be strong"

 

[I_go_in]

Because men have objectively shittier lives and have less safety nets than women in the 21st century. Literally it's evolutionary for men to want to care for women no matter the crazy feminist professor who told you otherwise in college. Women like children are automatically helped out by virtue of evolution by men. You can skirt by much longer as a woman by being helpless. A helpless man is seen as disgusting and trash by society. Get mad all you want it's basic evolutionary psychology and obvious to anyone who has lived more than 10 years on this planet. You're just going to be able to get along better when at rock bottom as a woman. It's the same reason 90% of homeless people are men. You REALLY have to fuck up to be a homeless woman. Also when men say they want to die they actually mean it and aren't trying to manipulate people around them. Which is why men use guns and violent methods that actually work over the shitty non deadly poison "suicide attempts" women usually use.

Suicide rates are 80% higher in men than in women. What are some genuine reasons that drive men to suicide more?

Men have shittier lives. Less safety nets. If you fail it's seen more as your problem while women aren't judged as harshly it's very simple if you actually care about evolution and aren't some neoliberal that actually believes the sexes are exactly the same.

For two reasons.
One: Men choose more fatal methods then women
Two: Their often scared to seek help because of toxic masculinity and "needing to be strong"

Holy shit you managed to even blame the victim. It's "toxic masculinity" that makes men kill themsevles and it's their own fault. Amazing. Maybe men and women are actually different due to the hormones that course through them? Nah let's just blame men. They are just toxic and that's why they kill themselves. I think you zoomers are just doomed lmao. I can't wait to leave this world soon if this the the average person going to be in it. Absolutely shocking. Men wanting to be masculine is just evil but the ideal woman is just larping as a "toxic" man. Fuck you youngins are so fucked. And there's literally zero issue with men "needing to be strong." It's in our DNA. It's our nature. The modern world has zero adventure or things that bring out the masculine ethos that literally created the nice little insular safe world you currently live in. My god, this forum becomes more Reddit by the day. Midwit as fuck. For "atheists" you sure have tons of dogmatic beliefs based on nothing but what you want the world to be. Disgusting.

 

[darksouls]

in my country,
women who bear children to maintain the state are given preferential treatment,
they receive a great deal of support,
they dont have to work,
and the state finances good, large apartments for them,
that is why we have far more homeless men than women,
homeless men are often treated like garbage and cannot find housing

 

[BradGuy123]

I do feel that in general men are socialized to be tough. I recently read that women are twice as likely seek therapy than men. A long time ago I had a friend told me that the only time men should cry is when someone dies. This is toxic masculinity and it's not healthy. We shouldn't keep our feelings bottled up inside. I have a small inner circle I can talk to. I think it's healthy to do this and even go to therapy, which I've done several times in my life. If you don't have anyone to talk to and can't afford therapy, AI can be helpful as a last resort. Whatever you do, don't tell anyone you are thinking of CTB. In my state, a therapist is obligated to break confidentiality and have you committed for evaluation.

 

[dragonofenvy]

I do feel that in general men are socialized to be tough. I recently read that women are twice as likely seek therapy than men. A long time ago I had a friend told me that the only time men should cry is when someone dies. This is toxic masculinity and it's not healthy. We shouldn't keep our feelings bottled up inside. I have a small inner circle I can talk to. I think it's healthy to do this and even go to therapy, which I've done several times in my life. If you don't have anyone to talk to and can't afford therapy, AI can be helpful as a last resort. Whatever you do, don't tell anyone you are thinking of CTB. In my state, a therapist is obligated to break confidentiality and have you committed for evaluation.

While this is true, testosterone also inhibits men's ability to cry. There's also issues of alexithymia that most men have that makes therapy very challenging for them. Not only that, but when men have a problem we have identified it and want to fix it. Therapy doesn't do that. Medications won't fix your problem. A lot of men who kill themselves don't have mental illness, they have shit lives, and therapy doesn't fix a shit life. Coaching however, can help.

Two: Their often scared to seek help because of toxic masculinity and "needing to be strong"

Toxic masculinity isn't the reason. This is an oversimplified way of looking at the problem without attempting to address it. In the 1950s when gender roles were at their height, suicide rates are lower than they are now. More people than ever are attending therapy, yet the problems are getting worse. So how would it be toxic masculinity? In fact, in my experience, whenever I tried to get help, I was blatantly ignored. My own mother even said "I don't care" when I told her I was suicidal. This is not a one-sided issue. A lot of men do seek out help, but we're dismissed, and eventually we turn into people like me who don't trust the systems that failed them. Most men today do seek out help because it's accessible, but that help doesn't work for them because therapy as it is today isn't designed for men. Men have much different ways of coping and solving their problems than women do. The solution isn't giving a blanket term of "oh toxic masculinity is the problem" but rather discussing solutions that will work for men since a lot of us haven't been able to find them yet.