Venting Why is society so anti ctb

[wanttodie12345]

Why does society seem ok with allowing so much suffering? Not talking about the obvious suffering caused by war and its consequences, which is horrendous.
I'm more venting about the way society watches people fall through the cracks and then claims help is out there. People can't afford access to quality healthcare, food, transportation, housing. But "they" spend time and money shutting down options for peaceful ctb and instead encourage spending money on therapy and "self care". It's easy to say stay positive and it'll get better when you have money in your pocket and a functional body to find employment.
I wish we could apply for assisted dying for 18+ without a terminal diagnosis. Perhaps a short waiting period with some counseling to help one clarify their reasons? Paperwork that protects the providers from lawsuits by bereaved family? It would be a slippery slope deciding who gets access for sure.
But providing peaceful, accessible ctb options had to be better than the way society forces people to live in declining health and drawn out suffering. It's like society is being built to cause mental illness.

 

[enduringwinter]

You're right it makes no sense. The main motivation for society to be against ctb I see are that it relies on population to function and that human are inherently afraid of loss and death. But men/the elites/idek who to blame are constantly waging war and killing off entire populations. So why all this fuss about euthanisation and suicide.

I've said before that it's a Western thing, and has only become ubiquitous globally recently. I think it's because granting someone authority over their death makes them god (of their own fate), and that doesn't sit well with or Christianity (I'm really not familiar with this religion, just my guess), and those who fancy themselves authorities. It's similar to the sentiment against abortion: granting women full authority over bestowing life is subconciously upsetting to them.

 

[divinemistress36]

The truth is most people dont give a damn about others sufferings, only a small percentage care

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes, it truly is so terrible how people suffer so much in this cruel, undesirable existence with no painless way out, anti-suicide truly does just lead to way more harm and torment. All I wish for is a peaceful death like never waking again to free me from all pointless suffering in this existence I never would have chose in the first place that caused nothing but pain, I only find comfort in death.

 

[wanttodie12345]

You're right it makes no sense. The main motivation for society to be against ctb I see are that it relies on population to function and that human are inherently afraid of loss and death. But men/the elites/idek who to blame are constantly waging war and killing off entire populations. So why all this fuss about euthanisation and suicide.

I've said before that it's a Western thing, and has only become ubiquitous globally recently. I think it's because granting someone authority over their death makes them god (of their own fate), and that doesn't sit well with or Christianity (I'm really not familiar with this religion, just my guess), and those who fancy themselves authorities. It's similar to the sentiment against abortion: granting women full authority over bestowing life is subconciously upsetting to them.

I'm also not very familiar with Christianity (or any religion really), but it does seem like a power/control thing. Like, the church/capitalism/authority figure needs workers to support the elite, but the workers are suffering and no one cares until the workers want out, then "oh no! We don't have enough workers, the elite will suffer!"
I kinda feel that wanting a painless, quick death is less of a drain on society than slowly suffering until the body eventually gives out. But to be clear, this would be an individual request as opposed to advocating that anyone with certain situations should request euthanasia. Everyone's circumstances, abilities, and desires are different - I think everyone should have the opportunity to decide what a peaceful life/death should be for themselves, without the judgement and interference of those in power.
That being said, I do see reasons for restricting access somewhat - I don't want anyone to feel coerced, and I could see euthanasia meds being used on unwilling/unsuspecting individuals if just anyone could access them, which would also be bad - but I wish there was a safe and accessible option for those of us that have considered our choices and are deciding our own fate.

 

[Nikitatos]

I think it's a case of the minority forcing their opinions on other. Parents who have lost a child to suicide are understandably very hurt. People like that are often the ones who make a big stink about it in public. Seems like most families have someone where they would have been better off with an earlier, humane death rather than years of misery to end their life.

Cancer, Parkinsons, etc, etc. are often better off dying earlier.

 

[mckf]

Each person's suffering is so complex and most of society, especially those who are having normal lives can't understand or empathize others. Neither do they like to hear stories of sadness as it ruins their own mental health and find it bothersome. They are quick to blame the individual for being "lazy" or making "excuses" and try find a quick solution like "go see a doctor" which in most times doesn't help at all.

 

[Tarrasque]

I don't think people understand what it's like to be so hurt that you seek death. They can't begin to process the idea that choosing oblivion over life is a reasonable choice to make, which I guess is understandable. I wouldn't know how to communicate this to a normal person so that they properly get it.

I also think that people misguidedly try to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Someone is miserable enough to kill themself, and people prevent them from having the ability. Since suicide is caused by misery and we prevented a suicide, they think they have managed to de-escalate the misery, but now you just have people who are trapped and miserable. This is one of the reasons I really hate that suicide rate is used as a statistic for the wellbeing of a population and a target metric for governments, one of the easiest ways and most direct ways to reduce the suicide rate is to restrict the freedoms of people who aren't happy rather than fix the problems that make them miserable.

 

[4everHeartBroken]

The truth is most people dont give a damn about others sufferings, only a small percentage care

THIS.

 

[ToilThenDie]

Suicide to me is only fair. We didnt ask to be born, so why should we have to live in a world where we suffer

 

[TapeMachine]

Because, in my opinion, the purpose of life is simply to survive. That's it. Survival.

Each animal is biologically programmed to strive to continue living and passing on their genes in hopes that this continues to happen generation after generation, ad infinitum.

But I think some of us must not have received the memo in our DNA about how "precious" life is? I don't really know.

I just know that my brain isn't seeking the same things as the majority of the human species' around me. Which makes me broken, glitchy, weak, I guess? Eh, So be it. I'd just like to opt out of this bullshit "survival of the fittest" rat race already. I find it immensely overrated.

 

[divinemistress36]

Because, in my opinion, the purpose of life is simply to survive. That's it. Survival.

Each animal is biologically programmed to strive to continue living and passing on their genes in hopes that this continues to happen generation after generation, ad infinitum.

But I think some of us must not have received the memo in our DNA about how "precious" life is? I don't really know.

I just know that my brain isn't seeking the same things as the majority of the human species' around me. Which makes me broken, glitchy, weak, I guess? Eh, So be it. I'd just like to opt out of this bullshit "survival of the fittest" rat race already. I find it immensely overrated.

I feel like there are a lot of old souls on here

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

Better question is, why does society seem so ok with bringing children into this world so haphazardly. If the ethics committee won't acknowledge the cure for suffering, it should at least acknowledge the prevention of it.

 

[divinemistress36]

Better question is, why does society seem so ok with bringing children into this world so haphazardly. If the ethics committee won't acknowledge the cure for suffering, it should at least acknowledge the prevention of it.

People let their hormones and emotions over ride logic

 

[sugarb]

Why does society seem ok with allowing so much suffering? Not talking about the obvious suffering caused by war and its consequences, which is horrendous.
I'm more venting about the way society watches people fall through the cracks and then claims help is out there. People can't afford access to quality healthcare, food, transportation, housing. But "they" spend time and money shutting down options for peaceful ctb and instead encourage spending money on therapy and "self care". It's easy to say stay positive and it'll get better when you have money in your pocket and a functional body to find employment.
I wish we could apply for assisted dying for 18+ without a terminal diagnosis. Perhaps a short waiting period with some counseling to help one clarify their reasons? Paperwork that protects the providers from lawsuits by bereaved family? It would be a slippery slope deciding who gets access for sure.
But providing peaceful, accessible ctb options had to be better than the way society forces people to live in declining health and drawn out suffering. It's like society is being built to cause mental illness.

It's at least somewhat natural/instinctual. Humans take a long time to develop, so if you're in a small hunter-gatherer tribe and one of the able-bodied adults kills themselves, that's a massive blow both psychologically and materially that could doom the whole group. so it follows that we'd try to stop that from happening.

In the modern day the material cost usually isn't as high- you don't NEED your sister to be alive to harvest grain so you don't starve like you would in the olden days of yore- but it still creates a negative impact emotionally so people will try to stop it if only to save themselves from feeling sad/guilty that someone died

Because, in my opinion, the purpose of life is simply to survive. That's it. Survival.

Each animal is biologically programmed to strive to continue living and passing on their genes in hopes that this continues to happen generation after generation, ad infinitum.

But I think some of us must not have received the memo in our DNA about how "precious" life is? I don't really know.

I just know that my brain isn't seeking the same things as the majority of the human species' around me. Which makes me broken, glitchy, weak, I guess? Eh, So be it. I'd just like to opt out of this bullshit "survival of the fittest" rat race already. I find it immensely overrated.

my thoughts exactly lol. People will pressure you to no end to produce! reproduce! work! buy! experience! lust! do! go! be! create! enjoy! feel! think! improve! strive! etc etc. And I literally just don't care and don't want to be what everyone expects- that is, an animal. Fuck that. I deny you, nature.

 

[TapeMachine]

It's at least somewhat natural/instinctual. Humans take a long time to develop, so if you're in a small hunter-gatherer tribe and one of the able-bodied adults kills themselves, that's a massive blow both psychologically and materially that could doom the whole group. so it follows that we'd try to stop that from happening.

In the modern day the material cost usually isn't as high- you don't NEED your sister to be alive to harvest grain so you don't starve like you would in the olden days of yore- but it still creates a negative impact emotionally so people will try to stop it if only to save themselves from feeling sad/guilty that someone died

my thoughts exactly lol. People will pressure you to no end to produce! reproduce! work! buy! experience! lust! do! go! be! create! enjoy! feel! think! improve! strive! etc etc. And I literally just don't care and don't want to be what everyone expects- that is, an animal. Fuck that. I deny you, nature.

Produce. Reproduce. Strive.

I will do none of the above. I deny you as well, nature.

All fucks that could have been given once upon a time have since expired. And frankly, I do not think that the preservation of the human species is all that vital in the slightest, particularly where my genetics are involved. Lol. But what do I know? I'm just a weak link anyway.

Pardon my ranting; I'm feeling especially misanthropic today. Aside from all of that, I wanted to say that you made some valid points in your post (how a death within one's tribe/community could have dire consequences for the entirety of those still living, etc.) :)

 

[sugarb]

Produce. Reproduce. Strive.

I will do none of the above. I deny you as well, nature.

All fucks that could have been given once upon a time have since expired. And frankly, I do not think that the preservation of the human species is all that vital in the slightest, particularly where my genetics are involved. Lol. But what do I know? I'm just a weak link anyway.

Pardon my ranting; I'm feeling especially misanthropic today. Aside from all of that, I wanted to say that you made some valid points in your post (how a death within one's tribe/community could have dire consequences for the entirety of those still living, etc.) :)

Right? On a tangent- it's irritating and somewhat disturbing how instinct and social norms fuck with thought. Our brains desperately want us to be biologically successful, so they try all sorts of things to get us to ignore logical conclusions that detract from that. Suicide, choosing not to reproduce, some forms of pacifism, etc: If you've experienced it you know what I mean

No worries. Things can't be all sunshine and rainbows 24/7 here on Sanctioned Suicide, right? And thank you! I try ^^

 

[wanttodie12345]

It's at least somewhat natural/instinctual. Humans take a long time to develop, so if you're in a small hunter-gatherer tribe and one of the able-bodied adults kills themselves, that's a massive blow both psychologically and materially that could doom the whole group. so it follows that we'd try to stop that from happening.

Oh, interesting take! I've been looking at it from the modern/capitalist perspective- can't pay back my loans, can't spend money if I'm dead. And if too many members of a society choose death, that says something about quality of life. It seems easier for the powers that be to limit access to methods of suicide under the guise of caring than to solve the conditions that might lead one to suicide.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

It's at least somewhat natural/instinctual. Humans take a long time to develop, so if you're in a small hunter-gatherer tribe and one of the able-bodied adults kills themselves, that's a massive blow both psychologically and materially that could doom the whole group. so it follows that we'd try to stop that from happening.

In the modern day the material cost usually isn't as high- you don't NEED your sister to be alive to harvest grain so you don't starve like you would in the olden days of yore- but it still creates a negative impact emotionally so people will try to stop it if only to save themselves from feeling sad/guilty that someone died

my thoughts exactly lol. People will pressure you to no end to produce! reproduce! work! buy! experience! lust! do! go! be! create! enjoy! feel! think! improve! strive! etc etc. And I literally just don't care and don't want to be what everyone expects- that is, an animal. Fuck that. I deny you, nature.

Since the tribal aspect is much less, I think at the familial level parents have to deal with the prospect of appearing as having failed or done something wrong. For the ones where this is true, the abusers and neglectors, it's easier to deflect onto the suicider a malicious intent, moral failing or personal weakness. There's a strong social expectation to give parents the benefit of the doubt and even therapists will urge children that were abused to consider their parents as having "done their best". There's also a general social contract that says "we're all in this together" and one must suffer because others do. Of course this "all for one, one for all" mentality unravels once money is at stake but no one will openly admit that.

Then there's the social contagion aspect, once people start doing it, it becomes less alien and other's start to consider it more seriously. It begins to reflect on the society at a macro level much like it does on the family level. "What are they doing wrong? I wonder what REALLY goes on there that so many people want to ctb?".

 

[sugarb]

Oh, interesting take! I've been looking at it from the modern/capitalist perspective- can't pay back my loans, can't spend money if I'm dead. And if too many members of a society choose death, that says something about quality of life. It seems easier for the powers that be to limit access to methods of suicide under the guise of caring than to solve the conditions that might lead one to suicide.

Thanks! Imo there's probably not a group of billionaires sitting around saying "ugh all our wageslaves are killing themselves this is gonna wreck the quarterly margins" but I'd agree that politicians as a whole probably don't care about individual suicides; probably it's for voters, "common decency", or image . I imagine a candidate that's pro-choice for CTB would be labeled pro-death and subsequently lose the election due to most people being pro-life

Since the tribal aspect is much less, I think at the familial level parents have to deal with the prospect of appearing as having failed or done something wrong. For the ones where this is true, the abusers and neglectors, it's easier to deflect onto the suicider a malicious intent, moral failing or personal weakness. There's a strong social expectation to give parents the benefit of the doubt and even therapists will urge children that were abused to consider their parents as having "done their best". There's also a general social contract that says "we're all in this together" and one must suffer because others do. Of course this "all for one, one for all" mentality unravels once money is at stake but no one will openly admit that.

Then there's the social contagion aspect, once people start doing it, it becomes less alien and other's start to consider it more seriously. It begins to reflect on the society at a macro level much like it does on the family level. "What are they doing wrong? I wonder what REALLY goes on there that so many people want to ctb?".

Agreed. The social contagion aspect is definitely very significant

 

[doneforlife]

You're right it makes no sense. The main motivation for society to be against ctb I see are that it relies on population to function and that human are inherently afraid of loss and death. But men/the elites/idek who to blame are constantly waging war and killing off entire populations. So why all this fuss about euthanisation and suicide.

I've said before that it's a Western thing, and has only become ubiquitous globally recently. I think it's because granting someone authority over their death makes them god (of their own fate), and that doesn't sit well with or Christianity (I'm really not familiar with this religion, just my guess), and those who fancy themselves authorities. It's similar to the sentiment against abortion: granting women full authority over bestowing life is subconciously upsetting to them.

In my religion's mythology, one person had the "boon" to decide when to die. It definitely was called a "boon" bestowed by Almighty God. Now , go figure, why was it referred to as a boon .

 

[allgoodthanks]

I think the topic of suicide is a taboo in the society because most people are frustrated and fed up of their own lives, and they too have had quite frequent thoughts about ctb. So maybe this world is a big bucket full of crabs as far as ctb is concerned, because nobody wants others to get out on their own will. Though I might be wrong :)

 

[sserafim]

Thanks! Imo there's probably not a group of billionaires sitting around saying "ugh all our wageslaves are killing themselves this is gonna wreck the quarterly margins"

That's exactly what's happening lol. The main reason why suicide is prevented is due to monetary and economic reasons. If enough wageslaves killed themselves, the entire system would collapse

 

[wanttodie12345]

In my religion's mythology, one person had the "boon" to decide when to die. It definitely was called a "boon" bestowed by Almighty God. Now , go figure, why was it referred to as a boon .

I pray every night to not wake up. Seems I didn't get this gift, haha. That would be wonderful.

 

[lawlietsph]

I think the only people that are against suicide are the ones who never ever experienced what it's like to feel the deepest, darkest, most painful mental hell - so they think it's something that can be fixed and you can just get better.

I genuinely believe that once you experience this kind of mental torture, you'll never blame anyone for ctb.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I imagine most parents don't want to lose their children to suicide and it tends to be young suicides that create the most upset.

I suppose, by legitimising suicide as an option, maybe the powers that be are afraid of just how many people might take it. I expect they make more money off us while we are alive.

Maybe cynical of me but I suspect a lot of decisions are driven by money and power. Parents aren't likely to support the right to die and maybe they are more likely to vote or campaign against those who do advocate for the right to die.

Overall, our society clearly leans more towards pro-life- otherwise, we could all be open about how we feel. So- governments are in effect only reinforcing popular opinion that in many/most cases, people 'shouldn't' be considering suicide.

I expect our governments and individual MP's have lucrative agreements with pharamceutical companies. It perhaps benefits them directly to keep people alive but dependent on expensive drugs.

 

[sugarb]

That's exactly what's happening lol. The main reason why suicide is prevented is due to monetary and economic reasons. If enough wageslaves killed themselves, the entire system would collapse

To be blunt, that's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. You're assuming that the world is run entirely by amoral billionaire sociopaths who work together and have no motivation other than profit. There are definitely crazy heartless rich people in the government and economics is a significant factor in policymaking but if you think morality doesn't play into it or that suicide is a total negative for all rich people you're incorrect

Say the council of wealthy elites both A. unilaterally wants to prevent suicide for economic reasons and B. has enough power to do so. Why aren't gun laws stricter? Firearms are the most lethal, commonly available method; most successful suicides involve them. They're also semi-expensive, generally reducing their access to people with a bit of money and thieves.

Why would the most effective method be so readily available? Why are actually economically productive people allowed to CTB just as much if not more than the economically unproductive (disabled, homeless, impoverished, etc)?

There's not a billionaire consensus (except on taxation lol) here- plenty of amoral companies don't care if their products kill people who then can't buy more products. The NRA doesn't care if people who buy guns CTB, preventing future sale of pharmaceuticals to that person. They don't care if dozens of children are killed in school shootings, thus preventing future food sales to those children. They aren't lobbying for drug or food companies. They're lobbying for gun companies. They want the government to make buying guns easier to increase sales.

Realistically the economic incentive is tied into actual government policy as an additional reasoning. you're imagining the system to be more competent and unified than it actually is.

 

[escape_from_hell]

one word is sufficient

evil

To be blunt, that's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. You're assuming that the world is run entirely by amoral billionaire sociopaths who work together and have no motivation other than profit. There are definitely crazy heartless rich people in the government and economics is a significant factor in policymaking but if you think morality doesn't play into it or that suicide is a total negative for all rich people you're incorrect

Say the council of wealthy elites both A. unilaterally wants to prevent suicide for economic reasons and B. has enough power to do so. Why aren't gun laws stricter? Firearms are the most lethal, commonly available method; most successful suicides involve them. They're also semi-expensive, generally reducing their access to people with a bit of money and thieves.

Why would the most effective method be so readily available? Why are actually economically productive people allowed to CTB just as much if not more than the economically unproductive (disabled, homeless, impoverished, etc)?

There's not a billionaire consensus (except on taxation lol) here- plenty of amoral companies don't care if their products kill people who then can't buy more products. The NRA doesn't care if people who buy guns CTB, preventing future sale of pharmaceuticals to that person. They don't care if dozens of children are killed in school shootings, thus preventing future food sales to those children. They aren't lobbying for drug or food companies. They're lobbying for gun companies. They want the government to make buying guns easier to increase sales.

Realistically the economic incentive is tied into actual government policy as an additional reasoning. you're imagining the system to be more competent and unified than it actually is.

emergent properties
few humans have directed will, even the supposedly super smurt billionaires

 

[wanttodie12345]

Realistically the economic incentive is tied into actual government policy as an additional reasoning. you're imagining the system to be more competent and unified than it actually is.

I'm sure there are individuals or groups that have thought about selfish reasons to prevent suicide, even ones that would prefer to see suffering, but yeah, no way is everything that competent or unified to actively prevent suicides.

 

[NotesFromTheShadow]

Why does society seem ok with allowing so much suffering? Not talking about the obvious suffering caused by war and its consequences, which is horrendous.
I'm more venting about the way society watches people fall through the cracks and then claims help is out there. People can't afford access to quality healthcare, food, transportation, housing. But "they" spend time and money shutting down options for peaceful ctb and instead encourage spending money on therapy and "self care". It's easy to say stay positive and it'll get better when you have money in your pocket and a functional body to find employment.
I wish we could apply for assisted dying for 18+ without a terminal diagnosis. Perhaps a short waiting period with some counseling to help one clarify their reasons? Paperwork that protects the providers from lawsuits by bereaved family? It would be a slippery slope deciding who gets access for sure.
But providing peaceful, accessible ctb options had to be better than the way society forces people to live in declining health and drawn out suffering. It's like society is being built to cause mental illness.

I'd argue it's because Society doesn't want to acknowledge how fucked up it really is. Yes, there's plenty of people who do not want to live, who in fact can't stand living. Who are fucking depressed every damn day because the way we do things, as a society are so messed up in so many ways.

And then we're surprised: "What a dilemma, kids killing themselves all over the place, kids being addicts, kids being desperate in all possible ways.

Well, society maybe it's time to reconsider, how about you look at yourself for a minute, rather than putting us into those "mental" institutions that make things even worse. In the 80s it was lobotomy, now it's filling in tests for all sorts of "mental disorders" and benzos. Seems we're almost getting it, or not?

Maybe the suicidality is just a symptom of someone seeing through all of the shit?