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Alcatraz_anthrax

Alcatraz_anthrax

waiting in line to ctb
Jun 27, 2021
59
I have been reading up on assisted suicide and what doesn't make sense if the fact that they have such a strict qualification criteria, in some cases even patients with chronic illnesses are denied.
My question is: why?
Shouldn't assisted suicide be made available to everyone? People didn't ask to be born and now they can't ask for a death either?
It just seems a bit illogical to me.
Everyone over of 18 (or anyone who's an adult in their country) should have access to euthanasia.
It's one of those rare cases in which organizations should only care about whether they're getting paid or not. If you're getting paid, great, now let me ctb.
Please tell me your thoughts.
 
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BeansOfRequirement

BeansOfRequirement

Man-child, loser, autistic, etc.
Jan 26, 2021
5,788
People usually assume that everyone is more or less like themselves. If they "listen" to someone without any hope, someone that isn't meeting the most basic of needs, or someone that just doesn't value the same things that they do--the words get filtered out.

My parents, for an example, have been saying that "everything will work out" and the few times I've mentioned my main problem (can't get gf due to my genesandenvironment) which then leads to poverty and NEETdom, they've said that "it will happen".

And they would be right if they were speaking to themselves, since they are both way more "normie" than I am. For me nothing is going to happen, so I'll never have the lifeforce necessary to do anything but lay in bed and play xbox.

Very few people can understand this, and I know that I can't understand many other people's lives. Alot of posts on here or elsewhere on the web I find myself not being able to understand at all (whining about a narc boyfriend that they themselves chose since he was confident, for an example). Since they are so different from my own personal brand of despair.
 
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Bullit

Bullit

Mage
May 6, 2021
504
Most normies believe that horseshit that ctb is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I used to buy that,too,when I was non suicidal.
Giving a safe,painless ctb to people also kind of seems to be cheating.
"If you really want to ctb," they think," you should be willing to do it the hard way! You want to lay on a couch and drink some shit,and that's it? You're not committed, you're one of those permanent solution to a temporary problem guys!! Jump in front of a train,then ill know you're serious!!"
 
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D

Deleted member 8579

Enlightened
Apr 28, 2021
1,323
I will quote a few comments by others that I've saved:

"Suicide is vilified to ensure that your resource (person) is profitable (That generates a profit / that is a tool / utility) for as long as it exists, people are a RESOURCE. The survival of the group depends on the survival of each of its members, they will not allow people to die not because they are interested in their "feelings", but because of the potential benefit they can bring.
People are a resource, a mere possession of a religious institution/state.
Laws against suicide (and even attempted suicide) prevailed in English common law until 1961. English law perceived suicide as a criminal offence against God and also against the Crown. Until 1822, in fact, the possessions of somebody who died of suicide could even be forfeited to the Crown."

"Domesticated pets like cats and dogs are afforded dignified deaths when they become old and sick.
Yet humans are kept alive artificially to extract as much money as possible. End of life care is big business.
They are also prolonging the worst period of life - old age.
We have so many sick, disabled, old people stuck in their beds, shitting in diapers, all miserable and in pain. God forbid we'd let them die - not in our civilized society! We're gonna pump them up with several different drugs every day! See, life expectancy went up once again, we're advancing as species, technology is saving lives!"

"They need an underclass of workers to keep the cogs turning. That is why society always promotes pro life and pro natalist agendas."

"Once you realize that suicide is an option there is no turning back. It's akin to discovering you've been taking a placebo:
A placebo only has a chance of working if you're unaware of its ineffectiveness; once you become aware of it being a placebo, it's useless.
This is why ordinary people don't like to be reminded of the possibility of suicide."
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
42,509
I agree that it should be a basic human right available to everyone. Society wants to keep us alive at all costs, as dead people cannot pay taxes and society needs people working. Many people who haven't been suicidal themselves also have this mindset that problems can be fixed or at least improved, which is why it is probably hard to get acceptance for euthanasia. They cannot comprehend what it is like to be in a hopeless situation. Legalising euthanasia to everyone would shatter some peoples pro life beliefs that life is always worth living no matter what.
 
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BeyondGoodNEvil

BeyondGoodNEvil

Member
Jun 22, 2020
94
i think the fact that they dont want to allow/legalize assisted suicide to everyone is that a small chance of suicidal people actually recover and go on with their lives.But majority dont improve at all.
i forgot the quote but its not about saving the entire lives its atleast you can save one or something idk.anyway the point is they would rather let us suffer through and hope that few of us actually recover.
Idk why people think the goverment wants to benefit from our suffering.itll be hell alot of cheaper for the goverment to have euthanasia clinic then actually dealing with mental/physical health
 
J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
It
I will quote a few comments by others that I've saved:

"Suicide is vilified to ensure that your resource (person) is profitable (That generates a profit / that is a tool / utility) for as long as it exists, people are a RESOURCE. The survival of the group depends on the survival of each of its members, they will not allow people to die not because they are interested in their "feelings", but because of the potential benefit they can bring.
People are a resource, a mere possession of a religious institution/state.
Laws against suicide (and even attempted suicide) prevailed in English common law until 1961. English law perceived suicide as a criminal offence against God and also against the Crown. Until 1822, in fact, the possessions of somebody who died of suicide could even be forfeited to the Crown."

"Domesticated pets like cats and dogs are afforded dignified deaths when they become old and sick.
Yet humans are kept alive artificially to extract as much money as possible. End of life care is big business.
They are also prolonging the worst period of life - old age.
We have so many sick, disabled, old people stuck in their beds, shitting in diapers, all miserable and in pain. God forbid we'd let them die - not in our civilized society! We're gonna pump them up with several different drugs every day! See, life expectancy went up once again, we're advancing as species, technology is saving lives!"

"They need an underclass of workers to keep the cogs turning. That is why society always promotes pro life and pro natalist agendas."

"Once you realize that suicide is an option there is no turning back. It's akin to discovering you've been taking a placebo:
A placebo only has a chance of working if you're unaware of its ineffectiveness; once you become aware of it being a placebo, it's useless.
This is why ordinary people don't like to be reminded of the possibility of suicide."

Yup it's a reality destroyer, and destroys civilization. Can't have people ending themselves as it's a threat and collapses civilization.
 
KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,801
Of course, things are a lot more nuanced than what I'm about to describe, but you can typically sort those who are completely anti- right to die into two broad categories.

The first category is composed of naive optimists. These people tend to have a firm conviction in the mental health profession, indulge in spirituality, and constantly professs that growth stems from hardship.

The individuals in this group may have suffered some roadblocks in their life. However, they tend to have supportive family, friends, peers, and mentors who hoisted them out of whatever rut they were in. Society did not give up on them during their low points. The fact that the struggle was not chronic is the key here.

Vast majority of therapists and psychologists fall into this camp. There's an old stereotype that people go into that profession to try and understand their own problems, and it still rings true.

I would say many therapists are motivated by their personal experiences with brief lapses of mental anguish. Typically they have a strong desire to help people, which is often fueled by losing a loved one/ acquaintance to suicide or seeing others struggle with depression, anxiety, and so on and so forth. Hence, they want to fix others issues.

The people with this mindset typically have pure intentions, and truly think they are doing the right thing when they try to push someone towards toxic posivity or tell them that their suicidality is delusion. To them, all barriers can be surmounted, improvements can always be made, so it is asinine to ever consider suicide as a possibility.

They are indoctrinated to believe that every problem has a solution, whilst reality begs to differ. I saw a post on a subreddit for therapists where one of them admitted that she is forced to counsel homeless clients, but that this has little benefit to them, because what they actually need is a roof over their head, not cognitive behavioral therapy. All of the commenters essentially told her to shrug this off, because she can't fix the housing crisis.

Most of these people are quite privledged. In most countries it takes a fair amount of wealth and stability to be able to progress through higher education.

A lot of these therapists and self help gurus have struggled, but they never got to a point where it compromised their standing in society. See the news article I posted before about a young woman who conquered drug addiction and took on massive amounts of debt to become a doctor, only to discover that she was ineligible for any jobs due to her past drug convictions. She ended up catching the bus.


Failure to admit futility is a fatal flaw. Sadly, those who fall into this first category that I have described refuse to admit defeat in any circumstance. Their hearts are in the right place, they truly want to help and believe in the notion that everyone can be saved, but it's unrealistic. They tend to have compassion up till a certain point, then it begins to wax and wane, and the victim blaming and accusations that "you don't want to try to get better" start being flung at the suicidal.

Now, for the second category of anti-right to die zealots. This is the tough love, sacrifice yourself for the good of the economy and civilization crowd. They tend to say things like, "That's just the way life is. It's unfair. Deal with it. No one likes enduring pain, but it's a part of life, so get over it. You have an obligation to society, you know? "

Individuals like this have a pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality and a tough love approach. Unlike the other side who think that you simply need to keep searching endlessly for the perfect therapist or yoga technique, these charlatans will insist you haven't suffered enough, because hardship will allow you to appreciate life more, in their point of view. Relative privation fallacy is typically in full swing.

They view their fellow man through the lense of resources and economic instruments. As others have said, people with this mindset tend to see human beings as a commodity serving to keep the cogs of civilization turning. They value a conglomerate's economic productivity, continued existence, and wealth more than the wellbeing of it's citizens.

Often times they are anti-abortion as well, traditionalist/attracted to the ideal of familial piety, and perhaps even downright authoritarian when it comes to their stance that all life should be preserved at all costs. You live because you have a duty to, not because you actually desire existing. They simeltanously harp on that life isn't supposed to be an easy cakewalk, while telling you that you're disturbed for being suicidal.

Both of these camps are hell bent on preventing assisted dying from being sanctioned. They have different rationale, but their goal is the same, to force the continuation of life despite the other party's pleas for mercy. As long as 99.9% of the world clings onto these mentalities and the consolidation of power lies in their hands, we will never legalise suicide and there will be no consideration for those who suffer in the way the members of this forum do.
 
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F

fly away

It’s enough
Oct 28, 2020
110
Try Pegasos. It's expensive, but as long as you are over 18 yrs they will review each case as a whole.
I have personal knowledge re their process. PM me if you want more info
 
deflationary

deflationary

Fussy exister. Living in the epilogue
Mar 11, 2020
529
Obviously there's many reasons and multiple of them have already been touched on in this thread but I think it mainly comes down to a kind of worldview defense. Suicide kinda devalues everyone's life. It says life is not sacred and wonderful and fair and so on, which is something most people need to believe in to really thrive in life. So instead of really admitting those negative facts about life, they write suicidal people off as mentally ill and irrational and not fit to make decisions about their lives. If anti-suicide people really cared about rationality then they'd also question the rationality of the drive to live and see that there's nothing more rational about that than wanting to opt out of life.
 
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Freelyffe88

Freelyffe88

Member
Jun 28, 2021
98
The fact that suicide/euthanasia is illegal, is absolutely ridonculous! Even the areas where PAS (physician assisted suicide) exists… you have to ask for permission, then qualify for it and jump through a shit load of hoops just to whack yourself. Fuck them! I would never give them the pleasure… on principle I would never conform and/or ask the states permission to whack myself.

To me it's one of the greatest pieces of evidence that we are literally slaves. The illegality of suicide has nothing to do with concern/incompetence/ethics and everything to do with control... we don't own our bodies. The state even has the gall to dictate what human beings can put in their own bodies and they will put you in a cage if it's something they dictate one can't. People should be fucking irate! We literally don't have self ownership over our own bodies… the state and/or the people/elite behind the scenes own us. It's so blatant! Most people don't see it because we've been brainwashed since birth… some of us snap out of our programming and if you do snap out of it, it's so apparent and it's so wrong that human beings don't have the right to end their lives.
 
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The Lonely

The Lonely

Arcanist
Jan 26, 2021
406
There is a legit point about Denying:

Sick people would eventually suffer some indirect and subtle pressure in order to ask to die. That would be made by the beneficiaries of this person death…

With laws pending in this direction this folks would even feel impelled to Ask to die(…) Even if they wanted to live longer.

Sick people are by definition: vulnerable people!
And as society, our job is to create laws in order to protect the vulnerable(…)

So..
I can get the Ethic problem about this…. (Big Discussion).
 
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V

VicMackey

Student
Apr 10, 2021
141
I have been reading up on assisted suicide and what doesn't make sense if the fact that they have such a strict qualification criteria, in some cases even patients with chronic illnesses are denied.
My question is: why?
Shouldn't assisted suicide be made available to everyone? People didn't ask to be born and now they can't ask for a death either?
It just seems a bit illogical to me.
Everyone over of 18 (or anyone who's an adult in their country) should have access to euthanasia.
It's one of those rare cases in which organizations should only care about whether they're getting paid or not. If you're getting paid, great, now let me ctb.
Please tell me your thoughts.
Because if they made assisted suicide available to anyone the Matrix would collapse. The governments and corporations would crumble because they would run out of people to tax and control. We the people are the real money making machines....
 
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Sans

Sans

Protesting the conditions of an inhumane world
Oct 2, 2019
350
You want to know why? I'll tell you why.

Money.

We're nothing but government property, at least in the eyes of the state.

The state wants to squeeze every last penny out of us.

If we're dead, the state can't take any more money from us, so they do everything they can to stop people from catching the bus, including locking people up against their own will and charging them for it.

 
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Freelyffe88

Freelyffe88

Member
Jun 28, 2021
98
There is a legit point about Denying:

Sick people would eventually suffer some indirect and subtle pressure in order to ask to die. That would be made by the beneficiaries of this person death…

With laws pending in this direction this folks would even feel impelled to Ask to die(…) Even if they wanted to live longer.

Sick people are by definition: vulnerable people!
And as society, our job is to create laws in order to protect the vulnerable(…)

So..
I can get the Ethic problem about this…. (Big Discussion).
Sure, there's naturally going to be a downside to either ethical direction one takes on this subject (obviously no such thing as a Utopian solution)... however I see no downside so great as people not having the right to self ownership over their own bodies.

In an ethical society it should be a natural right.

Of course people are going to potentially make poor decisions, they're going to potentially make good decisions as well, but who is anyone to be so pretentious/arrogant to think that they know better than the person making that decision for themselves?

Sick people are indeed vulnerable. And if people are vulnerable it's up to everyone around them who cares about them to convince them otherwise, but to take that decision away from them because others think they know what's better for them is the furthest thing from being ethical.
 
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S

Smily

Member
Jul 7, 2021
48
As others stated: we are the government's property - like it or not, but slavery was never ended. By giving us the basic rights and needs it was sufficient to fool us into believing that we matter They need someone to do dirty jobs, buy their products and pay taxes. In Russia, for example, in the event of your death all your outstanding debts are to be paid in full by your relatives. They make everything they can to keep you alive and working. I can only see it change when fully operational AIs are introduced to take over almost every single job that people do. Then we become obsolete thus creating an overpopulated unemployed world which would lead to the culling. Unfortunately, we are relatively far from that yet.
 
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The Lonely

The Lonely

Arcanist
Jan 26, 2021
406
People who are excluded… (the burdens) already feel impelled to disappear.

I am myself in this situation …
And I did no wrong, I deserved to have lived a good live… or at least a more decent one.
If I had received some decent treatment…one hand, or if at least people didn't literally verbalizing for me to kill myself(…)

Good people are marginalized at the point of total exclusion and hopeless Every day and this is not being made by an "Accident".

$$

If people didn't needed to be so many hundreds of times millionaires maybe others would not need to be so poor.

So I see an Ethical issue… and I will Advocate for the weak even if that means to stand alone.
 

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