Discussion why is inhalation of inert gases not more frequently used?

[popbob]

Why is inhalation of inert gases (such as nitrogen or helium) not a more popular way to ctb as it is the most peaceful / least painful method i can think of?


Is it really that hard to get, or expensive? or are there any other reasons its not more widely used?

 

[DaizyPusher]

idk i'm tired that sounds like alot of work

 

[uklad38]

Why is inhalation of inert gases (such as nitrogen or helium) not a more popular way to ctb as it is the most peaceful / least painful method i can think of?


Is it really that hard to get, or expensive? or are there any other reasons its not more widely used?

I tried with helium and it didn't work, probably wasn't pure is my thinking now so I wouldn't try it again.

If someone could guarantee it was pure and would work I would. A bit involved with setup etc too

 

[eesabtbad]

compared to hanging i think it's just too much work to do and idk about other countries but where i live buying helium/nitrogen is pretty complicated

 

[Fadenself00_]

Either expensive, complicated or both.

 

[latetoctb]

After 5 tests and 1 real attempt, I got my gas tank seized and have now moved onto SN method.

It seems pretty easy to mess up if you aren't going all out and getting the EEBD hood as well. Or maybe I'm just not as smart as I thought. I spent ~$250 total to buy everything and to make a homemade exit bag.

I spent over 2 hours total with the exit bag on and gas flowing and I can say, though it was completely painless, it is very uncomfortable if you aren't losing consciousness quickly. But that shouldn't be an issue if you can do it properly.

 

[volo]

Here's what I've read on this forum so far:

Someone posted that they spent $800+ for everything. Perhaps you can find that persons posts, they had pictures of the hose etc.
Helium for balloons is not pure any more, it contains 20% air.
When I read about it in the book, it looked complicated; has a lot of parts, you have to make sure you choose the right valve, that everything connects right. then you gotta practice putting down the hood.
Sometimes people convulse in the process of ctb-ing, kick the gas tank over, or pull the hood off unconsciously.
Also, some people live with parents, roommates… it may not be easy to conceal obtaining all of the parts, and the whole setup. Tank is not that small.
In at least one country now, the gas tanks are sold to businesses only.

 

[isthisthingon]

After 5 tests and 1 real attempt, I got my gas tank seized and have now moved onto SN method.

It seems pretty easy to mess up if you aren't going all out and getting the EEBD hood as well. Or maybe I'm just not as smart as I thought. I spent ~$250 total to buy everything and to make a homemade exit bag.

I spent over 2 hours total with the exit bag on and gas flowing and I can say, though it was completely painless, it is very uncomfortable if you aren't losing consciousness quickly. But that shouldn't be an issue if you can do it properly.

How would you describe the uncomfortableness? 2 hours is a long time.

 

[Fadenself00_]

gas tank seized

How? On which legal basis?

 

[volo]

, it is very uncomfortable if you aren't losing consciousness quickly. But that shouldn't be an issue if you can do it properly.

Yeah, that's what they always say: you failed because you didn't do it properly.
Maybe it's not that easy- to do it 'Properly'.

If you're old and have terminal illness American Exit org will assist with advice. But you gotta execute yourself.

 

[Fadenself00_]

How would you describe the uncomfortableness? 2 hours is a long time.

Maybe they meant tinkering?

 

[latetoctb]

How would you describe the uncomfortableness? 2 hours is a long time.

2 hours total from all the testing and attempt. Went through a whole 40cf tank.

Uncomfortable because the lack of oxygen makes you breath heavy, heart beat faster, sweat and you are experiencing pretty intense time dilation and confusion.

I was able to solve math problems in my head but keeping track of the time by myself was impossible. It wasn't until my last test where I set up a timer in front of me and ended up passing out before I could realize and woke up to see I had been out for over 20 minutes.

How? On which legal basis?

After my last test in which I mentioned just above, I recovered at first normally (extreme exhaustion and sleepiness for about 2 hours after each time). But then as I was feeling almost normal again, my symptoms started getting worse at a rapid rate about 7 hours after I pulled the bag off my head.

I started to experience heavy breathing like I couldn't get enough oxygen and extreme loss of circulation in my limbs, eventually having my hands and then arms curl up uncontrollably into my chest with light pain starting at its worst. As the loss of circulation started to enter my forearms, I started to become concerned I may have done permanent damage to my brain.

From all my research, falling unconscious for a long period of time from hypoxia and then waking up can be disastrous on the brain. I ended up going to the ER where my symptoms peaked in their extremity but after a couple more hours, my body returned to normal.

After many tests, the doctors found nothing wrong with me and I felt pretty much normal the next day.

Unfortunately, I didn't lie and told them what happened since I was pretty convinced of permanent damage at the time and I was hospitalized for a week total.

While hospitalized, I told my dad off for being a dick, he went to my home and took my gas tank. It wasn't police or anything, even though I had to talk to one at the ER and he placed a Peace Warrant (I think its called) on me.

Yeah, that's what they always say: you failed because you didn't do it properly.
Maybe it's not that easy- to do it 'Properly'.

If you're old and have terminal illness American Exit org will assist with advice. But you gotta execute yourself.

It seemed my biggest issue was figuring out how tight the band needed to be around my neck. The wording for it was very confusing for me but I found more success the tighter I made it.

But yes, it does seem like most people don't get it right the first time.

 

[Fadenself00_]

2 hours total from all the testing and attempt. Went through a whole 40cf tank.

Uncomfortable because the lack of oxygen makes you breath heavy, heart beat faster, sweat and you are experiencing pretty intense time dilation and confusion.

I was able to solve math problems in my head but keeping track of the time by myself was impossible. It wasn't until my last test where I set up a timer in front of me and ended up passing out before I could realize and woke up to see I had been out for over 20 minutes.

After my last test in which I mentioned just above, I recovered at first normally (extreme exhaustion and sleepiness for about 2 hours after each time). But then as I was feeling almost normal again, my symptoms started getting worse at a rapid rate about 7 hours after I pulled the bag off my head.

I started to experience heavy breathing like I couldn't get enough oxygen and extreme loss of circulation in my limbs, eventually having my hands and then arms curl up uncontrollably into my chest with light pain starting at its worst. As the loss of circulation started to enter my forearms, I started to become concerned I may have done permanent damage to my brain.

From all my research, falling unconscious for a long period of time from hypoxia and then waking up can be disastrous on the brain. I ended up going to the ER where my symptoms peaked in their extremity but after a couple more hours, my body returned to normal.

After many tests, the doctors found nothing wrong with me and I felt pretty much normal the next day.

Unfortunately, I didn't lie and told them what happened since I was pretty convinced of permanent damage at the time and I was hospitalized for a week total.

While hospitalized, I told my dad off for being a dick, he went to my home and took my gas tank. It wasn't police or anything, even though I had to talk to one at the ER and he placed a Peace Warrant (I think its called) on me.

It seemed my biggest issue was figuring out how tight the band needed to be around my neck. The wording for it was very confusing for me but I found more success the tighter I made it.

But yes, it does seem like most people don't get it right the first time.

If the bag setup was otherwise solid, I would also assume impurity..(?) Was the helium maybe 80% helium 20% air?

 

[latetoctb]

If the bag setup was otherwise solid, I would also assume impurity..(?) Was the helium maybe 80% helium 20% air?

No it was 99% Nitrogen. Filled from a welding supply shop.

I'm pretty sure it was the band tightness around my neck letting in too much oxygen as I inhaled. Like I mentioned, as I increased the tightness, the better the results were for my last 2 tests.

But who knows, it could have been the size of the bag, the hose strapped at a bad angle, maybe I didn't properly hyperventilate beforehand. Not sure.

 

[volo]

ended up passing out before I could realize and woke up to see I had been out for over 20 minutes.

How/why did u wake up?

While hospitalized, I told my dad off for being a dick, he went to my home and took my gas tank. It wasn't police or anything, even though I had to talk to one at the ER and he placed a Peace Warrant (I think its called) on me.

what the hell is peace warrant? Is this UK?

 

[latetoctb]

How/why did u wake up?
Is this on argon?

what the hell is peace warrant? Is this UK?

I woke up because the tank ran out of gas. I was on the last end of it, about 1/5 of the tank left when I started. I wasn't trying to ctb that time, just test more before I filled it back up.

Funny though, I was sitting in an office chair when I started but when I woke up I was on the floor. I had somehow gotten there while unconscious but I didn't have any bruising or soreness so I assume I did it with some grace. The hose was still connected (I used a hose clamp on the oxygen tubing where it sits over the hose barb to ensure it wouldn't come off in case I jolted or moved while unconscious) and the bag was still firm enough around me to keep me unconscious.

I'm in US. It just made it so that I couldn't leave the hospital for 3 days (for some reason only counts for mon-fri and I ended up having to stay over the weekend so 5 days total).

 

[volo]

so 5 days total).

gah!… so sorry to her that.

 

[Fadenself00_]

No it was 99% Nitrogen. Filled from a welding supply shop.

I'm pretty sure it was the band tightness around my neck letting in too much oxygen as I inhaled. Like I mentioned, as I increased the tightness, the better the results were for my last 2 tests.

But who knows, it could have been the size of the bag, the hose strapped at a bad angle, maybe I didn't properly hyperventilate beforehand. Not sure.

Nitrogen is also just barely lighter than air, so that could have contributed as well.

When a gas like Helium enters an exit bag, I'd assume that it rises to the top and then pushes all the heavier gas to the bottom and out of the bag.
If it is only slightly more lighter than air; it won't rise as quickly, and so turbulance from breathing could additionally allow oxygen to contaminate the atmosphere in the bag..


I don't think Nitrogen should be used with an exit bag at all

 

[volo]

Nitrogen is also just barely lighter than air, so that could have contributed as well.

When a gas like Helium enters an exit bag, I'd assume that it rises to the top and then pushes all the heavier gas to the bottom and out of the bag.
If it is only slightly more lighter than air; it won't rise as quickly, and so turbulance from breathing could additionally allow oxygen to contaminate the atmosphere in the bag..


I don't think Nitrogen should be used with an exit bag at all

Wow that's a great point.

But then, there are no other inert gasses left around, to do it with?…. In this case, this should be done in an armchair. Or a sofa, propped with pillows on your sides so you don't fall over. Or some other 'affix yourself upright' way.

 

[Fadenself00_]

Wow that's a great point.

But then, there are no other inert gasses left around, to do it with?…. In this case, this should be done in an armchair. Or a sofa, propped with pillows on your sides so you don't fall over. Or some other 'affix yourself upright' way.

No, there are, Helium is.

 

[latetoctb]

Nitrogen is also just barely lighter than air, so that could have contributed as well.

When a gas like Helium enters an exit bag, I'd assume that it rises to the top and then pushes all the heavier gas to the bottom and out of the bag.
If it is only slightly more lighter than air; it won't rise as quickly, and so turbulance from breathing could additionally allow oxygen to contaminate the atmosphere in the bag..


I don't think Nitrogen should be used with an exit bag at all

N2 is chosen by most it seems so I wouldn't doubt its effectiveness.

But who knows. If only we could add color to each gas to see how they move around exactly.

The placement of the hose and the angle of it should be able to compensate. The pressure coming feels high enough to do a lot of the work of pushing CO2 out and keeping oxygen out as well if your band is tight enough. I never experienced gasping for breath like too much CO2 reaction.

I would highly suggest people who are interested in this method go with an EEBD hood as this solves a lot of the issues that I may have ran into and others too.

In this case, this should be done in an armchair. Or a sofa, propped with pillows on your sides so you don't fall over. Or some other 'affix yourself upright' way.

Yes for my real attempt I was in a recliner with a strap around my torso. I also strapped my gas tank to a coffee table for extra stability

 

[Fadenself00_]

N2 is chosen by most it seems so I wouldn't doubt its effectiveness.

Helium is what is recommended in the PPH and other books.
Iirc, those books stated a lack of nitrogen-based exit-bag reports in the medical/forensic literature.. I would assume that is mostly the case because helium is a lot more accessible due to its use in balloons, but still...

The placement of the hose and the angle of it should be able to compensate. The pressure coming feels high enough to do a lot of the work of pushing CO2 out and keeping oxygen out

A lot of strong pressure could actually be worse. Because you would induce a lot more turbulance, and the Nitrogen only rises slowly, so it "doesn't win in the competition against air due to its own momentum" so-to-speak (I hope you may be able to visualize in your head what I am talking about, but yes, I would like to see a physics/particle simulation of this in action).

 

[latetoctb]

Helium is what is recommended in the PPH and other books.
Iirc, those books stated a lack of nitrogen-based exit-bag reports in the medical/forensic literature.. I would assume that is the case because helium is a lot more accessible due to its use in balloons

The 2025 PPH book references using N2 much more than Helium. Just double checked. Not sure about the other books though.

I think they are about equal in effectiveness. N2 or Argon becoming more popular because it's become harder to get pure helium nowadays. Anti-suicide people have started contacting these companies and most of them now only do 80% helium at most.

 

[volo]

because helium is a lot more accessible due to its use in balloons, but still...

No, no, all of the balloon helium is now cut with 20% air!

 

[Fadenself00_]

No, no, all of the balloon helium is now cut with 20% air!

Depends on where you live.
Here in Germany it is not

 

[latetoctb]

A lot of strong pressure could actually be worse. Because you would induce a lot more turbulance, and the Nitrogen only rises slowly, so it "doesn't win in the competition against air due to its own momentum" so-to-speak (I hope you may be able to visualize in your head what I am talking about, but yes, I would like to see a physics/particle simulation of this in action).

Yes not too much pressure. I used the recommended 15Lpm and this is the pressure I was suggesting feels strong enough to push out the CO2 and keep oxygen out. Depending on how tight the band is around your neck of course.

I did play around with a higher pressure, around 20Lpm and found slightly better results but this could easily just be because my sample size is so low with testing it. And could have just been compensating for the too loose band around my neck.

 

[volo]

Depends on where you live.
Here in Germany it is not

Yeah, I'm talking 'murica.

for the too loose band around my neck.

I read the Exit 2020 book and they suggested the bad should be something like a a headband from the 80's…. FWIW. Maybe that's too tight.
They have some drawings and dimensions for the bag, perhaps you could compare that with yours..

 

[latetoctb]

I read the Exit 2020 book and they suggested the bad should be something like a a headband from the 80's…. FWIW. Maybe that's too tight.
They have some drawings and dimensions for the bag, perhaps you could compare that with yours..

I did get a bag with the exact dimensions they listed in 2025 PPH. Spent $40 on bulk supply of bags that size since I couldn't find many other options for that size.

The bag though, felt too small. It was very close to my nose and I sometimes had to pull it away and make more of a gap as it would be touching my nose at times. I thought maybe this was also another reason as why I failed. It was 14x20 inch

I've since moved onto SN method as I can't really afford a new tank + EEBD hood. I wouldn't want to try further with a homemade exit bag.

 

[volo]

I did get a bag with the exact dimensions they listed in 2025 PPH. Spent $40 on bulk supply of bags that size since I couldn't find many other options for that size.

The bag though, felt too small. It was very close to my nose and I sometimes had to pull it away and make more of a gap as it would be touching my nose at times. I thought maybe this was also another reason as why I failed. It was 14x20 inch

I've since moved onto SN method as I can't really afford a new tank + EEBD hood. I wouldn't want to try further with a homemade exit bag.

Got it. But Exit 2020 book is a different book, by American author. It's not niechke's PPH book..
Dunno how much the tank is, but Sn ain't cheap either. Maybe you can talk your dad into selling it back to the welding shop and getting some money back. Too bad, you got it almost right, that's way too much effort and apparatus wasted. I would love if I had it… I don't like Sn…

 

[latetoctb]

Got it. But Exit 2020 book is a different book, by American author. It's not niechke's PPH book..
Dunno how much the tank is, but Sn ain't cheap either. Maybe you can talk your dad into selling it back to the welding shop and getting some money back. Too bad, you got it almost right, that's way too much effort and apparatus wasted. I would love if I had it… don't like Sn…

Ah I see, yes I'll have to look into that book. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yea you're right SN isnt cheap but it's still cheaper on my tight budget (no real income atm and fam/friends wont give money cause they know I'll use it to ctb). The gas tank alone is ~$150. EEBD hood from my little research was ~$200 for a decent new one. SN = $85, Xanax = $60, Metoclopramide = $65.

I'm not looking forward to swallowing the salty bastard and keeping it down for at least a few minutes.

But I guess I was also a bit scared off the inert gas method from my testing and failures.

Most of the goodbye posts here are SN and it seems to have a great success record if you follow a few simple rules. Not looking for more failed attempts.