Darkhaven

Darkhaven

All i have left is memories
May 19, 2019
979
In a hypothetical situation where one fails to commit suicide and ends up hospitalized and has regular therapy sessions while in there, what will they do if you up front tell them that you are hell bent on taking your own life and you will give it another try as soon as possible?
That they will keep you in there for a longer period of time it's no surprise, but can they take more "extreme measures"?
Permanent encarceration of a suicidal person is very unlikely to happen, as suicide is not a crime and they probably don't have the means to keep people there permanently.
But i was thinking can they force certain treatments upon you? Maybe electroconvulsive therapy? Even if you refuse to be submitted to such treatments?
 
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
I don't have experience with wards, but I think the rule of thumb applies with any battle: You give them information, they have better means to attack you. If that happens, I'd be on my very best behaviour. Always remember that if you rape a baby you will keep more human rights than if you are considered suicidal.
 
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sanction

sanction

sanctioned
Mar 15, 2019
431
I don't know the answer to that, but my suggestion is don't even waste time & effort to have any hopes that they will cooperate with you, like most scenarios in life. Just play it smart, and get out as quick as possible to get your own freedom back, so you can do whatever you want. That should be the main focus. One should try to avoid even ending up in there in the first place, so if unfortunately one does end up there, the trick should be to do whatever it takes to get out there asap, even if it means pretending to cooperate with them, and not the opposite
 
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E

eightyninedee

Member
May 28, 2019
12
Tell them nothing, they will keep you in. Pretend you're getting better, say all tells right things, and then make your decision when you're out,
 
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sanction

sanction

sanctioned
Mar 15, 2019
431
Tell them nothing, they will keep you in. Pretend you're getting better, say all tells right things, and then make your decision when you're out,

Yeah, its just common sense. The more it sounds like you are "crazy" to them, such as wanting to take your own life, the more extreme measures they will take to try to control you. Just play it smart and instead get your freedom back asap, not the opposite
 
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Darkhaven

Darkhaven

All i have left is memories
May 19, 2019
979
I don't plan to end up there.
I just wanted to hear some thoughts about it.
 
Raggas

Raggas

Suicide is self expression
Dec 31, 2018
306
You would eventually get better. And they'd have to release you after a certain while.
 
blueming

blueming

if we can stand outside the borders of time
Sep 21, 2018
253
I guess it depends(?). When I was in the psych ward, there was someone who did exactly that, told the nurses all the time that she was still very suicidal and would try to kill herself again soon, and she was discharged before everyone else that was admitted before her. We all found it strange but the doctors were like "we know what we're doing" lol. But in any case it's best to cooperate and pretend you're getting better to get your freedom back quickly.
 
RedAlert

RedAlert

Experienced
Sep 14, 2019
226
Suicidal people usually get better within three weeks stay at the psych ward. The ward has to follow the hospitals schedule, rise and shine, make your bed, eat breakfast, group therapy, individual therapy, lunch, etc. This schedule eventually becomes routine for the suicidal patients which will gradually make them feel more happy and grounded. Living in a ward with patients with similar ailments could also bring about comradery and a sense of community, eating, group therapy and activities can also make the suicidal individual feel more happy and himself. The hospitals also provide healthy food in moderate quantities which is also good.

I don't think they can force certain treatments, i think they can only sedate you if you are being aggressive and violent. Remember, the objective of the staff at the hospital is to help the individual rest and heal and feel safe. Alot of suicidal and depressed people do tell the staff that they cannot be fixed and will likely try to commit suicide again, because their ideology of suicide has become habitual, they habitually think about methods of suicide and feeling depressed because they like it and they think its good for them.
 
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Yes dear, you see the nice people there will cure you of your stupidity. It is very nice to have very clever people here.
 
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hypo666

Member
Jun 3, 2019
57
Can only speak on my experience with UK based psychiatric ward ,but it's quite common that they will in the end discharge a suicidal person. Some patients because of a chaotic lifestyle ,see hospital as a stable safe place and will say/do anything to stay there,including telling the staff if you discharge me I will kill myself or hurt someone else. I got to know a female patient in there who slashed her throat quite severely ,and she lived with her boyfriend who was also her pimp. She warned the staff that if they discharged her ,she had no where else to go but back to her boyfriend and she couldn't take living like that anymore so she would kill herself. They still discharged her.

Yet conversely they will detain against their will a person who came in as a voluntary patient and now wants to go home. Be wary of a 'voluntary' admission, they can easily change that to involuntary far too easily..... They have their ways. It's like they practice reverse psychology,. people who want to leave must be too unwell to discharge themselves, yet people who want to stay cannot be ill and must be discharged.

My advice if you truly want to leave hospital, just to be on the safe side,never mention harming yourself and/or others, attend all their groups and make sure you eat everything they give you to eat {they see this as very important,never ever say you aren't hungry as they take that as a sign of depression or something like that} , and keep yourself hydrated. Be polite and friendly {but not too friendly} with the staff. If the opportunity presents itself, mention how much safer you feel now. If they offer you meds to help you sleep take them. The psychiatric wards are noisy stressful places, and sleeping will make you look fit and energetic. And most important, never ever lose your temper.
 
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A

Amz_Falls

Student
Aug 23, 2019
175
Supposing you do they will generally say that 'you have capacity to make your own decision and understand the risk etc' this is their get out of jail free clause to absolve them of any responsibility really.
 
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Bpdboii

Frustrated
Oct 6, 2019
80
Can only speak on my experience with UK based psychiatric ward ,but it's quite common that they will in the end discharge a suicidal person. Some patients because of a chaotic lifestyle ,see hospital as a stable safe place and will say/do anything to stay there,including telling the staff if you discharge me I will kill myself or hurt someone else. I got to know a female patient in there who slashed her throat quite severely ,and she lived with her boyfriend who was also her pimp. She warned the staff that if they discharged her ,she had no where else to go but back to her boyfriend and she couldn't take living like that anymore so she would kill herself. They still discharged her.

Yet conversely they will detain against their will a person who came in as a voluntary patient and now wants to go home. Be wary of a 'voluntary' admission, they can easily change that to involuntary far too easily..... They have their ways. It's like they practice reverse psychology,. people who want to leave must be too unwell to discharge themselves, yet people who want to stay cannot be ill and must be discharged.

My advice if you truly want to leave hospital, just to be on the safe side,never mention harming yourself and/or others, attend all their groups and make sure you eat everything they give you to eat {they see this as very important,never ever say you aren't hungry as they take that as a sign of depression or something like that} , and keep yourself hydrated. Be polite and friendly {but not too friendly} with the staff. If the opportunity presents itself, mention how much safer you feel now. If they offer you meds to help you sleep take them. The psychiatric wards are noisy stressful places, and sleeping will make you look fit and energetic. And most important, never ever lose your temper.

In short, it means that you need to be healthy and non-suicidal in order to escape from psych ward.
 
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Yes dear, you see the nice people there will cure you of your stupidity. It is very nice to have very clever people here.

Ahh, my day is brighter because the pro-life and bullying fucker is banned. There is always something wrong with people who are here without any suicidal inclinations (long or short term) and/or information to offer.
 
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NextSummer

NextSummer

Experienced
Mar 28, 2019
278
They don't care about your suicidality. They want to be safe on the legal side. If you say "I am going to kill myself the second I leave this place", they will not let you out because doing so will have bad consequences for them. If you say "I will at a point definately kill myself and you know you can't stop me", it's fine.
 
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blackflag1

Experienced
Oct 6, 2019
214
I have enough background to tell you what will happen if you tell them, "I am going to kill myself when I get out of here!" You will end up there longer. It could months or even years. Best answer is that you are getting back on a good footing and showing improvement clinically. The doctors have the power to keep you as long they feel you are at risk. You can get out very quickly if you show the "improvement" they want to see. It may even be a week or less.
 
SinisterKid

SinisterKid

Visionary
Jun 1, 2019
2,113
Ahh, my day is brighter because the pro-life and bullying fucker is banned. There is always something wrong with people who are here without any suicidal inclinations (long or short term) and/or information to offer.

Thanks, you saved me the effort of writing a long winded diatribe about how wrong they were in their assumptions and how ignorance is no excuse for stupidity :wink:
 
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Darkhaven

Darkhaven

All i have left is memories
May 19, 2019
979
I got late and didn't see what he/she said.
Eh, that's probably a good thing!
 
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SadSack

SadSack

Keeper of Angst
Oct 3, 2019
22
From my experience if you're in the psych ward in the U.S. and tell them you're going to kill yourself/suicidal they put you under suicide watch and limit your already limited freedom and give you zero privacy. You can't even go to the bathroom alone while you're under suicide watch.
 
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B

blackflag1

Experienced
Oct 6, 2019
214
I lean more Pro-life myself but I have no problem with person's freedom of choice. I give the information I know and they are free to choose their own path. I do not judge anybody badly for choosing to leave the game of Life early. I am actually astonished by how intelligent most of the participants on this forums are. I actually enjoy talking to the people here. Great group of people here.
 
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C

c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
electro convulsive would be my guess too, and a lot of nasty drugs.
 
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Mokocchi

Mokocchi

Going Back to Paradise
Sep 20, 2019
7
Most likely, while I was on the inside I met this girl who had apparently been in and out and about various wards for years (tried to hang herself 1st day I was there haha~), she told me that they were going to take her to some sort of higher grade facility after a couple more weeks of this where more... extreme measures were to be taken.

Then again we were both like 16 and she could just be lying out her ass idk.
 
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blackflag1

Experienced
Oct 6, 2019
214
There is no electroshock therapy in modern psych wards. There are drugs however.
On the job, I work counter to your goals. I do not work in a psych ward but I will see you before you reach it in my area. That is all I can reveal. I will tell what works. Just don't be found too soon. Do not end up in the ER before the job is done. Everyone in the hospital is learning the SN method and knows how to bring one back if it is not too late.
 
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Misanthrope

Misanthrope

Mage
Oct 23, 2018
557
I can tell you what happens in the U.K in this scenario.

If you make statements to that effect, you will likely be put on increased suicide watch. More so, if you state that you intend to do it while in there. This will result in you being followed around even into the bathroom and losing what meagre privacy exists in there as it is. They may well end up sitting at your door with a book as they watch you. Your statement will end up documented and then likely discussed at hand over. They will discuss more than what you said, but how you said it. Your body language, tone and the context of what may have prompted it. As well as prior history. From that, they will measure the degree of observation required. Or if they are overly concerned you may be moved to a more secure ward. That certainly happens, especially if you manage to abscond from the unit and the police have to find you.

All of this will then be further discussed at some point with your Psychiatrist. This will likely extend your stay. Duty of care and liability culture is very much at work. If you were brought in under an emergency 72-hour section. Then say you intend to kill yourself in that period. That pretty much ensures that when that 72 hours lapses you will be put on a section 2. Which can last 28 days at that point. There are some exceptions, that other posters have covered.

Section 2 can at times become a section three which allows for six months which then can be renewed. Theoretically, you could stay for a very long time. That, however, is highly doubtful. Mainly because Psychiatric Units in truth just operate like Triage, not much different to an ICU. More often than not at the moment, you become settled, and dare I say it comfortable in there. That is usually when leave is offered with a mind to discharge a person soon after and free up a bed. Shortages of beds and how long of a stay is what governs a lot of who is admitted and who isn't. Along with how promptly they are discharged. Often to what is laughably meant to be 'Care in the community.' My former colleagues and I call it by its proper name, utter empty bullshit.

I am aware other countries have added issues of financial incentive and insurance agencies to drive these decisions. Rather glumly I fear that is coming here.

As for Electroconvulsive Therapy. It most definitely is practised still. Plenty of my clients had it or were undergoing it. My comment on it is, I saw it work wonders for some of my clients and wreck others... Their consent was always sought, despite being under a section. They also at any time could withdraw their consent to that treatment.

If you are detained under the mental health act and do not consent to ECT, it will not be forced. It is still fairly controversial. There are a few rare exceptions and that then depends on severity. This would not be a trivial matter though. Just being suicidal is not enough. Being catatonically depressed, and laying in your own shit, however, might be. Medication can absolutely be forced though as they are mandated to provide treatment.

Lastly, since I have seen Human Rights mentioned incorrectly often enough on this site. I will point out that it is ironically human rights law that allows you to be detained and lose your right to liberty. As this right is a limited right and can be restricted under certain criteria. Feel free to look at article 5. In this country that is covered by the Mental health act and a few other relevant acts. Other countries have their equivalency. You also have the right to appeal. Although rarely were any of my clients informed to a satisfactory degree about these rights. I am also left wondering why peoples rights, in general, are not taught anywhere meaningful? Or even as standard.

Hope that was informative.

Peace.
 
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B

blackflag1

Experienced
Oct 6, 2019
214
I can tell you what happens in the U.K in this scenario.

If you make statements to that effect, you will likely be put on increased suicide watch. More so, if you state that you intend to do it while in there. This will result in you being followed around even into the bathroom and losing what meagre privacy exists in there as it is. They may well end up sitting at your door with a book as they watch you. Your statement will end up documented and then likely discussed at hand over. They will discuss more than what you said, but how you said it. Your body language, tone and the context of what may have prompted it. As well as prior history. From that, they will measure the degree of observation required. Or if they are overly concerned you may be moved to a more secure ward. That certainly happens, especially if you manage to abscond from the unit and the police have to find you.

All of this will then be further discussed at some point with your Psychiatrist. This will likely extend your stay. Duty of care and liability culture is very much at work. If you were brought in under an emergency 72-hour section. Then say you intend to kill yourself in that period. That pretty much ensures that when that 72 hours lapses you will be put on a section 2. Which can last 28 days at that point. There are some exceptions, that other posters have covered.

Section 2 can at times become a section three which allows for six months which then can be renewed. Theoretically, you could stay for a very long time. That, however, is highly doubtful. Mainly because Psychiatric Units in truth just operate like Triage, not much different to an ICU. More often than not at the moment, you become settled, and dare I say it comfortable in there. That is usually when leave is offered with a mind to discharge a person soon after and free up a bed. Shortages of beds and how long of a stay is what governs a lot of who is admitted and who isn't. Along with how promptly they are discharged. Often to what is laughably meant to be 'Care in the community.' My former colleagues and I call it by its proper name, utter empty bullshit.

I am aware other countries have added issues of financial incentive and insurance agencies to drive these decisions. Rather glumly I fear that is coming here.

As for Electroconvulsive Therapy. It most definitely is practised still. Plenty of my clients had it or were undergoing it. My comment on it is, I saw it work wonders for some of my clients and wreck others... Their consent was always sought, despite being under a section. They also at any time could withdraw their consent to that treatment.

If you are detained under the mental health act and do not consent to ECT, it will not be forced. It is still fairly controversial. There are a few rare exceptions and that then depends on severity. This would not be a trivial matter though. Just being suicidal is not enough. Being catatonically depressed, and laying in your own shit, however, might be. Medication can absolutely be forced though as they are mandated to provide treatment.

Lastly, since I have seen Human Rights mentioned incorrectly often enough on this site. I will point out that it is ironically human rights law that allows you to be detained and lose your right to liberty. As this right is a limited right and can be restricted under certain criteria. Feel free to look at article 5. In this country that is covered by the Mental health act and a few other relevant acts. Other countries have their equivalency. You also have the right to appeal. Although rarely were any of my clients informed to a satisfactory degree about these rights. I am also left wondering why peoples rights, in general, are not taught anywhere meaningful? Or even as standard.

Hope that was informative.

Peace.
UK is massively different from the US. Electroshock has been out of practice for years. Getting stuck in a ward though is very much in practice.
 
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PDAnnie2610

Waiting for my bus.
Oct 27, 2019
701
I don't have experience with wards, but I think the rule of thumb applies with any battle: You give them information, they have better means to attack you. If that happens, I'd be on my very best behaviour. Always remember that if you rape a baby you will keep more human rights than if you are considered suicidal.
Lmao. But so true.
I don't plan to end up there.
I just wanted to hear some thoughts about it.
You are assuming therapy takes place in there. From my experience, not really.
There's group occupational therapy. Doing art and relaxation exercises. Otherwise it's days of looking out of the ward through the windows, missing the delicious food outside lol. At least that's my experience of being in secure units.
There is no electroshock therapy in modern psych wards. There are drugs however.
On the job, I work counter to your goals. I do not work in a psych ward but I will see you before you reach it in my area. That is all I can reveal. I will tell what works. Just don't be found too soon. Do not end up in the ER before the job is done. Everyone in the hospital is learning the SN method and knows how to bring one back if it is not too late.

There's still ECT in my country.. and they don't need your consent, only your family's consent is needed for that to happen.
And yes, they can force patients to accept treatment... I've had doctors who told me that the medication I refuse to take can easily be switched to a more painful form and enforced on me once every few weeks... even though I kept telling that retard that I can barely see after being put on that blasted paliperidone.
 
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Neurodamaged2

Neurodamaged2

Member
Oct 28, 2019
69
They took away my ability to consent to treatment, gave it to my family and convinced them only electroshock "therapy" would fix me. I had it forced on me. ECT is becoming in vogue in psych wards in Canada, the amount of hospitals doing it is growing not shrinking. And if it doesn't seem to work, they just advise more of it.
 
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Dawgmom

Dawgmom

Member
Oct 23, 2019
68
I spent years - YEARS - trying to rationalize suicide with different therapists. Here's want I figured out:

Therapists / doctors are in business to help people and even if they understand (I had found one who I really think did but said she was ethically bound to report me) they will do what it takes to prevent it. Police, hospital, jail, whatever, they will stop you. Some may seem like they don't have feelings bit guilt isn't something they can avoid.

The other thing I realized is I don't have to have anyone's permission or approval. I think for a long that was one of my problems. Like, I couldn't do anything because I wanted someone to reassure me. Not anymore.
 
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woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
They took away my ability to consent to treatment, gave it to my family and convinced them only electroshock "therapy" would fix me. I had it forced on me. ECT is becoming in vogue in psych wards in Canada, the amount of hospitals doing it is growing not shrinking. And if it doesn't seem to work, they just advise more of it.

Canada is one big, fascinating dystopia. Jesus.
 
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BridgeJumper

BridgeJumper

The Arsonist
Apr 7, 2019
1,194
I actuslly got around it by telling them 'I might not be suicidal now but I will still kill myself in the next 2 or 3 years' . Its even written in my discharge card
 
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