athiestjoe

athiestjoe

Passenger
Sep 24, 2024
412
I'm curious about your preferred terminology when discussing this topic. Do you lean toward terms like "suicide," "self-deliverance," "CTB," or "making a final exit"? Or do you prefer something else entirely? Additionally, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the implications of using the word "suicide," which carries such a negative connotation. Do you think people might feel differently if it were referred to as "self-deliverance" (a term popularized by figures like Derek Humphry in his writings)?

For me, "self-deliverance" highlights personal autonomy in the decision, free from the societal stigma associated with the word "suicide". I also have to admit that I've never been particularly fond of the acronym "CTB." While I understand the logic behind it—"catching the bus" or what I see CTB to stand for "ceasing to breathe"—it just doesn't resonate with me in the same way. But again, I totally get it.

What are your thoughts on these terms? Does the name matter? Names carry weight; they can shape perceptions, influence emotions, and affect how we relate to concepts and each other. Ultimately, the names we choose may reflect our values and attitudes. They can either reinforce societal judgments or promote understanding and acceptance. So, what's in a name? Quite a lot—it can shape narratives, influence decisions, and even affect the way we see ourselves and others. What are your thoughts on the power of language in this context?

Would you prefer to be described as having "committed suicide," or would you feel more comfortable with the notion of having "achieved self-deliverance"? Or do you even care what it is called? Although I guess since a rose by any other name would still be as sweet; whether it is called suicide or self-deliverance the bottom line that I cease to exist and suffer any more so it will be sweet regardless.

I'm eager to hear your perspectives.
 
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H

HerculePoirot

(Frozen account)
Sep 25, 2022
738
I like to call a spade a spade.
So: suicide. Euphemisms are pointless.
 
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W

whywere

Visionary
Jun 26, 2020
2,962
For me, I have and always will call it, "moving on to the next experience in my forever quest of existence"

I have always felt that the word suicide carries with it such an extreme negative cognation, such as the person was weak, or the person lost their marbles and the list goes on.

I have and always will be of the thought framework of 100% pro-choice and I always have deemed it necessary to NOT use the word suicide. I truly feel that everyone has the self-determined right to choose everything in this life and unfortunately one must try and remember what society will think, not only of the person commenting suicide BUT their family and friends after the fact, if that is what one, with NO outside influence, wants to do.

Like so very many aspects of "human life", no matter if it is a million years from now, there will always be some people who are VERY narrow minded and of course have a sharp and very nasty opinions on everything, and that of course includes the act of suicide.

Lots of well wishes and kind thoughts to everyone here, a true family in every sense of the word.

Walter
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
3,215
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Adûnâi

Adûnâi

Little Russian in-cel
Apr 25, 2020
979
Would you prefer to be described as having "committed suicide," or would you feel more comfortable with the notion of having "achieved self-deliverance"?
My country is deranged Ukrainian, so I can't be arsed about what they call it in their idiotic stupid tongue (which I refuse to consider mine). They can go die in hell.

I'm autistic, so I call a spade a spade - suicide a suicide. Being afraid of words is either Pacific Islander thing, or a Western liberal thing.

(Although to be fair, my Slavic ancestors called a bear "honey-eater" because they were superstitious, fuck.) Also, Voldemort. And <censored>. Or <censored>. I can talk however I want.
 
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star.trip

star.trip

Student
Oct 6, 2024
104
the choice of one name or another depends on the meaning that each one wants to give it. There're people here from different places and languages and they will use words to describe it. I like to call it 'the end of the journey', because I suppose that life is a journey in which you visit places, meet people (that maybe you only see once in your life or that accompany you for a while), live your experiences (that we value positively or negatively depending on what we feel), in my case, a series of adversities or torments.
Sometimes I wonder why this word has a negative connotation. I honestly don't know. it's just my opinion
 
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daley

daley

Student
May 11, 2024
151
Interesting topic @athiestjoe !
I recall that in German there is a word for suicide, Freitod which has more positive connotations.

I even found this link about how using different words for suicide can change the perception of people.

Here is a link to a news release about that study. One conclusion from the study is that news
reports should avoid using the word Freitod to paint suicide in a positive light.

As for the suggestions you made, I do like "self-deliverance", but it is a bit long and pompous.

Instead of the long "making a final exit", maybe I would prefer just saying "exit", which is
short and sounds pretty neutral to me.
 
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WhiteRabbit

WhiteRabbit

I'm late, i'm late. For a very important date.
Feb 12, 2019
1,449
Definitely not "unaliving". That shit is like nails on a chalkboard, as are most Tik Tok words.
 
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Alexei_Kirillov

Alexei_Kirillov

Missed my appointment with Death
Mar 9, 2024
904
Great question.

I'm of two minds: part of me agrees with @HerculePoirot and @Chinaski and just wants to get straight to the point--she killed herself--and another part of me wants to find a way to incorporate the subject's autonomy into the term. For the latter purpose, I'm partial to Jean Améry's term of "voluntary death." It doesn't beat around in the bush, in the sense that it still outright refers to death, but it carries a dignity that "suicide" lacks.

Especially with the ramping up of suicide prevention campaigns, I feel like CTB is being seen more and more as a preventable tragedy caused by treatable mental illness, that if only that person had "gotten help" (whatever that means), they could've been saved. At least for me, when/if I CTB, I want it to be clear that I knowingly chose this for myself, in full possession of my faculties and with sound judgement. Voluntary death communicates that better.

I use "CTB" only on SaSu because it's effective as a shorthand.
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
3,215
"voluntary death" does not adequately describe suicide. Captain Oates died voluntarily but did not commit suicide, for example.
 
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Deep Breaths
Aug 25, 2018
524
It depends on the context.

For more official contexts (legislation, news reporting, law enforcement, medical, etc.), I prefer "died by suicide" over "killed themselves" or "committed suicide." While technically accurate, I think "killed themselves" is crude in comparison, and I like that we seem to have moved away from the phrase. "Committed suicide" is an improvement upon "killed themselves," but I feel like "committed" has overtones of wrongdoing. So, I prefer "died by suicide" when looking at these options.

I've also seen phrasing along the lines of "died of depression" or "died of bipolar disorder." These can be OK, although I don't think I'd be inclined to speak them, myself. This is more a thing you might find in an obituary as the prerogative of a grieving family.

There's also "died at their own hand" -- I might use this phrase if I'm wanting a softer approach with somebody I'm talking to, although I still prefer "suicide" over this.

Here, I mostly use "CTB" just because it seems like the thing to do and I just roll with it. I might go with "ended their suffering" or "took their exit" instead, but only if it's a sensitive discussion where I feel compelled to find a balance between "suicide" and "CTB" which might feel too pedantic and flippant, respectively.

Any time I'm talking about pro-choice, I prefer to avoid the word "suicide" or most of the above-mentioned terms altogether (exception to "end their suffering"). One reason for this is because many of the terms carry connotations that bring about emotions in people, and I feel like these discussions are more likely to be productive if people are thinking more rationally than emotionally.

But another reason for this ties in with the concept of assisted dying, and any time I'm talking about supporting a person's choice, I'm also pushing for government-legislated, medically-supported assisted dying services.

Here in Canada where assisted dying is available to people including the non-terminally ill (except mental illness, of course...), government guidelines state the manner of death should be recorded as "natural" instead of "suicide," regardless of whether it was euthanasia or literal suicide. This, I agree with this, that in context of somebody accessing assisted dying services, the word "suicide" should be avoided.
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Vultures circle overhead
Feb 28, 2023
1,070
The meaning of a word is in its use, it really doesn't matter which unless it's misleading. I like "ctb" since it's a timeless acronym originating from the earliest suicide forums. Normally I use "kill oneself", "commit suicide", it doesn't matter.
 
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N

NoPoint2Life

Why is this so hard?
Aug 31, 2024
205
Maybe you guys are more familiar with this term, but I've only had one suicide in my life. His family began his obituary " NAME chose to leave this world on…"
Personally I only use ctb on sasu. I try to avoid saying any of the actual names if it comes up in conversation because it's too awkward since so many people know I tried to ctb.
I made a friend when I was inpatient and when I talked to her the other day, she just referred to it as " the incident"
When it's on the news or something, I'm don't care what they say. I am just happy They are being honest about cause of death.
 
daley

daley

Student
May 11, 2024
151
For me, "self-deliverance" highlights personal autonomy in the decision, free from the societal stigma associated with the word "suicide". I also have to admit that I've never been particularly fond of the acronym "CTB." While I understand the logic behind it—"catching the bus" or what I see CTB to stand for "ceasing to breathe"—it just doesn't resonate with me in the same way. But again, I totally get it.
Perhaps I am reading too much into the term CTB, but I think it can have a deeper meaning.
"Catching the bus" reflects on the forums in which the term is used. These forums, the "bus stops" are places
where exiting can be contemplated, without a need to rush or even ever make a decision.

There is always another bus.

One of the past forums, the web site Alt.Suicide.Bus.Stop, played on that theme.

So "Catching the Bus" could refer to exiting after significant self-reflection in the context of such a forum.
The opposite of an exit due to a momentary impulse.
 
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athiestjoe

athiestjoe

Passenger
Sep 24, 2024
412
I like to call a spade a spade.
So: suicide. Euphemisms are pointless.

Why is it even called a spade? At some point in time it was surely called something else, leading to a likely some utilitarian reason it was renamed or used in speech. Words can change over time for many reasons. I suppose I kind of agreed with you in premise with my title and joke about a rose by any other name being as sweet (my lit pun from R&J). I also do like directness, honesty and simplicity. I get and appreciate the utilitarianism of it though for sure.

Suicide itself could also already be a euphemism of sorts though. Before it came into use, various terms were used, often with more clinical or moral implications. In medieval times, the act was often referred to in terms of "self-murder" or "self-killing." Over time, "suicide" became the more accepted term, focusing more on the act itself rather than the moral judgment surrounding it. Words evolution and use is an interesting topic. If you don't like euphimisms then would self-murder or self-killing then be the best? Or does the societal change in perception leading to suicide as a term make it preferential in some way?

FYI not disagreeing whatsoever, just exploring the topic a bit to see people's thoughts around it and I really appreciate the convo on it! Thanks for being so direct in your thought process on it, good stuff.

This. "Killing your/my-self" is also appropriate. All else is froth.
"voluntary death" does not adequately describe suicide. Captain Oates died voluntarily but did not commit suicide, for example.
Words do in fact matter, as does context (along the lines of one of the reasons I brought this discussion topic up!) other than 'froth'. Just because he did it for the greater good does not mean he didn't commit suicide some could argue on a strictly definition basis (and since we give words definitions, perhaps the definition itself needs to change). Suicide: the act or an instance of ending one's own life voluntarily and intentionally. He acted intentionally and voluntarily and it resulted in the ending of his own life. To draw a distinction would be euphemistic or frothy for some then. Unless a spade isn't always a spade after all? This distinction of voluntary death could give an implication about the rational decision-making process or its purpose (like the 'greater good' of a sacrifice) which is also why some may not be euphemistic in choosing another word.

Again, I think everyone's POV is absolutely valid on whatever it is called or reasons for it and I absolutely hear you on yours; I value your insight and views. Thank you for lending your perspective on it!

Being afraid of words is either Pacific Islander thing, or a Western liberal thing.
People have been careful with words for a long time! In ancient Egypt, they believed that words could tip the balance between truth and chaos, so they chose their words wisely in sensitive situations. In ancient Greece, people thought words had real power, able to call on the gods or change things around them as seen in the works of Heraclitus and Plato for example. Even in the Bible (laying my own views absolutely aside when I bring up this point FYI), words are portrayed as super powerful—like when God created the world just by speaking. There's a big emphasis on being careful with what you say to avoid spreading lies.

So, while some folks might avoid certain words out of fear, it also could be about cultural beliefs and wanting to be respectful and avoid misunderstandings. Native American cultures, for instance, also held words in high regard because they believed what you said could shape reality. It's not just fear; there's definitely an element of respect involved. I suppose with my rationality here, my argument would be it actually really doesn't make a difference per se too, definitely goes both ways.

I think it's deeper than just being "afraid" of a word. Sure, fear might play a part, but respect is a big factor too. For me, self-deliverance has a layer of respect—it's not just about fearing a word. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Also, Voldemort. And <censored>. Or <censored>. I can talk however I want.
Thanks for the HP reference too. And yes, we can and should talk however we want about different subjects. All in the eye of a beholder. More so though just if anyone had a preference of the word choice, reasons why or if it even made a difference to them personally. For me, it isn't about onomophobia though. I guess in the end it really does not make a terrible difference just exploring how people think about it and so thank you so much for your insights!

I like "ctb" since it's a timeless acronym originating from the earliest suicide forums. Normally I use "kill oneself", "commit suicide", it doesn't matter.
Fair, to the point and direct! I figured for some or many it would not really make a difference or matter. Always interested in different viewpoints on any topic.
So "Catching the Bus" could refer to exiting after significant self-reflection in the context of such a forum.
The opposite of an exit due to a momentary impulse.
I really like that explanation! Words carry weight, right? Even if the outcome is the same, the way we frame it can show that it was a thoughtful, reflective decision rather than something emotional or impulsive. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!
It depends on the context.
True, also true. Context of usage also does matter! Fair point!
I even found this link about how using different words for suicide can change the perception of people.
Absolutely! Perceptions and times change. While, as mentioned above, it may not be a big deal, I was genuinely curious about your thoughts on it. I really appreciate your insights!
For me, I have and always will call it, "moving on to the next experience in my forever quest of existence"
Really interesting and well thought out! While I personally lean towards the idea of non-existence after death, I appreciate your perspective and fully respect your beliefs. It's great to hear different views and opinions, and I'm always curious to learn what others think. I believe everyone's beliefs are equally valid!
'the end of the journey',
Another good one. Simple and also to the point. Thanks for sharing that with me/us!
One reason for this is because many of the terms carry connotations that bring about emotions in people, and I feel like these discussions are more likely to be productive if people are thinking more rationally than emotionally.

Here in Canada where assisted dying is available to people including the non-terminally ill (except mental illness, of course...), government guidelines state the manner of death should be recorded as "natural" instead of "suicide," regardless of whether it was euthanasia or literal suicide. This, I agree with this, that in context of somebody accessing assisted dying services, the word "suicide" should be avoided.
Great points! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Words really do have weight, and their meaning can change based on context. While the outcome might be similar, it's definitely important to respect the decision-making process and not rush things. I found your observation about how it's handled in Canada really interesting—I wasn't aware of that, and it's a thought-provoking perspective.

I appreciate your thoughtful response!
Definitely not "unaliving".
Got a majorly good chuckle out of that one. Thanks for that! "They unalived themself" better not make its way into the vernacular but it just might but hopefull well after my existence ends and I don't need to endure hearing it. Cross my fingers and toes for that being the case.


All around well done folks; really awesome responses!!

Very much enjoying the discussion and lots of well thought out, meaningfully, all equally valid & on point things brought up. You all never cease to amaze me with your badassness! There is absolutely no right or wrong approach and I truly value each and every response on this topic to shed light on the different viewpoints and thought processes to it!
 
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Chinaski

Chinaski

Arthur Scargill appreciator
Sep 1, 2018
3,215
Words do in fact matter, as does context (along the lines of one of the reasons I brought this discussion topic up!) other than 'froth'
Quite, which is why l too would not use "killed himself" in an obituary l was writing for a newspaper, but context wasn't the question asked.

My chosen term for committing suicide is "committing suicide".
 
athiestjoe

athiestjoe

Passenger
Sep 24, 2024
412
Quite, which is why l too would not use "killed himself" in an obituary l was writing for a newspaper, but context wasn't the question asked.

My chosen term for committing suicide is "committing suicide".
Many apologies I wasn't more clear. Words matter! I think it lended itself to the conversation when I mentioned, "it can shape narratives" (narratives give context, just like the example you gave of Capt Oates gave context) but again since words clearly do matter I should have been clearer about it which is entirely my fault, my bad. The personal word choice itself and my reasoning for leaning to self-deliverance adds the context it was a rational, well thought out, not impulsive or emotionally reaction to it but again at the end of the day doesn't change the ultimate facts about it.

And thanks, fair enough! Noted and absolutely respect that perspective!
 
sweetcreep

sweetcreep

reincarnating as a worm
Jul 21, 2024
90
when i'm on here, i usually use CTB since it's widely known by all of us. in my own personal life, it usually depends on the person, i think. lately i've just been using "killing myself" or "taking my own life" and those both feel appropriate to me. if i'm feeling very shy about it, then maybe i'll use the term "leaving" but i haven't felt the need to use that recently.
 
Sewerslide222

Sewerslide222

soooo tired
Sep 8, 2024
27
I like the word suicide, i feel like there's something romantic about it, or to say that someone took their own life. I feel like that reflects the amount of pain they were in, and how fucked up this world can be, for them to decide to do a suicide or take their own life. Also i feel like whenever talking about it, it should be referred to with a name, even if it's not one of those, i feel like calling suicide ''doing the unspeakable'', or not naming it at all just disgraces it

Also i don't mean that in a way that you would always need to be in pain to do a suicide, but you know. Not really the case for me either
 
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butimbleeding

butimbleeding

Member
Dec 3, 2023
12
What an interesting question. Suicide definitely does have a negative connotation. Some even consider it a "sin" which seems incredibly judgemental to me.

Anyway, I sometimes think of it as "crossing over to the other side."
Not that I have any idea of what the other side is
 
Just_Another_Person

Just_Another_Person

Student
Sep 16, 2024
194
I prefer to say CTB here, in my opinion is more discrete and less impactful towards other people. Tbh CTB makes me remember a friend who said in their goodbye video on instagram that they were gonna catch a bus (which I only understood the real meaning when I came here). I wonder if they were a member here but I don't think is allowed to "reverse doxxing" and I think wouldn't be respectful.
 
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EmptyCurtainCall

EmptyCurtainCall

Member
Oct 11, 2024
68
lol suicide is perfectly fine for me
 
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lament.

lament.

the Immortal
Jun 28, 2023
174
I call it suicide if I'm typing normally and CTB if I'm typing quickly and talking to someone in the know. I'd say the word suicide probably does have negative connotation around it and maybe saying CTB lowers that a bit, but imo it honestly doesn't matter as long as people understand what it means.
 
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DefinitelyReady

DefinitelyReady

*perpetually annoyed*
Mar 14, 2024
1,179
"voluntary death" does not adequately describe suicide. Captain Oates died voluntarily but did not commit suicide, for example.
Sounds like you're reporting on how Captain Oates didn't make it back from the war...
 
folly_

folly_

on my puter
Oct 28, 2024
11
think it really does depend on the context, as a lot of people here have brought up

i used to use the word suicide because of the negative connotations, if that makes sense? i would try to kinda guilt myself out of thinking about it. idk, it made sense in my head (and did not work, lol). but after several years ive just started saying "killing myself" after i normalized it in my own brain, people would make jokes using the phrase, heard it a lot irl etc etc. generally if its an irl situation that requires some more formality i say "took their own life" since its not so clinical as "committed suicide" and not so vulgar (?) as "killed themself." havent been on this forum long so maybe ill start saying ctb eventually lmao (´ρ`)
 
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