What happens after death?

[Genetics]

What really happens after death? I have seen many videos where "mediums" people who can supposably talk to the dead say that when you go to the other side by suicide it is painful emotionally. I'm not scared, I'd rather be anywhere than on this earth but I'm just wondering.

What happens to the dead person? The police come and they call the coroner, they take the body to the morgue to perform an autopsy. Then they release the body to the family and the family will decide what to do, burial/cremation/stuffing and mounting above the fireplace.

After that nothing. You're dead and there is nothing you know or feel or see or experience. IMO there is no "after life". The only "after life" is death. It's just nothing, so opposite of what life is that I don't fear it at all. The actual act of dying freaks me a bit but less and less each day.

 

[one4all]

Only if you believe in Santa Claus.

Awww man... know you are really ruining it for me. Damn Easter bunny never showed up because of the CoVid shit.

 

[Supersadmommy90]

Although I'm hopefully there is something eventually that comes out of death, I accept that there may be nothing after death. To me that is the scary part because I love life. And I would like another chance at life if I could have it. But I accept that it may just be a total state of non-existence and honestly, I can handle that too.

 

[InTheAirTonight]

What is perception?

If a brain identical to yours at a given point in your personal history - down to the quantum states it occupies at a particular time - does come into existence in an eternally existing universe, would it not follow logically that brain would have your self-perception? I don't mean a clone, which could never share your perception, or a computer simulation, or anything of the sort. An exact physical brain, exactly identical to yours at a highly specific point of time, down to the specific pattern of neurons firing at a particular point in your daily existence now, floating in a universe in which all matter has scattered to the furthest possible point and the universe temperature is near-even across space.

Humor me on it. Because there is a statistically non-zero probability of this happening, and the probability inches ever upwards the longer the universe exists, and becomes exponentially more likely if the universe oscillates, to the point that, given enough time, Boltzmann brain doppelgangers of existing entities, in one form or another, will exponentially outnumber "real" entities like us now. It wouldn't even need to occur in an iteration of the universe which you had previously existed in. It would only need to occur at some point once the temperature of a given universe approaches relative equilibrium.

This. Is. A. Thing. Entire cosmologies are designed to avoid this problem simply because it seems preposterous - and yet no wholly satisfactory solution to the problem has ever been found. Because it's really hard to get around them: if this universe is eternal into its heat death phase, Boltzmann brains will begin existing in just a few hundred billion years. If it's recurrent, that simply means more universes to reach the state necessary for them.

Lmao... Dude I wanna be on whatever you're on

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Lmao... Dude I wanna be on whatever you're on

This. Is. A. Thing. And cosmologists literally do go out of their way to rewrite their entire understanding of cosmological development just to avoid this conclusion, to the point that reality literally either ends in googleplexes of alternate universes in which every possibility that can occur will occur (in which case you're going to live again anyway, because an exact reproduction of your neurobiology can occur) or in a reality in which Boltzmann brains, over the course of existence, outnumber beings like us exponentially. Pick your poison.

Again, I did not invent this theory. And there is no good, logical argument against it.

I've never understood why, assuming a universe that doesn't have an end, and doesn't necessarily repeat in a hard-bound deterministic fashion every single time, we should reject anything just because it seems like high school science fiction. In a reality that exists without beginning and without end, an arbitrarily large number of Boltzmann brains, identical enough to your biological brain at some point in your existence to produce a memory they never directly experienced, will exist as a consequence of quantum fluctuations reducing entropy to necessary levels or due to nucleation, whether in this iteration of the universe or any other. And according to the principle of identity, if A=A, and your perceptions are just a snapshot in time of the biological brain down to the quantum level, these brains will share your stream of perception. Your stream of perception can never end. It seems highly probably your field of perceptions (including qualia, the products of imagination untethered to the senses) spends most of its time, imagined as an uninterrupted chain, in unborn fetuses and Boltzmann brains

You'd never know you were a Boltzmann brain, unless instead you were a Boltzmann person in a spacesuit specifically designed to withstand the conditions of the heat death of the universe that reasoned this out, a vastly more complex, and accordingly unlikely, affair. It's likely "your" experiences would be infinitesimally brief and bizarre, memories blinking into existence and dying by the microsecond, snapshots of your qualia at a given moment in your life. But that's what "you'd" experience.

Not just any brain, but an identical duplicate, at any moment in your life, of yours now. A Boltzmann brain is an ultra-improbable event; a Boltzmann brain resembling yours to a sufficient degree exponentially moreso, to a near-infinite degree. Given time, it will exist.

To get around this circumstance, you have to prove one of two things:

1. Universes with properties like this one are finite and limited; that at some point there will be nothing. And you can't do that.
2. That a brain exactly identical to yours, down to its quantum construction(far more identical to your brain than that of a clone, because it shares every property of your brain at a given time) would not share your stream of perceptions, even if not your self-identity.

Given infinite time and the validity of the principle of identity, "you", for whatever quality of you, are immortal.

 

[InTheAirTonight]

To get around this circumstance, you have to prove one of two things:

1. Universes with properties like this one are finite and limited; that at some point there will be nothing. And you can't do that.
2. That a brain exactly identical to yours, down to its quantum construction(far more identical to your brain than that of a clone, because it shares every property of your brain at a given time) would not share your stream of perceptions, even if not your self-identity.

Bullshit assumptions. Why don't you instead prove the universe is *not* finite and that an identical quantum brain *would* share your stream of perception.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Bullshit assumptions. Why don't you instead prove the universe is *not* finite

The universe is finite. Indeed, within the observable universe we have a rough idea as to how many particles there are - 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. 10^80.

But even cosmologists who have spent their entire careers trying to refute universes that end in various iterations of Boltzmann brains, like Sean Carroll, essentially concede the issue when they argue that the universe sliding other another universe is more likely than Poincare recurrence of a self-identical universe at the end of this universe. That just repeats the problem once-removed.

and that an identical quantum brain *would* share your stream of perception.

The principle of identity should be inviolate in any universe with properties like ours. A = A. (Also, describing this as a "quantum brain" wouldn't be right; it's created by fluctuations in entropy in space. It just happens to share your quantum space to an arbitrary degree.)

I'm not saying you're going to reincarnate as a butterfly in a dream (or a butterfly dreaming he was you) or anything of the sort. I'm saying the most likely sequence of events is perceptual incarnation as Boltzmann brains and fetuses, with the occasional perceptual rebirth into a probabilistic universe akin to our own within some degree of tolerance. If this latter holds, it's likely that the entire history of the world up to the moment of your birth (or perceptual awareness, which is less definable) would be identical. And if this holds good, it's quite possible that reality would indeed start to diverge from the moment of your birth, each moment being probabilistically distinct from any counterpart the further removed you were from the moment of perceptual awareness. At the next instant your perceptual awareness becomes capable of recognizing itself, bam, you're a self.

Again, no spirits, no souls, just identity and an endless range of likelihoods. I'm not even invoking karma, although it would seem likely that any state of existence arbitrarily like this one is arbitrarily similar to it the closer your perceptual awareness would be to it in the cosmic chronology. I'm not saying that your quantum spirit migrates to a realm where it communes with spirit guides to determine your next steps.

What I am saying is summed up in two words: time and probability.

 

[Didymus]

What really happens after death? I have seen many videos where "mediums" people who can supposably talk to the dead say that when you go to the other side by suicide it is painful emotionally. I'm not scared, I'd rather be anywhere than on this earth but I'm just wondering.

No one knows. Period.

 

[Vault of Memories]

Everyone may have their beliefs or suspicions, but truthfully the only people that could possibly know are the dead.

 

[KiraLittleOwl]

Everyone may have their beliefs or suspicions, but truthfully the only people that could possibly know are the dead.

I am sure the dead don't know either.

 

[nztphill]

There is different theories, just wanted to see people's opinions. If you don't like my question then don't comment on it. Simple asf!

You and your mom are stupid.

Cause I'm a Blond..!On which argument you make the conclusion?

 

[Vault of Memories]

I am sure the dead don't know either.

Me too, but I'm saying if anyone were to know, it would be them.

 

[ForNow]

This. Is. A. Thing.

Again, I did not invent this theory. And there is no good, logical argument against it.

You'd never know you were a Boltzmann brain, unless instead you were a Boltzmann person in a spacesuit specifically designed to withstand the conditions of the heat death of the universe that reasoned this out, a vastly more complex, and accordingly unlikely, affair. It's likely "your" experiences would be infinitesimally brief and bizarre, memories blinking into existence and dying by the microsecond, snapshots of your qualia at a given moment in your life. But that's what "you'd" experience.

No offense, but my good, logical argument against this is that .....
1) I don't know who or what Boltzmann is -- never met him/her/them, never heard of him/her/them -- so I can't be what I never met or heard of.
2) The more you explain it, the less I understand it. (Sorry again, being honest.)
3) I have a graduate degree, and I still have no idea what you're talking about (again, no offense -- being sincere).

So ...... I have never met a Boltzmann brain in a spacesuit, but I'm pretty sure I'm not one.

And theories are ..... theories. Not a thing. A theory.

I agree with the other arguments that I can't prove that there IS life after death, but neither can I prove that there is NOT life after death. Which is even MORE reason for humanity to stop being such absolute d*ckw*ds to each other in THIS life -- assuming we only get one shot at this go-round, why botch it up and make life miserable for each other? That makes no sense to me at all. I've given up trying to understand human behavior.

And -- I agree with another argument (#29? i think) -- my argument in favor of "there is Something out there" -- can't create something out of nothing. Life does not mysteriously pop out of nowhere. It's against the laws of science. So there must be SOMETHING, but what that SOMETHING is -- who knows. That being said -- an energy, a life force, chi -- to me, is most likely neutral, and does not give a rat's ass regarding morality, ethics, etc., but is more of a "Natural Law" type of "things are created and things are destroyed" type of energy.

It's also too much for finite human brains to understand (the "where did it all come from" puzzle when finite creatures try to figure out theoretical infinite energies).

Still, interesting thread to read while we're trying to figure it all out ..... and i don't feel it was a stupid question at all. Just one that everyone has a different answer to, and really no one knows the answer to -- because (as it was mentioned a few times) there is no real proof either way.

 

[nztphill]

When you say"What happens after death?"...its like you pretending that you know what happened before...

 

[calendulo]

I do not know what happens after death.
I would like to think that something might to have on there, however I am not a guy who has faith.
Must to have a deep darkness, but so quiet...I hope so.

 

[Walilamdzi]

I just think there's a total cessation of this form of perception, and probably no perception of anything at all.

 

[nztphill]

Pretending? Wtf, go back to sleep. You are just assuming things. I asked a question and that's it. Seems like you did not understand the question. I would advise you to re read it. Shut the fuck up. Get the fuck off my post if you are going to be talking shit, dumb fuck.

You want me to say what you wanted to hear,another fuckminder it goes nowhere.You will ask later why the sky are blue and shit smells like shit. Another fuckminder praying for attention,what if I say that your life is fully controlled by something who can answer to some things, and maybe can be manipulated for next steps...who d want to take the risk to be puppet forever

 

[Vault of Memories]

Pretending? Wtf, go back to sleep. You are just assuming things. I asked a question and that's it. Seems like you did not understand the question. I would advise you to re read it. Shut the fuck up. Get the fuck off my post if you are going to be talking shit, dumb fuck.

You want me to say what you wanted to hear,another fuckminder it goes nowhere.You will ask later why the sky are blue and shit smells like shit. Another fuckminder praying for attention,what if I say that your life is fully controlled by something who can answer to some things, and maybe can be manipulated for next steps...who d want to take the risk to be puppet forever

C'mon ladies/gents their was no reason to get this hostile.

 

[Supersadmommy90]

I honestly in my heart wonder if death is like a portal, or some energetic phenomenon involving the subtle bodies transition between realms. Not everything about us is bio electric there are also bio energetic and subtle energetic phenomena that comprise reality. What is an emotion? These are God given experiences and there is a design orchestrated by God for death even if we can't know it until we're going off the cliff ourselves. and realms. Although I do believe in heaven and hell and the judgement of individuals by God. I believe there should be justice in death if not in life

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Let A be your brain at the very moment of your conception.

Let A+1, A+2, A+3, A+4, A+5, A+6, A+7, A+8, A+9, and A+10 be the total possible, theoretical outcomes to your life.

You run into the problem of Zeno's paradox quickly. In order to get from A+1 to A+2, you must experience A+1.1, A+1.2, A+1.3, A+1.4, and so on straight through to A+1.9.

And yet to get from A+1.1 to A+1.2, you must experience A+1.11, A+1.12, and so on.

Given Absolute Infinity as a reality...

Here's an essay by Michael Huemer, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Colorado arguing just this.

 

[Thenextone]

The following is simply my opinion :

After your death, you will experience "hell" for a while if you did evil things in your life.
Hell is going to destroy your soul. when your soul is destroyed, you will be salvaged up to the godhead, and your individual consciousness will cease to exist in this particular universe.

 

[Hel]

I have problemas with this because sometimes I "talk" to my death relatives, asking them to help me, and then I think "if they could feel me, that'd mean that there is a kinda conscious after-life, so when I die, all my pain from here is coming with me". So my pain is eternal, no matter if I'm alive or death, and that scares me even more.

Another times I think that I already killed myself and this is my hell, because it's impossible that things are this bad, and they are, and keep getting worse and worse..

 

[oopswronglife]

Nobody knows as has been said. Declarations to the contrary are just people trying to feel smart, in control, hopeful. Nothing wrong with trying to feel those things, it just bugs me when people declare them as fact, usually despite obvious holes and alternative possibilities, and argue with others. The question isn't stupid...its human.

 

[wantingtheend]

What happens to the dead person? The police come and they call the coroner, they take the body to the morgue to perform an autopsy. Then they release the body to the family and the family will decide what to do, burial/cremation/stuffing and mounting above the fireplace.

After that nothing. You're dead and there is nothing you know or feel or see or experience. IMO there is no "after life". The only "after life" is death. It's just nothing, so opposite of what life is that I don't fear it at all. The actual act of dying freaks me a bit but less and less each day.

nothingness for eternity

 

[omoidarui]

ima bookmark this topic, gr8 bedtime reading material

 

[Jumper Geo]

I will take a wild stab in the dark to answer that question, no matter when or where, we will all experience it one day.

1, Nothingness
2, Go to a lovely place where Souls gather
3, Ghost, haunt the Earth
4, Rebirth
5, Groundhog day in another dimension

I have uploaded a few short video's of rebirth, if you still want more answers check out the off topic afterlife thread below.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/afterlife-and-related-general-discussion.1428

Cheers Geo