Ways to blackout before SN kicks in?

[Busdriver]

This is why I should have done what I said earlier and not returned to this thread. Of course it is possible to achieve terminal sedation along with SN. I indicated this in my first post or two the compounds that you mention are generally MUCH better options than benzos

I'm only relaying what I have seen first hand, many times.

1. Benzos are great for relieving anxiety
2. They are not great when used alone for rendering an individual unconscious under extreme stimuli. (There are tons of drug cocktails when placing someone in an induced coma say in the ICU for mechanical ventilation or for TIVA. None of these are benzo only. Alone, benzos are actually fairly safe because they don't produce the depth of sedation/anesthesia that barbs, propofol, or other compounds do. )
3. Trying to "time" oral benzo (or oral most things) use with SN to achieve what is being asked is a losing game. There will be extreme acute anxiety that will impact the time to unconsciousness. Likewise, taking a large quantity of pills can result in a beazor and delayed gastric emptying. A suspension of crushed pills will start to double or quadruple the volumes of water suggested and still not eliminate the timing issues.

I think the reason I view the pph more highly is the peaceful aspect and inherent desire of dr. n to avoid rampant speculation in favor of more medical or biochemical soundness. Absorption from the gi is complicated, and even more so when you add a reactive substance. There haven't been any aspiration reports with SN because SN isn't being taken in conjunction with high dose benzos. The individual is lucid enough to vomit.

Simply because SN works and taking a handful of Xanax can make most people sleep quite a while are both true does not mean both of these together are even better than one alone.

A standard dose of lorazepam, diazepam, or alprazolam an hour or 90 minutes before certainly could have a place. I've seen aspiration or pain stimuli under high doses of benzodiazepines alone. It isn't pretty.

It is interesting to read your point of views.

So what do you advise to make N as peaceful as possible?
A standard dose of benzos 60-90 before SN intake?
Any other ways?

People are dying here to know this

 

[eve2004]

I have the same worries about using benzos in combination with SN. I also wonder if it will induce a peaceful or painful 20 minutes.

I am convinced it can be peaceful according to this expert post of @Quarky00.

I don't know, guys. I think we should use SN with the recommended amount of benzos according to Stan's guide if it really bothers us.
Check Quarky00's posts there and draw conclusions and then discuss further

1) I'm on benzos so benzo tolerant.
2) I take an occasional dose of opiates but am not opiate tolerant.
3) Female, 100lbs

I recently took about a gram of SN (oral solution) in addition to my regular (depends on each person) dose of benzos and 50mg diphenhydramine. As a taste test.

I wore a blood pressure cuff to sleep (not too tight) and measured before sleeping and various times when I woke up during the night (1 gram wasn't gonna kill me but I wanted to see how big or small an effect it would have).

I woke up about 3 times and took my blood pressure (ie pressed a button).

My BP went down significantly during the night. I am typically in the 130 / 90 range or higher. The first time I woke up, maybe 2 hours after falling asleep, my bp had gone done to around 90 / 60. The next 2 times I woke up and took my bp it had gone down again to around 85/55.

This was on one gram of SN. I measured it with a kitchen scale. Placed empty cup on scale, reset scale to zero, spoon out some SN into cup... a gram at least, probably a bit more but my scale doesn't go into mg. I added some water and downed it. Not tasty but didn't get nauseous. Of course it's only 1 gram.

I woke up fine the next morning, bp had gone up to 110 / 70 or so... I went about my day as usual, did a workout, had a psych appointment (obviously did not mention this), took a walk, felt completely normal.

I have a naturally high tolerance to any meds, maybe chemicals in general. Just wanted to share my experience. Besides the BP going down a lot, I felt mildly uncomfortable during the night, very slightly nauseous, that's about it.

I'm not arguing for or against any opinion on what people should do, but just wanted to share my experience.

I'm surprised one gram would physiologically affect me even if I generally felt fine. I've taken massive doses of depressants so did not think anything would happen at all.

My bp has never gone down that low even on sketchy opiates that knocked me out within 5 minutes.

Didn't mean for this post to be so long, sorry!

 

[Busdriver]

1) I'm on benzos so benzo tolerant.
2) I take an occasional dose of opiates but am not opiate tolerant.
3) Female, 100lbs

I recently took about a gram of SN (oral solution) in addition to my regular (depends on each person) dose of benzos and 50mg diphenhydramine. As a taste test.

I wore a blood pressure cuff to sleep (not too tight) and measured before sleeping and various times when I woke up during the night (1 gram wasn't gonna kill me but I wanted to see how big or small an effect it would have).

I woke up about 3 times and took my blood pressure (ie pressed a button).

My BP went down significantly during the night. I am typically in the 130 / 90 range or higher. The first time I woke up, maybe 2 hours after falling asleep, my bp had gone done to around 90 / 60. The next 2 times I woke up and took my bp it had gone down again to around 85/55.

This was on one gram of SN. I measured it with a kitchen scale. Placed empty cup on scale, reset scale to zero, spoon out some SN into cup... a gram at least, probably a bit more but my scale doesn't go into mg. I added some water and downed it. Not tasty but didn't get nauseous. Of course it's only 1 gram.

I woke up fine the next morning, bp had gone up to 110 / 70 or so... I went about my day as usual, did a workout, had a psych appointment (obviously did not mention this), took a walk, felt completely normal.

I have a naturally high tolerance to any meds, maybe chemicals in general. Just wanted to share my experience. Besides the BP going down a lot, I felt mildly uncomfortable during the night, very slightly nauseous, that's about it.

I'm not arguing for or against any opinion on what people should do, but just wanted to share my experience.

I'm surprised one gram would physiologically affect me even if I generally felt fine. I've taken massive doses of depressants so did not think anything would happen at all.

My bp has never gone down that low even on sketchy opiates that knocked me out within 5 minutes.

Didn't mean for this post to be so long, sorry!

I am glad you felt ok after testing. It seemed quite peaceful for you.

Please be careful with testing since even a few grams of SN can be lethal.

I guess you are more confident now to use a full CTB dose of 20-25g when ready.

 

[eve2004]

I am glad you felt ok after testing. It seemed quite peaceful for you.

Please be careful with testing since even a few grams of SN can be lethal.

I guess you are more confident now to use a full CTB dose of 20-25g when ready.

I'm not confident. I'm aiming to test again with a higher dose. To get to a certain « threshold » to see how my body reacts. I did not take any anti emetics and I had a full stomach of food. Sadly, my body is very resilient, which is why I feel I can take liberties and « test ».

I've taken massive cocktails of meds that would send anyone to the hospital and nothing happened. Given all this, I wasn't expecting my blood pressure to go down so much so that's at least a bit encouraging haha.

 

[Living sucks]

I'm not confident. I'm aiming to test again with a higher dose. To get to a certain « threshold » to see how my body reacts. I did not take any anti emetics and I had a full stomach of food. Sadly, my body is very resilient, which is why I feel I can take liberties and « test ».

I've taken massive cocktails of meds that would send anyone to the hospital and nothing happened. Given all this, I wasn't expecting my blood pressure to go down so much so that's at least a bit encouraging haha.

Keep in mind that 2.6g is considered a lethal dose. So if you don't want to ctb be cautious.

 

[eve2004]

Keep in mind that 2.6g is considered a lethal dose. So if you don't want to ctb be cautious.

Thanks for the warnings. I sincerely appreciate it. I'm reckless because I have been in the past and not only did I not end up in the hospital but felt absolutely as normal AF...

But yeah, it's something to consider seriously. Although, WTF, if I die, I die. That's the goal...

 

[Aap]

As I've mentioned before benzos and N are synergistic. Both act on the gaba receptor linked to a chloride channel. One opens it more frequently and one keeps it open longer. If you are concerned, take both together. There is no need to worry about timing dosages. Benzos alone are actually very safe and have a ceiling of max effect. Together with N the effect is synergistic. N alone is fine, N plus huge dose of benzos (provided they are pulverized)is just as good or even better.

 

[Donk]

@Aap so do you recommend not taking benzos with SN? is there a risk of aspiration even if you dont take benzos? fyi.. i will be following stans guide.

 

[Aap]

A standard dosage (or double) taken with the antiemetic can help with anxiety, and I suspect some of the initial vomitting is due to anxiety. I do not think trying to time a massive dosage is worth doing.

 

[Busdriver]

A standard dosage (or double) taken with the antiemetic can help with anxiety, and I suspect some of the initial vomitting is due to anxiety. I do not think trying to time a massive dosage is worth doing.

There is some consensus then about the standard and double benzo dose to use with SN by Stan, Quarky00, you, and others.

In this post you explained when taking a massive dosage it should not be in pill form, otherwise pills bind to each other and become a beazor, rendering the several different substances less effective.

I asked how would you make N as peaceful as possible before, but I actually meant SN. So how woud you make it as peaceful as possible? A benzo solution/suspension?
In the earlier enclosed post of you, you would take Dilantin 15-20 minutes after SN ingestion, but then you have to 'suffer' the 'discomfort' of the 1st 15-20 minutes. How would you make the SN method mimic the N method, so passing out peacefully after ~5 minutes?

 

[Readytoenditall]

Maybe you know more about it than I do, because...I've never tried it before; I've only ordered it as a means of (hopefully) blacking out before taking SN.

How long do you suppose Nitrous Oxide lasts? My SN is supposed to ship to my house today, so I guess I'm extra anxious about making sure my (admittedly janky-ass) form of analgesic is effective before I hopefully use it to blank me out while my SN takes effect.

My nitrous oxide is supposed to arrive in about a week. Until then, I can't really be a genuine resource on its actual effectiveness as a 20 minute - 1 hour limit blackout tool.

I've taken a lot of that in the past (it's called whip it's usually when it's done recreationally) and pretty much no matter how much you take max effect will be about a min. Your lungs can only hold so much, and I've seen people immediately slump over and start drooling then be fine in a couple mins. So probs not the best one to use

 

[Aap]

I think you are missing the "cannot be in pill form" and misquoting me. Likewise, I was responding to two different things SN vs N that have two different mechanisms of action, times to unconsciousness, and potential reeactivities.

 

[Busdriver]

Yes, I meant 'not in pill form'. I have just edited my post. I am only interested in SN. Care to share you recipe of a peaceful SN mix?

 

[Aap]

I've given reasons several times why taking a massive dose of benzos with SN shouldn't be done. Beyond taking a moderate dose with the antiemetic to combat anxiety (potentially along with a dose of propranolol), I wouldn't go further down that route with benzos. There are potential items (such as elavil) or certain things via IV that are sedating and potentially lethal on their own, but I don't think there is a satisfactory answer to your question.

if SN were as peaceful as N or propofol, then it would be in use everywhere, as SN is neither controlled nor expensive.

 

[Busdriver]

I've given reasons several times why taking a massive dose of benzos with SN shouldn't be done. Beyond taking a moderate dose with the antiemetic to combat anxiety (potentially along with a dose of propranolol), I wouldn't go further down that route with benzos. There are potential items (such as elavil) or certain things via IV that are sedating and potentially lethal on their own, but I don't think there is a satisfactory answer to your question.

if SN were as peaceful as N or propofol, then it would be in use everywhere, as SN is neither controlled nor expensive.

Thank you for the answer.
We are of course always trying to improve the, now standard, SN process researched by Stan and others.
IV items are nice, but I and others here unfortunately don't have the know-how to use it properly

OOPS, I misread what you said about 'double dosing antiemetic'. I read 'double dosing benzo'...
I am starting to get stupid..
I think what everything here would like to know how you can easily make SN peaceful, with relatively simple items to acquire, like benzos.
So you would advise not using benzos for a peaceful SN? Sorry for asking so many times.

 

[Aap]

Apologies for not being clear. With the antiemetic, there is place for a standard or double dose of a fast acting benzo along with a small or moderate amount of propranolol. Both the benzo and propranolol will help with anxiety, and the propranolol may reduce some symptoms of the SN.

I will also state, I've seen the discussion of Z drugs. I think these are far inferior than standard benzos for a variety of reasons (not really anxiolytics, don't increase seizure threshold, and have massive side effects of somnambulance (sleep walking)). I'm not really interested in getting in the debate, but I would strongly discourage their usage in this setting if for no other reason (and there are many reasons) than the sleep walking.

 

[Busdriver]

Thank you

 

[Aap]

My friend, I'm sorry you are incorrect. Have you suctioned a mass of pills out of a stomach?

here,given the severity of possible decisions, I ONLY comment on things of which I am familiar. Certainly, I agree not to take anyone at face value, as you yourself prove.

 

[Aap]

Look, you started by insulting me personally. You obviously don't care about any "evidence," as a simple search returned this (FYI, it happens more often than you think. The clumped pills most often pass but absorption and standard kinetics formulas get shot to hell)

Endoscopic removal of a gastric pharmacobezoar induced by clomipramine, lorazepam, and domperidone overdose: a case report

Gastric pharmacobezoars are a rare entity that can induce mechanical gastric outlet obstructions and sometimes prolong toxic pharmacological effects. Certain medications, such as sustained-release forms, contain cellulose derivatives that may contribute ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Endoscopic removal of a gastric pharmacobezoar induced by clomipramine, lorazepam, and domperidone overdose: a case report

 

[Aap]

I'm done replying to you. You insulted me and then called me a liar. Now you are changing your premise. I know I'm not the only one who sees that. (Just as an aside, I actually addressed what happens in the situation you described)

 

[Busdriver]

Please let's not insult or offend each other.

Let's just discuss things i.e. benzo use for peaceful SN and define a best practice.

Right now we have very useful information from Quarky00, Stan, Jumper Geo, others, and Aap. Based on discussion we might be able to improve the SN process.

 

[Aap]

Great, now I just look like I was arguing with myself...lol

 

[Loner]

Apologies for not being clear. With the antiemetic, there is place for a standard or double dose of a fast acting benzo along with a small or moderate amount of propranolol. Both the benzo and propranolol will help with anxiety, and the propranolol may reduce some symptoms of the SN.

I will also state, I've seen the discussion of Z drugs. I think these are far inferior than standard benzos for a variety of reasons (not really anxiolytics, don't increase seizure threshold, and have massive side effects of somnambulance (sleep walking)). I'm not really interested in getting in the debate, but I would strongly discourage their usage in this setting if for no other reason (and there are many reasons) than the sleep walking.

I was thinking about taking about 3 Zopiclone tablets before drinking SN. I don't have any anxiety reducing medications . Is it okay to do that?

 

[Aap]

Have you taken it before? I've definitely met the ambien walrus by taking a prescribed dosage when it came out.

I cannot give you any certainty, nor can anyone else. If one doesn't have a history with a drugs, I wouldn't advise taking them here. But ymmv

 

[Loner]

Have you taken it before? I've definitely met the ambien walrus by taking a prescribed dosage when it came out.

I cannot give you any certainty, nor can anyone else. If one doesn't have a history with a drugs, I wouldn't advise taking them here. But ymmv

I have taken Zopiclone when I absolutely needed one. So I have taken them like maybe once a month or something like that. I have never taken many medications in my life. One Zopiclone gives me nearly four hours of sleep. Since I don't have any anxiety medications, I thought it would help me if I took something like 3 Zopiclones before drinking SN. I just hope it won't make me feel worse...

 

[Aap]

I think given the anxiety/intensity of the situation, Zopiclone Will be less sleep inducing than you are used to. My opinion, and it is just that in case, is that I would not want to take something that has a small but real chance of causing me to act in a completely random or unpredictable way (Could be sleep walking, driving a car, making a phone call, etc.)

you have a higher likelihood of having a negative reaction as the dose of zopiclone increases. If you typically do not have any negative reactions to zopiclone, you might stick to the same dosage. Like I said before, I can't guarantee you will or will not have a negative reaction. It's a risk management question, and My variables may differ than yours.

 

[Loner]

I think given the anxiety/intensity of the situation, Zopiclone Will be less sleep inducing than you are used to. My opinion, and it is just that in case, is that I would not want to take something that has a small but real chance of causing me to act in a completely random or unpredictable way (Could be sleep walking, driving a car, making a phone call, etc.)

you have a higher likelihood of having a negative reaction as the dose of zopiclone increases. If you typically do not have any negative reactions to zopiclone, you might stick to the same dosage. Like I said before, I can't guarantee you will or will not have a negative reaction. It's a risk management question, and My variables may differ than yours.

Thanks a lot. I might take one before drinking SN.. Thanks a lot for letting me know what you think.

 

[Busdriver]

We don't want the pills to form a bezoar in the stomach. So, what is advised?

Crush the anti-emetic, painkiller, benzo, beta blocker, acid reducer so it becomes powder and then swallow each with water according to known (Stan's/Quarky's/Jumper Geo's) regimen?

 

[Aap]

You are taking the items you mentioned an hour before, so that works out in your favor. However, As you are trying to avoid excess water consumption, it is a good idea to do this, or at least quarter the pills.

 

[eve2004]

I am glad you felt ok after testing. It seemed quite peaceful for you.

Please be careful with testing since even a few grams of SN can be lethal.

I guess you are more confident now to use a full CTB dose of 20-25g when ready.

FYI I repeated this test with a similar amount or a little bit more and the lowering of blood pressure is not random. It happened almost 10 minutes (maybe less) after I drank the SN.

BP went down to from 130/90 to around on average 85/55 with just over a gram. Stomach was full, conditions certainly not ideal, but BP change was surprising given that I've taken "worse" cocktails with zero effect.

I'm extremely tolerant to nearly all drugs naturally, so again, am surprised this little SN had this "much" of an effect. It's all relative but just relaying my experience if it helps at all.