Why do so many men go out of their way to be mean to women they don't find attractive?

[Lady_V]

Pretty much since I was 10 I started getting bullied, mainly for my looks and being too tall. While everyone has done it to me, it is the boys/men who really seem to focus in on me and go out of their way to make sure I know they think I am not attractive.
Men/boys will often comment and call me a man or trans. Like it's their default insult to me. I know I don't look trans, I know they know I am not trans but I know if I disagree with a man in any way, they always pull out the trans card. Especially on the internet. I don't even post pictures of myself online because I already know random guys will leave negative comments on them.

Recently I've also been trying to date and I've had a couple guys who have said just not okay things right to my face.
1 guy told me the SECOND I SAT DOWN with him that my nose was too big but I am genuinely cute.. like was I supposed to take that as a compliment? I was too embarrassed to get up and leave, but I should have.
Another recently told me my features are too masculine for him to ever consider me a romantic partner? Why did he ask me on a date then? I don't use filters on my dating profile, I choose photos that don't hide my strong features, and I clearly list my height.

For context,
-I am 5'9" (175 cm), which is the average height of a man in my country.
-Have sharp features like a sharp jawline, larger long nose, and big almond eyes.
-I'm not crazy ugly. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but society still generally thinks I am pretty.


I always feel like people, including friends I have had try to "put me in my place" with not nice comments. Idk if it's because I'm not a traditional-looking woman and still dress up, something that draws tm attention to me, idk if it's the way I carry myself, or if people are just that mean to others.

I somewhat think men go out of their way to make negative comments on me because I emasculate them just by my existence.

I try so hard to be okay in my body and it really does take just one comment to ruin my week.

 

[Higurashi415]

I feel like ugly women constitute the group of people that faces the biggest discrimination. people just... never think about them, they just look the other way and erase their face from their memory. pretty sad actually. I have no idea, even as a male, frankly I don't get it. I don't get insulting ugly people in general, personally if I see an ugly man I'm usually pretty empathetic and even friendlier than I probably should because I know that society has treated them poorly.

I didn't add much to your post I guess but... yeah, I see the same issue. it's definitely applied to males as well, but females definitely have it worse.

 

[U. A.]

You need -1 more posts to view this content

 

[NutOrat]

Yeah lookism is a real bitch, and I can see how it can apply doubly to the gender that's "expected" to be beautiful. Back in high school most of the guys in my class were bullying this girl, she was not conventionally attractive, but also she was very emotional and aggressive (you know how the cycle of hatred goes for "less attractive" folks, and that it's easier for others to hate them due to lookism). And I confess, I was partially in on it, mostly because I was afraid of not being "one of the boys". I did try not to engage much, and never made fun of her myself, but I did fake laugh with them and didn't try to stop it, so I still hate myself for it.

I try so hard to be okay in my body and it really does take just one comment to ruin my week.

I feel you on this. I still remember the comments of my classmates about me having too little hair on top of my head, and about my legs being too thick and my arms too thin, being too hairy, etc. This shit doesn't just ruin your day or week, sometimes it's a trauma that stays with you for life. Just a few words can really fucking hurt. I'm sorry you've dealt with such awful people, I wish it doesn't happen as often

 

[Lady_V]

The dating scenario sounds like typical pickup artist playbook shit; there's some term I forget for belittling the "target" while simultaneously being "nice" that is supposed to, I don't know, wear down their defenses by making them feel bad about themselves but ooh look, this person still thinks I am worthy of a screw(?). It's all quite repulsive.

Whaaat? Does this genuinely work on some people? I have extremely low self-esteem, and this still would never work even with me. Oh, you think I'm ugly and are saying it to my face? You must hate me then. Bye.

 

[U. A.]

Whaaat? Does this genuinely work on some people? I have extremely low self-esteem, and this still would never work even with me. Oh, you think I'm ugly and are saying it to my face? You must hate me then. Bye.

I remembered it, ha:

Negging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DeathIsJustAJourney]

Im uk and ive not met or seen hardlys any men do this,in my area lads dont generally give lasses grief for not being pretty or anything and i definatley dont,you still gotta be polite & respectable otherwise we no better than the animals and its also a personal thing because theres a lot out there who will find us ugly and we wouldnt like it if they got mouthy because of it,so u treat others how u expect to be treated yourself innit
Also im proper ugly me but i dont give a damn about it,each to their own innit,beauty is skin deep and it dont last forever

 

[Lady_V]

I remembered it, ha:

View attachment 190563

Negging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pickup artists mainstreaming abuse and manipulation is something foul. It's like they want the men who listen to them to end up alone.

Im uk

I'm not from the UK. I'm from the US. Different cultures, we're pretty superficial here. Like for god's sake we all just about get braces and whiten our teeth to have them look perfect.

 

[vitbar]

I haven't seen much of this either (also UK), not since leaving school. Men can be very blunt and lack social grace though, to put it politely. Online dating can also bring out a callousness in people. I think you are right when you say your height is emasculating for some men.

It sounds like your appearance is characterful (good thing imo) and so people react. Will have been rough at school because kids punish any deviation from the norm. People should mind their own business ultimately.

For what it is worth height has never put me off a woman, maybe if much shorter than me (I'm above average here).

 

[Lady_V]

Yeah lookism is a real bitch, and I can see how it can apply doubly to the gender that's "expected" to be beautiful. Back in high school most of the guys in my class were bullying this girl, she was not conventionally attractive, but also she was very emotional and aggressive (you know how the cycle of hatred goes for "less attractive" folks, and that it's easier for others to hate them due to lookism). And I confess, I was partially in on it, mostly because I was afraid of not being "one of the boys". I did try not to engage much, and never made fun of her myself, but I did fake laugh with them and didn't try to stop it, so I still hate myself for it.



I feel you on this. I still remember the comments of my classmates about me having too little hair on top of my head, and about my legs being too thick and my arms too thin, being too hairy, etc. This shit doesn't just ruin your day or week, sometimes it's a trauma that stays with you for life. Just a few words can really fucking hurt. I'm sorry you've dealt with such awful people, I wish it doesn't happen as often

That's really sad. The people who joined in on the laughing would really hurt my feelings too. I would want to ask them, why? They would be chill with me one on one but would stand by the bullies and encourage them with laughter. I didn't understand.
I hope that girl turned out okay though.
I'm sorry people made critical comments on you too. Making comments on something as dumb as legs is so unnecessary.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

These specific men just straight up hate women (and it's more common than you think but there are outliers), any man that uses trans as an insult just hates women 100% and only views women as objects and if a woman doesn't fit their criteria for what a woman should be (criterias which they decide because they don't think women are people) they are considered scum and worthless. There's nothing wrong with being trans, neither trans men or trans women are lesser than. It's just that these SPECIFIC people are porn brained misogynists and so they see you as lesser than.

Sorry this happened to you.

 

[Higurashi415]

That's really sad. The people who joined in on the laughing would really hurt my feelings too. I would want to ask them, why? They would be chill with me one on one but would stand by the bullies and encourage them with laughter. I didn't understand.
I hope that girl turned out okay though.
I'm sorry people made critical comments on you too. Making comments on something as dumb as legs is so unnecessary.

i think it's viewed as sort of "dishonorable" to be attracted to an ugly female, cause according to those people female beauty is sort of a status in and of itself. i remember people bullying ME for being attracted to """"the ugly girl in class"""" when I was a kid

 

[Lady_V]

i think it's viewed as sort of "dishonorable" to be attracted to an ugly female, cause according to those people female beauty is sort of a status in and of itself. i remember people bullying ME for being attracted to """"the ugly girl in class"""" when I was a kid

I wasn't ugly though. Also you should call women "women." (girls, "girls") Not FeMaLeee.

 

[Dejected 55]

My experience in the US has been that women are much harsher to other women than men are. Don't misunderstand, men can be cruel and manipulative especially if they are trying to get you into bed... but women will trounce other women just to make sure that woman isn't competition for them later.

Kids are cruel in slightly different ways than adults. Kids will insult other kids just for meanness even if they get nothing out of it, or they might do it to gain status with a particular clique, or in rare cases there might be a weird flirting component where they don't know what to do so they insult you because they feel awkward giving you a compliment. It makes NO sense, but kids brains are not quite right yet.

Adults play games and manipulate.

I feel like a kind person who isn't attracted to you will not insult you. They will try to dance around insulting you while rejecting you. The exception being the "player" type of man who has been taught to "neg" a woman to cause her to self-doubt and try to throw herself at him to prove she is worthy. Unfortunately this method does seem to work for some guys with some women, so they keep trying it until it doesn't work. It's fucked up.

Then the cruel/mean people just do their thing... they get nothing out of it except if they can make you cry. It's evil.

Women get critiqued harshly by other women for no really good reason. Women get critiqued by men who either consider, or don't consider, them as dating/partner material.

Men get critiqued harshly by women both as consideration for dating AND sometimes just to be cruel. It's often hard to tell which is in play in the moment for men being insulted by a woman. She might hate you or she might like you. It's confusing. Men actually rarely (as adults) bother to spend time insulting other men for their looks because they don't have anything to gain by wasting their time there. Better to spend all your time on women.

 

[maylurker]

I feel like ugly women constitute the group of people that faces the biggest discrimination. people just... never think about them

sorry but respectfully thats just straight up bull. have you genuinely seen anything remotely close to sisterhood in men places? cuz i havent. women support women no matter attractiveness and men/society never support men even if they are average

 

[Lady_V]

My experience in the US has been that women are much harsher to other women than men are.

Not my experience as a woman in the US. Your guy friends aren't going to show certain sides to them unless you are a woman.
Overall pretty dismissive of my og post.

sorry but respectfully thats just straight up bull. have you genuinely seen anything remotely close to sisterhood in men places? cuz i havent. women support women no matter attractiveness and men/society never support men even if they are average

I don't know about men's spaces, but I tend to agree women tend to support other women, and attractiveness has nothing to do with it.

 

[maylurker]

I don't know about men's spaces, but I tend to agree women tend to support other women, and attractiveness has nothing to do with it.

exactly while men being natural competitors to each other and bring each other down for every little thing. there is a ridiculuos difference in how (on average) women treat other women and men treat other men online

 

[Higurashi415]

sorry but respectfully thats just straight up bull. have you genuinely seen anything remotely close to sisterhood in men places? cuz i havent. women support women no matter attractiveness and men/society never support men even if they are average

totally. as far as i know male bonding tends to work better in low competitive environments, or when there's a shared external challenge (e.g. incels, who think women are their issue and are bonded by this common "challenge"). males DO have botherhood, but it happens in weird places, such as incel forums and military environments afaik

exactly while men being natural competitors to each other and bring each other down for every little thing. there is a ridiculuos difference in how (on average) women treat other women and men treat other men online

also women are BRUTAL to eachother

 

[Lady_V]

My post is turning into a "WELL ACTUALLY, WOMEN" discussion, and it has nothing to do with my og post or experience.

 

[sanctionedusage]

lookism is real for everyone, but a woman's worst crime is literally being unattractive. she could murder an entire classroom, but as long as shes a 7/10 and pretty enough to be a taboo sex symbol while doing it, her worth isn't totally demolished. likewise, an ugly woman could be a complete saint, but it'll always be seen as a redemption for her sin of having subpar looks. "well at least she's got a 'beautiful soul'" or whatever other patronizing shit people throw at her.

other girls that uphold this by twisting the meaning of "pretty" so severely just so they can meaninglessly throw it at a girl who is objectively ugly out of sympathy piss me off more. you're just admitting that a girl being unattractive is so pitiful, so painful to look at and witness, that you'll desperately try to lie to her to save her from the anguish of.. not being a 10. can't even find something genuine to compliment her on instead; because nothing overrides female ugliness.

 

[Whale_bones]

My post is turning into a "WELL ACTUALLY, WOMEN" discussion, and it has nothing to do with my og post or experience.

This unfortunately happens a fair amount, sorry your post turned into that. I recommend posting in the Women's Space Peer Support Megathread. (Though we shouldn't have to go to specific threads to avoid the "well, actually" in the first place )

 

[maylurker]

lookism is real for everyone, but a woman's worst crime is literally being unattractive. she could murder an entire classroom, but as long as shes a 7/10 and pretty enough to be a taboo sex symbol while doing it, her worth isn't totally demolished. likewise, an ugly woman could be a complete saint, but it'll always be seen as a redemption for her sin of having subpar looks.

thats not exclusive to one gender. its a universal human cognitive shortcut rooted in basic evolutionary roots

 

[Higurashi415]

I wasn't ugly though. Also you should call women "women." (girls, "girls") Not FeMaLeee.

I'll be more precise since you brought it up, just to avoid misunderstandings.
I said "males" because I meant both boys and men and I said "females" because I mean both girls and women. My claim is, I suspect, not specifically referred to 14-49 FAAB people but maybe much more general than that. "Female" is a biology term, not a derogative one, which includes FAAB of ALL ages which is precisely what I meant. I know incels have been known to use "female" in a derogative way, but I'm not an incel and I'm NOT using it in a derogative way by any means, I'm just trying to make a general claim, which intends to apply in all circumstances. I've personally seen this type of dynamic play out even when I was like 3 years old, so there's no need to limit myself to 14-49 FAAB people. This type of dynamic is clearly present in girls that are way too young to be called women, I hope you'd agree.

Also aside from that, I didn't mean to imply that you were ugly, as a matter of fact the first version of my message even included a disclaimer in brackets, I omitted it in the final version because I didn't think it was necessary. But to be clear, I don't know what you look like and even if I did I would NEVER say that.

I meant to say that for some reason not being "conventionally attractive" is much more punishing for females than it is for males, and I have no idea why. I have personally helped some friends of mine FAAB deal with that, because female bullying can be very harsh. That's all.