What kind of advice do you give?

[weedoge]

Well said. You are right, there is a identical difference between suicide-Ed and encouragement. But wouldn't you agree that the rules should be clearer, so you don't have to run things by mods to see if it's allowed?

I just think the rule "encouragement is not allowed" is way too understated given where we are.

Tbh I think we don't really have to run things by mods, they've been pretty diligent at reacting to inappropriate content for the most part.

 

[Ben]

Tbh I think we don't really have to run things by mods, they've been pretty diligent at reacting to inappropriate content for the most part.

That's fair. If they can stay on top of it, that's great. I still think the rules should better reflect their reasons for moderating rather then relying on their judgement, even if it's been good so far. It would also help with a bit of clarity when it comes to these discussions.

I'm not trying to rally for change, I'm just pointing out some possible flaws that have been brought to my attention since I posted this.

 

[TiredHorse]

But wouldn't you agree that the rules should be clearer, so you don't have to run things by mods to see if it's allowed?

I didn't feel that I needed to run it past the mods, but I decided that such a detailed post ought to looked over by a more experienced eye. And there were several reasons why I approached Threads: I didn't (and don't) want to put the site in jeopardy; I didn't want to duplicate an existing megathread that I wasn't aware of; and I didn't want to offer a thread that might be seen as pedantic when I clearly haven't had much success with ctb myself.

IMHO, the rules here are, by necessity, a bit fluid in their wording. Information presented one way is technical advice; presented another way it's encouragment. All I changed in my EB/IG post to make it more instructional/less encouraging was a bit of punctuation. It was a grey area --as is the legality of this entire site. The mods need to be able to make judgement calls without members trying to lawyer them by pointing at fine print. I don't mind that, as the mods can then set the tone of the entire site --and thus far, I really like the tone of this site!

We are here with the understanding we will behave in a manner both civil and in keeping with the spirit of the site's intention: to offer solace and compassionate technical advice to those who have already decided for themselves that suicide is a viable option to be exercised only at their own discretion.

 

[Threads]

Hello everyone. Just be aware that we are a pro-choice forum, not a pro-suicide. I want to post a reminder of our rules.

Encouraging: Do not encourage users to carry out acts of any nature, only provide advice.

There is to be no encouragement of users to carry out any acts.

From our FAQ

-Is this site pro-suicide? What do you support?
We are pro-choice.
This means that if you wish to live, then we support your right to do so, and if you wish to die, then we likewise understand and support you. We do not encourage death, we simply accept that different people have different circumstances and thus they may decide an earlier death is a better outcome than lengthening a perhaps painful existence. We like to be open-minded.

Thanks.

Threads

 

[Ben]

I didn't feel that I needed to run it past the mods, but I decided that such a detailed post ought to looked over by a more experienced eye. And there were several reasons why I approached Threads: I didn't (and don't) want to put the site in jeopardy; I didn't want to duplicate an existing megathread that I wasn't aware of; and I didn't want to offer a thread that might be seen as pedantic when I clearly haven't had much success with ctb myself.

IMHO, the rules here are, by necessity, a bit fluid in their wording. Information presented one way is technical advice; presented another way it's encouragment. All I changed in my EB/IG post to make it more instructional/less encouraging was a bit of punctuation. It was a grey area --as is the legality of this entire site. The mods need to be able to make judgement calls without members trying to lawyer them by pointing at fine print. I don't mind that, as the mods can then set the tone of the entire site --and thus far, I really like the tone of this site!

We are here with the understanding we will behave in a manner both civil and in keeping with the spirit of the site's intention: to offer solace and compassionate technical advice to those who have already decided for themselves that suicide is a viable option to be exercised only at their own discretion.

Spot on. You should write the rules lol. And I don't mean to say the mods are at fault of anything. I acknowledge this is extremely sensitive stuff, and I'll agree that it's probably in the sites best interest to not get too technical. I'm also a huge fan of this site, and with all the "complaining" I'm doing, I feel I should just make that known. I think the direction I took the conversation caused me to be a bit unreasonable with my expectations. My intentions with pointing out a blurry definition out are just to improve the experience. If im making something out of nothing, which I'm starting to think I am, I'll just continue letting the mods do their thing without making more headaches.

 

[Ben]

Hello everyone. Just be aware that we are a pro-choice forum, not a pro-suicide. I want to post a reminder of our rules.

Encouraging: Do not encourage users to carry out acts of any nature, only provide advice.

There is to be no encouragement of users to carry out any acts.

From our FAQ

-Is this site pro-suicide? What do you support?
We are pro-choice.
This means that if you wish to live, then we support your right to do so, and if you wish to die, then we likewise understand and support you. We do not encourage death, we simply accept that different people have different circumstances and thus they may decide an earlier death is a better outcome than lengthening a perhaps painful existence. We like to be open-minded.

Thanks.

Threads

I have a question for my own peace of mind. I 100% encourage people to live if they have expressed they want to. Is that breaking the rules?

 

[GreenLantern]

Encouraging them to live until they are sure is probably right and makes more sense since once you die, you can't change your mind and come back to living again.

Another way of saying it is basically telling the person they have to figure that out for themselves. Being undecided on something as important as living or dying isn't something anyone else can advise you on.

 

[Threads]

I have a question for my own peace of mind. I 100% encourage people to live if they have expressed they want to. Is that breaking the rules?

If you derail threads giving pro-life advice or create threads solely about pro-life in the SS forum with no sort of discussion value and that are low quality. I will delete the thread/post, and possibly issue a disciplinary.

Pro-life threads can escalate into flame wars, so I actively monitor them.

 

[weedoge]

Encouraging them to live until they are sure is probably right and makes more sense since once you die, you can't change your mind and come back to living again.

Another way of saying it is basically telling the person they have to figure that out for themselves. Being undecided on something as important as living or dying isn't something anyone else can advise you on.

but that's where you quickly find a grey area. How do you know when they are sure? If you're not sure that they are sure, does that give you the right to continue giving that person "positive encouragement" when they don't want it?

It's because of these grey areas that, in general, it's easier to accept a persons actions and decision at face value and give them the interaction they desire. If you do this then I think those people will naturally go towards the decision they want to make.

Edit: It's also the issue with becoming personally close to people here on the site but at the same time, if we want to be taken seriously and have people respect us emotionally for choosing to die, then we have to do the same for our peers here, as hard as it can be. You're absolutely right that you can't choose to live again once you're gone and I also feel that it's important people are fully aware of the consequences of their actions, but all of these small variables generally need to be attended to by the suicidal individual and not a friend or guide or saviour.

 

[Ben]

If you derail threads giving pro-life advice or create threads solely about pro-life in the SS forum with no sort of discussion value and that are low quality. I will delete the thread/post, and possibly issue a disciplinary.

Pro-life threads can escalate into flame wars, so I actively monitor them.

I don't do that, nor will I. Any support I give is from a pro-choice standpoint. Thanks.

 

[GreenLantern]

but that's where you quickly find a grey area. How do you know when they are sure? If you're not sure that they are sure, does that give you the right to continue giving that person "positive encouragement" when they don't want it?

It's because of these grey areas that, in general, it's easier to accept a persons actions and decision at face value and give them the interaction they desire. If you do this then I think those people will naturally go towards the decision they want to make.

Edit: It's also the issue with becoming personally close to people here on the site but at the same time, if we want to be taken seriously and have people respect us emotionally for choosing to die, then we have to do the same for our peers here, as hard as it can be. You're absolutely right that you can't choose to live again once you're gone and I also feel that it's important people are fully aware of the consequences of their actions, but all of these small variables generally need to be attended to by the suicidal individual and not a friend or guide or saviour.

I meant when they know they are sure. I can't know what someone else is feeling or whether they are sure or unsure. That's why I said the person would ultimately have to decide for themselves rather than asking around if they are 50/50 on something this important.

I certainly was not saying encourage people to live if they have expressed that they don't want to anymore. I myself plan to ctb before the end of the month. I was saying in the context of the OP's question. If they person's undecided and they asked me, I would lean toward telling them to live until they know they are sure they're ready to die.

 

[weedoge]

I meant when they know they are sure. I can't know what someone else is feeling or whether they are sure or unsure. That's why I said the person would ultimately have to decide for themselves rather than asking around if they are 50/50 on something this important.

I certainly was not saying encourage people to live if they have expressed that they don't want to anymore. I myself plan to ctb before the end of the month. I was saying in the context of the OP's question. If they person's undecided and they asked me, I would lean toward telling them to live until they know they are sure they're ready to die.

My mistake yeah I'd say you're right. Anyway, I still think that mutual respect is important and best not to mistake someone's fear for being unsure about their decision. In my experience it's fine to ask if someone is questioning their decision, but then a simple yes or no should suffice even if behaviour suggests otherwise, all we can do to support people is our best.

 

[Trashcan]

I would encourage them to give life a try, get help, and see if they can fix the things making them suicidal. Because if they're 50/50 about it, there might be some hope for them.

 

[GreenLantern]

My mistake yeah I'd say you're right. Anyway, I still think that mutual respect is important and best not to mistake someone's fear for being unsure about their decision. In my experience it's fine to ask if someone is questioning their decision, but then a simple yes or no should suffice even if behaviour suggests otherwise, all we can do to support people is our best.

Thank you. Yes I respect everyone. Those who want to live and those who want to die, like me. I wouldn't advocate for someone to do something they don't want to.

 

[Retched]

There should be a third option. I'm not going to encourage them either way.

Agreed. No encouragement from me either. Just understanding of their choices.

 

[Ben]

Agreed. No encouragement from me either. Just understanding of their choices.

Alright, I should of added a third option. I didn't because it makes the question harder to answer, not because I wanted to filter opinions.

I'm sorry if anybody is upset, really. I only ever want to be positive, and it's a personal failure when I'm a source of negativity for somebody. Although, good discussion came out of it, so I don't feel that bad lol.

 

[b4sun]

To live , but everyone is different , state of mind , situations , environment , past all adds up
to what we are today , it's hard for others to be in the same shoes you're in.

 

[Jiva]

If he/she is 50/50, i can't help. He/She must found the answer, what does he/she want.

 

[Skathon]

I would "encourage" any individual to take his own decision. I cannot suggest a solution if the problem is unclear or unknown.

 

[ReadyasEver]

If you have a 50/50 shot of things to get better, I like those odds.

 

[Sanguinius]

I would "encourage" any individual to take his own decision. I cannot suggest a solution if the problem is unclear or unknown.

Yes, I think so too... I would listen to him/her and let the person decide.
When in doubts always to life. You can catch the bus anytime if it gets harder, but you can't leave it.

 

[furax53]

for me suicide is a personal choice

 

[Misanthrope]

I would probably listen to their pain. Knowledge would help me temper my advice appropriately. I would encourage them to exhaust alternative options if they have not done so. As death is the end of all potential.

 

[Sundayafternoon]

The path to the bus stop should be the absolute final option explored.

What makes you feel this way?

 

[Sundayafternoon]

I have no vested interested in the continuation or ending of anyone's life other than my own.

With no information about the person, I'd have to opt to mind my business. But, still remain truthful, - "Fam that's up to you. I can't live your life for you. Whatever you decide, just be careful."

I know it's a hypothetical but it's how i would reply in real life. Especially if the person won't/can't give specifics.

I'm not trying to catch charges for encouraging someone to kill themselves. They are doing that now.

 

[Sundayafternoon]

Well, I just think it's wrong to say there is no encouragement allowed in this site. If a user wants to live, I encourage them by sharing advice on how to get better. If they want to die, I will share advice, which is basically encouragement.

Look at the method threads for example. Are we really pretending we are not encouraging each other by telling them how tight the rope has to be?

I see a difference between, "Here is a safe(er) way to achieve X, if you plan to do it" vs "Hell yeah, you should kill yourself. That's my plan!"

 

[TiredHorse]

What makes you feel this way?

Because you can always ctb, but once you're on the bus you can't turn it around and get off again.

If anyone wants to contemplate ending their life, I applaud that, because contemplation of one's mortality is important for many reasons. But aside from moot discussions about afterlives and reincarnation you don't get to end your life and then change your mind.

 

[Sundayafternoon]

Because you can always ctb, but once you're on the bus you can't turn it around and get off again.

If anyone wants to contemplate ending their life, I applaud that, because contemplation of one's mortality is important for many reasons. But aside from moot discussions about afterlives and reincarnation you don't get to end your life and then change your mind.

That makes some sense to me.

I guess i get hung up on the fact that you can't successfully ctb and then regret it or change your mind.

I also have a hard time reconciling the struggle to get "better" with the inevitability of death.