Discussion Why are there so many regulars here?? Also, hot take, don't kill yourself (probably) lol

[spellbound]

There's also some perspectives on death and suicide and reasons not to that I gave that I think are frequently not given because so much 'suicide prevention' is just 'uhhh don't do it, duh, it gets better, duh, we'll lock you up anyways if you really try'. It's an important perspective to give imo.

Your groundbreaking suicide prevention arguments in this post:
- Your loved ones will be very sad
- You can't feel relief because you can't feel anything once you're dead
- You just have to wait cause you gonna die anyways
I wouldn't call those "frequently not given", it's genuinely the first thing every pro-lifer has to say when they find out you're suicidal

 

[interna]

i get what you're trying to say. that death cannot actually bring forward relief, as death is nothingness and relief is a feeling, and you can only feel while alive. but the thought of death definitely is relieving to a majority of us, independently of how dying itself feels.

also, your way of approaching it still reads like you're policing suicide. there's not a single suicidal person who hasn't heard this before. plus, you yourself said it, living for the sake of others is miserable.

your intentions are good, so you shouldn't be shamed for them. but i assume you knew bringing pro-lifer rhetoric up here would stir up things

 

[Intoxicated]

Almost no one can truly understand the idea of nothingness, we create abstractions of death because Life is all we know

I think, I clearly understood what death means when I first faced it closely at the age of nearly 8 yo. I feel pity for the level of intelligence of adult people who still can't figure out what implications of death are.

But defining relief as the 'reduction or end of pain' is based on a person there to experience that reduction or end.

That additional condition is not stated anywhere in the given dictionaries; and even if it were stated, the word 'relief' could still be used in the metaphorical (or more general) sense as simply "end of suffering" without the baggage of artificial restrictions like "the implied person must be conscious" or "the implied person must be alive". In the most general sense, relief is any transition from greater discomfort to less discomfort. Since the absence of consciousness can imply less discomfort than some painful or highly depressive conscious state, shutting down consciousness (whether temporarily or permanently) can provide relief in the given general sense.

 

[Lamentice]

once again not really hearing what I'm saying. The point of my posts is thoughts I was having and putting them out there. I think it's not great to be here for people. I think the 'in-between' fucks with you. I worry about it being a public site. There's also some perspectives on death and suicide and reasons not to that I gave that I think are frequently not given because so much 'suicide prevention' is just 'uhhh don't do it, duh, it gets better, duh, we'll lock you up anyways if you really try'. It's an important perspective to give imo.


All I can speak of is myself. I don't know your life, you don't know mine. But there are surely similarities. So I thought sharing thoughts I was having might be good. I don't have a clear option to be frank with you. I'm stuck in ambivilance to some level. I mean, I'm buying SN. But yk.

I completely disagree. This site has been positive for me, even if you don't believe it could be because of your own biases. I did hear what you said, you can't speak accurately on what is "healthy" for another person, that's for them to decide. You don't know what's best for the individuals frequenting the site, again, that's only for them to know.

I didn't read any reason for not committing that is original, it's all stuff everyone has read or heard before. And we're all exhausted with it, this isn't the space, literally anywhere else online or irl is the space, this is literally the only singular space that is not centered around the same anit-suicide rhetoric. You don't understand how invaluable that is, fine, but it actually is positively invaluable for many people here.

 

[25menrunning]

i get what you're trying to say. that death cannot actually bring forward relief, as death is nothingness and relief is a feeling, and you can only feel while alive. but the thought of death definitely is relieving to a majority of us, independently of how dying itself feels.

also, your way of approaching it still reads like you're policing suicide. there's not a single suicidal person who hasn't heard this before. plus, you yourself said it, living for the sake of others is miserable.

your intentions are good, so you shouldn't be shamed for them. but i assume you knew bringing pro-lifer rhetoric up here would stir up things

Yeah, I have no idea how to phrase things really. And I'm too tired to sit and watch my wording ig. If I say this kind of stuff anywhere else, I'm told to 'seek help' and that the ways I say things are not good, that 'suicide isn't logical' and there's no use bringing logic into it, that me seeing it as nonetheless an option is bad. I see the positives and negatives of it. I've been through some awful shit. I'm trying to find better spaces now, and I think maybe I will, but it sucks that there's no in between.

On here, we have people that comment on every fucking post for 4+ years about how 'existing is torturous suffering' and 'death is beautiful' on posts from those who are vulnerable, people that have ambivalence, while never saying jack shit about themselves or their experiences, essentially egging people on. But I can't get upset at that here because people don't like that, and I can't get upset at that elsewhere because the fact that I am still suicidal is too scary for people, the fact that I spend time on this site at all.

We've essentially criminalised wanting to die, and stigmatised the shit out of it too. We say buzzwords like 'its ok to not be ok' and 'you're worth it' or whatever, we lock people up until they lie about being better whilst doing nothing to improve material conditions. We pretend we care about 'suicide prevention' while making disability payments less then is required to not be homeless, while making education worth so much money that either you need to luck out with parents or drown in debt for the rest of your life. We focus so much on preventing people from doing it that if someone mentions being suicidal the material conditions that made them suicidal are ignored because instead of being seen as a symptom, it's seen as a disease in and of itself. If I mention how my physical illness makes me suicidal to a doctor, no longer is the appointment about helping the illness (which would help the suicdiality), but it's about 'saftey planning' (whatever that means).

The reality of this system is that we push people to the extremes. I really like the model of 'alternatives to suicide' that I said before, and I like that there are a limited number of hotlines that don't call the police (though there are few). But it's a limited thing. Our practical criminalization of suicide creates places like this. Where people are presumed to be so far gone if they are on here that there's simply no point in entertaining why death might be a bad choice. Every choice has pros and cons. There is always a con. Even if you still decide to die.

I originally wasn't going to add the second half of the title of my post, but I added it to be honest so that more people would see it. I kinda regret that. I feel like people here have so much anger at those who have never been suicidal who want them to live (so-called 'pro-lifers') that they've projected that onto me. I'm bad socially and I'm too tired to double check everything I've written and cross check it with the audience and how me at me worst would have perceived it to make sure I come across the right way.

So me and this post has become a boogeyman of this evil, and all the fucking times I explain what I'm trying to say are ignored. I guess I just can't sympathise with suicidal people or chronically ill people or everyone that has it worse then me even after all these years of being in that spot. It's so tempting to reveal shit I've been through to show that and I fear I've already said too much identifiable info. Which I guess is the danger of this website. Even I forget. It's not safe.

I guess it's to be expected, and I'm taking the responses to heart too much. I'm just tired. But of course it would be like this. I empathize with those here. I see myself in you guys. I wish it wasn't so hard.

I'm so, so tired. I don't want to be so tired.

Your groundbreaking suicide prevention arguments in this post:
- Your loved ones will be very sad
- You can't feel relief because you can't feel anything once you're dead
- You just have to wait cause you gonna die anyways
I wouldn't call those "frequently not given", it's genuinely the first thing every pro-lifer has to say when they find out you're suicidal

they're not suicide prevention arguments (and you also forgot the most attempts fail one). They're reasons why it might be the wrong choice. That's the difference. It was in a larger context of why doing things that might encourage people do die is bad in my perspective. There are also reasons for suicide, no one here is going to deny that. To argue that any decision, especially one as significant as this, has no negatives is just false.

And yeah, in my experience, they aren't that frequently given. Still are, but not that frequently, and often not understood because their weight is pretty significant. Other then the loved ones one, though people don't even know how to phrase that one. People act as if suicidal people can't think in my experience. And a lot of people have also never being suicidal enough to think about the 'why'. They just think that suicide is a crazy thing to do, so if you physically stop people from doing it or 'safety plan' eventually they'll 'wake up' and want to live again. Which I think is generally stupid, even if true in some cases.

Why do people insist its selfish to kill oneself?
Yeah it effects other but so does everything. It effects people if you say hi or just look at them funny. Existing effects people and so does not existing. How it effects you is up to you. Thats just life. You cant control your circumstances.
In the end you're just having a feeling about a decision someone else made.
So be mad be sad be whatever. It isnt everyone's duty to care.

never said it was selfish. People will be fucked up if you die, its almost a guarantee. Doesn't make it selfish, or at least that's not the right word to use. But the fact that it's still your decision to make (without judgement) doesn't erase the reality that it will fuck people up to hell and back.

 

[hurts2b]

I guess I'm a regular here. I think I'm just waiting to run out of student loan cash, and for some assurance that the only person who regularly speaks to me will be alright. My issue is poverty. I don't see a way out other than death. You can't be deprived of the necessities of life if you simply don't need things anymore. That's relief to me. You say that things could get better but I just don't think I want to hold out indefinitely for that. I am not well connected, so my death would have a small impact (if it even has any impact at all). I'm also a coward and my survival instinct is a bitch of a thing.

 

[25menrunning]

I guess I'm a regular here. I think I'm just waiting to run out of student loan cash, and for some assurance that the only person who regularly speaks to me will be alright. My issue is poverty. I don't see a way out other than death. You can't be deprived of the necessities of life if you simply don't need things anymore. That's relief to me. You say that things could get better but I just don't think I want to hold out indefinitely for that. I am not well connected, so my death would have a small impact (if it even has any impact at all). I'm also a coward and my survival instinct is a bitch of a thing.

hello me