Why is it anyone's business?

[pony No.2]

I've been asking this question for a while, yet I can't really get an answer. Why is it anyone's business if someone chooses to not want to live a life they never asked for? Why is it anyone's business if someone is rightfully tired of the burden of society and their personal problems and decide to take matters into their own hands? Why is it anyone's business if a person chooses to harm themselves as a coping mechanism if it doesn't harm anyone else? Everyone has the right to not live if they are unsatisfied or suffering in their life, mental health problems aren't temporary in the end, it'll always stick and pop up under the right circumstances.

What exactly do they get out of preventing someone from taking matters into their hands besides not getting sued or blamed for someone's death? What if that person never wanted help and refuses to accept it when it's forced upon them?

I thought about asking my therapist questions like this, if there wasn't the threat of being involuntarily committed in a ward, people would probably speak up more about what's bothering them without worrying about half their rights being taken away for something they can't control.

Rant over, this has just been weighing me down internally. I self harm and I'm angry about how nosy people are about it, I'm not harming another person by doing it so why care.

Edit: This was mostly a vent about people getting involved when I self harm or attempt suicide and me getting angry at them, specifically medical professionals. I didn't mean to dismiss anyone's grievance really, I have trouble processing empathy and I sometimes find it annoying to understand. This was me lashing out at people who want to help when I don't want it at all. Sorry.

 

[PureEndless]

Because it's about their pain, not yours.

That's what they say.

Or rather, that's what they try not to say and they make it about a bunch of other things.

But what they really mean, comes through. That's what they mean.

 

[Kanoh]

Because we are slaves and property of our governments.

 

[pony No.2]

Because it's about their pain, not yours.

That's what they say.

Or rather, that's what they try not to say and they make it about a bunch of other things.

But what they really mean, comes through. That's what they mean.

Sounds very selfish of them, they have no control over what someone decides to with their life whether it saddens them or not. It's basically them saying, "Because you gotta keep going and get back out there, that's life."

 

[Hollowman]

There's not much money to be made off of dead people.

 

[Sleeper System]

Humans are predisposed to complex emotions due to the simple nature of being human. We're at our core a tribal species. Designed to operate most efficiently when we're together. Some people have a sense of empathy that cause them to move in opposition of negative actions. Some people seek to redeem themselves by helping others. Some people want societies approval. Some people define themselves by their utility to others.

So many reasons that it's not really possible to determine individual motive other than to say humans simply act based on what they feel and believe.
Easiest answer is some people want to be saved. Just because you don't doesn't mean they're wrong for trying. People aren't mind readers. They can't see your heart or mind so they can't determine if you are someone that needs help or someone they should just leave alone. In those cases, they will act based on who THEY are as an individual person. I find it annoying but what are we going to do? Take all the people with noble intentions and discard them? We don't have the right. So you just gotta live and let live in those instances.

 

[woofwag]

I see a lot of people's replies about capitalism and not being able to make money off dead people and totally agree with that. But let's also not dismiss the other reasons.

Like not to sound like a dick but like... empathy? Haven't you ever wanted to help another struggling person even though it's not your problem? Ever seen someone in a situation similar and been able to relate and want to offer some positive advice? Like isn't that the whole point of this forum, to help people find a peaceful end, even though it isn't our problem to care in the first place? Just feels a bit hypocritical to say that people only care about preserving your life for their own selfish reasons when this website itself is called "selfish" by the general public for offering unconventional advice. Also, let's not dismiss other people's pain in grief. Is it selfish to want to keep someone else alive just because it would hurt to lose them? Yeah, probably. But I get why. I couldn't handle losing a friend. I would do whatever it takes to try to sway the people I love out of doing that. Because yeah, I fuckin love them, and selfishly don't want to lose them despite my views on respecting those who want to die. I think if they could demonstrate their commitment to death, I would respect it. But I could never help them. Just couldn't do it.

Also, let's not forget that a lot of suicidal people do change their mind. Isn't it worth it to try to help someone if they can improve? Avoid all that grief and let them experience life a bit longer. I think it's worth that. Despite the inherent flaws in the medical system, I get where they're coming from. I don't think it's fair to pretend that they only care out of desire to preserve their own integrity and happiness. People are far more nuanced than that. I know plenty of suicidal people who do try to stop other people from CBT'ing and value life despite not being able to do it themselves. Let's not dismiss other people's feelings out of our own pain and desire for death.

 

[PI3.14]

People try to protect their own self interests, this include our families too.

Our death will send a ripple effect that will affect so many people, mostly in a negative way.

People don't want that, and so everyone tries to push us to accept a life we're not happy with and one that is causing us suffering.

They're basically implicitly saying "Better you than us".

 

[socksnsandles]

Because it's about their pain, not yours.

That's what they say.

Or rather, that's what they try not to say and they make it about a bunch of other things.

But what they really mean, comes through. That's what they mean.

perfectly said

 

[pony No.2]

I see a lot of people's replies about capitalism and not being able to make money off dead people and totally agree with that. But let's also not dismiss the other reasons.

Like not to sound like a dick but like... empathy? Haven't you ever wanted to help another struggling person even though it's not your problem? Ever seen someone in a situation similar and been able to relate and want to offer some positive advice? Like isn't that the whole point of this forum, to help people find a peaceful end, even though it isn't our problem to care in the first place? Just feels a bit hypocritical to say that people only care about preserving your life for their own selfish reasons when this website itself is called "selfish" by the general public for offering unconventional advice. Also, let's not dismiss other people's pain in grief. Is it selfish to want to keep someone else alive just because it would hurt to lose them? Yeah, probably. But I get why. I couldn't handle losing a friend. I would do whatever it takes to try to sway the people I love out of doing that. Because yeah, I fuckin love them, and selfishly don't want to lose them despite my views on respecting those who want to die. I think if they could demonstrate their commitment to death, I would respect it. But I could never help them. Just couldn't do it.

Also, let's not forget that a lot of suicidal people do change their mind. Isn't it worth it to try to help someone if they can improve? Avoid all that grief and let them experience life a bit longer. I think it's worth that. Despite the inherent flaws in the medical system, I get where they're coming from. I don't think it's fair to pretend that they only care out of desire to preserve their own integrity and happiness. People are far more nuanced than that. I know plenty of suicidal people who do try to stop other people from CBT'ing and value life despite not being able to do it themselves. Let's not dismiss other people's feelings out of our own pain and desire for death.

I have mixed feelings when it comes to having a suicidal friend, I feel like I already know I can't help them and that I should give them space and give advice if they want it. I don't know how to help someone who's suicidal when I am myself, and I don't understand grief. I would never help someone I care about with suicide neither, I'd feel very sad if my friend took their own life but I'd try to see their side of it and understand why they did so. I'm unsure about my emotions, sorry if I sounded judgemental. I may sound dismissive because I'm tired of people not caring what I have to go through and tell me to keep living despite it, I also have a hard time feeling empathy and I always have.

Humans are predisposed to complex emotions due to the simple nature of being human. We're at our core a tribal species. Designed to operate most efficiently when we're together. Some people have a sense of empathy that cause them to move in opposition of negative actions. Some people seek to redeem themselves by helping others. Some people want societies approval. Some people define themselves by their utility to others.

So many reasons that it's not really possible to determine individual motive other than to say humans simply act based on what they feel and believe.
Easiest answer is some people want to be saved. Just because you don't doesn't mean they're wrong for trying. People aren't mind readers. They can't see your heart or mind so they can't determine if you are someone that needs help or someone they should just leave alone. In those cases, they will act based on who THEY are as an individual person. I find it annoying but what are we going to do? Take all the people with noble intentions and discard them? We don't have the right. So you just gotta live and let live in those instances.

I think they should probably just focus on those who want to be saved instead, I would end up getting mad and pushing them away even if they're not wrong for trying, it's like I have this thing in my mind that goes, "I don't care how my death would make you feel, I'M the one who has to live with mental health issues and be dependent on antidepressants, I want to kill myself for a reason!". I don't know if I actually stand by that thought, I don't think I do. I think I'd discard them for their noble intentions because of my stubbornness. What do you mean by we don't have the right and "live and let live in those instances"? Did you mean let them have their own opinions and emotions on someone who refuses help?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I suspect it's largely the normies protecting one another. So, a parent who has lost a child to suicide or, fears losing one will be keen to prevent other parents going through that.

I think there is also a genuine belief that we are mentally unsound. So- our decision to suicide is made by an illness- not us. Plus, I think they truly believe that the majority of people can be cured and return back to living a regular life.

Plus- as a society- it loses an investment effectively. It seems likely other people's taxes contributed to caring for our parents during pregnancy. Then, our health and education after that. So- society has made an investment that it expects to see returned.

Same I suppose goes for any kind of self harm or drug use. If it renders us likely unable to work or, an unreliable employee- society starts poking its nose in. Ultimately I suppose because people don't necessarily want to 'carry' others. Most especially if they think an 'illness' is self inflicted. They may choose to ignore what made the person vulnerable to making those choices to begin with.

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand, it's just all so cruel and terrible to me how we exist in this anti-suicide world where people do all they can to make it so others suffer for as long as possible against their wishes, all I want is to be gone and I'll just always prefer to not exist than suffer in this existence I just always saw as the most cruel, terrible mistake, for me non-existence is just the only peace, I see so much cruelty in how the suffering and torture of existing is seen as to force and prolong no matter what.

 

[itsgone2]

There's not much money to be made off of dead people.

We're also at a point where they're not gonna be able to make money off of the alive people. Layoffs are astoundingly high. Something has shifted in corporations don't really care if we're working now. The assumption must be we will find something somewhere else. But no one really cares. They just wanna hit numbers and if numbers mean layoffs then that's what happens.

It's impacting businesses all over, but since the stock market continues to rise, no one cares. At least no politician cares.

But I would definitely agree that a therapist still wants you alive to keep money coming out of you. Corporations have changed. They just don't care about workers existing
Sorry, I rant about this a lot.
If I felt like living longer, it would be interesting to see how AI evolves. It's definitely taking jobs, but it's also not profitable. It's pretty much propping up the stock market. The whole thing could crash.

 

[fkyou]

People try to protect their own self interests, this include our families too.

Our death will send a ripple effect that will affect so many people, mostly in a negative way.

People don't want that, and so everyone tries to push us to accept a life we're not happy with and one that is causing us suffering.

They're basically implicitly saying "Better you than us".

I sure you if I died years ago it would've been a positive ripple effect both for them and me they are now suffering with me miserable they deserve it for insisting on me getting better too much btw I didn't get better

 

[woofwag]

I have mixed feelings when it comes to having a suicidal friend, I feel like I already know I can't help them and that I should give them space and give advice if they want it. I don't know how to help someone who's suicidal when I am myself, and I don't understand grief. I would never help someone I care about with suicide neither, I'd feel very sad if my friend took their own life but I'd try to see their side of it and understand why they did so. I'm unsure about my emotions, sorry if I sounded judgemental. I may sound dismissive because I'm tired of people not caring what I have to go through and tell me to keep living despite it, I also have a hard time feeling empathy and I always have.

That's totally fair. I don't expect anyone to be able to offer answers to those who are suicidal, friend or no. It's a really hard thing to know how to handle generally, especially if you're struggling with suicidal feelings yourself. I totally get not being able to be empathetic to those who are concerned about us due to processing our own pain too. I have become gradually more jaded to people caring over the years myself. But still, I think it's important to acknowledge their pain too. It upsets me when 90% of the people I see on this site choose to exclusively see the bad in people wanting to stop us from dying.

I think they should probably just focus on those who want to be saved instead,

Ok I understand this perspective, but I do have to disagree here. As mentioned before there still are a lot of people who change their minds. I know forced treatment has saved people. While inpatient facilities can be traumatizing, sometimes it's what someone needs. I wish they were operated differently, I wish they didn't cost any money, I wish they didn't traumatize people, and honestly, I don't think I could ever forcibly send someone to treatment myself. But I can't deny that there are facilities out there that are helpful to people. A lot of suicidal people don't actually want to die, we just want a way to relieve the pain. I know people personally who have found peace without death through those facilities. It's definitely not the right solution for everyone, and I know that even speaking personally it would only make my situation worse. But still. Everyone's situation is complicated. I just wish they didn't use the ward as the default for suicidal people. But it is still a helpful tool, and it's in place for more reasons than just trying to force people to stay alive.

Sorry if my original message came off as harsh btw. I think I'm just a bit disheartened seeing so many people on here not able to understand why anyone would want us to live beyond selfish reasons.

 

[pony No.2]

That's totally fair. I don't expect anyone to be able to offer answers to those who are suicidal, friend or no. It's a really hard thing to know how to handle generally, especially if you're struggling with suicidal feelings yourself. I totally get not being able to be empathetic to those who are concerned about us due to processing our own pain too. I have become gradually more jaded to people caring over the years myself. But still, I think it's important to acknowledge their pain too. It upsets me when 90% of the people I see on this site choose to exclusively see the bad in people wanting to stop us from dying.


Ok I understand this perspective, but I do have to disagree here. As mentioned before there still are a lot of people who change their minds. I know forced treatment has saved people. While inpatient facilities can be traumatizing, sometimes it's what someone needs. I wish they were operated differently, I wish they didn't cost any money, I wish they didn't traumatize people, and honestly, I don't think I could ever forcibly send someone to treatment myself. But I can't deny that there are facilities out there that are helpful to people. A lot of suicidal people don't actually want to die, we just want a way to relieve the pain. I know people personally who have found peace without death through those facilities. It's definitely not the right solution for everyone, and I know that even speaking personally it would only make my situation worse. But still. Everyone's situation is complicated. I just wish they didn't use the ward as the default for suicidal people. But it is still a helpful tool, and it's in place for more reasons than just trying to force people to stay alive.

Sorry if my original message came off as harsh btw. I think I'm just a bit disheartened seeing so many people on here not able to understand why anyone would want us to live beyond selfish reasons.

Its alright, I have trouble understanding tone/meaning behind words. I think they should really just give that person time to think about it and talk to them to weigh out their problems and take a deeper look at what's going on before forcing recovery, which can do more harm than good, I hate it and would never personally want to go through it and I hate people who do force it. It's ultimately oneselfs choice to recover, seek help, or stop harming themselves.

Even seeing their perspective, I can't help but feel pissed off. At the end of the day I'm the one who has to live with mental illness and struggle to do basic tasks while being emotionally unstable, it's not about them and how they feel when they aren't me and living my life or process emotions like I do so they have no say. I understand if I sound selfish, but I just can't emphasize with them. I DON'T want to stop self harming and that's my choice, I DON'T want help or be saved. Other people can change their minds and that's fine. What they're not going to do is force me to recover when I don't want to, whatever I do to myself is nobodies business unless I seek them out first.

 

[Alpacachino]

You're right.It's absolutely no one's business whether we take our life or not. Except maybe, of course, Pegasos or Dignitas.

 

[pony No.2]

You're right.It's absolutely no one's business whether we take our life or not. Except maybe, of course, Pegasos or Dignitas.

Yeah, it's ultimately our choice and right to decide when we didn't ask to be born

 

[SpencerSees]

If it's someone you know, it's most likely because it's comfortable having you around. While that's a good thing, and you should think about if you want to hurt them by ending your life, people often just get used to another's presence. Not saying that they don't love you, but also they benefit you from having you around more than if you were in fact gone.

If it's a stranger, it's 100% moral plus points. People don't see depression, trauma and other mental conditions (or physical ones with an affect on your mental health) as real pain. Despite it being more accepted now, it's still rarely viewed as the debilitating condition they are. Everyone wants to be a savior, and it's easier to give hope to someone who, in their mind, is just sad or very hurt, than like. a cancer patient.

 

[pony No.2]

If it's someone you know, it's most likely because it's comfortable having you around. While that's a good thing, and you should think about if you want to hurt them by ending your life, people often just get used to another's presence. Not saying that they don't love you, but also they benefit you from having you around more than if you were in fact gone.

If it's a stranger, it's 100% moral plus points. People don't see depression, trauma and other mental conditions (or physical ones with an affect on your mental health) as real pain. Despite it being more accepted now, it's still rarely viewed as the debilitating condition they are. Everyone wants to be a savior, and it's easier to give hope to someone who, in their mind, is just sad or very hurt, than like. a cancer patient.

Yeah its a stranger, like some a psych hold because someone snitched on me

 

[Blueberry Panic]

People make it "their business" because humans get attached without asking permission. When someone hurts themselves or dies, it doesn't stay private... humans are nosy and these other people get wrecked by it, even if it feels unfair and annoying. Society hates dealing with that emotional messes, so it tries to control it instead.

Also, a lot of the outrage isn't care. It's fear. If choosing not to live is treated as valid, then everyone has to admit that life isn't automatically worth it that everyonewas doomed from the start. That scares people who are barely holding it together themselves.
Being exhausted makes sense. Questioning the whole system makes sense. You don't owe anyone optimism or gratitude because of how you feel.

 

[pony No.2]

People make it "their business" because humans get attached without asking permission. When someone hurts themselves or dies, it doesn't stay private... humans are nosy and these other people get wrecked by it, even if it feels unfair and annoying. Society hates dealing with that emotional messes, so it tries to control it instead.

Also, a lot of the outrage isn't care. It's fear. If choosing not to live is treated as valid, then everyone has to admit that life isn't automatically worth it that everyonewas doomed from the start. That scares people who are barely holding it together themselves.
Being exhausted makes sense. Questioning the whole system makes sense. You don't owe anyone optimism or gratitude because of how you feel.

Thank you for this