Vegan?

[Pegasus]

Ok I lied I won't stop for one more comment. India is a vegetarian nation in large...not a wealthy western country. It's also a strawman because if all you have accessible is meat that's another story. If you can choose...it's different. You guys can gang up and justify your desires though. I'm out on this topic. That so many people who suffer and are treated badly can't extend this understanding to animals is so disappointing.

I just feel that it's all being part of the food chain. But agreed, no point in arguing. Just the same as religion. It turns into a circle-jerk.

 

[stellabelle]

Those animals are not humans with a choice and feeling like empathy...they are eating what they can when they can to survive. Most wild carnivores are obligate carnivores as well. We do not need meat...and we DO have a choice. I am going to stop because this is like arguing about religion...its too personal and ego driven for people and they cannot be honest about it. It's just sad to me.

I'm perfectly honest about it.

 

[Johnnythefox]

I'm away to eat a distant relative!
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A Banana......

 

[sif]

Exactly. If a bear decides I'm it's next meal, that's just life. Should it feel empathy? Nope.

but of course the point is that we don't just hunt our food, we raise it and often in brutal conditions and treat them as if they're not living feeling things. I respect your opinion though.

 

[Smilla]

but of course the point is that we don't just hunt our food, we raise it and often in brutal conditions and treat them as if they're not living feeling things. I respect your opinion though.

What's interesting to me also is that primitive cultures literally worshipped their kill. We are so far removed now from the source of our nourishment it causes our empathy wiring to malfunction.

When I was 3 I thought chocolate milk came from brown cows.

 

[stellabelle]

but of course the point is that we don't just hunt our food, we raise it and often in brutal conditions and treat them as if they're not living feeling things. I respect your opinion though.

Unfortunately that is true for many factory farms. Some think that the animals are not intelligent enough to care or simply do not know any different. It also has quite the environmental impact as well.

 

[GiveMeNovacaine]

I think buying animal products is wrong. If some more advanced alien race came to Earth and exploited us like we do animals, we wouldn't be happy about it at all.

That being said, I'm not a vegan because I eat whatever animal products my family buys. It's all good though because I'll be gone soon and won't contribute to that anymore.

 

[MexicanTravels]

In Africa many people have no choice but to eat meat. This veganism movement is promoted by rich Westerners with unlimited food in their bellies.

I agree with the points @oneofthesedays brings up. There are actually a few indigenous and ancient cultures that abstained from meat (some Buddhists and Pythagoreans come to mind), so saying that the vegan/vegetarian movement is peddled by rich Westerners is flawed. I actually feel like animal rights and the right to die in humans are intimately related. The laws regarding our philosophies towards death are based more on religious rather than thoughtful philosophical principles. Another culture that is usually demonized by the West are the Aztecs. Many Aztecs held vegan diets and their civilization didn't frown upon suicide either. Perhaps that's why A, as a Mexican, doesn't feel bad about selling N.

I'm vegetarian because in the Deep South where I live, there are very few vegan options (it's called barbecue country for a reason). When presented with a vegan option, I take that though. Besides the "animals are sentient beings that shouldn't be consumed" argument, I acknowledge the environmental impact animal husbandry has on the planet. I may not want to live here any longer, but I respect the wishes of those that do and hope to mitigate my damage to them and future generations as much as possible.

Also, if Christianity is your thing check this article out about Christian vegetarianism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_vegetarianism

I'm a magical realist at heart, so when it comes to how I understand the world, I think less in terms of progress and more in terms of magic. Could we unlock an Edenic paradise if we all stopped eating animals? The world is pretty absurd and magical already. Magical thinking doesn't make it any more absurd.

 

[Thoughtforms]

I stopped eating pork/beef 15 years ago. I've been a full vegetarian for 6 years. I would never go back to eating meat. Ive gone so long without it, it seems weird to eat a dead animal to me.
Ive seen pig slaughter houses. They are so dirty, disgusting and smell like rotting flesh. I can't understand why anyone would eat that. I am sorry but it's the truth :(

I eat vegan most of the time but it's hard when milk is hidden in so many products. I do think we're not meant to consume cow's milk though. You wouldn't drink rat's milk.

 

[Thoughtforms]

In Africa many people have no choice but to eat meat. This veganism movement is promoted by rich Westerners with unlimited food in their bellies.

How? Meat is so much more expensive than grains and veg. Being vegetarian is really cheap! Eating meat is what's expensive. Most of us don't eat fancy fake products like quorn.

 

[Thoughtforms]

Intestinal Length
Animals who hunt have short intestinal tracts and colons that allow meat to pass through their bodies relatively quickly, before it can rot and cause illness. Humans' intestinal tracts are much longer than those of carnivores of comparable size. Longer intestines allow the body more time to break down fiber and absorb the nutrients from plant-based foods, but they make it dangerous for humans to eat meat. The bacteria in meat have extra time to multiply during the long trip through the digestive system, increasing the risk of food poisoning. Meat actually begins to rot while it makes its way through human intestines, which increases the risk of developing colon cancer.

 

[stellabelle]

I think buying animal products is wrong. If some more advanced alien race came to Earth and exploited us like we do animals, we wouldn't be happy about it at all.

That being said, I'm not a vegan because I eat whatever animal products my family buys. It's all good though because I'll be gone soon and won't contribute to that anymore.

Some conspiracies point to ET as using humans for slavery.

"Many believe that the Annunaki extracted massive amounts of gold using human labor — this is derived from multiple discoveries of ancient mining tunnels in South Africa, as well as relics and links to the Sumerians. "No one knows why they wanted gold, no one knows how much was taken," said Tellinger. He added that the Annunaki introduced the concepts of money, finance and debt to human societies."

Source
https://www.gaia.com/article/anunnaki-101-the-ancient-gods-of-sumer

 

[Thoughtforms]

I also find it hilarious that most people think cow's just naturally produce milk constantly. No, we have to artificially impregnate them.

 

[Smilla]

I also find it hilarious that most people think cow's just naturally produce milk constantly. No, we have to artificially impregnate them.

As sad as it is this is true.

Baby cows are torn away from their mothers at birth so that Mama cow can get pregnant ASAP.

 

[stellabelle]

I also find it hilarious that most people think cow's just naturally produce milk constantly. No, we have to artificially impregnate them.

Yup. The dairy industry is quite repulsive.

There is pus in milk as well.

 

[Pegasus]

I bet they are referring to undeveloped bushlands etc where crops don't grow well and there aren't shops around etc and hunting animals is about all there is available. Such places do exist....but its not a valid argument against avoiding meat in general when possible.

Way to "assume" what someone means. Humans have the teeth of omnivores. We've evolved to eat everything including meat, vegetables and McDonald's.

 

[therhydler]

I was vegetarian for a long time and tried to be vegan but I love cheese too much... though I always cooked vegan at home and when I ate out it was always in vegan places. We have a load of them in my city. I think the meat industry is absolutely horrendous, though now they force me to eat meat in the hospital. I would not mind eating my own animals from my own farm for example if I knew they had a quality life and quick painless death, but the way animals are treated in the meat industry and how much they suffer while still alive makes me sick

 

[Ukmale]

I love most types of meat. I grew up rurally. It tends to be city folk that have never seen a cow that become vegetarian or vegan.

 

[Thoughtforms]

This is untrue. I grew up rurally and know plenty of people who did that become vegetarian/vegan. I think this was just a shot at "ignorant city folk". I don't know how someone can see and spend time with a cow and not feel guilty and wrong about it. They have personalities, they feel, they suffer if allowed and in the conditions they are forced to live that's most of the time. If you want to eat meat, eat meat, but don't try and paint it as some silly movement by inexperienced apartment dwellers.

You are right. My ex grew up in the middle of nowhere in Wales and seeing the farming industries, he became an animal protestor.

 

[MexicanTravels]

I love most types of meat. I grew up rurally. It tends to be city folk that have never seen a cow that become vegetarian or vegan.

Not true. I grew up on one of those free-range farms in the rural Deep South and my siblings and I all still became vegetarians. City folk simply have more opportunities when it comes to vegan/vegetarian cuisine and are exposed to more political ideologies.

 

[Vilthuril]

Glad to see there are a few people who care about this stuff here. I think it is important to try to reduce animal suffering as well as human suffering, that's why I don't consume animal products/wear them and for that reason I would not procreate. As another posted out, the whole right to die movement, or whatever you'd like to call it, seems a bit linked to the idea of sparing suffering in general, which I feel is important. No living thing ought to be forced into a tortuous existence with no possibility of escape or relief. Also, I would argue that animals are, by their very nature, always innocent whereas humans rarely are, if ever. Humans have a sense of morality and a conscience, but they choose to stifle it, whereas animals may act in a way that seems immoral when viewed through a sort of lens of humanity, but they don't understand the ramifications of their actions when they act on instinct/impulse. A human has the capacity to discern right from wrong but they often ignore it.

 

[creationisdeath]

I would like to get a discussion going about non-meat diets.

Please be respectful of others choices in this thread, I know this topic can cause tempers to flair.

Disclosure: I eat meat but feel very guilty about it, especially because the meat and dairy I do consume is probably sourced from factory farms.
And no matter how hard I try I cannot for the life of me not crave meat, seafood, cheese, etc.

Oops: I forgot to add vegan for all the above so please select the primary reason you became vegan.

I'm with you. I would prefer "premium" products from happy animals but I can't afford it, and I can't afford going vegetarian/vegan either. Cheap easy calories are generally not the result of love and peace.

 

[Misanthrope]

I am just an asshole and like steak and don't really care it is founded on an industry of mass death and torture on an unprecedented scale. You want better rights for animals and people we have to get away from a mentality of commodifying everything, ourselves included. I don't care that putting petrol in my car is founded on all the atrocity of the oil industry and foreign wars. Or that my love of gadgets is founded on air pollution that caused 350,000-400,000 premature deaths. Where horrific work conditions are the standard resulting in fainting and jumping off buildings is common enough to warrant nets.

Not because I don't have any empathy as such, but because I am in no position to reshape the entire fabric of current bat shit insane society that is so terminally absurd it looks fated to cannibalize itself via imaginary debt and other assorted idiocies. You cannot boycott anything into insolvency any more. We have toxic monopolies dominating the entire food industry, brutalising farmers into having to compete and that comes at the expense of any shred of decency they may have had towards animals or people.

I don't have any solutions any more, I am just going to enjoy steak and watch the world burn till I can't look at it any more. I respect those though who make these decisions for ethical reasons. Right up until you want to shame me for my choices. Then I shall simply shame back for everything you tacitly endorse that is also an atrocity.

Although there is perhaps a glimmer of hope amidst science when it comes to meat.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...ood-be-more-humane-and-less-polluting/9206542

But currently, science is up against profit-driven agendas, and political insanity that is putting us on course to becoming Venus. Rendering all these issues eventually moot. The Misanthrope in me is fine with that.

 

[Vilthuril]

I'm with you. I would prefer "premium" products from happy animals but I can't afford it, and I can't afford going vegetarian/vegan either. Cheap easy calories are generally not the result of love and peace.

There are a lot of people living in the third world and have vegetarian or mostly vegan diet. Something like rice and dried beans is not expensive and is calorie dense. I suppose for some it's a combination of both money and time/effort constraints that might dissuade them from following a vegan diet.

 

[Hennessy]

We should all go vegan!

Listen to this with an open mind:

 

[TheCrow]

I'be been a vegetarian for more than half my life. It's easy-peasy lemon breezy.

@oneofthesedays, thank you for everything you've posted here. You get it.

 

[Idorus]

Not true. I grew up on one of those free-range farms in the rural Deep South and my siblings and I all still became vegetarians. City folk simply have more opportunities when it comes to vegan/vegetarian cuisine and are exposed to more political ideologies.

Yup, city here and vegan for almost my entire life! I knew we must've had something significant like this in common my dear Mexican.... love ya.

 

[Sanguinius]

I think we are meat eaters by evolution, we certainly wouldn't have the teeth we have if we had evolved to be herbivores.

Yes, but: Is evolution necessarily right?