Discussion Why ligature strangulation isn't a more common method ?

[AntisocialGG]

For me it seems like a reasonable method with easy to get materials that most of the people have, doesn't seem painful or slow. So why are most of the people here talking about SN ? i just don't get it.

 

[Frenchy222]

Probably because it doesn't work.

 

[AntisocialGG]

Probably because it doesn't work.

If it doesn't work why wouldn't they remove the megathread or modify it to give warnings ? That doesn't really make sense.

 

[Galahad]

For me it seems like a reasonable method with easy to get materials that most of the people have, doesn't seem painful or slow. So why are most of the people here talking about SN ? i just don't get it.

I can find my carotid pulse but I can't make myself pass out. I personally can't imagine succeeding with the night night method.
One day I'll start proof reading for typos before posting

 

[IRHEXED]

I'm seriously looking at the night-night method combined with alcohol and benzos. It's pretty much the same thing without the struggle, right?

 

[Galahad]

I'm seriously looking at the night-night method combined with alcohol and benzos. It's pretty much the same thing without the struggle, right?

It's the same fatal effect of compression of carotid arteries.

 

[Sheepskin]

For me it seems like a reasonable method with easy to get materials that most of the people have, doesn't seem painful or slow. So why are most of the people here talking about SN ? i just don't get it.

I was also wondering this after reading about it. Judging from the replies in the thread discussing this method it seems like it's more difficult to perform than it sounds due to both psychological and physical elements. I've seen a few people talk about how they've tried it a couple of times and failed thanks to the conditions I mentioned prior and in order to CTB with this method they keep attempting to get used to the feeling and better at blocking their veins. Seems very draining and not worth the hassle

 

[AntisocialGG]

I was also wondering this after reading about it. Judging from the replies in the thread discussing this method it seems like it's more difficult to perform than it sounds due to both psychological and physical elements. I've seen a few people talk about how they've tried it a couple of times and failed thanks to the conditions I mentioned prior and in order to CTB with this method they keep attempting to get used to the feeling and better at blocking their veins. Seems very draining and not worth the hassle

I understand, (out of context: you joined a day after i joined lol), i've not tried it but seems like just something you need to prepare to before doing it correctly. But i do agree, for some people it might be draining and something that with depression sounds almost impossible. So that makes more sense to me.

 

[Galahad]

I was also wondering this after reading about it. Judging from the replies in the thread discussing this method it seems like it's more difficult to perform than it sounds due to both psychological and physical elements. I've seen a few people talk about how they've tried it a couple of times and failed thanks to the conditions I mentioned prior and in order to CTB with this method they keep attempting to get used to the feeling and better at blocking their veins. Seems very draining and not worth the hassles

Blocking jugular veins instead of carotid arteries can create pressure in the head/brain and cause a nasty headache.


As I say, I can feel my carotid pulse. Just once have I felt a little dizzy but I haven't been able to pass out.

If I felt more confident I would consider it as a method.

 

[JesiBel]

Although the death mechanism in strangulation is the same as in hanging (blocking the oxygenated blood supply to the brain), here you depend on how tightly you can tie the ligature to exert pressure and compress the arteries. In hanging, however, you use your suspended weight to achieve this.

Just because it's a little more difficult doesn't mean it's ineffective.

In my opinion, it takes even more determination to use this method, and it may be a bit more 'extreme'.

Comparing it again to hanging, once you step into the void, your weight and gravity will do their work, closing the ligature knot and compressing the neck. In strangulation, it's all up to you.

There are several cases of strangulation (including forensic photos) in these books (may be a useful reading):

Forensic pathology of asphyxial deaths by Dr. Sudhir K. Gupta
Printed book page n° 103, Pdf page n° 118
Printed book page n° 117, Pdf page n° 132

Asphyxiation, suffocation, and neck pressure deaths by Burkhard Madea
Printed book page n° 180, Pdf page n° 193
Printed book page n° 70, Pdf page n° 83

Autoerotic deaths: practical forensic and investigative perspectives by Anny Sauvageau and Vernon J. Geberth
Printed book page n° 123, Pdf page n° 140

 

[AntisocialGG]

Although the death mechanism in strangulation is the same as in hanging (blocking the oxygenated blood supply to the brain), here you depend on how tightly you can tie the ligature to exert pressure and compress the arteries. In hanging, however, you use your suspended weight to achieve this.

Just because it's a little more difficult doesn't mean it's ineffective.

In my opinion, it takes even more determination to use this method, and it may be a bit more 'extreme'.

Comparing it again to hanging, once you step into the void, your weight and gravity will do their work, closing the ligature knot and compressing the neck. In strangulation, it's all up to you.

There are several cases of strangulation (including forensic photos) in these books (may be a useful reading):

Forensic pathology of asphyxial deaths by Dr. Sudhir K. Gupta
Printed book page n° 103, Pdf page n° 118
Printed book page n° 117, Pdf page n° 132

Asphyxiation, suffocation, and neck pressure deaths by Burkhard Madea
Printed book page n° 180, Pdf page n° 193
Printed book page n° 70, Pdf page n° 83

Autoerotic deaths: practical forensic and investigative perspectives by Anny Sauvageau and Vernon J. Geberth
Printed book page n° 123, Pdf page n° 140

Good post, seems like you've dedicated a good amount of time on this topic. I wonder how you got here, i mean, how can i achieve this level of investigation on these type of subjects ?

 

[JesiBel]

Good post, seems like you've dedicated a good amount of time on this topic. I wonder how you got here, i mean, how can i achieve this level of investigation on these type of subjects ?

When I arrived here, I first looked up information about the available methods. When I found the one that best suited me, I began to research it further.

I started using the search bar when I had access to it and found some good threads with information, some from several years ago. With this information as a base, it's easier to search on sites outside the forum.

By understanding the basics of the method and its death mechanism, possible scenarios, and real-life cases (also videos of attempts), you gain more confidence and it's easier to delve deeper and continue learning.

Spoiler

This is a good site for reading medical research. You can sometimes find complete PDFs there. You can write keywords like "death, suicide, the name of the method e.g. hanging/strangulation" and you will get several results. Sometimes this material may include explicit/sensitive photos, so it's best to be forewarned.

 

[AreWeWinning]

For me it seems like a reasonable method with easy to get materials that most of the people have, doesn't seem painful or slow. So why are most of the people here talking about SN ? i just don't get it.

I think it isn't more popular, because it's not an effective method.

When it comes to effectiveness, it's not just about whether a method could work in theory, but how realistic it is for a person to execute it successfully. For a person to manually tie a ligature around their neck tight enough to constrict blood flow effectively and cause the person to die is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Consider that it's a lot easier to pass out by partial hanging – because gravitation also works in our favour – yet a lot of people can't even do that. I don't know what makes people think they'll be able to pull a ligature tight enough by using their hand. The problem is not that it's physically impossible or that it requires a lot of strength, but that our natural instincts prevent us from doing it.

I think ligature strangulation is also riskier. In full – or even partial – hanging, if someone passes the threshold and loses consciousness (and remains unconscious), it's pretty much guaranteed that they'll die. As the body goes limp, pressure on the neck only increases. However, with ligature strangulation, everything depends on how tight you pull the ligature initially. If you accidentally don't pull it tight enough, you could end up in a bad situation. I wouldn't want to take that risk.

Don't quote me on this, but I also believe that it's an extremely rare method of suicide. When I search for it, all I find are some isolated case reports. Most cases of ligature strangulation are not suicides but homicides or erotic play gone wrong. And legends about Chinese factory worker kids using this method and whatnot are just that... Urban legends.

If it doesn't work why wouldn't they remove the megathread or modify it to give warnings ? That doesn't really make sense.

The reason it's not removed and it's included in the resources compilation probably has more to do with the fact that someone wrote a comprehensive post on it rather than the method's effectiveness. I'm not familiar with every method listed there, but I can't imagine all of them are very effective. That's just a list of various resources. I wouldn't place too much significance on whether a method is included there or not.

My personal opinion is that it's a bad method. I would even call it a non-method. According to statistics, it's hardly ever used. There must be a reason for that. Even on this forum, all the discussions about it are just empty, theoretical discussions. Good for spending time, but otherwise useless. I haven't seen anyone using it successfully. But then again, that's true for a lot of other methods discussed here.

Even the author of the thread backtracked on it

Also, consider the fact that even the person (@anagram) who wrote the notes on ligature strangulation – so they had good knowledge of it and intended to use it – eventually decided to use full suspension. This perfectly shows how bad this method is.

They not only decided not to use it, but literally called ligature strangulation "bullshit" (see quotes below), and said they regretted making that thread (the one I linked above, and which is also included in the resources compilation).

Why did you quit on the ligature method you were the op for

It's bullshit. It works but hanging is just way easier in my opinion.

I have seen one of your posts on strangulation.

I regret making that thread because it's just much easier to hang.

 

[TimingOut]

When I arrived here, I first looked up information about the available methods. When I found the one that best suited me, I began to research it further.

I started using the search bar when I had access to it and found some good threads with information, some from several years ago. With this information as a base, it's easier to search on sites outside the forum.

By understanding the basics of the method and its death mechanism, possible scenarios, and real-life cases (also videos of attempts), you gain more confidence and it's easier to delve deeper and continue learning.

Spoiler

This is a good site for reading medical research. You can sometimes find complete PDFs there. You can write keywords like "death, suicide, the name of the method e.g. hanging/strangulation" and you will get several results. Sometimes this material may include explicit/sensitive photos, so it's best to be forewarned.

Have you done any research on CTB (also) INSTANTLY with a knife or even without any tools?

 

[wolfpaxhd]

Have you done any research on CTB (also) INSTANTLY with a knife or even without any tools?

Knife is only possible if you're either aroused by pain, force yourself/dont care about the pain, or if you numb yourself.

its not recommended to use as a method and you'll likely create a worser problem.

 

[RadioGaga]

I think it isn't more popular, because it's not an effective method.

When it comes to effectiveness, it's not just about whether a method could work in theory, but how realistic it is for a person to execute it successfully. For a person to manually tie a ligature around their neck tight enough to constrict blood flow effectively and cause the person to die is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Consider that it's a lot easier to pass out by partial hanging – because gravitation also works in our favour – yet a lot of people can't even do that. I don't know what makes people think they'll be able to pull a ligature tight enough by using their hand. The problem is not that it's physically impossible or that it requires a lot of strength, but that our natural instincts prevent us from doing it.

I think ligature strangulation is also riskier. In full – or even partial – hanging, if someone passes the threshold and loses consciousness (and remains unconscious), it's pretty much guaranteed that they'll die. As the body goes limp, pressure on the neck only increases. However, with ligature strangulation, everything depends on how tight you pull the ligature initially. If you accidentally don't pull it tight enough, you could end up in a bad situation. I wouldn't want to take that risk.

Don't quote me on this, but I also believe that it's an extremely rare method of suicide. When I search for it, all I find are some isolated case reports. Most cases of ligature strangulation are not suicides but homicides or erotic play gone wrong. And legends about Chinese factory worker kids using this method and whatnot are just that... Urban legends.



The reason it's not removed and it's included in the resources compilation probably has more to do with the fact that someone wrote a comprehensive post on it rather than the method's effectiveness. I'm not familiar with every method listed there, but I can't imagine all of them are very effective. That's just a list of various resources. I wouldn't place too much significance on whether a method is included there or not.

My personal opinion is that it's a bad method. I would even call it a non-method. According to statistics, it's hardly ever used. There must be a reason for that. Even on this forum, all the discussions about it are just empty, theoretical discussions. Good for spending time, but otherwise useless. I haven't seen anyone using it successfully. But then again, that's true for a lot of other methods discussed here.

Even the author of the thread backtracked on it

Also, consider the fact that even the person (@anagram) who wrote the notes on ligature strangulation – so they had good knowledge of it and intended to use it – eventually decided to use full suspension. This perfectly shows how bad this method is.

They not only decided not to use it, but literally called ligature strangulation "bullshit" (see quotes below), and said they regretted making that thread (the one I linked above, and which is also included in the resources compilation).

Then honestly the moderators of this website SHOULD REMOVE IT THEN! I mean cmon! If the author himself calls the method bullshit AND regrets making the post then someone should delete it! Or the moderators! Or HELL move it to the non methods tab or page then!

 

[Hiro Uchiha]

In this era, SN is, what we could describe, trending. Mainly because it's less fear inducing? Strangulation is, to many, more terrifying, less peaceful compared tissue level hypoxia induced by sn poisoning.

 

[TimingOut]

In this era, SN is, what we could describe, trending. Mainly because it's less fear inducing? Strangulation is, to many, more terrifying, less peaceful compared tissue level hypoxia induced by sn poisoning.

Unfortunately SN is strictly controlled worldwide.

 

[Hiro Uchiha]

Unfortunately SN is strictly controlled worldwide.

You're not wrong in some degree, but believe it or not, in some regions within Asia, SN is relatively easy to procure. Speaking from experience and other Asia related SN posts and resources.

Yes, SN is fairly easier to obtain in Asia compared to other regions. Some omline/physical stores of chem distributor will have SN readily available otc. I'm from the Philippines and ordered my SN online with no fuss.

This may have been the case since SN intentional poisoning is significantly more uncommon here compared to the west.

Still, not everywhere in Asia is as relaxed in terms of regulation on SN compared to my country. I believe things are going to change tho. SN is getting more and more attention now at an exponential rate.

 

[Fuzzy94]

I think it isn't more popular, because it's not an effective method.

When it comes to effectiveness, it's not just about whether a method could work in theory, but how realistic it is for a person to execute it successfully. For a person to manually tie a ligature around their neck tight enough to constrict blood flow effectively and cause the person to die is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Consider that it's a lot easier to pass out by partial hanging – because gravitation also works in our favour – yet a lot of people can't even do that. I don't know what makes people think they'll be able to pull a ligature tight enough by using their hand. The problem is not that it's physically impossible or that it requires a lot of strength, but that our natural instincts prevent us from doing it.

I think ligature strangulation is also riskier. In full – or even partial – hanging, if someone passes the threshold and loses consciousness (and remains unconscious), it's pretty much guaranteed that they'll die. As the body goes limp, pressure on the neck only increases. However, with ligature strangulation, everything depends on how tight you pull the ligature initially. If you accidentally don't pull it tight enough, you could end up in a bad situation. I wouldn't want to take that risk.

Don't quote me on this, but I also believe that it's an extremely rare method of suicide. When I search for it, all I find are some isolated case reports. Most cases of ligature strangulation are not suicides but homicides or erotic play gone wrong. And legends about Chinese factory worker kids using this method and whatnot are just that... Urban legends.



The reason it's not removed and it's included in the resources compilation probably has more to do with the fact that someone wrote a comprehensive post on it rather than the method's effectiveness. I'm not familiar with every method listed there, but I can't imagine all of them are very effective. That's just a list of various resources. I wouldn't place too much significance on whether a method is included there or not.

My personal opinion is that it's a bad method. I would even call it a non-method. According to statistics, it's hardly ever used. There must be a reason for that. Even on this forum, all the discussions about it are just empty, theoretical discussions. Good for spending time, but otherwise useless. I haven't seen anyone using it successfully. But then again, that's true for a lot of other methods discussed here.

Even the author of the thread backtracked on it

Also, consider the fact that even the person (@anagram) who wrote the notes on ligature strangulation – so they had good knowledge of it and intended to use it – eventually decided to use full suspension. This perfectly shows how bad this method is.

They not only decided not to use it, but literally called ligature strangulation "bullshit" (see quotes below), and said they regretted making that thread (the one I linked above, and which is also included in the resources compilation).

To clarify, are you saying that with ligature strangulation, you can go limp and end up with a smaller neck circumference causing your ligature to not be tight enough anymore? Even if you start off with it super tight?

(I know, fsh is far more reliable but unfortunately due to disability I'm very limited in what methods I can make work for me, so looking at this one. My thought is to use zip ties - I'm strong enough to tighten them plenty, and there have been successful cases with zip ties in the medical/forensic literature, but if my neck circumference can become smaller post-tightening, then that's a worry... well, I mean, tightening the ligature forces the circumference to be smaller anyway, but if it could then become smaller and make the ligature loose partway through the process... that's a worry?

Edit: if neck muscles are buried under fat, how would this impact this?

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

Probably because it doesn't work.

That's the impression I get. If partial hanging is so hard to get right, how could you just lie there and strangle yourself?

 

[Fuzzy94]

To clarify, are you saying that with ligature strangulation, you can go limp and end up with a smaller neck circumference causing your ligature to not be tight enough anymore? Even if you start off with it super tight?

(I know, fsh is far more reliable but unfortunately due to disability I'm very limited in what methods I can make work for me, so looking at this one. My thought is to use zip ties - I'm strong enough to tighten them plenty, and there have been successful cases with zip ties in the medical/forensic literature, but if my neck circumference can become smaller post-tightening, then that's a worry... well, I mean, tightening the ligature forces the circumference to be smaller anyway, but if it could then become smaller and make the ligature loose partway through the process... that's a worry?

Edit: if neck muscles are buried under fat, how would this impact this?

Does anyone else know anything about this?

 

[cakedog]

If you accidentally don't pull it tight enough, you could end up in a bad situation

can you elaborate a little bit more on this please?
i thought that even if you don't fully compress the carotids if the brain isn't pumped with the needed amount of blood it will still die anyways
i thought the worst case scenario would be postponing death a few minutes but i'm not sure so sorry if what i'm asking is stupid or dumb

 

[AreWeWinning]

To clarify, are you saying that with ligature strangulation, you can go limp and end up with a smaller neck circumference causing your ligature to not be tight enough anymore? Even if you start off with it super tight?

No, that's not what I meant. I wasn't talking about the physics of ligature strangulation. I was referring to the fact that it requires an active, forceful action on the person's part to execute the method. From this perspective, ligature strangulation is very similar to stabbing yourself with a knife, or cutting your veins with a blade. The problem is not that these are physically impossible to do but that people are unable to do them because their reflexes and innate instincts/automatic behaviours make it impossible. This is called survival instinct (SI), which is not something the person can control. Of course, there are exceptions, but those are rare.

Compare this to methods that are much more reliable and lethal. For example, hanging, firearms, or jumping, just to name a few. These methods don't require the person to exert a great amount of physical force to be successful. Once the person takes the leap (kicks their stool over, pulls the trigger, jumps) they are almost guaranteed to die. And most importantly, kicking a stool over, pulling a trigger, or jumping doesn't require a significant amount of physical effort. They are easy to do. This is the reason these methods are much more reliable/lethal and easier to execute.

(I know, fsh is far more reliable but unfortunately due to disability I'm very limited in what methods I can make work for me, so looking at this one. My thought is to use zip ties - I'm strong enough to tighten them plenty, and there have been successful cases with zip ties in the medical/forensic literature, but if my neck circumference can become smaller post-tightening, then that's a worry... well, I mean, tightening the ligature forces the circumference to be smaller anyway, but if it could then become smaller and make the ligature loose partway through the process... that's a worry?

If you're looking into ligature strangulation because you don't have any other options, that's understandable. However, if you have the physical strength to execute ligature strangulation, then you probably do have other options.

Still, if you think that ligature strangulation is the right method for you, and you're confident that you can do it, it could work. While known cases are very rare, they do exist.

The problem is not the circumference of your neck and whatnot. It is possible to pull the zip tie tight enough. The problem is not that you don't have the physical strength. The problem is that when you're facing death, your arms may go weak and you might not be able to use that physical strength that you normally have. This is how SI works. This is something that you might not be able to control.

Edit: if neck muscles are buried under fat, how would this impact this?

I don't know. I would guess negatively, but I haven't seen any studies regarding this, so I'm just speculating. I don't know how much it matters and whether it matters at all.

can you elaborate a little bit more on this please?
i thought that even if you don't fully compress the carotids if the brain isn't pumped with the needed amount of blood it will still die anyways
i thought the worst case scenario would be postponing death a few minutes but i'm not sure so sorry if what i'm asking is stupid or dumb

If you compress the carotids tight enough to make you pass out, you'll probably die, given enough time. However, if there is still partial blood flow, that will delay death. I don't know by how much. It could be a few minutes, a few hours, or even days. I don't know.

The point I'm trying to make is that if we need to speculate and think about this in the first place, that's already bad. It means that the method is not good enough, and I cannot trust it. I would want a method that I can 100% trust, without even questioning whether it'll work.

For example, with hanging (partial or full), if you lose consciousness and remain unconscious, it's virtually guaranteed that you'll die within a short amount of time. With jumping, if there is enough height, it's almost guaranteed that you'll die. I'm not suggesting these methods. I'm bringing them up as a comparison and to illustrate the difference in reliability.

 

[Cepheuss]

Its not more popular cause it is very hard to make it work