Method Tourniquet- convulsion worrys

[MeltingHeart]

Am having to go back to thinking about other methods following confiscatation of SN. I feel the setting up factor in partial or full-makes me feel far too fearful to proceed- I have been experimenting with a sort of very rudimnetry night-night type thing I made-but seem to feel effects much more easily with just a tourniquet-i.e no extra padding or things for the pressure points. Id most likely do it at night, I have a low bed-so no fear of falling out, but am I likely to still make a noise if I start convulsing? does anyone know how violent that might be-or how much i would be 'thrashing' about, do you think people makes any noises from their mouth whilst unconscious? as i do not want to attract attention (obvs) and do you think a low dose benzo - would help not only calm me to proceed but also might reduce convulsions?

sorry lotta questions but I know there are some knowledgale folk on here, so no harm is asking around.

 

[gingerplum]

No thrashing, no convulsions. Every video I've seen has some slight arm/hand movements (decerebrate posturing) and no unconscious gasping or noise.

I would absolutely pre-medicate with benzos.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I'm planning on using an actual combat tourniquet that won't slip even if I convulse. See if you could get one in your situation. Mine was very expensive, though, almost 40 € including Finland's high value tax.

I wouldn't take any meds. I'd be want to be extra sharp when setting up a tourniquet. YMMV. I have never taken any premedication and I was fine. Passing out happens very quickly, there's almost no time to panic. This coming from someone who has no experience with any type of sleep medication except melatonin.

Good luck and godspeed.

 

[MaybeSoon]

No thrashing, no convulsions. Every video I've seen has some slight arm/hand movements (decerebrate posturing) and no unconscious gasping or noise.

I would absolutely pre-medicate with benzos.

That's good to know, I had the same worrys about torniquet and night-night.

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

Am having to go back to thinking about other methods following confiscatation of SN. I feel the setting up factor in partial or full-makes me feel far too fearful to proceed- I have been experimenting with a sort of very rudimnetry night-night type thing I made-but seem to feel effects much more easily with just a tourniquet-i.e no extra padding or things for the pressure points. Id most likely do it at night, I have a low bed-so no fear of falling out, but am I likely to still make a noise if I start convulsing? does anyone know how violent that might be-or how much i would be 'thrashing' about, do you think people makes any noises from their mouth whilst unconscious? as i do not want to attract attention (obvs) and do you think a low dose benzo - would help not only calm me to proceed but also might reduce convulsions?

sorry lotta questions but I know there are some knowledgale folk on here, so no harm is asking around.

That's good to know, I had the same worrys about torniquet and night-night.

I work as a nurse in an intensive care unit & I have seen more suicides/attempts and seizures than I can remember (3 suicide attempts this week, 1 successful). Most of the convulsing I've seen with anoxic brain injuries from some type of OD or hanging aren't super severe. They are shaky/jerky, but nothing that would throw someone off of a bed. The more violent convulsions I've seen (loudly flailing and knocking into bed rails) seem to occur more with withdrawals. I have never seen any convulsions where anyone makes any noise from their mouth other than a gurgling sound, as they are usually foaming out of their mouth a little bit, but that noise is not something you would hear from another room.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I work as a nurse in an intensive care unit & I have seen more suicides/attempts and seizures than I can remember (3 suicide attempts this week, 1 successful). Most of the convulsing I've seen with anoxic brain injuries from some type of OD or hanging aren't super severe. They are shaky/jerky, but nothing that would throw someone off of a bed. The more violent convulsions I've seen (loudly flailing and knocking into bed rails) seem to occur more with withdrawals. I have never seen any convulsions where anyone makes any noise from their mouth other than a gurgling sound, as they are usually foaming out of their mouth a little bit, but that noise is not something you would hear from another room.

thks for info. am super surprised to hear that people from hanging attempt may still be convulsing even a little bit by the time they get to hospital! I guess do u find meds OD the most common? even had anyone come in having taken SN? An ICU must be a real tough place to work.

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

thks for info. am super surprised to hear that people from hanging attempt may still be convulsing even a little bit by the time they get to hospital! I guess do u find meds OD the most common? even had anyone come in having taken SN? An ICU must be a real tough place to work.

Yeah I had a patient this week that hung himself from a dog leash in his garage. He was only 22y old. (Also his 2nd attempt this week, first one was also by hanging too I believe). His family estimated he had been out there for 15-20mins & when they found him, it took them another 15-20 to cut him down. He was pulseless and blue, family called EMS, they got his heart pumping again, but his brain injury from lack of oxygen was just too advanced. He was convulsing nonstop (just kind of shaking), no brain waves per continuous EEG. He had no reflexes whatsoever, & was pretty much brain dead at that point but still had a heart beat & ventilator breathing for him, until the part of the brain that controls that started herniating. His family pulled the plug on life support and he passed very shortly after.
One thing I did notice other than the ligature marks on his neck, was the rope burn on both hands... like maybe SI kicking in? I don't know. He was also positive for alcohol, cocaine, & cannibis. I have never had a patient that had showed a sign that they used SN, but that would probably be explored more in an autopsy. We get a LOT of accidental & intentional OD deaths (so much fentanyl near my hospital it's crazy). This week's was 45mg clonazepam OD (also not his first attempt). A patient that took 6 clonazepams on purpose that jump off buildings. One guy stabbed his heart with a sharp kitchen knife.
It does get tough in there, you kind of have to have that level of numbness and sympathy.

 

[ron_g]

until the part of the brain that controls that started herniating.

Do you have an idea why that suddenly happened?
What might have been the outcome had this not happened?

Would you say that the convulsions in Jannes' suicide video are extraordinarily strong?

Swedish man uses webcam to broadcast suicide live on internet - Wikinews, the free news source

en.wikinews.org

I think the video is still on liveleak.

 

[puppy9]

No thrashing, no convulsions. Every video I've seen has some slight arm/hand movements (decerebrate posturing) and no unconscious gasping or noise.

I would absolutely pre-medicate with benzos.

How much benzo?
Thanks

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

Do you have an idea why that suddenly happened?
What might have been the outcome had this not happened?

Would you say that the convulsions in Jannes' suicide video are extraordinarily strong?

Swedish man uses webcam to broadcast suicide live on internet - Wikinews, the free news source

en.wikinews.org

I think the video is still on liveleak.

Your brain swells as a response to an anoxic brain injury, or lack of oxygen to your brain. The pressure from that can push the brain stem (part of your brain that regulates heart rate and breathing) through the opening at the base of your skull. Once that happens, that's pretty much the end. Had this not happened, the person could have lived for a long time on a ventilator (pretty much brain dead), but most families understand the poor prognosis and just "pull the plug" & let them go usually with a morphine drip or something. The younger people or normally healthy people can be so resilient sometimes. They can be down for a long time & be resuscitated (usually brain dead or near brain death).
I tried finding that video on LL but I couldn't.

 

[gingerplum]

How much benzo?
Thanks

How much ya got?

I'd say as much as you feel comfortable with that won't incapacitate your ability to follow thru with the next steps.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Yeah I had a patient this week that hung himself from a dog leash in his garage. He was only 22y old. (Also his 2nd attempt this week, first one was also by hanging too I believe). His family estimated he had been out there for 15-20mins & when they found him, it took them another 15-20 to cut him down. He was pulseless and blue, family called EMS, they got his heart pumping again, but his brain injury from lack of oxygen was just too advanced. He was convulsing nonstop (just kind of shaking), no brain waves per continuous EEG. He had no reflexes whatsoever, & was pretty much brain dead at that point but still had a heart beat & ventilator breathing for him, until the part of the brain that controls that started herniating. His family pulled the plug on life support and he passed very shortly after.
One thing I did notice other than the ligature marks on his neck, was the rope burn on both hands... like maybe SI kicking in? I don't know. He was also positive for alcohol, cocaine, & cannibis. I have never had a patient that had showed a sign that they used SN, but that would probably be explored more in an autopsy. We get a LOT of accidental & intentional OD deaths (so much fentanyl near my hospital it's crazy). This week's was 45mg clonazepam OD (also not his first attempt). A patient that took 6 clonazepams on purpose that jump off buildings. One guy stabbed his heart with a sharp kitchen knife.
It does get tough in there, you kind of have to have that level of numbness and sympathy.

45mg clonzapen sounds like such a small OD - surprised people think stuff like that would work. Anyways main thing I wanted to say is I hope u guys have access to very good counselling / therapy services - considering all you have to deal will. Respect to what u do

I'm planning on using an actual combat tourniquet that won't slip even if I convulse. See if you could get one in your situation. Mine was very expensive, though, almost 40 € including Finland's high value tax.

I wouldn't take any meds. I'd be want to be extra sharp when setting up a tourniquet. YMMV. I have never taken any premedication and I was fine. Passing out happens very quickly, there's almost no time to panic. This coming from someone who has no experience with any type of sleep medication except melatonin.

Good luck and godspeed.

What YMMV? So how come it didn't work if you passed out and yr thing doesn't slip? Sorry to be blunt -just trying to understand this method fully. Where u just practising - so had a hand on yr trnqt ?

Your brain swells as a response to an anoxic brain injury, or lack of oxygen to your brain. The pressure from that can push the brain stem (part of your brain that regulates heart rate and breathing) through the opening at the base of your skull. Once that happens, that's pretty much the end. Had this not happened, the person could have lived for a long time on a ventilator (pretty much brain dead), but most families understand the poor prognosis and just "pull the plug" & let them go usually with a morphine drip or something. The younger people or normally healthy people can be so resilient sometimes. They can be down for a long time & be resuscitated (usually brain dead or near brain death).
I tried finding that video on LL but I couldn't.

I'd be curious to know what bought you on here and whether the stress of the job has contributed to any of yr troubles . But I wouldn't want to pry unless it was things you didn't mind sharing. I guess it just give you a real insight into the inherent risks of attempts that go wrong

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

45mg clonzapen sounds like such a small OD - surprised people think stuff like that would work. Anyways main thing I wanted to say is I hope u guys have access to very good counselling / therapy services - considering all you have to deal will. Respect to what u do

I'd be curious to know what bought you on here and whether the stress of the job has contributed to any of yr troubles . But I wouldn't want to pry unless it was things you didn't mind sharing. I guess it just give you a real insight into the inherent risks of attempts that go wrong

Yeah the clonazepam guy was fine, little obtunded and heart rate dropped significantly for a while, but he left without any deficit. Unfortunately whatever counseling we need is on our own, & they give us really shitty insurance.

I actually found this site mentioned by someone on a different type of site. I read a lot of the posts and thought I could relate. I have struggled with depression, PTSD, & severe anxiety. At one point I was dependent on strong opiates after an injury, & I had horrible withdrawals coming off of it. I ended up being one of the small percentage that has post-acute withdrawal syndrome (where the withdrawal lasts for months). This was years ago and I still have side effects from it. A lot of nerve issues, severe anxiety. Especially during the withdrawals, I did not want to live. I prayed I wouldn't wake up. I couldn't wait to go to sleep so I wouldn't be consciously suffering throughout the day (and even then I had to take ambien due to severe insomnia & restless leg syndrome). I prayed the days would go by fast so maybe I would wake up one day past this storm. It did get a little better in time, but I still have days where I feel like I can't do it anymore. Like I can't take the stress and the depression. It was comforting knowing I had an outlet to talk to through this, because there is obviously no one in my daily life I could talk to like that.
Also, being what I do for a living, I see anywhere from 0 to 4 suicides/attempts/ODs per week, & I thought maybe I would be able to use my experiences and what I've seen to help someone else. ‍But sometimes I feel like my work is a nice escape from my regular life. I have become so numb to the problems that come through. People often tell me they don't know how I can see all this everyday, but to be honest, that's not what depresses me. Sometimes the family's reactions to their loved one dying, or a child in bad shape in the ER, that will get to me.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Yeah the clonazepam guy was fine, little obtunded and heart rate dropped significantly for a while, but he left without any deficit. Unfortunately whatever counseling we need is on our own, & they give us really shitty insurance.

I actually found this site mentioned by someone on a different type of site. I read a lot of the posts and thought I could relate. I have struggled with depression, PTSD, & severe anxiety. At one point I was dependent on strong opiates after an injury, & I had horrible withdrawals coming off of it. I ended up being one of the small percentage that has post-acute withdrawal syndrome (where the withdrawal lasts for months). This was years ago and I still have side effects from it. A lot of nerve issues, severe anxiety. Especially during the withdrawals, I did not want to live. I prayed I wouldn't wake up. I couldn't wait to go to sleep so I wouldn't be consciously suffering throughout the day (and even then I had to take ambien due to severe insomnia & restless leg syndrome). I prayed the days would go by fast so maybe I would wake up one day past this storm. It did get a little better in time, but I still have days where I feel like I can't do it anymore. Like I can't take the stress and the depression. It was comforting knowing I had an outlet to talk to through this, because there is obviously no one in my daily life I could talk to like that.
Also, being what I do for a living, I see anywhere from 0 to 4 suicides/attempts/ODs per week, & I thought maybe I would be able to use my experiences and what I've seen to help someone else. ‍But sometimes I feel like my work is a nice escape from my regular life. I have become so numb to the problems that come through. People often tell me they don't know how I can see all this everyday, but to be honest, that's not what depresses me. Sometimes the family's reactions to their loved one dying, or a child in bad shape in the ER, that will get to me.

I cant believe they dont give you counselling and good insurance that is awful-considering what you see and go through everyday-no wonder you have PTSD, it is good of you that you feel you can help others through yr own experiences. I cant begin to imagine how you cope with work -after all you have been through but its good if it gives you a sense of escape-and I guess possible purpose too-having a purpose and feeling you are contributing to soceity is a very important aspect of the human condition- that we all need-and you are definitely doing that! I sometimes wonder if medical professional (not nessarily yourself) may have a partiular 'anger' or maybe frustration or annoyance or such like to suicide attempts-as they spend all their times trying to save lives -and have to deal with these sometime physically healthy people trying to off themselves! it must be a strange dichotmy to deal with.

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

I cant believe they dont give you counselling and good insurance that is awful-considering what you see and go through everyday-no wonder you have PTSD, it is good of you that you feel you can help others through yr own experiences. I cant begin to imagine how you cope with work -after all you have been through but its good if it gives you a sense of escape-and I guess possible purpose too-having a purpose and feeling you are contributing to soceity is a very important aspect of the human condition- that we all need-and you are definitely doing that! I sometimes wonder if medical professional (not nessarily yourself) may have a partiular 'anger' or maybe frustration or annoyance or such like to suicide attempts-as they spend all their times trying to save lives -and have to deal with these sometime physically healthy people trying to off themselves! it must be a strange dichotmy to deal with.

Actually it's quite the opposite for healthcare workers (at least the ones I work with). We are more on the realistic side. Family always wants everything they can do to save the person, where we are more like 'would someone who didn't want to live want to be saved and live a more miserating quality of life?' And we really try to drive that point home with family, because a lot of times they don't understand that the person will never be the same. If someone would have a good prognosis, of course we do what we can to save them. Some consider it their rock bottom and have this epiphany that everything's going to get better. Some get discharged just to come back a few days later with another attempt. When crisis comes to evaluate, all they say is it was a mistake, they don't want to commit suicide & they are free to go. I would want to die before ever going to a mental health or jail or anything like that. I couldn't do it.
I feel like the most judgement comes from family & friends that aren't in health care. I had heard countless times from them about how it is "selfish" for someone to kill themselves, and every single time, I'm always in the opposite side trying to make them understand how people that commit suicide feel. I've been there, I have those feelings. I really don't think people will ever truly understand unless they had those feelings themselves (which I of course would never hope anyone has to go through). But it's true. I often think it's selfish for someone to expect someone else to live in misery all their lives.
I have several family members on my dad's side of the family that committed suicide (2 by hanging, 1 slit his wrists) so I often wonder if I'm more prone to mental illness due to a genetic factor.

 

[ron_g]

The younger people or normally healthy people can be so resilient sometimes. They can be down for a long time & be resuscitated (usually brain dead or near brain death).

Like how long at maximum?

I tried finding that video on LL but I couldn't.

I couldn't either. Maybe it was taken down. He did partial hanging, you could see how his face turned red and purple. His waist violently jerked forward and backward.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Just had to listen to how selfish I am all morning- and im trying to say well -exactly if i am such an awful person as you constantly say I am -then let me go-but I am personally attacked all the time (i mean as in my character and everything I say and do ) if I am alive -but told I am just trying to be a 'matyr' and that it is the most selfish thing to do if i kill myself- damned if i do -damned if i dont- this person hates me- so atually doesnt value my life-they just dont want to deal with any of the guilt that would come with my suicide-or others knowing that her and another person may well have contributed to me wanting to kill myself- so basically she wants me to be sectioned rather than allow me to do somewhere to ctb- i am being watched all the time. I have no mental health problems as such-just no longer wish to exist-which in this persons view-automatically means you are mentally ill- i disagree. I actually think they are slightly mentally ill for living the life they do and not wanting to ctb! but thats a whole different story

Like how long at maximum?


I couldn't either. Maybe it was taken down. He did partial hanging, you could see how his face turned red and purple. His waist violently jerked forward and backward.

ergh it was so horrible if its the one i saw-was he half sprawled along thee floor kind of thing? it went on for ages :( atleast he has found peace now.

 

[ron_g]

ergh it was so horrible if its the one i saw-was he half sprawled along thee floor kind of thing?

Oh yes

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

Like how long at maximum?

The most miraculous thing I've seen is a 19 yr old that OD'd on fentanyl/heroine. He took the drugs at 1130pm with his dad. He passed out, so at 1230 his dad left him to continue to party, came back at 7am to find his son cold & blue. Rescue squad took about an hour to revive him. When he got to us his body temperature was 86 degrees rectally. He actually walked out of the hospital, it took a long time to regain his baseline mental function, but he did recover.
A 42yr old woman OD'd on heroine at a party, when people realized it they all took off afraid they would get in trouble. Her mom found her 2 hours later. She was revived but she was pretty much brain dead by that time & was constantly seizing. She passed shortly after taking her off life support.
18yr old male hung himself in jail, last time was seen alive was like 45 mins prior, he was revived but could not walk or talk afterwards (other than moaning noises).
20yr old male hung himself, was hanging for at least 30 mins, revived but was brain dead and taken off life support. Also constant seizures.

 

[sovereignofsolitude]

Just had to listen to how selfish I am all morning- and im trying to say well -exactly if i am such an awful person as you constantly say I am -then let me go-but I am personally attacked all the time (i mean as in my character and everything I say and do ) if I am alive -but told I am just trying to be a 'matyr' and that it is the most selfish thing to do if i kill myself- damned if i do -damned if i dont- this person hates me- so atually doesnt value my life-they just dont want to deal with any of the guilt that would come with my suicide-or others knowing that her and another person may well have contributed to me wanting to kill myself- so basically she wants me to be sectioned rather than allow me to do somewhere to ctb- i am being watched all the time. I have no mental health problems as such-just no longer wish to exist-which in this persons view-automatically means you are mentally ill- i disagree. I actually think they are slightly mentally ill for living the life they do and not wanting to ctb! but thats a whole different story

I agree a lot of people think that it's automatically connected, that's why they'll send you to a psych ward for wanting to die. I do however struggle with anxiety, depression, & PTSD. I would do anything to not deal with that. I was abused by a doctor that I worked with and it just led to a domino effect of fucked up things in my life. I'm on anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, sleeping pills, and meds for nerve issues. I feel like my doses keep getting increased, but nothing helps. I would be lying if I said I didn't daydream of how I wanted to die. Sometimes I think I can get help, but I can never find a way that seems attainable for me. I don't know why, but I have this huge feeling I'm going to die young anyways (I'm 32 now) & it made me very unafraid of death. Accepting of it even. I used to be terrified of it. Now I feel like I'm too tired to care.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I agree a lot of people think that it's automatically connected, that's why they'll send you to a psych ward for wanting to die. I do however struggle with anxiety, depression, & PTSD. I would do anything to not deal with that. I was abused by a doctor that I worked with and it just led to a domino effect of fucked up things in my life. I'm on anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, sleeping pills, and meds for nerve issues. I feel like my doses keep getting increased, but nothing helps. I would be lying if I said I didn't daydream of how I wanted to die. Sometimes I think I can get help, but I can never find a way that seems attainable for me. I don't know why, but I have this huge feeling I'm going to die young anyways (I'm 32 now) & it made me very unafraid of death. Accepting of it even. I used to be terrified of it. Now I feel like I'm too tired to care.

god cant belive yr doctor-not sure if u mean sexually or physically in others ways, but i hope you felt able to report it-for yrself and others sake-they should be struck off! rather than all the meds & things-can u get therapy for the ptsd(sorry if that is obvious and u have tried-but there are many different types-and u need to find the right one-one you trust and feel totally comfortable with), yr still pretty young-and if you can hold onto that little bit that thinks you can get help-maybe u can-it mgt be the ptsd that is giving u the feeling u are going to die young (of course i am no professional so just throwing ideas around-but it can make you feel extreme thoughts. all those meds-its alot-thats gonna make u feel pretty physically and emotionally drained. I hope you have / can find someone you trust to talk to-irl-a forum is one thing-but face to face chat with the right people/ persons is important too. (prob annoy some people on here-who seem to think this is the only place you can talk openly-it certainly has its place and its uses but i dont think its everything for everyone-if you know what i mean)

 

[gingerplum]

Like how long at maximum?

Short answer: As long as 15 minutes.

Long answer: Now, as @sovereignofsolitude noted, people can often be resuscitated if they're found within that 15 min window. However, in cases like these, "resuscitated" means getting a pulse back; they can still be brain injured or brain dead. A lot of other factors come into play as well:

The precise timeline of anoxic brain injuries depends on a number of personal idiosyncrasies, including overall brain and cardiovascular health, as well as the level of blood oxygenation at the time of injury. Generally speaking, injuries begin at the one-minute mark, steadily worsening thereafter:

•Between 30-180 seconds of oxygen deprivation, you may lose consciousness.
•At the one-minute mark, brain cells begin dying.
•At three minutes, neurons suffer more extensive damage, and lasting brain damage becomes more likely.
•At five minutes, death becomes imminent.
•At 10 minutes, even if the brain remains alive, a coma and lasting brain damage are almost inevitable.
•At 15 minutes, survival becomes nearly impossible.

https://www.spinalcord.com/blog/whath3csiet-happens-after-a-lack-of-oxygen-to-the-brain

So, the amount of brain damage is directly related to the oxygen deprivation of the brain; the longer the brain is O2 deprived, the more severe & extensive the brain damage is.