Why are ugly people expected to just accept it and move on? Why live like this when I can destroy this disgusting body that I was forced to exist in

[Dejected 55]

Let's not get it twisted... many men and many women judge based on looks. How can they not? Outside of meeting people on an online site without photos, you're going to know what someone looks like long before you know anything else about them.

What is debatable is what women look for in physical appearance VS what men look for in physical appearance... and, in part due to physical differences in men and women, that's where things get different. Women tend to value physical size (height, athleticism, strength, etc.) because finding those things in a man tends to support the historical need for security and protection and taking care of her, children, and the home. Men, as already has been stated, tend to look for health and youth and certain attributes in breasts and hips that imply better chance of healthy children. If you're going to acknowledge history and caveman stuff in how people see each other, you have to acknowledge it plays in both directions.

Are men pickier than women in terms of evaluating looks? I don't know. Even though I have often thought I was ugly by male standards, I've never gotten the feeling that my looks were what were keeping women from being interested in me. Maybe it has and I was oblivious to it. Also, from the reverse angle... I've been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes and nationalities in my life and more than a few times women I've found really attractive to me were ones others around me wouldn't look once at, much less twice. So while I acknowledge I've had some physical attractions purely based on looks before I got to know a woman... I don't think I've unfairly judged a woman solely based on physical appearance. I can't say, though, that there couldn't be a perfectly nice and kind human being that I find her not physically attractive and it would be a deal breaker... anymore that I can't say that a woman out there might not like me for my appearance even if she liked me as a human being.

It's a part of things, but it isn't all the things.

 

[maylurker]

Let's not get it twisted... many men and many women judge based on looks. How can they not? Outside of meeting people on an online site without photos, you're going to know what someone looks like long before you know anything else about them.

What is debatable is what women look for in physical appearance VS what men look for in physical appearance... and, in part due to physical differences in men and women, that's where things get different. Women tend to value physical size (height, athleticism, strength, etc.) because finding those things in a man tends to support the historical need for security and protection and taking care of her, children, and the home. Men, as already has been stated, tend to look for health and youth and certain attributes in breasts and hips that imply better chance of healthy children. If you're going to acknowledge history and caveman stuff in how people see each other, you have to acknowledge it plays in both directions.

Are men pickier than women in terms of evaluating looks? I don't know. Even though I have often thought I was ugly by male standards, I've never gotten the feeling that my looks were what were keeping women from being interested in me. Maybe it has and I was oblivious to it. Also, from the reverse angle... I've been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes and nationalities in my life and more than a few times women I've found really attractive to me were ones others around me wouldn't look once at, much less twice. So while I acknowledge I've had some physical attractions purely based on looks before I got to know a woman... I don't think I've unfairly judged a woman solely based on physical appearance. I can't say, though, that there couldn't be a perfectly nice and kind human being that I find her not physically attractive and it would be a deal breaker... anymore that I can't say that a woman out there might not like me for my appearance even if she liked me as a human being.

It's a part of things, but it isn't all the things.

thanks unc you never disappoint with your centrist opinion

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

thanks unc you never disappoint with your centrist opinion

Damn that's a straight up insult nuanced ≠ centrist

 

[crazyotterkelly]

as a trans woman. i know the beauty standard thing all too well. it is a privilege. i don't think im even doing the worst out of my trans sisters looks wise but i think i look hideous still..... thats saying something. yeah being pretty or being seen as you isn't gonna fix your problems but it is gonna make your life better

i know all to well people don't teat me well because i don't look like other woman and its just a true fact. we are visual creatures. litterally it takes like one thing being off about my hair or makeup suddenly im a man ( i mean i can't control i was born and geneticly am one. besides all what those hugboxxers say. at least some of the phobes are being honest. but thats my own view on being trans)

i imagine very masc/butch cis ladies deal with a similar thing. most of the cis women in my family who are cis litterally grow beards and get called men sometimes

beauty standards are fucked but id be lying if it wasn't contributing to my suicide. even if i try to love myself as a unconventional person. doesn't change the fact the world will tear me apart

 

[maylurker]

Agreed. It's known that on dating apps (dating apps are real life), the genetically superior 20% of men receive attention from 80% of women. Dating apps are the quintessential example of a 'hot-or-not' game, as your existence is reduced to 6 photos. Thus majority of women only being attracted to the most elite men shows women care more about looks.


(All in my humble opinion)

basically there is no point in arguing with a woman on that topic because gap is way too big. they cant see your perspective unfortunately because women get a lot of attention on dating apps and most men have none

 

[finaldestination22]

that the extent to which he wants to be attractive is ridiculous and not even about being attractive anymore, probably just closeted narcissism

hiding behind legitimate reasons like wanting to be taken seriously in society, more opportunities, etc. when he actually just wants endless, extreme attention and admiration by women

ignoring ofc that the men that get obsessed over like this are not really 10/10s; they usually fit into a caricature of the most recent trend. emaciated, pale, white, curly or wavy dark hair, tall, subtle muscle definition, heroin-chic-like aesthetic comes to mind. this is just a fetish and a trendy captivation; i doubt most men would even agree this is peak attractiveness for a guy.

so at this point your problem isn't really wanting to be attractive, it's that you want the opposite gender to desperately want to have sex with you.

It's funny sometimes how "normal" people sound on this forum, I even forget that it is actually a suicide forum lol. If this was a topic on reddit or whatever it would sound perfectly normal but here I think mental illness is forgotten often.
In my experience mental illness hides lot of truth from you especially bpd/bipolar even ocd type due to the intrusive thoughts. You start believing and "feeling" lot of stuff that's not so real, like a simple rejection becomes a huge tragedy and the world is against you, or in my case had lots of money but still BPD as fuck and zero motivation to actually become a better person especially mentally. So of course I lost it all while thinking the game is rigged against me when I actually had so many chances to live good but I had to fix my energy and treat my mental first due to too much past traumas.

Take for example Elliot Rodger case aka the kind of incels. Good family, good looking, maxed himself out bought a nice BMW very young, designer clothes and everything because all he wanted to do was being admired and have all girls jump on him. And it did not happen at all. Why? He was highly autistic and too weird/off putting so instead of understanding that he hated everyone so much until he killed as many as he could.

So was he ugly or just sick? Absolutely sick. Mental illness is a master at distorting reality and justify "injustice". Yes many bad experiences in life I agree lot of shit happened to me too which made me take some horrible decissions in life but end of the day I believe if I would have taken care of my mental my life would have been so much better, and I'm far from being a beautiful guy but not deformed and I had so many chances whit girls that I fucked up.

 

[sanrioslayer]

Of course evolutionarily, women have to invest 100x more time into having a child (in the womb) than men, so they are more picky with sexually selecting the most genetically fit men available.
Men only have to invest delivering sperm to have a child, which means to maximize their chance of passing on their genes, men will try mate with as many women as they can.

This translates to the modern day where many women are more content staying single & waiting for an ideal man to meet their standards, while many men will take anything they can get.



Agreed. It's known that on dating apps (dating apps are real life), the genetically superior 20% of men receive attention from 80% of women. Dating apps are the quintessential example of a 'hot-or-not' game, as your existence is reduced to 6 photos. Thus majority of women only being attracted to the most elite men shows women care more about looks.


(All in my humble opinion)

Yea idk maybe youre right my bad g

 

[Alan James]

That's right. I am also completely ugly, short, with terrible genetics, poor health, low IQ, I have no talents, lifelong severe depression and body dysmorphic disorder (hatred of my body). I personally need beauty and height not in order to please someone, not for romantic relationships and so on (I'm not an incel) - but so as not to suffer every day all my life from endless hatred of my body and myself. You feel as if your consciousness/soul was locked in a prison in this genetically inferior disgusting good-for-nothing body that you did not choose. And for some reason you have to endure it, put up with it because you can't change it in any way.

Body dysmorphic disorder causes some kind of special suffering; it's not at all clear how to live in a body that you categorically do not accept, hate and cannot do anything with such a body. Beauty, tall height, high IQ, talents, health, abilities are the true highest values (unlike money, for example) and I need them personally for myself so as not to suffer every day of my life, and not for some kind of relationship with someone, getting sex, some social things. I have never understood how it is possible to accept and tolerate ugliness and genetic inferiority and what is the point in such a "life".

Gnostics and others who say that the physical body is a prison for the immortal consciousness/soul and that the physical world is a simulation, that it is like a prison, they seem to be right. This is exactly how I have felt all my life - locked in my body as if in a prison in this senseless physical hell.

Yes, as they wrote above, I personally need beauty (including tall height, correct body proportions and the health of this body) exclusively for myself, so that I like myself and not suffer every day, every minute of my life from hating my body. This is precisely narcissism and selfishness.

Of course, there is lookism in human society. But I have always been completely indifferent to the opinions of society and other people; the goal was not to please someone or have sex. I love solitude, I never cared about society. I also always liked porn and I watched it in huge quantities since childhood and had no intention of ever even trying to have sex with someone.

What is "beauty"? This is a thin, slender, fairly tall body with long legs and correct proportions of body and face. For me personally, regarding women, the most beautiful have always been the top models (Victoria's Secret Angels and others), such as in the photo, for example.

By the way, according to statistics, less than 2% of the planet's population has a more or less model type of appearance, beautiful by such standards (and this is at best 2%). Beauty is like an anomaly and the vast majority of people in the world are not beautiful to one degree or another, unfortunately.

 

[sanctionedusage]

It's funny sometimes how "normal" people sound on this forum, I even forget that it is actually a suicide forum lol. If this was a topic on reddit or whatever it would sound perfectly normal but here I think mental illness is forgotten often.
In my experience mental illness hides lot of truth from you especially bpd/bipolar even ocd type due to the intrusive thoughts. You start believing and "feeling" lot of stuff that's not so real, like a simple rejection becomes a huge tragedy and the world is against you, or in my case had lots of money but still BPD as fuck and zero motivation to actually become a better person especially mentally. So of course I lost it all while thinking the game is rigged against me when I actually had so many chances to live good but I had to fix my energy and treat my mental first due to too much past traumas.

Take for example Elliot Rodger case aka the kind of incels. Good family, good looking, maxed himself out bought a nice BMW very young, designer clothes and everything because all he wanted to do was being admired and have all girls jump on him. And it did not happen at all. Why? He was highly autistic and too weird/off putting so instead of understanding that he hated everyone so much until he killed as many as he could.

So was he ugly or just sick? Absolutely sick. Mental illness is a master at distorting reality and justify "injustice". Yes many bad experiences in life I agree lot of shit happened to me too which made me take some horrible decissions in life but end of the day I believe if I would have taken care of my mental my life would have been so much better, and I'm far from being a beautiful guy but not deformed and I had so many chances whit girls that I fucked up.

maybe because sasu is primarily an educational/research forum and a resource, it attracts people who are ironically of a sounder mind to be meticulously planning and carefully considering ctb. they approach their ctb logically and by extension, usually have very self aware and logical reasons to be ctb'ing. compare this to people who are unstable enough, so often, that they don't get the chance to think rationally and impulsively copy the first method they've seen on social media or in their own life and end up with an extremely fatal but unnecessarily brutal method, or more commonly, a brutal but non-method.

so yeah, un-self aware people are less common here. which is a bit sadder, since i can't look at 90% of the posts here and come up with a single reason why that person shouldn't ctb, because they're not stupid or ridiculous reasons. sometimes im just in awe at how the person is even alive. this includes extremely sick people as well, but even they can often (on sasu posts) see through their own illness's BS and assess their situation. i think this is what makes people come off so 'normal' even if nearly everyone has some mental condition or disorder.

 

[U. A.]

This thread is still goin', huh