Venting What do pro lifers even want?

[Severen]

There's more diplomatic ways to put that but I agree.

Being diplomatic is a very British thing to do... I prefer the German way of communicating. :)

 

[Alan James]

This nonsense started when Christianity was spawned... No wonder, people like Nero hated them. When these Christian cultists started existing, the Romans thought they were literally insane. They were the fucking freaks...

Religion bears much of the blame for brainwashing pro-lifers and whole society. The danger of religion (especially Christianity) is that it uses the knowledge of psychology and human biology, skillfully uses tools and embedded programs. These programs are very strong: even on this forum, you can constantly see the "fear of life after death" treads. Many atheists are afraid of life after death too (this is beyond logic, a control programm in our body). This is a purely evil, ruthless system of control and deception.

 

[Severen]

Religion bears much of the blame for brainwashing pro-lifers and whole society. The danger of religion (especially Christianity) is that it uses the knowledge of psychology and human biology, skillfully uses tools and embedded programs. These programs are very strong: even on this forum, you can constantly see the "fear of life after death" treads. Many atheists are afraid of life after death too (this is beyond logic, a control programm in our body). This is a purely evil, ruthless system of control and deception.

The perfect scam, really. The perfect religion to get as many believers as possible and extract as much $$$ from them as possible as well while turning them into sheeple... The pagans in Europe didn't fight to the last, for no reason...

 

[Shamana]

It's fine to believe that all life has value.

 

[Severen]

It's fine to believe that all life has value.

Such a belief does more harm than good.

 

[seekingoblivion]

I also think it is selfish...but on the other hand when someone here says he is about to CTB I have an urge to try to stop him...Maybe I am selfish too...But it is sad...Dont you think so? Or you dont have any emotion reading that someone is about to CTB...?

Yeah I feel that way too. If I was there physically I'd probably do something to stop them. But I know that for many it's not fair. I don't think it would be fair if I was ready to die and someone stopped me so I try to remember that.

 

[any%]

Wow and here I thought people on here would read and process posts carefully. Well, seems like I triggered quite a few people. Someone even openly questioned why I am here and then proceeded to ignore me, how very mature if there is someone bringing different aspects to a conversation that you dont like you simply banish them. Thanks for being just like most people IRL, full of yourself & pulling conclusions out of your desensitized bottom. A lot of posts here are really awfully pretentious & only consider one of the extrem sides of the spectrum. And the guy insulting me was like "this is a pro-choice-forum....(fill in more whining bs)"... Ye it is pro-choice, not pro-suicide, when will people finally understand that these are two pair of shoes?

 

[Shamana]

Such a belief does more harm than good.

You are free to believe that.

 

[Alan James]

It's fine to believe that all life has value.

According to this logic, everyone has the right to dispose of his life as he wants - this is HIS value. This is our life and our body. What right does anyone (other than ourselves) have to control our lives? It's like I will manage your car and your home, do whatever I want with them without asking you.

 

[any%]

According to this logic, everyone has the right to dispose of his life as he wants - this is HIS value. This is our life and our body. What right does anyone (other than ourselves) have to control our lives? It's like I will manage your car and your home, do whatever I want with them without asking you.

In most countries suicide is legal so where is the problem? You are free to kill yourself.

 

[RainAndSadness]

In most countries suicide is legal so where is the problem? You are free to kill yourself.

I could take a noose right now and hang myself in the closet. But that's not what this is about. It's about a dignified death. We want people to be able to leave in the most peaceful and dignified manner. And in a way that isn't gonna totally traumatize the people around them. And if assisted suicide would become legal, you could even die while being surrounded by your family. Isn't that a lot better than doing it in secret, in your closet? There is no dignity in that. That's why I want to legalize assisted suicide. People deserve to leave in peace. It's a shame we have to buy N from the black market. That's not how it should be.

 

[omoidarui]

Sorry but I have no place else to put this. Makes me laugh that pro-lifer finally got herself banned. @WideAwake is dead.

he's a man i believe, or so i gathered from our extensive PM debate yesterday in which he opined that we're all culpable for murder if we wish someone peace in a goodbye topic.

 

[Alan James]

In most countries suicide is legal so where is the problem? You are free to kill yourself.

In the case of an unsuccessful attempt, you are usually sent to a psych ward against your will. They treat you worse than a criminal. Even if you are terminally ill with cancer and want to end your unbearable suffering, they will enroll you in the mentally ill list. They also deliberately complicate this; they thoroughly remove all things with the help of which you can kill yourself effectively and peacefully. Therefore, a very low success rate of attempts to CTB - almost everyone has the experience of failed attempts.

The main problem in our bodies: SI, fear, pain, fear of failure. And it plays into their hands.

 

[LastFlowers]

he's a man i believe, or so i gathered from our extensive PM debate yesterday in which he opined that we're all culpable for murder if we wish someone peace in a goodbye topic.

Did they really? I'm guessing they came from the Facebook posts then.

 

[Vegrau]

Many people dont get this it seems. We are adult and we are making a choice right now. Its personal. It have no side. Its what we desire. What I desire and that is to die. I dont need to answer to anyone but myself. Their views doesnt concern me. What they want dont matter and I dont care. So why do people keep wanting to butt into my business? Its none of theirs and I dont need anyone to analyze it either. They dont know me and I dont have to explain myself to anyone.

 

[Alan James]

What I noticed is that pro-lifers and society are not opposed to you killing yourself - they are opposed to you doing it peacefully and painlessly. You can slow painfully die on the street being homeless and everyone will spit on you. But if you kill yourself peacefully - they seem to envy you. Even pro-lifers (subconsciously maybe) realize what kind of crap this life is.

 

[Severen]

According to this logic, everyone has the right to dispose of his life as he wants - this is HIS value. This is our life and our body. What right does anyone (other than ourselves) have to control our lives? It's like I will manage your car and your home, do whatever I want with them without asking you.

Yes, such a belief essentially makes it sin to do with your life, what you want to do with your life and also makes it a sin to take life in order to survive and thrive... And that goes against the very essence of his universe. And that's why most people are hypocrites today. Yesterday I ate a ham sandwich. Because of death. A pig had to die in order for me to eat this ham sandwich. All human beings survive and thrive off of death... And that is why such a belief would be considered insane back when people had common sense. They understood that this world was not a very nice place. They understood that death was just as necessary as the sun, the wind, the sea and the air... Back then, men often had to kill to put food on the plates of their wives and children.

What I noticed is that pro-lifers and society are not opposed to you killing yourself - they are opposed to you doing it peacefully and painlessly. You can slow painfully die on the street being homeless and everyone will spit on you. But if you kill yourself peacefully - they seem to envy you. Even pro-lifers (subconsciously maybe) realize what kind of crap this life is.

Sometimes I think, they are just jealous cowardly and sadistic people. They don't have what it takes to fix their lives or end it, so they want everyone else to suffer like they do. Like "Fuck you, if I have to live my entire life, so do you!!!"

 

[LMFAO FOCKERS]

he's a man i believe, or so i gathered from our extensive PM debate yesterday in which he opined that we're all culpable for murder if we wish someone peace in a goodbye topic.

I just assumed it was a woman. Women tend to go through that i can save everyone and fix everyone including their own boyfriends. I just dont see the average guy taking that much time out of his life for anyone to be a white knight saviour. But who knows.

 

[Severen]

I feel you are unfair...some ppl may be to blame like parents but there are also innocent ones like cousins, siblings so on...
Also if you are chronically ill who is to blame?

Are these cousins or siblings really innocent though if someone in their family is really hurting and they reach out to them but are only told to do some Yoga or take some vitamin D?

I just assumed it was a woman. Women tend to go through that i can save everyone and fix everyone including their own boyfriends. I just dont see the average guy taking that much time out of his life for anyone to be a white knight saviour. But who knows.

I see guys trying to be the knight in shining armor more often than women.

In the case of an unsuccessful attempt, you are usually sent to a psych ward against your will. They treat you worse than a criminal. Even if you are terminally ill with cancer and want to end your unbearable suffering, they will enroll you in the mentally ill list. They also deliberately complicate this; they thoroughly remove all things with the help of which you can kill yourself effectively and peacefully. Therefore, a very low success rate of attempts to CTB - almost everyone has the experience of failed attempts.

The main problem in our bodies: SI, fear, pain, fear of failure. And it plays into their hands.

Even if you are missing half your head from a failed shotgun suicide attempt, they will keep you alive to gloat over you or to pat themselves on the shoulder for being a life saver... WTF of fucked up shit is that? Even in war movies, we see soldiers killing their comrades to put them out of their misery...

 

[ExitTheDay]

Pro lifers can put on the pathetic facade about pretending to care about others, but in reality it's just all about making themselves feel better, whatever makes them fall asleep at night I guess

 

[gorganizing]

I don't think pro-lifers comprehend the agony that depressed, suicidal individuals face. I understand not wanting someone you love/care about to leave this world, but it's important to look at suicide from the perspective of those suffering. It seems that pro-lifers do not diversify their perspectives, because if they did, they would see how suicide can be an answer to ending a lot of agony and pain. Not only that, but pro-lifers who are against euthanasia are basically encouraging suffering (and/or painful suicides) as opposed to peace and relief. Maybe it's just my opinion, but it feels like they are saying, "Either stay alive or risk dying in ways not peaceful. You don't get to decide when to peacefully end your life because that choice is not yours to make." So who's choice is it, then? I particularly hate when people say, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." How would you know that it's temporary? In many cases, those trying to ctb have been suffering for a relatively long period of time.

 

[omoidarui]

I just assumed it was a woman. Women tend to go through that i can save everyone and fix everyone including their own boyfriends. I just dont see the average guy taking that much time out of his life for anyone to be a white knight saviour. But who knows.

He told me his story - he's an older man who was basically manipulated by the ABC pro-life propaganda, and crusaded here hoping to deter us from Exit with subliminal suggestions about cowardice, weakness etc.

Pathetic really.

 

[LMFAO FOCKERS]

He told me his story - he's an older man who was basically manipulated by the ABC pro-life propaganda, and crusaded here hoping to deter us from Exit with subliminal suggestions about cowardice, weakness etc.

Pathetic really.

There were plenty lies in his/her first posts. So any stories he/she told are just that to me, stories. They were becoming obvious lies and too difficult to keep up. Many of us pointed them out. I wouldn't believe any voluntary admissions. I'd prefer to sort through the data he/she involuntarily gave up through the multiple posts where the lies started falling apart.

But then again the person did link to a pro-life YT video with a man in it.

I just find it hard that a man would personally and directly insult my intelligence by saying I wasnt "bright". Sounded like a weak woman who couldn't hold her ground. Men tend to argue facts then label me a bitch behind my back for going toe to toe dissenting their opinions with raw facts. Unintelligent women tend to argue with me emotionally then insult me to my face. The insults were emotional in nature. Then again everything I type are generalizations. Idk...

I'm just glad he/she's gone. No need for us to argue over an a$$hole-ic human being.

 

[omoidarui]

I just find it hard that a man would personally and directly insult my intelligence by saying I wasnt "bright".

oh yeah, what was it they said, "You're clever but not really that bright"

an oxymoron vaguely reminiscent of the pro-life paradox "we want you to be happy but obliged to a life of pain."

 

[First loss]

Pro lifers can put on the pathetic facade about pretending to care about others, but in reality it's just all about making themselves feel better, whatever makes them fall asleep at night I guess

True. They want to feel good about themselves knowing they "helped" someone.

 

[21Neberg]

True. They want to feel good about themselves knowing they "helped" someone.

Well can you blame them? It's human not to want to feel guilty. Pro-life people annoy me too, but it's rational human behaviour.

 

[TAW122]

Yeah, if they don't like people CTBing, then they should actually seek the root causes and put an end to it or CTB themselves or STFU about it... If all these pro life people, got together and actually made the world a better place, there would be a lot less people committing suicide.

I agree with this. Sadly, these pro life people find that actually solving the 'real' problems that cause and lead people to want to CTB will take too much effort, too much time, and sometimes even go against their agenda of wanting others to suffer with them. They even believe that suffering is a virtue (which I strongly disagree with and diametrically oppose).

I could take a noose right now and hang myself in the closet. But that's not what this is about. It's about a dignified death. We want people to be able to leave in the most peaceful and dignified manner. And in a way that isn't gonna totally traumatize the people around them. And if assisted suicide would become legal, you could even die while being surrounded by your family. Isn't that a lot better than doing it in secret, in your closet? There is no dignity in that. That's why I want to legalize assisted suicide. People deserve to leave in peace. It's a shame we have to buy N from the black market. That's not how it should be.

Indeed and that is what some people don't get. Even the people who say that "you could always CTB, nobody is stopping you" or "CTB is so easy", my response to them is NO it isn't. It takes a lot of preparation in obtaining the means (methods and supplies) to do so, hiding it from others who will readily intervene (the 90-99% of people around them), mustering up the courage, and waiting until the right moment with the right circumstances. Then if said person is caught at any of the stages, everything goes to shit, all their efforts wasted, and their life gets worse (financially crippled, hospital bills, mark on their records, professional and social consequences, sometimes legal consequences as well (depending on the nature of the attempt).). By legalizing assisted suicide (along with having a very strict screening/vetting process and then having many safeguards in place) we would be able to allow people to safely, humanely exit this wretched world and also maybe people who otherwise might have gone out may even change their mind and stay.

Many people dont get this it seems. We are adult and we are making a choice right now. Its personal. It have no side. Its what we desire. What I desire and that is to die. I dont need to answer to anyone but myself. Their views doesnt concern me. What they want dont matter and I dont care. So why do people keep wanting to butt into my business? Its none of theirs and I dont need anyone to analyze it either. They dont know me and I dont have to explain myself to anyone.

Yet the irony here is that those same people, don't give a shit about said person's REAL problems (finances, living conditions, health, other social issues, etc.) and would just ignore those. Yet the moment said person wants out, oh no, they couldn't tolerate it or respect it. Suddenly, violating that person's business, agency, and rights are justified in their eyes (including the government, hospital, other authority). Furthermore, most of these people are hypocritical (there I said it) because they advocate for human rights, LGBT rights, women's rights, and many other things, yet when it comes to idea of deciding when, how, and where said person wants to die (on said person's own terms), they throw all logic and consistency out the window. I have nothing but contempt and scorn for these hypocrites.

What I noticed is that pro-lifers and society are not opposed to you killing yourself - they are opposed to you doing it peacefully and painlessly. You can slow painfully die on the street being homeless and everyone will spit on you. But if you kill yourself peacefully - they seem to envy you. Even pro-lifers (subconsciously maybe) realize what kind of crap this life is.

Which is the irony of the lot of them. One time, someone in a discussion (not about suicide in particular) mentioned about homeless people and she talked about how society forgets about them and doesn't care if they die. It becomes easy for the majority of society to just dismiss, and label them as lazy or even victim blame on the unfortunate. Talk about hypocrisy on their end. The last sentence makes sense and I think it ties into the shitty logic of "I'm suffering (pro-lifers) so you need to suffer with us!" kind of selfishness.

 

[Soul]

Can we stop calling them "pro-lifers"? They're anti-choicers.

 

[TAW122]

Can we stop calling them "pro-lifers"? They're anti-choicers.

I think it is too much of a habit to break for a good bit of us. But I do agree, we should call them something else than pro-lifers since pro-lifers refer to the people who are anti-abortion (which is a separate issue to the right to die). Maybe anti-suicide, or anti right to die (ARTD) perhaps?

 

[Severen]

I agree with this. Sadly, these pro life people find that actually solving the 'real' problems that cause and lead people to want to CTB will take too much effort, too much time, and sometimes even go against their agenda of wanting others to suffer with them. They even believe that suffering is a virtue (which I strongly disagree with and diametrically oppose).

It's because their brains have been infected with the Protestant/Calvinist/Puritan ideology... One of the most evil man made creations in human history. And the USA is infested by people who've been infected by this crap considering most of these nut jobs immigrated to North America because the Europeans found them to be intolerable... These people make the Catholics look like the good guys...

Can we stop calling them "pro-lifers"? They're anti-choicers.

How about pro suffering?

I think it is too much of a habit to break for a good bit of us. But I do agree, we should call them something else than pro-lifers since pro-lifers refer to the people who are anti-abortion (which is a separate issue to the right to die). Maybe anti-suicide, or anti right to die (ARTD) perhaps?

They are just pro suffering, really...

Well can you blame them? It's human not to want to feel guilty. Pro-life people annoy me too, but it's rational human behaviour.

For me, being human is not turning away from the truth to avoid feeling guilty. For me, being a human being is owning up to all the horrible shit I've done in my life and feeling guilty...otherwise I'm just being someone who is as cold as ice...